Results 151 to 180 of 274
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2019-10-18, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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2019-10-18, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
I Am A: Neutral Good Half-Orc Fighter/Barbarian (2nd/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-16
Dexterity-16
Constitution-17
Intelligence-17
Wisdom-16
Charisma-13
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2019-10-18, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Seems like I'm always leaning towards Warforged for my race choice. So generically good. You can easily make a dex based ranged Warforged Envoy Rune Knight. Ild and Ular rune mesh really nicely with a sharpshooter archer while still leaving your reaction free for Defensive Runes.
I've been trying to think of synergy with the passive runes.
Haug - Resistant to Poison
Ild - Expertise with tools
Ise - Advantage on Animal Handling and Intimidation
Skye - Advantage on Slight of Hand and Deception
Stein - Advantage on Insight + Darkvision
Uvar - Advantage on Arcana + Psuedo-Alert
Some ideas:
- Advantage + Expertise to steal or lie is nice with only a single level dip in Rogue
- Advantage + Expertise in Arcana is nice for a single dip into Knowledge Cleric
- Ghostwise Halfling Rogue 1 Gives Expertise + Advantage on Insight could discern lies easily and then telepathically inform everyone else. Fixes halfling lack of darkvision too.
- Expertise in all tools you have proficiency with - Niche uses - Poisoner build, poor man's Rogue, ?
- Can't think of a real boon for Ise rune. Animal taming Druid/Ranger/Nature Cleric? Bard with a travelling animal circus?
Trying to theorycraft a melee build with some synergy. So far most of my ideas end up being about the same as using a Samurai. Basically easy ways to generate advantage. GWM is OK but Rune Knight is pretty bonus action heavy so you may end up losing out on your bonus action GWM strike.
One idea can come up with is a Half-Orc with a Greataxe. Use Skye rune to try and incapacitate someone before your turn. Giant Might and then rush in to auto-crit for 3d12 + 2d6 + Str damage. Only works for one attack though as the guy wakes up. Not super strong but usable 1/SR.
Reverse crit fishing with a Reckless Barbarian dip is another interesting option with the Skye rune. Go reckless and hope enemies roll a crit against you - Redirect that crit to an ally of theirs. Any other ways to force a crit on yourself while still keeping your reaction?Last edited by Wildarm; 2019-10-18 at 11:55 AM.
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2019-10-18, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Really want to love the rune knight and ALMOST do, but the power creep... Mostly take issue with accessing large size when they've tried so hard to avoid that kind of thing. And a little iffy about the 1d6 to dmg thing... Otherwise really love it tho.
Swarm... Hilarious and dumb. If it were druid I'd totally be on board. Gimme that swarm of squirrels. But ranger? So weird.
And the rogue just ugh. Power creep. Level dip creep. And having died before /has past lives is a subclass of something? Huh? Especially rogue rather than warlock pact? No thanks. Love all the effort on new subclasses and lots of releases. Some are fantastic. Others are doozies. Say no to power creep!
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2019-10-18, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
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2019-10-18, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
I've been trying to re-work the revived subclass into a Warlock class. Ethereal Jaunt can just be cast misty step at will. Need to replace Bolts of the Grave with something else though. On a warlock, perhaps it gives the Agonizing Blast Invocation for free but changes the damage type of your EB to Necrotic damage. I think that would be reasonably balanced. Free up an invocation essentially at level 3 with a small tradeoff in damage type.
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2019-10-18, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
At 3rd level the Rune Knight has:
- One tool and one language proficiency.
- Advantage on Intelligence (Arcana) checks.
- Immunity to surprise.
- Advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and resistance against poison damage.
- Resistance to all physical damage for a minute once per short rest.
- Ability to impose disadvantage on saving throws and attack rolls as a reaction for a whole minute once per short rest.
- Advantage on all strength checks and +1d6 damage for a minute twice per long rest.
If this isn't power creep, I don't what it is. It's way stronger than any other Fighter subclass
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2019-10-18, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
It doesn't have all those things, you get 2 runes at lvl 3 not all of them.
Still its very powerful at lvl 3 that's why I said power dip, but compare it at lvl 7 vs an EK, who by that poin is making a GFB attack and a regular attack every turn without spending any resource, and has shield and AE, or at 13th when EK is upcasting Shadow Blade to be a 3d8 damage one handed weapon that grants advantage when in dim light or darkness, I don't think the power creep is there tbh.Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2019-10-18 at 12:18 PM.
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2019-10-18, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
It's stronger than the EK at level 3, for sure. There's a strong argument that its overpowered at that level.
But longterm? The EK with a shadow blade has advantage on all attacks, deals 2d8 damage with the weapon, and can boost AC to 26. In reality the Rune Knight isn't getting all of the above bonuses.
I see it as stronger in standard play, and stronger at lower level, but weaker at high levels.Make Martials CoolAgain.
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2019-10-18, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
You can’t get shadow blade or mirror image until level 8, and you can’t have both until level 12. Blur takes concentration and thus is incompatible with shadow blade. Both blur and mirror image take an action to cast, giving up valuable attacks.
All the way back at level 3 Giant Might is giving you 1d6, which is nearly as much as the 1d8 shadow blade gives you over a longsword, while being compatible with all weapons, including ranged, and not being concentration. Both have situational benefits, but shadow blade isn’t enough better than Giant Might to compensate for all the other things Rune Knight gets, unless you’re constantly fighting in dim light and darkness.
I have no idea why you would consider Mage Armor to be useful on an Eldritch Knight. It gives you +1 AC over studded leather for a 1st level slot, and you might need to cast it twice if you have encounters spaced far enough apart. That’s nothing. All the classes that gain any meaningful benefit from MA can use it themselves, so in most cases it’s not a useful support spell either.
As for wizard multiclasses, the Rune Knight can gain just as much if not more, since they already use Int. If you go 5/5, the eldritch knight gains one 3rd level spell slot, or another 4th level slot (but no 4th level spells) if they get 6 fighter levels. The Rune Knight, on the other hand, can get almost all of the EK’s tricks at this point, including shield, shadow blade, and mirror image from wizard 3, which stack with Giant Might and the Hill Rune.
The fact that your EK builds aren’t even the best that an EK can do doesn’t help. If you multiclass out of EK before 7, it’s one of the worst subclasses for everything but the wizard, and then only because the other subclasses contribute very little to wizards at all, except, ironically, Rune Knight, which gives it a lot. If you’re looking for melee damage, a rogue multiclass, either arcane trickster or swashbuckler, probably gets you more than haste in practice.
Basically, Rune Knight 5/ Abjurer 3 is a better Eldritch Knight than an Eldritch Knight 8.Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-10-18 at 12:32 PM.
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2019-10-18, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
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2019-10-18, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Yes, you have:
Bonus Proficiencies = one tool and one language proficiency.
Rune 1: Uvar (Storm Rune) = advantage on Intelligence (Arcana) checks, and you can't be surprised as long as you are not incapacitated. Invoke to impose disadvantage on saving throws and attack rolls as a reaction for a whole minute once per short rest.
Rune 2: Haug (Hill Rune) = Advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and resistance against poison damage. Resistance to all physical damage for a minute once per short rest.
Giant Might = Advantage on all strength checks and +1d6 damage for a minute twice per long rest.
Two or three times a day, I grant you the advantage but 2d8 is still lower than 3d6 if the giant Rune Knight is using a greatsword.
I'll argue the Rune Knight is even bulkier, you get resistance to all physical damage around twice or three times a day, and the storm rune can be used to grant disadvante on an attack roll every round. Defensive Runes can protect allies and can be used an unlimited number of times. Shield is +5 AC for 4 rounds max.
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2019-10-18, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
My Homebrew Gnoll PC Race:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-Gnoll-(PEACH)
My Homebrew Blackguard Class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ersion-(PEACH)
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2019-10-18, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
I tend to think about lower level building before I think about higher level, since a level 20 build will only see play for a tiny portion of the game, if at all. Anything beyond level 10 is usually wishful thinking. But no matter, it changes little. A Rune Knight 7/ Abjurer 13 would be a better caster and not much worse at fighting, with better support skills, and perhaps most important, concentration-free buffs (as well as the fire rune’s solid debuff). People are just ignoring this despite how strong it is. You can stack these with spells (like shadow blade), and you can’t lose them to errant attacks or spells.
A RK 15/ Divine Soul 5 would also do some work, with a little metamagic, two rune uses per short rest, five runes (so ten total “rune slots”), a buffed Giant Might, shield, mirror image, shadow blade (with up to 3d8), spirit guardians (if you have the Cha), and haste. Abjurer also works well for this one.
Also noted again: Giant Might can be used with shadow blade, or sharpshooter, or GWM, or even a monk’s flurry of blows if you decided to do that.Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-10-18 at 12:54 PM.
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2019-10-18, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Here.
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
That's a level 20 build. If we go that far, then a Rune Knight 11/Wizard 9 also gets level 5 slots, which gives shadow blade 4d8 damage. This is on top of another 1d8 from giant form and potentially the +STR rune. EK doesn't really add that much being multiclassed to wizard, unfortunately.
Alternatively, a Rune Knight 20 can use PAM, GWM, and a magic weapon alongside the Rune/Giant buffs to get even more damage. Shadow Blade's biggest weakness is that it plays poorly with magic weapons.
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2019-10-18, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Thats definitely a better caster, mainly because it has more wizard levels than fighter, so the weight of the subclass is less important. But its also a different type of character, it only does 2 attacks per turn, and will be played more as a support/control caster than as frontliner dpr. Damage wise, Rune Knight is not above EK, defensive wise, throught the day, Rune knight may be a bit above, but not that much tbh.
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2019-10-18, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Note the RK 15/ Sorc or Wiz 5 build. Get GWM. Activate either Giant Might or Storm/Hill Rune, or quicken Haste, or cast shadow blade. Action Surge, as soon as you hit, use Fire Rune (if using storm rune impose disadvantage). Use fire rune again on next hit if the first fails. Rely on GWM/SS damage and Giant Might if you have it.
For that matter, Rune Knight 20 is plenty strong.Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-10-18 at 01:02 PM.
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2019-10-18, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Only once a day vs the EK that can do it 3 times. Also it takes 2 turn to do those things for a RK, since both SB and Giant Might are BA.
Do the same with an EK, don't use SB, and instead use Haste or Greater Invisibility, the DPR increase of advantage to every attack is above 1d8 damage to every attack against most ACs, and an extra attack is likely to yield more damage than 1d8 to every attack under those terms (GWM + Magic weaponry)
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2019-10-18, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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2019-10-18, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-10-18 at 01:10 PM.
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2019-10-18, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
- Location
- Vinland
- Gender
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Looking at the Rune Knight I'm starting to see a split in the features. The runes on items and then the Giant's might (Great Stature, Blessing of the all-Father)
The latter all seem to fit better to me as modifiers for Rage. Like on a Runescarred Berserker primal path for the Barbarian.
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2019-10-18, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- The Old West
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
I don't think the Giant stuff should necessarily be a Barbarian subclass over fighter, but it should probably be its own thing separate from Rune stuff. Their limited connection is that Stone Giants do runic magic. That's it. There's nothing about runes inherently that requires a character be a giant.
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2019-10-18, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
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2019-10-18, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Here.
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Once a day on the 4d8+1d8. Another time a day on the 3d8+1d8. That doesn't include the effects of the Ild rune that is a free activation.
Taking two turns to do something is okay when you can cast shadow blade first.
A level 20 EK, both using GWM, right? Assuming a 50% chance to hit post-GWM, and also accounting for the Ise rune, the difference in DPR is ~6 for five attacks between greater invis and runes, which is more than made up by the additional 1d8 you can give to a friend for rune knight. If you don't get a free buffing round, Rune Knight pulls even further ahead.Last edited by Felyndiira; 2019-10-18 at 01:32 PM.
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2019-10-18, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
On the balance of the Rune Knight- would it help if the tool/language proficiencies and the Giant's Might were made into a rune instead, thus restricted in the exact same way as the other runes?
It would allow some design space to add a bit of scaling to the other existing runes, too, and cleans things up a bit.
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2019-10-18, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
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2019-10-18, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Lemme see...
Both have 20 Str, GWM, PAM, and lets say a +3 Weapon, right?
RK 1st Turn:
BA: Ise Rune
Action: Attack
2nd Turn:
BA Giant's Might
Action: Attack
AS: Attack
3rd Turn:
Action: Attack
AS: Attack
BA: Attack
4th Turn and above:
Action: Attack
BA: Attack
EK 1st Turn:
Action: GI
AS: Attack
BA: Attack (Improved War Magic)
2nd Turn:
Action: Attack
AS: Attack
BA: Attack
3rd Turn and above:
Action: Attack
BA: Attack
Is that right?
Well lets see what Ludic's DPR calculator has to say about this:
+9 to hit, 1d10+18 damage for both, advantage for the EK on all attacks, +2 Str for the RK on all attacks, +1d8 extra damage for the RK on turns 2 and above.
You said 50% chance to hit, so that would be against an AC 20. (it will be 55% chance to hit for RK due to 22 STR)
RK 1st turn = 55 Damage (4 attacks, +10/1d10+19, no BA attack)
RK 2nd round = 131 Damage (8 attacks, +10/1d10+1d8+19, no BA attack)
RK 3rd round = 146 Damage (8 attacks, +10/1d10+1d8+19, PAM/GWM Attack)
RK 4th and above = 73 (4 attacks, +10/1d10+1d8+19, PAM/GWM Attack)
EK 1st turn = 90 Damage (4+1 attacks, +9/1d10+18)
EK 2nd turn = 151 Damage (8 attacks, +9/1d10+18, PAM/GWM Attack)
EK 3rd turn and above = 83 Damage (4 attacks, +9/1d10+18, PAM/GWM Attack)
1st Turn = EK dealt 35 more damage
2nd Turn = EK dealt 20 more damage (55 favor EK)
3rd Turn = RK dealt 63 more damage (8 favor RK)
4th and above = EK deals 10 more damage (2+10/turn favor EK)
So, the RK comes out ahead if the fight lasts exactly 3 turns, and the EK comes ahead for any other number. This doesn't really scream OP to me, they are comparable, and that's disregarding stuff like, by this lvl, none of those character should have STR 20 to begin with, if you can have a +3 weapon you can have a STR 25 belt, thus Ild rune has already become obsolete by this point. Or that AC 20 is rather low for 20s, and EK pulls even further ahead if you use 25.
The allied party member Giants Might DPR will depend heavily on party composition, if you have another fighter it will be very good, if you have a rogue a cleric and a wizard (the archetypal party), its only 1d8 more to damage (and the rogue may not want to become a giant).
So no, the RK is not OP in any way shape or form from tier 3 onwards. Its very front loaded? Yes we all say that.Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2019-10-18 at 02:37 PM.
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2019-10-18, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
I suspect Runic Knight will, in play, turn out to be less potent than imagined, though not by much. Just as Fighter's other subclasses are actually a bit better in play than they initially seem.
The Rogue subclass is...thematically bad. Not as a subclass, but as a rogue subclass. What about being a rogue says "a significant fraction of this class are reincarnates who derive magical powers from their past lives?" With the exception of the daily shifting proficiency, the subclass doesn't feel like it reinforces Rogueness. Even the tie-in to Sneak Attack replaces its use when you indulge it.
This would probably work better as a Bard subclass: tie in to themes of esoteric and ancient knowledge, seeking one's past, and having magic related to experience and lore/story.
A rogue subclass about "return to life" would be better done as an infiltration/exfiltration expert, with the theme that you've literally escaped from the afterlife and stolen your life back. ...heck, with minimal tweaks, that could work with what's here, so maybe I'll jsut recommend that fluff change.
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2019-10-18, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
Re: New Unearthed Arcana: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue (October 17th)
Why so much focus on level 20? Most people never reach this level. Besides, an EK can cast Greater Invisibility once (and some enemies are immune to it), and Haste three times, while each rune can be used 2/rest and damage isn't everything: storm rune is arguably the strongest and it doesn't deal any direct damage.
Look at stone rune: it's a save-or-suck effect with only one save. It's a single target hypnotic pattern, and you can get this at 3rd level.
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2019-10-18, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2019