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Thread: So who killed Penelope?
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2019-10-24, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
So who killed Penelope?
I've been going over Blood Runs in the Family again.
I noticed that Elan thought Tarquin killed Penelope (his ninth wife) and Tarquin thought Nale did it.
So who do we think might have killed her? If it's neither of those two?
Or was that also a result of the familicide spell? I mean she didn't have "black dragon" blood but she was the mother of one?
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2019-10-24, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Mangholi Dask
Re: So who killed Penelope?
It was Familicide. It kills anyone who shares blood with the target, and then anyone who shares blood with any of the first-stage victims.
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2019-10-24, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
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2019-10-24, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
There's an image of it happening when Vaarsuvius realizes the full implications of their action in this comic. Penelope's on the bottom-right of the "familicide storm" panel.
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2019-10-24, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-10-24, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2019
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
now that I'm aware that vaarsuvius was that close to having been responsible for the death of elan, a party member and friend.. it makes me imagine all the possibilities of a horrible timeline in which that did happen. nobody under the impact of the spell was particularly close to v, I imagine the additional toll it would have on them upon finding out it wasn't some freak accident that killed him, but instead a direct result of their selfish mistake.. would be quite grievous.
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2019-10-24, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
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2019-10-24, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
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2019-10-24, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2019
- Gender
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2019-10-24, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Penelope is not in step 1. Penelope is in step 2. If she had a child with Tarquin, that child would be in step 2, but Tarquin would not; he would not share blood with anyone in step 1. Children Tarquin had beforehand would not be in step 2, as they would not share blood with anyone in step 1.
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2019-10-24, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Nale, Tarquin, and Elan still would not share blood with anyone with the blood of a Black Dragon. They'd have enough degrees of separation to avoid being killed off by Familicide.
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2019-10-24, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2019
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
I see now, thank you for clarifying. I still had fun with my musings though.
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2019-10-24, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
No worries, Familicide is notorious for having a ridiculous number of threads popping up on how it works and the logistics, and it's not uncommon for people to still get it wrong.
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Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-10-24, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- SoCal
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Agree there safe but it might have been a different story if it had a third step in who it kills.
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2019-10-25, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?
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2019-10-25, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- Penthouse Suite
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Awesome Avvy by Sizlord!
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2019-10-25, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
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2019-10-25, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
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2019-10-25, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Gender
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2019-10-25, 02:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Heck, we know explicitly from the start that it wouldn't have worked on V's own family.
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2019-10-25, 03:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
But might still be scared about the effect on their surviving relatives, enough to avoid to try to avenge who is dead. At the time I made a correlation with Mafia, which is famous to use a similar method to scare people ("We will not kill -only- you, but before that we will kill your family... and your little dog, too"). (Even if, basically, that was done by every single evil tyrant in the world, I'd guess).
So either the one who seeks vengeance must not care enough about his surviving relatives, or must be really sure to win that fight. Probably, since killing an epic necromancer requires a lot of resources, is a safer better to just resurrect all the people killed by that spell than endangering the surviving ones.
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2019-10-25, 05:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
In most cases, spending millions of gold on resurrection (Raise Dead can’t return a character who was killed by a death effect, which Familicide probably is) spells is probably about as difficult as killing an epic necromancer. Or at the very least, it’s just about the same level of difficulty, in that it’s essentially impossible.
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Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2019-10-25, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Personally I always thought Haerta intended that spell simply as a way to deliver disproportionate retribution, and the bit about making sure no one went after their family again was just V rationalizing their genocidal urges (or buying Haerta's pitch because it allowed them to rationalize said urges).
ungelic is us
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2019-10-25, 06:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Pretty much this. Friends, non-blood relatives, vassals, lieges... are not affected by the spell and are likely to seek revenge.
I mean, if I am a Baron and someone slaughters my peasants left and right, I'm supposed to do something about it. Not just because it's my duty to protect the peasants, but also for economic self-interest. One commoner slain, okay, I am probably not going to mind about it. But if then the murderer obliterates half the villiage with Familicide, then I can't weasel off that one.
If the purpose of the spell had really been to prevent vengeance, then the effects would be more like a massive mind-wipe to make everybody forget about the target having ever existed. Cheaper cost and better performance.Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-10-25 at 06:34 AM.
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2019-10-25, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Behind you. RIGHT NOW.
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Wait. Are you telling me Familicide wasn't well thought through?
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2019-10-25, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: So who killed Penelope?
It could be a town-burner rather than a world-scourer. A small close-knit society has a lot of distant relations marrying, so hitting a first level commoner with it could probably cripple the village enough for you to finish it off with regular spellpower. It could also have been designed especially to target Kings and wipe out their family lines (which in a medieval setting where royal bloodlines were considered important, would be devastating to a whole country).
When designed, it probably wasn't intended to be used the way V did. Just because s/he didn't use it right doesn't mean it wasn't thought through enough. And from another perspective, it was thought through just fine; it did exactly what Rich wanted it to, nothing more or less.
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2019-10-25, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Not every characater, the ones who the close-to-epic or epic avenger is interested. That requires just a bunch of gold. And, AFAIR, resurrection works for death effects' victims.
Meh. It in that way you endanger your own surviving family members, that is a bit too risky. But, as I said at the time, I can grant that Mafia (I mean the RL, not the game; and a lot of RL tyrant, too) worked for centuries on that principle, with highs and lows, of course. It has shown to be pragmatically effective.Last edited by Dr.Zero; 2019-10-25 at 08:30 AM.
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2019-10-25, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: So who killed Penelope?
(deleted for double posting)
Last edited by Dr.Zero; 2019-10-25 at 08:30 AM.
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2019-10-25, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: So who killed Penelope?
Hereta's title was " Destroyer of Hope". I get the sense she made Familicide for no practical purpose other then sadistic torture. Think of it like Xykon, a man to whom I imagine Hereta was very similar: Did he NEED to do the bouncy ball? No. He's a Sorcerer. He could have blasted them all to death with Meteor Swarm without even entering the room. Did he want to? Oh, did he ever.
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2019-10-25, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018