To produce reliable minions / slaves from monsters ( mid-low magic setting )

[Conradine]

Let's take standard savage creatures as base material.
Here some ideas ( for a mid-low level spellcaster mastermind ) to shape unreliable humanoids ( gnolls, orcs, ogres, ogrillons ) into good servants.

1- Gelding them as whelps to reduce aggression and unpredictability

2- Crossbreeding them with devils to produce more intelligent and Lawful-aligned offspring

3- Mass producing a reliable herbal / fungi drug to reduce willpower and control through addiction

4- Repeated use of Hypnotism starting from the whelps, reinforced by drugs to enhace suggestibility


Please give me your opinion on those ideas and if you have some other methods to suggest I'll be twice happy.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Let's take standard savage creatures as base material.
Here some ideas ( for a mid-low level spellcaster mastermind ) to shape unreliable humanoids ( gnolls, orcs, ogres, ogrillons ) into good servants.

Okay, so we're justifying the cliche. Got it.

1- Gelding them as whelps to reduce aggression and unpredictability

Big problem with this one: where do you get more? I presume you're looking at these as largely expendable minions but once they're expended they have to be replaced. One of the reasons you even choose goblins is for their fecundity. It also rather interferes with number 2.

2- Crossbreeding them with devils to produce more intelligent and Lawful-aligned offspring

I'd think you'd want to go with something more purely lawful like formians or modrons (don't ask me how you accomplish either with their life cycles). Breeding in a desire to bring down those higher in the hierarchy so that they can rise to the top just so they'll be more likely to follow the rules seems like a -really- bad idea.

3- Mass producing a reliable herbal / fungi drug to reduce willpower and control through addiction

Now this one's got some merit. If you don't expect them to handle most tasks with intellect in the first place, dulling that intellect with something they can't get enough of and can only get from you is a solid plan.

4- Repeated use of Hypnotism starting from the whelps, reinforced by drugs to enhace suggestibility

You want them docile, not suggestible. Even then only for the ones doing simple, repetitive tasks. You want the guard-dogs to stay fiery but controllable.

Please give me your opinion on those ideas and if you have some other methods to suggest I'll be twice happy.

I prefer a subtle approach. Mind-screw a few tribal chieftans into regarding you as their pesonal god and just nudge them in the direction you want the tribes to go. If you're going direct control, I have to presume its because what you're doing with them demands nothing less; e.g. leading the horde on a war of conquest to install you as a new king.

[Conradine]

Big problem with this one: where do you get more? I presume you're looking at these as largely expendable minions but once they're expended they have to be replaced. One of the reasons you even choose goblins is for their fecundity.

Well, no, that system do not allow for largely expendable minions, is more suitable for building a tameworkforce in a secret, probably subterranean, hidden fortress / dungeon with vast fungal garden and insect farms to produce low cost but higly nutritive food. Females could be used as breeders and only the most docile, obedient and meek male whelps would be allowed to grow adult and reproduce ( so we would obtain a more stable, less aggressive breed ).

you want them docile, not suggestible. Even then only for the ones doing simple, repetitive tasks.

I meant, the master gives the suggestions. A form of magically enhanched ( and drug-enhanched ) brainwashing.

If you're going direct control, I have to presume its because what you're doing with them demands nothing less; e.g. leading the horde on a war of conquest to install you as a new king.

My idea was a more static, stagnant form of evil ( Dispater docet...). An evil overlord that builds a secret, subterranean, self-sufficient lair with big minions to act as workers and guardians and little minions ( like goblins ) to be used as sacrifice fuel ( Book of Vile Darkness, sacrifice rules ).
Using dark craft to build unlimited magical equipment. Mabye an army of golems.

[Deadline]

Vampires and vampire spawn seem like they might better fit what you are after.

[Conradine]

Vampires cannot be controlled by drugs and enchantments. They have difficult food requirements also.

[Deadline]

Vampires cannot be controlled by drugs and enchantments. They have difficult food requirements also.

That's what your disposable slaves are for. (food)

Control of undead is way easier to get than other beings. And you can start a control chain, with you controlling the top, who controls several underlings, each of which controls their own spawn, etc.

[Conradine]

But you need to find a lot of level 5 characters in order to get vampires able to spawn, and level 5 character don't grow on trees.

[Deadline]

But you need to find a lot of level 5 characters in order to get vampires able to spawn, and level 5 character don't grow on trees.

What level range are we talking about, and what sort of caster? The Vampires/spawn are just for the minions that you need to be intelligent. Use skeletons and zombies for cheap, repetitive labor.

I suppose you could use Ghouls for intelligent undead. Or Wights.

[Conradine]

Use skeletons and zombies for cheap, repetitive labor.

A level 5 ( mid low ) spellcaster can control only 10 scheletons. 20 if he's a cleric. It's really not much.

About the vampires, I mean that a character under level 5 cannot be turned into a true vampire, only a spawn.
But still, undeads strike me as too dangerous, for the most.

I was thinking about ways to mold living humanoids / giants into obedient, brainwashed servant ( using only mundane tools like drugs and brainwashing, and low level [1-3] spells ).

I suppose you could use Ghouls for intelligent undead. Or Wights.

A mid low level character could not control more than an handful of them at best.
Although they could be useful as stationary defence, chaining them in a room after cutting their tongues so they can't organize or parley with the invaders.

[Deadline]

A level 5 ( mid low ) spellcaster can control only 10 scheletons. 20 if he's a cleric. It's really not much.

There's really not a lot a caster that low level can control reliably (for certain definitions of reliably).

About the vampires, I mean that a character under level 5 cannot be turned into a true vampire, only a spawn.
But still, undeads strike me as too dangerous, for the most.

If you have a control mechanism, undead are the least dangerous minions (well, least dangerous to their controller).

I was thinking about ways to mold living humanoids / giants into obedient, brainwashed servant ( using only mundane tools like drugs and brainwashing, and low level [1-3] spells ).

None of these methods will be 100% reliable though, so it sort of hinges on "how reliable" you are talking.

A mid low level character could not control more than an handful of them at best.
Although they could be useful as stationary defence, chaining them in a room after cutting their tongues so they can't organize or parley with the invaders.

This is what chain controlling is for. Control a handful of undead who can spawn wights, and then have them create wights, and have them create wights, etc. You don't directly control all of them, but you can effectively order them all around through the chain of command.

That being said, that's kind of boring. Also, if this is for an NPC, then you don't really need a method. Just pick something that sounds plausible and say that it works. Don't overthink it.

[Tvtyrant]

No mention of drugs? For shame.

Get a lot of then addicted to one of the drugs from the Book of Vile Darkness. Your midlevel character makes the drugs and distributes them in return for military service.

Rhul battlewine from Lords of Darkness is a good one. It makes the drinker rage, so your army is better in combat as well as reliant on you.

[Psyren]

Please give me your opinion on those ideas and if you have some other methods to suggest I'll be twice happy.

Why bother with your own control structure when you can just appropriate an existing one? Manipulate, dominate or outright replace their existing leader and you won't have to worry about any complex logistics, they'll run themselves like they've always done as long as you're not overly capricious.

[Tvtyrant]

Speaking of which, the Awaken spell on animals makes them into willing servants. Awakened Dire Apes are essentially beastmen, while awakened trees are actually pretty strong. The XP requirements aren't too bad, you can spam the spell and either use a thought bottle or just delay a level for a while.

[RatElemental]

Well there's always the mundane route: Lots of chains and people holding whips (who are loyal to you because you let them hold the whip instead of wear the chains and also have some luxuries). Nothing says "Obey" like being the strongest guy in the room who also has all of the strongish guys in the room loyal to him.