Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

[b_jonas]

Announcing the winners of Return round 7. This may still change if you verify the game results and find errors.

• Gold: Gauntlet
Balanced: Quiddle
Different approaches, same result: Ninjaman, Tom the Mime
Meddling cards this round only: ben-zayb

Ban list. Can also change if you find an error.

Spoiler: Ban list: Round 6

Show

Land: Blackcleave Cliffs; City of Traitors; Mishra's Workshop; Strip Mine

Artifact/Colourless: Black Lotus; Blacker Lotus; Dispatch Dispensary; Karn, the Great Creator; Lion's Eye Diamond; Liquimetal Coating; Lodestone Golem; Lupine Prototype; Mana Crypt; Mirrored Lotus; Mox Pearl; Sol Ring; The Rack; Time Vault; Voltaic Key.

White: Chancellor of the Annex; Serra Ascendant; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben; The Cheese Stands Alone.

Blue: Jace, Wielder of Mysteries; Laboratory Maniac; Leyline of Anticipation.

Black: Blackmail; Spike, Tournament Grinder; Street Wraith.

Green: Crashing Footfalls; Collector Ouphe.

Red: Wrench-Rigger.

Gold: Empty.

Please submit decks for Return round 8 to me in forum private message. Please mention that they're for round 8. I hope I'll get more submissions in this round.

[b_jonas]

I will freeze the decks for round 8 on Thursday evening, specifically 2019-12-05 21:00 UTC, and will reveal them shortly after that. You have three days. Please submit your decks before that deadline.

Tom the Mime: if you haven't already, please start to think what the special rule for round 10 will be.

[Tom the Mime]

Given I'm playing, I don't want to skew things by picking one I explicitly have an idea for. I did put a list of possible ideas in the opening post so you could always just pick one you like from that and use it.

[b_jonas]

Well, some of you players who are judging on this thread will have to agree on a special rule. It won't be too skewed if multiple players agree on it. I don't like the idea of frequent special rounds, so I won't decide on a rule, then either round 10 and 15 will not be special, or it will be special in some silly way (eg. decks have to include at least one green card; decks have to include at least one nonland card with flavor text; creatures with more than one creature type can't be used).

[Ninjaman]

Special round ideas:

Each player has Unexpected Potential.

Each player has Hymn of the Wilds.

Each player has Double Stroke.

Each player has Brago's Favor.

Emblem with Trinisphere text in play.

Emblem with Mana Flare text in play.

Emblem with Wheel of Sun and Moon text in play.

Each player gets a basic land of their choosing on their starting hand.

Creature's can't attack.

No creatures.

Each player has a 60 card deck of wastes.

Each player has a 60 card deck of wastes. They lose if they would draw a card with no cards in their library.

Each player must discard one of their cards before the first turn.

Two card deck, you can play a basic from outside the game each turn.

[Fable Wright]

I'm interested in Wheel of Sun and Moon. How do things change when resources can constantly refresh?

[Bucky]

The only one I really want to see is "players start at 6 life".

[Ninjaman]

The only one I really want to see is "players start at 6 life".

Why 6? 5 seems more obvious.

[Tom the Mime]

I'll repost some of the early suggestions here:

• Planeshift - select a plane card to start on for your turn and all rolls go against the owner of the plane
• Vanguard Avatar - vanguard avatars are legal (may have an extra slot for it, might not)
• Planeswalker - You can have 4 cards but one has to be a planeswalker
• Two-headed giant - this one would get crazy
• Limited omniscience - Each player begins with X Treasure tokens in play
• Landfall - basic lands all have some sort of landfall ability
• Conspiracy theory - Each player starts with a conspiracy of their choice in the command zone
• Like a flash - all spells players cast have flash

Special round ideas:

Each player has Unexpected Potential.

Each player has Hymn of the Wilds.

Each player has Double Stroke.

Each player has Brago's Favor.

Emblem with Trinisphere text in play.

Emblem with Mana Flare text in play.

Emblem with Wheel of Sun and Moon text in play.

Each player gets a basic land of their choosing on their starting hand.

Creature's can't attack.

No creatures.

Each player has a 60 card deck of wastes.

Each player has a 60 card deck of wastes. They lose if they would draw a card with no cards in their library.

Each player must discard one of their cards before the first turn.

Two card deck, you can play a basic from outside the game each turn.

• Unexpected potential - I can't see it really being used much given we have the dual lands already so you need to use storage lands for this to even matter.
• Hymn of the wilds - no instants and sorceries but slightly bigger creatures seems okay but a bit boring in that it restricts rather than given more options and any neat ideas are just ones that wouldn't hold up against sorceries.
• Double Stroke - could be nifty, likely to be dominated by discard and anti discard effects. Multimodal spells could be useful
• Brago's Favor - seems kinda dull. I guess it enables some spells quicker that would just be out of range and make the iguana playable

If we went for this sort of path, I think I'd prefer it as each player having a 3 card deck plus a conspiracy/hidden agenda of their choice

• Trinisphere - land destruction would have to be flat out banned as otherwise running 2 destruction lands locks out everything but bazaar of baghdad grave recursion decks.
• Mana Flare - quicker 2-drops with an extra slot. Might see the iguana be playable again as above
• Wheel of Sun and Moon - potentially are more interesting one but depends if people find exile effects instead
• Extra basic land - probably similar in effect to mana flare but with some intricacies allowing 2 multicoloured mana with a mox T1 with 2 cards remaining
• Creatures can't attack - bigger change, could be fun. A couple of decks stand out but it should still have variety
• No creatures - see above but tokens can attack and you lose the creature effects
• Waste deck - had a lot of variety last time but I don't particularly want to revisit one from the old thread this early
• T1 discard - why? Why would anyone choose anything other than the one that comes back from the graveyard or one that shuffles itself back into your library

Also, starting life totals of any less than 11 will probably need to ban Chancellor of the Dross.

[Ninjaman]

I'll repost some of the early suggestions here:
Planeshift - select a plane card to start on for your turn and all rolls go against the owner of the plane

This seems fun, but might be too weird.

Vanguard Avatar - vanguard avatars are legal (may have an extra slot for it, might not)

A lot of the vanguard avatars are just really powerful in this, some were banned very early the first time around.

Planeswalker - You can have 4 cards but one has to be a planeswalker

Sounds fun. We have seen a planeswalker already.

Two-headed giant - this one would get crazy

I'm not sure I even want to try and think about how this would work.

Limited omniscience - Each player begins with X Treasure tokens in play

What values do you suggest for X?

Landfall - basic lands all have some sort of landfall ability

What effects would that be?

Like a flash - all spells players cast have flash

I'm not sure how much this would change given that people still have to play lands first.

Unexpected potential - I can't see it really being used much given we have the dual lands already so you need to use storage lands for this to even matter.

Ancient Tomb is still legal.

Brago's Favor - seems kinda dull. I guess it enables some spells quicker that would just be out of range and make the iguana playable

It might make Iguana playable, but as long as it doesn't enable Iguana Inquiry I think that's fine.

If we went for this sort of path, I think I'd prefer it as each player having a 3 card deck plus a conspiracy/hidden agenda of their choice

How many are worth picking over power play though?

T1 discard - why? Why would anyone choose anything other than the one that comes back from the graveyard or one that shuffles itself back into your library

The idea is that you can play graveyard synergy cards without needing a card to set them up. Of course no one would choose to just play effectively a two card deck.

Also, starting life totals of any less than 11 will probably need to ban Chancellor of the Dross.

Yep, that was my thought as well. At 5 or six life the format would just be 3 chancellor decks that could win against 1 chancellor decks, 1 chancellor decks that win against 2 chancellor decks, and the two chancellor decks win against 3 chancellor decks.


Others:

Blood Moon in play

Back to Basics on play

Sphere of Resistance i play

Collective Blessing in play

Each player starts with X saprolings in play

[Gauntlet]

How many are worth picking over power play though?

Brago's Favor and Double Stroke would probably do something. I could see Immediate Action and Sovereign's Realm doing something possibly as well.

Yep, that was my thought as well. At 5 or six life the format would just be 3 chancellor decks that could win against 1 chancellor decks, 1 chancellor decks that win against 2 chancellor decks, and the two chancellor decks win against 3 chancellor decks.

Providence decks would likely show up as well.

[Tom the Mime]

This seems fun, but might be too weird.
A lot of the vanguard avatars are just really powerful in this, some were banned very early the first time around.

True, that one probably wouldn't work well.

What values do you suggest for X?

Probably 4-6.

What effects would that be?

Minor burn, bounce, 1/1 tokens, additional mana, the sort of stuff you might expect on a 1 cmc card of that colour

I'm not sure how much this would change given that people still have to play lands first.

This was more an idea if more moxand the spirit guides but some are.

Ancient Tomb is still legal. It might make Iguana playable, but as long as it doesn't enable Iguana Inquiry I think that's fine.

My general thoughts with these ones was basically that getting a 2 drop with one card remaining as a special round doesn't feel that special.

How many are worth picking over power play though?

Power play shines with T1 discard and there are decks that can deal with that without much issue and some of the conspiracies can help them along. If I thought power play would dominate the meta, I'd be very tempted to play gemstone caverns for the fun of it.

The idea is that you can play graveyard synergy cards without needing a card to set them up. Of course no one would choose to just play effectively a two card deck.

I get that but part of the reason I'm not a fan is it doesn't seem to encourage deck diversity as there's a couple of options that just work better and don't need any additional setup. I don't know how others feel but the main draw for special rounds for me is getting a variety of different decks, different to both each other and the decks in normal rounds. Which is why I favoured the open ended ones with big changes like planes, no attacking and an additional card with restrictions because they give a big design space without too much overlap with normal rounds.

[Fable Wright]

The only one I really want to see is "players start at 6 life".

I see you are a fan of 2x Chancellor of the Dross + Soul Spike mirror matches. Given Active Player/Non-Active Player, whoever goes second wins, unless Soul Spike forces a draw, so there's just... no reason to not decide the game at the beginning of the first upkeep?

I guess Providence + 2 other cards as the Non-Active Player does win that one specific matchup 50% of the time while the Dross + Soul Spikes draw/draw. So you could go off-meta by trying to go W/L instead of DD for 3 points instead of 2?

But no, that sounds like the most miserable round. Let's not. Please.

EDIT: Missed this when glossing over thread.

Yep, that was my thought as well. At 5 or six life the format would just be 3 chancellor decks that could win against 1 chancellor decks, 1 chancellor decks that win against 2 chancellor decks, and the two chancellor decks win against 3 chancellor decks.

Effects don't resolve simultaneously, so the 1-chancellor decks still auto-lose against 2 chancellor decks if they're the active player. And if they're the non-active player, they just lose to Soul Spike before they can do anything with their 3 life.

[b_jonas]

Revealing the decks for Return of the Magic: the Gathering three blind round 8.

Gauntlet: Ancient Tomb, Isochron Scepter, Evil Boros Charm.
Bucky: Ghost Quarter, Mishra's Factory , Geier Reach Sanitarium.
Fable Wright: Rushwood Grove, Channel, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
Tom the Mime: Selesnya Sanctuary, Treetop Village, Loxodon Smiter.
Ninjaman: Celestial Colonnade, Calciform Pools, Ghost Quarter.

Evil Boros Charm is another un-card from the Mystery Boosters convention edition.

• name: Evil Boros Charm
  mana cost: (B/R)(W/B)
  type: Instant
  Choose one—
  • Evil Boros Charm deals 2 damage to any target and you gain 2 life.
  • Unblocked attacking creatures get +1/+0 until end of turn.
  • Create a 1/1 colorless Spirit creature token with lifelink and haste

Empty table for results:

	G	B	FW	TM	N
Gauntlet	.	??	??	??	??	?	Isochron EvilBoros
Bucky	??	.	??	??	??	?	GeierReach MiFactory
Fable Wright	??	??	.	??	??	?	UlamogGyre
Tom the Mime	??	??	??	.	??	?	LoxodonSmiter TreetopV
Ninjaman	??	??	??	??	.	?	Colonnade

[Ninjaman]

So every single deck can't win through a Ghost Quarter?

Bucky and my matches:

Gauntlet, Tom and Fable all can't win thought their land getting Ghost Quartered, so that's WW.

For our match it's DD, as we can Ghost Quarter each other's lands. Bucky can activate Geier Reach on the play before my third land, but I can play my Ghost Quarter before that and destroy his factory, even in response to Geier Reach activation if he plays it as his third land. If he trades Ghost Quarter for Ghost Quarter then he doesn't have mana to activate Geier Reach, and I can animate the Colonade before I take lethal.

[b_jonas]

Writing the results from Ninjaman's post to the table:

	G	B	FW	TM	N
Gauntlet	.	LL	??	??	LL	?	relies on land
Bucky	WW	.	WW	WW	DD	20	GhostQuarter
Fable Wright	??	LL	.	??	LL	?	relies on land
Tom the Mime	??	LL	??	.	LL	?	relies on land
Ninjaman	WW	DD	WW	WW	.	20	GhostQuarter

If that's correct, then Gauntlet, Fable Wright and Tom the Mime score at most 12 points each; while Bucky and Ninjaman tie first place with 20 points.

[Bucky]

Ulamog > not-Ghost Quarter by imitating Ghost Quarter a turn late, either with the cast trigger or Annihilator

[Tom the Mime]

And for the final result, I think I LL to Gauntlet because I can't swing with a 4/4 and 3/3 until turn 5 and he can build up enough blockers to take one out if I swing and I can't break through with damage before he books then back up.