The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    As said, you're free to quibble on the definition of "free." For instance, I consider fire fighters, roads, and other taxed services as free.
    And you'd be wrong to do so. I'm not arguing that such services or even no cost college is a bad thing. But it's being paid for by somebody. And in the US that somebody is usually the middle class.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Roads are largely paid for by whoever drives on them, due to fuel excise taxes (Which in the U.S. haven't been raised for decades, which is why so much of the infrastructure is in the shape it is). Firefighters are paid out of the municipal budget, of which sales taxes are a major source of revenue; thus, if you ever buy something you are paying for the firefighters (and cops, street sweeping, etc).

    Paying for something indirectly is still paying for it.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    And you'd be wrong to do so.
    I disagree; I see taxes as a sunk cost, so they don't factor into what I see as all other costs.

    ETA: That is to say, if I buy an Arizona tea for a $1.08, I don't see it as a 99 cent tea with a 9 cent tax, I see it as a buck o'eight tea. I'm aware it's that price because of a tax I am paying, but I don't give it a meaningful difference when budgeting. Same for income taxes or all other taxes.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-11-07 at 12:36 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I disagree; I see taxes as a sunk cost, so they don't factor into what I see as all other costs.

    ETA: That is to say, if I buy an Arizona tea for a $1.08, I don't see it as a 99 cent tea with a 9 cent tax, I see it as a buck o'eight tea. I'm aware it's that price because of a tax I am paying, but I don't give it a meaningful difference when budgeting. Same for income taxes or all other taxes.
    The thing is that you're paying for a variety of things with that 1.08 some percentage is paying for the cost of labor to make it. Some percentage is profit for the store. If the store offered you a free tea because you were a repeat customer then it would be free to you. In contrast the no cost college assumes that you will, once you're a taxpaying member of society pay back the cost of college into the public coffers otherwise the system would fail. Meaning it's a deferred cost rather than cost, somewhat like student loans in the US at least at a conceptual level.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    The thing is that you're paying for a variety of things with that 1.08 some percentage is paying for the cost of labor to make it. Some percentage is profit for the store. If the store offered you a free tea because you were a repeat customer then it would be free to you. In contrast the no cost college assumes that you will, once you're a taxpaying member of society pay back the cost of college into the public coffers otherwise the system would fail. Meaning it's a deferred cost rather than cost, somewhat like student loans in the US at least at a conceptual level.
    I'm not saying I think it's actually free; I'm saying I don't bother to differentiate the cost so I call it free, despite that I fully realize I am paying for it in other ways.

    For example, I don't think of the tea as whatever portion goes to the manufacturer, whatever portion goes to net profit, whatever portion goes to advertising costs, etc. etc. I see it as 99 cents as a whole, despite that the cost is really getting split up appropriately. Thus, when tax is added, I see it as a buck nine and just call the roads free, because I'm not going to bother differentiating when it doesn't matter and I'm paying anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    Meaning it's a deferred cost rather than cost, somewhat like student loans in the US at least at a conceptual level.
    Well except you pay it whether you used the service or not.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Well except you pay it whether you used the service or not.
    When it comes to roads, everyone uses them. No store is getting their food delivered by horse these days, or taking a rickshaw to the hospital along a dirt path.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    When it comes to roads, everyone uses them. No store is getting their food delivered by horse these days, or taking a rickshaw to the hospital along a dirt path.
    Was talking about the free university part.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Was talking about the free university part.
    I think that still benefits everyone.

    We are getting close to politics though so I think we should steer elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    No store is getting their food delivered by horse these days, or taking a rickshaw to the hospital along a dirt path.
    Words written by someone who obviously doesn't have Amish neighbors. I've seen more then one hospital that has posts to tie horses, & couldn't name a single bank, grocery store (including walmart) that doesn't have horse tie posts. Fairly common at Dr's offices and dentists. My neighbor went to the midwife, for both her pregnancies, in a horse and buggy, after labor had started. Midwife was about 16 miles away. Her youngest was born December before last. At least a mile is on a dirt township road.

    We had one girl that occasional would ride her horse to high school.
    Last edited by Mitth'raw'nuruo; 2019-11-12 at 02:40 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: What would it take to become a History teacher in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitth'raw'nuruo View Post
    Words written by someone who obviously doesn't have Amish neighbors. I've seen more then one hospital that has posts to tie horses, & couldn't name a single bank, grocery store (including walmart) that doesn't have horse tie posts. Fairly common at Dr's offices and dentists. My neighbor went to the midwife, for both her pregnancies, in a horse and buggy, after labor had started. Midwife was about 16 miles away. Her youngest was born December before last. At least a mile is on a dirt township road.

    We had one girl that occasional would ride her horse to high school.
    And yet those banks, hospitals and stores use the road system and therefore so do they when they use their services. Even if the midwife is on a dirt road, unless she hand makes her tools from locally sourced mines they still are benefitting from the roads.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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