OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

[Jasdoif]

Where was that mentioned?

Here.

In the intro to Don't Split the Party (Book 4) I believe the Giant says that at the end of this book the story will be more than half way through, plot wise. The fact that this is the first time this can be said (and not at the end of Book 3) says the half way point is somewhere in the course of Book 4. That supports seven books also.

Yeah, it'll be seven, even if the last one looks like a phone book.

And Utterly Dwarfed is (will be?) the sixth "main storyline" book, meaning the next book will be the seventh, meaning we'll need to remember what phone books look like it'll be the last.

[wRAR]

Are the rubies really just for the forcecage spell? There is too much of them.

[faustin]

When I saw the title I figured we'd get an update on Team Evil. And we did, just not the evil team I was expecting.

And yes, I am sure Sabine mixes business with pleasure, most conspicuously with Nale. Which just makes me wonder, giving that she is using vacation days, if she isn't trying some angle to get Nale back.

As far as the idea of fiends having vacation days, um, devils would have a bureaucracy, but Sabine is a demon, right? So never mind.

Not sure how Hell works in the OoTSverse, but shouldn't Nale's soul have already been reborn into a Mane?

[Fyraltari]

Re: The artifact, it can’t be anything that belongs to the main characters (vilains included) since Cedrik already has it. So it’s most likely a brand new doomsday device. Hmm, does anyone recall what happened to the talisman Nale was after? Weren’t the Directors the one that tipped him about it in the first place? What was that chekov’s Gun longevity record again?

No, you're thinking of Nale; Tarquin cares about procedure.

Counterpoint:

a final showdown with Elan is exactly what Tarquin wants (and what ordinary story convention would demand.)

Do note that the VL ending up in service to the IFCC is in no way a guarantee of a Elan/Tarquin showdown, for once they are V’s arch-nemesis(es?) and for twice I could totally see Tarquin dying to Xykon as is proper for a big bad wanabe.

She sort of showed her defiance already by secretly tipping V off in how to beat Laurin.

How is that defiant?

I'll take that bet.

Imma put that in my sig so we don’t forget.

[Edward15]

Here.


And Utterly Dwarfed is (will be?) the sixth "main storyline" book, meaning the next book will be the seventh, meaning we'll need to remember what phone books look like it'll be the last.

Dang. I was hoping it would last a little longer than that.

[Ghosty]

...The phylactery is just a standard magic item. The only confirmed artifact is the Crimson Mantle, although the Greenhilt Sword may qualify as a minor artifact by this point.

The totally-not-the-Hammer of Thunderbolts that Durkon is now swinging?

I wonder if it's some other artifact from D&D lore? Probably still under product identity, and can't be used. What sort of artifact would be useful for the Directors?

[Baphomet]

As to the question of what artifact they refer to, I'm not necessarily throwing my vote this way, but has anyone considered the unholy chalice Quarr was trying to get V to mess with?

[Elkad]

...grams...

Wizards. Using scientific measurements when everyone else is using stones and cubits.

[Resileaf]

Dang. I was hoping it would last a little longer than that.

It'll still last very long. The seventh book will be as big as it needs to be, so for all we know, it'll still be going on for years.

[Snails]

For story reasons, it makes sense for Sabine to choose to screw over Tarquin.

For practical reasons, that is quite hard for her to accomplish; as Tarquin wears a Ring of True Seeing, he himself is more difficult to manipulate than your typical near epic level Face.

It is conceivable for Sabine to work against Tarquin via his out of town allies and various enemies, though, but what that would mean specifically would require a more insight than I can muster this morning. It is likely that Tarquin is still obsessed with Elan, so there may be ways to encourage him in that unhealthy hobby.

[HeraldOfExius]

...it cost us nothing and we can still proceed.

Given that letting Girard's gate get destroyed cost them one of their claims on V's soul, I'm curious to see what they would consider to be an actual cost.

[Ghosty]

Are the rubies really just for the forcecage spell? There is too much of them.

An incomplete list (most of what I could find by Googling, related to 5e spells), but this thread goes into detail about spells with expensive components. https://www.enworld.org/threads/spel...terials.43348/

It's incomplete---Simulacrum is not mentioned. Edit part 2, it is mentioned, I just glossed over it. Thought it was an 8th level spell, not a 7th.

EDIT: got interrupted, but the only spell I see on that list that might be it is Temporal Stasis. Or the 6th level Fire Spiders one, just because that'd be cool to see the Giant draw.

[Snails]

It'll still last very long. The seventh book will be as big as it needs to be, so for all we know, it'll still be going on for years.

It could be made into Part 1 and Part 2, where by story arc the tale is split at the narrative middle point. If necessary.

That would not be intentionally misleading, as even a pretty good high level outline of the plots would not necessarily be predictive of the amount of effort in art the artist may choose to employ. This was a prediction made years and years ago. The Giant's style has slowly evolved over that time.

[Psyren]

Do note that the VL ending up in service to the IFCC is in no way a guarantee of a Elan/Tarquin showdown, for once they are V’s arch-nemesis(es?) and for twice I could totally see Tarquin dying to Xykon as is proper for a big bad wanabe.

Which makes this idea even worse, because now we're saying he doesn't even have a guarantee of running into Elan again with this plan, much less being killed by him directly like he wants.

Look, I'm not saying it's impossible that the defeat + Snarl aren't sufficient for him to flush his characterization down the toilet like that, just that I'm... willing to lay odds that's not the case.

How is that defiant?

I presumed she was whispering because she didn't want her bosses to know what she was saying. Seems logical to me.

[Edward15]

Given that letting Girard's gate get destroyed cost them one of their claims on V's soul, I'm curious to see what they would consider to be an actual cost.

I think they were referring to Hel's scheme. Since they weren't involved in it, they didn't have to expend any resources.

[Frozenstep]

Nice to see the IFCC in the new art style.

The special attention to the rubies is interesting. It demonstrates the goodness of Durkon's family (but we've seen that plenty) and 2 jokes, but what else does it show?

V will be plenty prepared for more force cages.

It shows force cage actually requires rubies to be consumed, which a non-dnd player won't know without this scene. So later on, it's possible the rubies being used up/stolen will come up.

Those rubies exist, so they could be used for something else. Simulacrum was already pointed out, but is there any bard/cleric spells that also require rubies?

[drazen]

So it would have helped the fiends if Hel had managed to get the world destroyed? Are they really trying to destroy it themselves, in that case?

They did say their actions were "part of a scheme to bring down the gods of Good," which Hel becoming Queen of the Northern Pantheon would probably do, as then the Northern Pantheon would be dominated by Evil, and Hel would work to rig the new world in her favor to starve all the Northern Gods of soul power.

However, the fiends did say they had a plan for the gates, specifically. Maybe that plan was just to destroy them all? Except now the Good gods know not to cash in any souls from the apocalypse, if it gets to that point. Maybe their artifact is a really elaborate Trap the Soul spell for the whole world when it ends? Catch the dwarves then turn them over to Hel, if the gods wouldn't normally allow it?

[Resileaf]

It could be made into Part 1 and Part 2, where by story arc the tale is split at the narrative middle point. If necessary.

That would not be intentionally misleading, as even a pretty good high level outline of the plots would not necessarily be predictive of the amount of effort in art the artist may choose to employ. This was a prediction made years and years ago. The Giant's style has slowly evolved over that time.

Rich has stated he'd make the final book as big as it needs to be, and I am inclined to believe him, and if he changes his mind, he'll tell us quite clearly.

[Snails]

As to the question of what artifact they refer to, I'm not necessarily throwing my vote this way, but has anyone considered the unholy chalice Quarr was trying to get V to mess with?

That is a pretty good guess.

On the other hand, Qarr seemed genuinely surprised that the amigos were in on this game.

Of course, the pipsqueak could be a better manipulator than I have sussed out, but the concrete evidence for such is notably thin so far (beyond the useless "he is so damn good than he seems almost incompetent all the time").

[Snails]

Rich has stated he'd make the final book as big as it needs to be, and I am inclined to believe him, and if he changes his mind, he'll tell us quite clearly.

Sure. I do not disagree. But The Giant may not actually know himself until he is a third of the way through the 7th book, and he realizes how he wants to treat certain sub-arcs is more expansive than he first imagined those years ago.

[Windscion]

And Utterly Dwarfed is (will be?) the sixth "main storyline" book, meaning the next book will be the seventh, meaning we'll need to remember what phone books look like it'll be the last.

Snerk.
Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[Nightcanon]

New comic is up.

Dun dun dunh!

[Ghosty]

...Look, I'm not saying it's impossible that the defeat + Snarl aren't sufficient for him to flush his characterization down the toilet like that, just that I'm... willing to lay odds that's not the case...

FWIW, I'm totally on board with your prediction, or just the appropriateness, of Tarquin getting ganked by a woman of color minor character. Preferably off-screen, and mentioned only in passing.

Seems more and more fitting as I keep thinking about it. Which probably means it won't happen that way.

[Nightcanon]

I'm already suspicious of the dwarf. (I don't know D&D can a succubus change size?)

That was my initial thought! Something about the comment about taking a day off, plus it would fit with Sabine's MO at the start of Paladin Blues.
D&D dwarves are Medium sized, like humans (I think she was in dwarf shape when she sent Roy off on the Starmetal Quest).

[Lkctgo]

Can anyone estimate just how much GPs worth of Rubies V just got from Durkon's extended family? Given the seeming wealth and power of Durkon's "family", I wonder why isn't Sidgi's arm fixed (not wanting to live on her "family's" charity is one thing - but this seems like it won't even have been a problem to pay for it)?

[Giggling Ghast]

So, it sounds like the IFCC wanted Hel to succeed, since her not succeeding means that the gods did not wind up doing the work for the fiends. So does that mean the fiends want the world destroyed/re-made, or at least that such is the most obvious interpretation?

That seems very odd, considering that outsiders get their memories wiped.

Obviously they have some goal in mind that the destruction of the world would achieve. The question is: what?

[b_jonas]

I was wondering if Team Evil payed the material cost to create all those zombies in their army.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

That was my initial thought! Something about the comment about taking a day off, plus it would fit with Sabine's MO at the start of Paladin Blues.
D&D dwarves are Medium sized, like humans (I think she was in dwarf shape when she sent Roy off on the Starmetal Quest).

She was. Also, they can change size, as long as it's small or medium.

[MossyMeow]

It sounds like the IFCC wanted the gods to destroy the world, which makes me wonder: what is their goal? I've been trying to puzzle it out, but I am terrible at theorizing. It's all a confusing jumble of information. Ah well, analysis isn't my cup of tea anyway.

[gatemansgc]

hot damn, introducing some great new plot threads as the book winds down.

i literally only checked for the lulz, was not expecting a new comic so soon O_o