New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)

[ThePolarBear]

Only in rare situations would you be able to both Cunning Action (Hide) and shoot necrotic bolts with the same cunning action.

About as rare as being able to hide in darkness. So, not that rare. Also, no need for total cover to hide to begin with so...

but two rounds will kill you about 1 time in 20 if I'm not goofing up my math guesstimate.

Automatic advantage on death saving throws...

[CNagy]

The Audience with Death doesn't actually seem that bad. "Unknown" is probably going to do some heavy lifting on the key details, because Death specifically has the knowledge of everyone who has died. "Is our employer going to cheat us?" Well, unless someone overheard those plans and then croaked, Death is just going to shrug at you. "Does the Bandit leader have an escape route?" Maybe you get an answer on that, which could inform your plans a bit. I think what we're all ignoring is the troll potential of this ability: ask yes/no details about your party members' pasts. How many adventurers still have parents alive and kicking, anyway?

[GlenSmash!]

With advantage on the save you are unlikely to roll a 1. 1 in 400. And halfling revived rogues...well they were born lucky I guess.

Reborn lucky

[Daithi]

Rune Knight: I like the Rune idea. However, I don't like needing INT to tap into the power of the Runes. It would have been better if they just went with CON as the DC modifier.

Swarmkeeper: This one is disgustingly creepy. If he were in my party, I'd probably have to kill him straight out of the gate. I'm just not a fan of the creepy crawly bugs and rats. On the other hand, I think he'd probably make a great villain.

The Revived: I kind of like this one. I'd still probably rather play one of the rogue sub-classes, but I can see where this could fit into certain campaigns.

None of them look particularly overpowered. On the flip side, I'm not sure I'd want to play any of them.

[Sigreid]

The Revived: I kind of like this one. I'd still probably rather play one of the rogue sub-classes, but I can see where this could fit into certain campaigns.

None of them look particularly overpowered. On the flip side, I'm not sure I'd want to play any of them.

I could have a lot of fun with RP on the Revived playing the character with a sort of multiple personality disorder; changing his personality and speech patterns based on which past life had the skills to accomplish his current task. That sort of thing.

[Spiritchaser]

I could have a lot of fun with RP on the Revived playing the character with a sort of multiple personality disorder; changing his personality and speech patterns based on which past life had the skills to accomplish his current task. That sort of thing.

You’ve just created an NPC for me... thanks!

[stoutstien]

A revived Warforged that lives on the souls on those who die near him?

A swarmkeeper firbolg?

A mad dwarf who channels the power of giants with runes scribed in the blood of certain creatures?

Lots of good RP material here even if I feel the subclasses should be on different classes.

[Sparky McDibben]

So I'm a liitle disappointed to see so much hate for the Revived Rogue. I think this looks great! It's a great Shadowfell-themed rogue. Bolts of the Grave allows you to capitalize on the rogue's already solid action economy while allowing you to be less party-dependent. And the concerns about the rogue cheesing their questions of death is a little overblown. Like someone else said, other classes can spam divination spells as rituals all day long with zero cost. So I love this rogue.

On the Ranger, I think there's some flavor options we're missing. What if your swarm were a dozen bluebirds...and now your ranger is a Disney princess who has her woodland friends helping her out. A lot depends on how you flavor the swarm. You could go the squicky Zerg route...but nothing actually states your swarm uses a statblock dependent on swarming. So you could definitely color this toward enchantment and whimsy and have your ranger be attended by spirit-pixies from the Feywild. Or you could have surrounded by the screaming ghosts of tormented souls the ranger is helping to move on. In return, the souls protect them.

Love the Rune Knight, full stop. Giants need more love.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I think what we're all ignoring is the troll potential of this ability: ask yes/no details about your party members' pasts. How many adventurers still have parents alive and kicking, anyway?

Oh it definitely crossed my mind, players with tragic backstories out to backstab the party can never resist having a murder written in to it. The real problem is getting this feature before they do it.

[Seclora]

Rune Knight seems fun, gives you a tank for your crafter party. Generally strikes me as a strong subclass, but not a terribly broken one. I might tone down the Haug Rune a little, make it one type of damage or only rounds equal to your Int modifier?

I enjoy the Swarmkeeper. Just, Fairy Bees, everywhere. The Storm of Minions ought to deal more damage, maybe 2d8 more. It seems pretty clear to me that Wisdom should be a priority for the archetype, since most of its abilities key off of it and it gets some decent spells. I like the idea of a beekeeper or Disney Princess ranger with an ever-present mob of protective animals. It seems like the sort of thing that would appeal to the kind of person who likes the ranger and never visits an optimization forum anyways, so making it a fairly good archetype is probably good in order to keep them competitive with the rest of the party.

I had to get a second opinion on the Revived Rogue. Some of those features seemed a little bizarre. I don't like letting them change their character around every time they nearly die, seems very dangerous in the hands of players who like screwing with their party, and confusing to new players. Not eating and sleeping seems unnecessary, and I don't really get how it works for the character. My wife thought it was cool though, so I dunno. Connect with the dead is flavorful, but not reliable enough to be exploitable, which is perfect really. I agree that Audience with Death is very exploitable, but not inherently broken. I'd give it a line to the effect that for every question after the first 5, you failed a number of death saves equal to the total questions that day, minus five(6 questions meaning 1 save, 7 meaning 2, 7 meaning automatic death) for asking another. After all, if you wanted to talk to Death that badly, you might as well come inside and have some tea while you talk. Ethereal Jaunt is wordy, but fine.

Bolts from the Grave could be a bit strong, if you rule that a held attack doesn't count as an attack on your turn, but as a DM, that's blatantly exploitative and I wouldn't allow it. Holding an attack means you have a clear intention to make an attack, and Bolts from the Grave is clearly intended to let you attack while you're doing other things. My interpretation is that Bolts from the Grave only works if you make no attempt to use your Sneak Attack on your turn, and then happens at the end of your Bonus Action Dash, Disengage, or Hide. So a better way to put it would be 'at the end of your turn, if you have used the Bonus Action granted by Cunning Action, and have not used or held an attack action, then...Grave Bolt' Ensuring that you are never too busy to deal damage.

[Mikaleus]

I’m not much of a rogue player. Looks cool and I know a few of my gaming buddies will be salivating at this new rogue.

The swarmkeeper reminds me of the 4e Swarm Druid. That said, I do like the looks of this even as a ranger subclass. Glad to see the additional spells. Agree the high level ability could deal with a small buff in damage. Overall I’d play one.

Then I see the Rune Knight.

Context, in 5e I’ve mostly played Paladins, Druids and clerics.
In video games I always liked summoners of elementals, and mixing might and magic.
Naturally paladin and cleric fit this latter play style of hybrid magic and martial capability.
I saw eldritch knight and it didn’t do it for me.
But rune knight? Giant lore? Runes? Magic? Fighter subclass ?!?!?

This is the first fighter I’ve ever wanted to play in 5e

[Damon_Tor]

The Revived Rogue has a place for someone who wants to MC rogue for things like Expertise and Cunning Action while not intending to make weapon attacks ever. A warlock, for example, who wants the added mobility and skills from the rogue can get full use out of the sneak attack damage even if he's built as a spellcaster with no interest in martial stuff at all.

The Rune Knight seems like the go-to grappler build: advantage on athletics checks and the ability to become large, plus you can give yourself an additional +2 to strength. Be a VHuman and take the Prodigy feat for athletics expertise. Bam, best grappler in the game.

[Rukelnikov]

The Audience with Death doesn't actually seem that bad. "Unknown" is probably going to do some heavy lifting on the key details, because Death specifically has the knowledge of everyone who has died. "Is our employer going to cheat us?" Well, unless someone overheard those plans and then croaked, Death is just going to shrug at you. "Does the Bandit leader have an escape route?" Maybe you get an answer on that, which could inform your plans a bit. I think what we're all ignoring is the troll potential of this ability: ask yes/no details about your party members' pasts. How many adventurers still have parents alive and kicking, anyway?

Think on a grander scale, how many mythical creatures are dead? How many gods are dead? The repository of knowledge is amazing.

Querying that repository is what becomes tricky since they are y/n questions, but how many theories could be proven right or wrong in an instant?

"Is there a plane besides the ones I know?" As long as something ever lived in another plane and died you get confirmation of more planes of existance.

In regards to world building this feature has amazing implications. Commune and Contact Other Plane leave the possibility that the answer to a particular question is unknown, but anything known to someone who died will be known.

[Jerrykhor]

Is it just me, or does it feel like Revived Rogue is what Undying warlock totally should have been?

[Mongobear]

Am I the only one who now wants to do Runekeeper/Hexblade for a WoW Death Knight/Lich King substitute?

[Jerrykhor]

Am I the only one who now wants to do Runekeeper/Hexblade for a WoW Death Knight/Lich King substitute?

No ****, i feel like rolling a Mountain dwarf rune knight wielding a battle axe and a battle hammer in each hand, use Giant Might while yelling "FOR KHAZ MODAN!!"

[Mongobear]

No ****, i feel like rolling a Mountain dwarf rune knight wielding a battle axe and a battle hammer in each hand, use Giant Might while yelling "FOR KHAZ MODAN!!"

Yeah, that was another idea. Pure Fighter, or maybe combo RK with Barbarian for the Mountain King.

Also, unless I misread it, does Giant's Might make TWFing good? Iirc it applies to all weapon attacks, not just once a round.

[CheddarChampion]

Also, unless I misread it, does Giant's Might make TWFing good? Iirc it applies to all weapon attacks, not just once a round.

Yeah it's good, once activated as a bonus action. Which takes away the TWF for that round.
Three of the runes also take bonus actions to activate.

[8wGremlin]

Fighter: rune knight 3 with Uvar rune. The rest wizard.

Have two items with Uvar rune. And make enemies have disadvantage on saving throws for 2 encounters. Then long rest.

Potent.

[Mongobear]

Yeah it's good, once activated as a bonus action. Which takes away the TWF for that round.
Three of the runes also take bonus actions to activate.

Meh, options are useful. It's just a flat-out better version of a TWFing Barbarian. The first turn, you use to get close and transform, then you just murder everything afterwards. Maybe skip the BA Runes, or only take a few, use them as needed, and fall back to an offhand swing if the situation doesn't need your utility.

RK/Ranger, RK/Hexblade or even just Magic Initiate, get in place with Giants Might ready, trigger Hex/Hunters Mark, then unload as many attacks as possible + an offhand if needed.

Takes 3 turns to get full effects, but good greif, that's a lotta damage.

[The_Snark]

Fighter: rune knight 3 with Uvar rune. The rest wizard.

Have two items with Uvar rune. And make enemies have disadvantage on saving throws for 2 encounters. Then long rest.

Potent.

Can't double up on runes, you have to inscribe a different rune on each object and you only get [runes known] objects.

[Fnissalot]

Bolts from the grave technically says that sneak attack has not been used. You use sneak attack after the attack roll hits so if your attack has missed, you can use grave bolts. Secondly, readying an action requires you spend your reaction to deal the damage in the end, which means you won't use your reaction to use uncanny dodge or evasion. So readying an action is sort of wasting your strength in the action economy.

The Revived is...interesting. I think I like it. It does invalidate the dual-wielding Rogue, though.
DW: Attack; miss; bonus action attack for a 2nd shot at sneak attack.
Revived: Attack; miss; Cunning action disengage; move away; ranged spell attack for sneak attack damage with a usually-non-resisted element

Bolts from the Grave will be, at best, 1d6 (shortsword) less damage than a normal off-hand attack, while being lower risk and less resisted. I would tune it down to d4s, I think.

You would shoot before you could move, so the attack would be at disadvantage. Alternatively, you use the disengage before you move into combat, shoot and get your sneak attack and suddenly maybe should not use your action to go in to melee since it might be better to just use your action to dodge then.

Hiding is equally weird as the cunning action for this as you will break being hidden directly by shooting it but you might get advantage on the shot then atleast.

Dash would only be useful, when you have moved and have less than 30ft left to an enemy you are planning to engage, or if you are trying to move away from an enemy within 30ft.

Also, on a ranged rogue, you still would need to be within 30ft to use the grave bolts which is closer than you would like it to be.

Neither of these uses feels super practical or easy to use. In most situations, crossbow expert seems just a better way to do the same thing, and dual-wielding will likely still be better in melee.

[8wGremlin]

Can't double up on runes, you have to inscribe a different rune on each object and you only get [runes known] objects.

Thanks for clarification. But even with just one minute of disadvantage on saves is potent.

[Sparky McDibben]

Ok, so my one gripe with Revived is that they effectively have permanent water breathing. There are a couple ways I can see around this:

Option 1: Ceteris paribus, they still need to breathe, but can hold their breath twice as long, and halve their food and drink requirements.

Option 2: Ceteris paribus, they gain immunity to poison damage and the poison condition, but their subtype changes to undead.

Thoughts?

[Pex]

The "fluttering birds" line for the swarmkeeper ranger makes me want to play a Disney princess character who is constantly surrounded by singing bluebirds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Jni_jQNfg

"Immediately after" using Bolts from the Grave can be interpreted to mean it does not synergize with Disengage. When you Disengage you haven't moved yet; it just allows you to move without provoking an opportunity attack. You couldn't disengage, move, then use Bolts from the Grave. You would have to use Bolts from the Grave immediately after you disengaged, so you're making a range attack in melee - disadvantage - but you can still move after without provoking.

[AdAstra]

Love the themes of all the subclasses.

I feel like people are really underselling the Rune Knight's power. The Hill and Storm runes are both really strong abilities. You get a slightly weaker Rage with fewer caveats, and among other things, the ability to Heighten people's spells as a reaction for a minute. Two quite strong (and incredibly versatile in the latter's case) abilities per short rest, plus Giant Might (kinda like the offensive component of Rage plus Large size) twice per long rest. Then you get poison resistance and one of the benefits of Alert, as well as lesser items like advantage on Arcana and some minor proficiencies. At level 3. I think that surpasses any of the current Fighter subclasses by a fairly large margin. And it's not like it tapers off either. At 7 you get an at-will reaction boost to AC based on intelligence (though interestingly it does not have text like Shield to indicate you would be able to know the roll first), which I would put as equal to or better than the Light Cleric's Improved Flare. The 10th level ability is not much, since it's mostly a small improvement to Giant Might and a 4th rune, but 15 and 18 both pretty much double the effectiveness of each of your core abilities.

Swarmkeeper is really fun-sounding, but honestly feels a little limited. Faerie Fire on a Ranger could be pretty potent when combined with the Gathered Swarm and Sharpshooter. Scuttling Eyes seems fun, though I don't see it as being worth a 3rd level spell slot in most cases. They probably could've lowered that cost and been fine.

Rogue's a weird case because it's one of the only instances where you can deal damage as a bonus action without any restrictions on what your action can be (ie spells or TWF).

New mechanics are always good. Things that operate off death saves, swappable skills, object-based powers, I like to see it.

[Sindal]

The swarmkeeper strikes me as people who want to be beastmasters but instead of having 'a thing', the animal are 'a force' instead.
It's a neat idea, at least

[Finback]

(and that hummingbird on your shoulder becomes a skeksis-like skeletal magpie which squawks "i feast on the souls of the weak!"

seed for the seed god
bells for the bell perch

[Finback]

I really WANT to like the swarmkeeper more, but it still feels a little off to me. Why fey? Why not an actual swarm? I guess, yes, an actual swarm of ants won't make you fly, but therein probably lies my disillusion with it. I want there to be something more like a swarm druid, someone who uses swarms as their summons/familiars, with appropriate features. Using them as your eyes and ears is totally in line with that, but it just feels like a concept in need of some stronger mechanics.

and all it does is remind I wish I had the time or better skill at designing my idea for a prestige class, the Arachnomancer - a druid build for drow.

[Makorel]

Really liking Rune Knight, which is kinda strange. With the heavy use of Intelligence and the pseudo crafting aspects in some ways it feels like they're stepping on the imminent Artificer's turf, and yet I can't be mad at it. Seeing the new Artificer UA made me fall in love with the idea of being so good at a craft that it actually becomes magic. Why would you need to cast spells for this sort of magic?

I also like that Intelligence becomes a useful, but not necessary secondary stat; the only other class that does this well is the Paladin. I like that this Fighter uses their Intelligence to gain combat advantages. I like that it remixes the "everyman" theme of the fighter in an interesting way. I like that it provides bonuses to skills and other out of combat benefits. It's also got genuine tanking capabilities with its 7th level feature and some of its rune abilities which have been few and far between for 5e "tanks" so far. WotC also learned from their past classes by giving this one more features in addition to simply upgrading old ones, and the upgrading features are also upgraded in more ways like number of uses and appropriate damage increases depending on level.

I give it a 10/10, it addresses like every complaint I've seen about martials except some may still decry it for dipping a foot into the magic pool to fix those issues. Now here's hoping WotC will use what they learned and go back to patch certain other Fighter subclasses to fix the same issues this subclass avoids.