OOTS #1184 - The Discussion Thread

[Ron Miel]

Word of Giant:

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statu...63473393381376
[Roy] can remember anything from Clouds, including the dish of food he brought down the elevator with him.

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statu...63877711712256
Everything else is "fuzzy," not full amnesia. So he knows he saw his Mom, but not exactly what happened.


One can reasonably presume the same applies to Minrah.

[SimonMoon6]

I guess if you were crazy and evil enough, you could make a Self Golem!

That's basically what happened to the Tin Man (or Tin Woodman) from the Wizard of Oz... or rather, sort of the opposite. In one of the later books, his origin story is explained: he was a woodman who was cursed by a witch so that when he went to cut wood with his axe, he would instead cut off a part of himself. First, he lost a leg and had a tinsmith replace it. Then, he lost his other leg and had a tinsmith replace it. Eventually, every part of his body, even his head, was replaced.

However, since nobody can die in Oz (according to later books (and boy was there some dancing around the fact that two witches died in the first Oz story)), his original head was still alive, and the Tin Woodman went to talk to it, but the two of them did not get along.

[KorvinStarmast]

Ironically, when this quest is over and Durkon returns home again (alive the next time, hopefully), his 'silly human ideas' may end up generating a greater following for Loki than anything Hilgya's ever done.

Yeah, he might at that.

Tom Lehrer. "I hold your hand in mine, dear / I press it to my lips..."

Thanks for doing what I was thinking of doing.

Sigdi here to me seems someone who has a mental disorder of some sort.

PTSD, maybe.

So with that in mind, it's not entirely unreasonable to speculate if a certain character is Sabine in disguise. But saying "This character could be Sabine in disguise!" solely based off a character's skin color is...well, let's just say it's problematic at best, and leave it there.

Roy it totally Sabine in disguise.

There are often grandkid expectations and wants, whether or not those wants align with that of their immediate child.

I see you've met my wife. She laid a bit of that on our daughter, though I tried to get her not to.

I actually logged in after years of lurking just to point out that Sigdi hit bullseye when she said happiness is something we want for our children, not us. As a father of a newborn who spent days in a ICU after being born and having been dealing with depression for years, I can't agree more. This actually brought tears to my eyes.

Dad feels right back at ya.

From what I've seen about Sigdi Thundershield, she is selfless to a fault. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be detrimental to one's own well-being.

It's who she is. I've met people like this in real life. My mom is still that way.

Sigdi is not refusing happiness; she is made happy herself by contributing to the happiness of others, and by her own independence ... She herself would be better off one-armed for one more week in a world that survives, rather than two-armed in a world that is destroyed.

Both points hit it from beyond the three point arc: nothing but net.

[Doug Lampert]

Is this correct? I'm not a gamer, but I heard that clerics can swap learned spells for healing at will.

A cleric that turns undead (such as Durkon) can swap a prepared spell for an equal or lower level cure wounds spell. So Durkon could swap Regeneration for Cure Serious Wounds (Mass) or Cure Critical Wounds.

He can't swap it for Heal, which is lower level, generally more useful, and almost always used to cure wounds, because Heal isn't a "cure wounds" spell.

So he isn't stuck with the spell, but it's best combat uses (Holy Word, Heal, Destruction, Ethereal Jaunt) are all gone till tomorrow.

[Petrocorus]

One can argue that Sigdi shouldn't opt to retain her disability while still arguing that she should get to opt for that.

Loki be damned! I'm agreeing with the Weirdo.

I have to admit I'm a little uncomfortable about this aspect of the story. It feels like this is implying that being one-armed (i.e. disabled) is inherently a form of suffering and Sigdi's choice to remain in that state a form of self-martyrdom, despite Sigdi being largely comfortable and adjusted to it. Like, if being one-armed means something to her, let her stay that way. I get that Sigdi as a character struggles with prioritizing or even admitting to her own needs, I just wish it wasn't shown through her desire to not get the magical disability cure.

I really don't see how missing a limb could not be a suffering to a degree or at least an hindrance. Even if it's not painful.
Even if Sigdi is clearly able to handle herself and was able to raise Durkon without her arm being a major issue, there are still dozen and dozens of things that would clearly be easier for her if she had two arms.

The fact she's able to do these things with one arm doesn't mean it wouldn't be easier with two.

I have some (really) minor disabilities myself, and if i was only 1 free spell from a relative away from getting rid of my gout, my back issues or my bad sight, i wouldn't hesitate for a second. And i've been wearing glasses my whole life and this is completely an inherent part of my identity, yet that wouldn't impede me from taking the cure, not for second, if i could have it with no catch. And i don't think any sane person with any kind of disability would refuse this. They may want time to prepare themselves, they may need time to adjust later, but they wouldn't refuse.

Sigdi is perfectly entitled to refuse the Regeneration. And she clearly has her reasons. But those reasons are certainly neither rational nor practical, they are emotional. She would objectively be better off with her two arms. And this is not mean or offensive from us to point this out.

i don't know how Dwarven aging works, but honestly, .... to keep her one-armed status.

If it follow the 3.5 rules, which is not sure, Dwarves are adult at 40, middle aged at 125 and can live up to 450 theoretically.

Given Sigdi was already an experienced fighter when she lost her arm and now has grey hair, i doubt she was less than 50 when she lost it.

It took this comic for it to occur to me that Durkon's posthumous memory seems quite stronger than Roy's. Is it because of a difference in the rules of their respective afterlives, or some special intervention by Thor?

My understanding is that they both can remember well what happened outside of Valhalla / Mountain, but have / would have difficulties to remember what happened inside.

Roy doesn't seems fuzzy about all the things he has seen has a "ghost" or his conversation with the deva.

[Resileaf]

Also I think her refusal to be regenerated is a hint that she has yet to move on from Tenrin's death. She's still grieving, and she's terrified of thinking that having her arm back would mean letting go of her husband and officially being over it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

One other point: Tactically, she is 100% correct that it is better to have the spell available on the one chance in a million that it's needed in Durkon's quest to save the world.

That is not tactically relevant for more than the ~half day until he refreshes spells again.

[Schroeswald]

That is not tactically relevant for more than the ~half day until he refreshes spells again.

Anyway, wouldn't he already have it prepared anyway? So as long as he doesn't need a regeration or a Mass Cure Serious Wounds in the next half a day, its fine.

[The_Weirdo]

Loki be damned! I'm agreeing with the Weirdo.

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

[MoonCat]

Word of Giant:

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statu...63473393381376
[Roy] can remember anything from Clouds, including the dish of food he brought down the elevator with him.

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statu...63877711712256
Everything else is "fuzzy," not full amnesia. So he knows he saw his Mom, but not exactly what happened.


One can reasonably presume the same applies to Minrah.

Thank you for providing the specific strips I noted, but was too lazy to cite.

[Petrocorus]

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

Does your part of the dark side also have maruins and carapanas?

Because i already got enough of that, thank you.

[Prospekt]

So... Considering the exchange in the last two panels here and how Minrah's mom was sighing looking through the baby book, I kind of get vibes that The Giant is teasing that she's trans? Might just be spitballing here, but at the same time, sighing loudly (sounds pretty passive-aggressive) at a baby book is, I dunno, kinda steering my thoughts in that direction right now.

[Arathorne]

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

According to Siri if you have cookies you must have friends also, for if you had no cookies you would have no friends...

[The_Weirdo]

Does your part of the dark side also have maruins and carapanas?

Because i already got enough of that, thank you.

So... You're from French Guyana? I mean, I live in southeast Brazil. Maruins and carapanãs are more endemic to the Amazon.

According to Siri if you have cookies you must have friends also, for if you had no cookies you would have no friends...

Necessary doesn't mean sufficient.

[Petrocorus]

So... You're from French Guyana? I mean, I live in southeast Brazil. Maruins and carapanãs are more endemic to the Amazon.

Not from, but live there. And we don't get maruins.

Those #@!%$&* are in the Parà.

In southern Brazil, you probably have a more tempered climate.

[The_Weirdo]

Not from, but live there. And we don't get maruins.

Those #@!%$&* are in the Parà.

In southern Brazil, you probably have a more tempered climate.

Hey, tell me something: do you have easy access to Guaraná Baré?

[Petrocorus]

Hey, tell me something: do you have easy access to Guaraná Baré?

Nope. Don't get this one here.
We have Guarana Ara and one Brazilian trademark of guarana soda here.
Why this question?

[The_Weirdo]

Nope. Don't get this one here.
We have Guarana Ara and one Brazilian trademark of guarana soda here.
Why this question?

Was gonna ask you to send me some in exchange for some favor (of course, I'd pay for the product and transportation). It tastes great, if I recall correctly. I only had it some 28 years ago or so, when I was escaping Colombia.

[Peelee]

Ironically, when this quest is over and Durkon returns home again (alive the next time, hopefully), his 'silly human ideas' may end up generating a greater following for Loki than anything Hilgya's ever done.

I don't see why, considering there are more gods in the North than just Thor and Loki, and I don't know why Durkon's ideas would lead people to one of the Evil gods, let alone to change gods to begin with.

[D.One]

Ironically, when this quest is over and Durkon returns home again (alive the next time, hopefully), his 'silly human ideas' may end up generating a greater following for Loki than anything Hilgya's ever done.

I don't see why, considering there are more gods in the North than just Thor and Loki, and I don't know why Durkon's ideas would lead people to one of the Evil gods, let alone to change gods to begin with.

I don't really see Durkon having that much "silly human ideas". He's a son putting himself in the service of his mother, a son who spent years perfecting himself with the main purpose of being able to cast a single spell to help her. Can't get much more dwarvish than that.

[Fyraltari]

So... Considering the exchange in the last two panels here and how Minrah's mom was sighing looking through the baby book, I kind of get vibes that The Giant is teasing that she's trans? Might just be spitballing here, but at the same time, sighing loudly (sounds pretty passive-aggressive) at a baby book is, I dunno, kinda steering my thoughts in that direction right now.

I read it as the mother being passive-aggressive about Minrah leaving the nest. I very much doubt that she’s intended as trans as the Giant has, by his own admission, a terrible record of handling that particular issue and has sworn not to touch it again.

[The Aboleth]

So... Considering the exchange in the last two panels here and how Minrah's mom was sighing looking through the baby book, I kind of get vibes that The Giant is teasing that she's trans? Might just be spitballing here, but at the same time, sighing loudly (sounds pretty passive-aggressive) at a baby book is, I dunno, kinda steering my thoughts in that direction right now.

Possible, but doubtful based on what The Giant said here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...5#post23426825

EDIT: I think whatever Minrah's "thing" is, we'll never find out because it's supposed to be up to reader interpretation.

[Juhn]

I really don't see how missing a limb could not be a suffering to a degree or at least an hindrance. Even if it's not painful.
Even if Sigdi is clearly able to handle herself and was able to raise Durkon without her arm being a major issue, there are still dozen and dozens of things that would clearly be easier for her if she had two arms.

The fact she's able to do these things with one arm doesn't mean it wouldn't be easier with two.

I have some (really) minor disabilities myself, and if i was only 1 free spell from a relative away from getting rid of my gout, my back issues or my bad sight, i wouldn't hesitate for a second. And i've been wearing glasses my whole life and this is completely an inherent part of my identity, yet that wouldn't impede me from taking the cure, not for second, if i could have it with no catch. And i don't think any sane person with any kind of disability would refuse this. They may want time to prepare themselves, they may need time to adjust later, but they wouldn't refuse.

Sigdi is perfectly entitled to refuse the Regeneration. And she clearly has her reasons. But those reasons are certainly neither rational nor practical, they are emotional. She would objectively be better off with her two arms. And this is not mean or offensive from us to point this out.

As someone who's had moderate-to-severe disabilities since birth, I'd like to second this.

[AchtungNight]

Someone build her a steampunk robot arm with axe launchers and a snack dispenser already.

She'd probably turn it down, but still amen. :D

[Schroeswald]

EDIT: I think whatever Minrah's "thing" is, we'll never find out because it's supposed to be up to reader interpretation.

I disagree with this, Minrah has just joined the Order, she’s going to have a story somewhere and this is one of the first character beats she’s been given to develop, I think we’ll learn it (though not necessarily anytime soon).

[Alabenson]

Here's a thought regarding Sigdi and her arm; maybe part of the reason that she's resistant to regenerating it is that she's intentionally handicapping herself in case she finds an opponent who can send her to Valhalla so she can be with her husband.

[MossyMeow]

So... Considering the exchange in the last two panels here and how Minrah's mom was sighing looking through the baby book, I kind of get vibes that The Giant is teasing that she's trans? Might just be spitballing here, but at the same time, sighing loudly (sounds pretty passive-aggressive) at a baby book is, I dunno, kinda steering my thoughts in that direction right now.

That’s an interesting thought, though considering that the Giant has previously said that he has no plans to include trans characters in OOTS, it’s very unlikely.

Although if that was the case, that would be an incredibly natural way to introduce it. I actually have a trans sister, and earlier today I was laughing with my mother about an old Halloween costume of hers. I accidentally said that other people would have been confused by the sight of a little girl in that costume, then corrected myself upon remembering she had been a boy during that time. Something similar, where someone makes an error and uses the character’s current pronoun rather than their previous pronoun, could work well for conveying that a character is trans.*

*My sister transitioned as a teenager; I’m aware some trans folk have seen themselves as their preferred gender their entire lives, and so the current/previous pronoun thing wouldn’t make sense. But in my family’s case, we refer to her with male pronouns when referencing her life prior to transitioning.

[Jay R]

So... Considering the exchange in the last two panels here and how Minrah's mom was sighing looking through the baby book, I kind of get vibes that The Giant is teasing that she's trans? Might just be spitballing here, but at the same time, sighing loudly (sounds pretty passive-aggressive) at a baby book is, I dunno, kinda steering my thoughts in that direction right now.

I doubt it. Her daughter is going on an adventure for people far above her level. She is fearful that Minrah is likely to die.

[MADCrab]

Everybody who says Sigdi is disabled and the obvious choice is to take the regeneration: The deaf community disagrees with you quite strongly.

[The_Weirdo]

Everybody who says Sigdi is disabled and the obvious choice is to take the regeneration: The deaf community disagrees with you quite strongly.

Sure, and we disagree with them. Granted, I feel rather at a loss as to what is their argument, but I am willing to learn.