The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Barbarian and Wis Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    Every class has weak spots. Spending too much effort trying to shore them up often means too little is done to make your strengths shine. Given equal costs, more fun is often had by raising the ceiling of your performance than by raising the floor, especially in a group/team game.
    Whilst this may be true in many games, I've found that in my experience, the tougher the game, the more important it is not to be so reliant on your companions to shore up your failings. Yes, raising your personal ceiling at the cost of the floor will in theory make the group more effective, but in play it often leads to the weaknesses of the individuals being exploited and resulting in the group as a whole failing. A high effective ceiling is great so long as you have the ability to use it. In an "easy" game, you'll rarely lose the ability to contribute. Not so much in a more difficult or Combat as War style game.

    Of course, this is my experience only.
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

    Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Barbarian and Wis Saves

    Why would a Barbarian be any more of a liability to the party for a failed Wisdom saving throw than a Fighter that you imply to praise to high heavens? Neither class is proficient with said Saving Throw?

    Besides, I'd say that a Rogue, even without feats, is far more dangerous in terms of a potential TPK. Or a sorcerer. Neither is proficient with the save, and can deal ridiculous amounts of damage and avoid it themselves. Not to mention that Sorcerers have access to various debilitating non-damaging spells. Plus, even though rogue eventually gains Wisdom Saving Throw proficiency, they must wait for 15th Rogue Level for that.

    If Feats come to play, nothing prevents any of these classes to take Resilient (Wisdom), if you're so afraid of those saves.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2019-11-01 at 06:58 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Vinland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Barbarian and Wis Saves

    Raising the ceiling on Barbarians is remarkably easy. 2 ASIs in strength and a feat will do it. 2 feats if you want a cool combo.

    My current Barb is Variant Human for Resilient Wisdom at level 1 and picked up GWM at 4. 2 more ASIs to max Strength and I have a murder machine that is much more likely to not have his Rages ended by stuns or other incapacitations, or being dominated and have his murderousness turned on the party.

    I suppose I could have just grabbed the lucky Feat

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    GMT-5
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Barbarian and Wis Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Why would a Barbarian be any more of a liability to the party for a failed Wisdom saving throw than a Fighter that you imply to praise to high heavens? Neither class is proficient with said Saving Throw?
    TBF a single classed fighter has more point-buy points to spare for Wis (as they need Str or Dex, not Str and some Dex), gets indomitable for rerolls, and can spare more feats/ASI's than a barbarian can.

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