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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Lightbulb How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    If you were to take 5 levels of Sorcerer (grabbing Twin and Quicken), as well as a couple of levels of a class that gets melee capabilities (say fighter 6 or warlock 6). You could (theoretically) Twin Booming Blade on two targets in melle (3d8 (1d8 weapon and 2d8 BB) to each, and 3d8 when they move) and then Quicken another for 3d8+3d8 more damage. This would give the class a (theoretical) damage of 15d8 at 11th level, at a cost of 3SP. The only question, is this even viable to try to do?
    Somehow computer Double posted. Sorry!
    Last edited by No1ofIntrst; 2019-11-03 at 09:38 AM.

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Twinning BB is very DM dependent (hard no for me) due to the material component requirement and the basic logical break of needing a weapon attack as part of casting thr spell. You can't hit two targets with one attack.
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Agreed. The SCAG cantrips are parsing nightmares for the rules (although not significantly worse than 'unarmed weapon attacks' and other nuances of the system). Point is, we can argue until we're blue in the face about the RAW, and then the DM will just have a different interpretation.

    One quick question for the OP -- why Fighter or Warlock 6? You're asking about using twinned BB, which means you are doing that instead of multi-attack. So why not just MC enough to get your sorcerer a melee-respectable AC (and maybe a fighting style) and see about the Twinned-BB/Quicked-BB combo with the DM? Alternately, you could just do your two attacks (given that you are a level 6 fighter or I'm assuming bladelock warlock), and then throw a quickened BB on top of that (one less DM-ruling standing in your way).

    Concerning BB's rider -- do you have any way of delivering this spell at range (say a polearm/whip and spell sniper feat) or a non-bonus-action way of retreating without drawing OAs (mobility, swashbuckler feature, or being a goblin)? If not, I would suggest that the rider might not come into play (and should be left out of any damage calculations. An Eldritch Knight with War Caster (who uses BB instead of Sentinel to make sure people don't rush past them to attack the squishy party members) can make great use of the rider, as can an Arcana Cleric death blender, or an AT with bonus action disengage. This sorcerer build already has a use for their bonus action.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    We have a Sorcerer 14/War Cleric 1 with Gauntlets of Ogre power and she has the same AC as our melee characters and can dish out pretty serious melee damage with quickened GFBs. If there are two targets to hit, thats 10d8+38 (she's a dragon sorc, so she gets her CHA to fire damage)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quicken is 2 sp per turn. You don't have a lot of SP, and yeah, you could convert all your slots into SP and quicken a whole lot in an adventuring day. So you'd melee and mostly not cast Sorc spells.

    But why not multi-class instead? Be a Sorcadin w/ 6 lvls in Pal for extra attack and aura. Then get sorc levels for meta. This way you can quicken bb for a third attack - you can smite on 3 attacks per turn when you nova (like on a boss fight). You have great AC.

    Pure melee sorc can be made to work but is kinda gimpy. Ac 13 + dex is meh. Take a level of hexblade and get med armor, have 14 dex and use shield for ac 18. ac 23 w/ shield.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chugger View Post
    Quicken is 2 sp per turn. You don't have a lot of SP, and yeah, you could convert all your slots into SP and quicken a whole lot in an adventuring day. So you'd melee and mostly not cast Sorc spells.

    But why not multi-class instead? Be a Sorcadin w/ 6 lvls in Pal for extra attack and aura. Then get sorc levels for meta. This way you can quicken bb for a third attack - you can smite on 3 attacks per turn when you nova (like on a boss fight). You have great AC.

    Pure melee sorc can be made to work but is kinda gimpy. Ac 13 + dex is meh. Take a level of hexblade and get med armor, have 14 dex and use shield for ac 18. ac 23 w/ shield.
    I feel like the "drawback" of mele sorc is that sorc just wants to be able to shift in and out of mele freely, skirmishing rather than face tanking as we do still rely heavily on ranged spells.

    (Not really disagreeing, lock 1 or cleric 1-2 are both stellar dips)

    (While it is UA, stone sorc is perfectly capable of mixing it up in mele.)
    Last edited by Nhorianscum; 2019-11-05 at 06:23 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    I like the idea of a mountain dwarf sorcerer wearing medium armor and wielding a battle axe with two hands.

    Twin those BB!

    I suppose it might be more effective to have a draconic sorcerrr elf (nat AC + high DEX) using a short sword though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Why not just play a drow dragon sorcerer. You get prof with rapier. Then dragon sorcerer you get con save, ac 13+dex, and +1 hp per lv. If you spend a feat on tough, and mobile. You can jump in and out of melee with a decent hp pool and your a straight sorcerer with no multi classing.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Throne12 View Post
    Why not just play a drow dragon sorcerer. You get prof with rapier. Then dragon sorcerer you get con save, ac 13+dex, and +1 hp per lv. If you spend a feat on tough, and mobile. You can jump in and out of melee with a decent hp pool and your a straight sorcerer with no multi classing.
    This is probably optimal. DEX and CHA bonus, and a better weapon option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


    BRING BACK ALIGNMENT LANGUAGES!!!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Throne12 View Post
    Why not just play a drow dragon sorcerer. You get prof with rapier. Then dragon sorcerer you get con save, ac 13+dex, and +1 hp per lv. If you spend a feat on tough, and mobile. You can jump in and out of melee with a decent hp pool and your a straight sorcerer with no multi classing.
    1 extra point of damage is really not worth disadvantage all day every day.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhorianscum View Post
    1 extra point of damage is really not worth disadvantage all day every day.
    But is the CHA bonus worth it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


    BRING BACK ALIGNMENT LANGUAGES!!!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    But is the CHA bonus worth it?
    *screams in half elf*

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    How about a storm fist(twin meta-magic shocking grasp) dragon sorcerer.
    Last edited by Garfunion; 2019-11-15 at 02:23 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhorianscum View Post
    *screams in half elf*
    The half elf doesn’t have a weapon more optimal than a dagger though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


    BRING BACK ALIGNMENT LANGUAGES!!!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Twinning BB is very DM dependent (hard no for me) due to the material component requirement and the basic logical break of needing a weapon attack as part of casting thr spell. You can't hit two targets with one attack.
    Is it really? It seems crystal clear to me that it should work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


    BRING BACK ALIGNMENT LANGUAGES!!!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post

    The half elf doesn’t have a weapon more optimal than a dagger though.
    The gap between 2.5+50ish and 4.5+50ish is not relevant.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Just use shadow blade with booming blade?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhorianscum View Post
    The gap between 2.5+50ish and 4.5+50ish is not relevant.
    50ish? Where’s that coming from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


    BRING BACK ALIGNMENT LANGUAGES!!!

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    If you want to be a full sorcerer with no multuclassing, not super well. You'll have very limited armor and weapon proficiencies with a severe dependence on a very limited resource to make your full attack action. We are talking two to three times per day for the majority of the game unless you burn spell slots.

    Now, if you are open to multiclassing then I have a proposition for you. Two levels of Paladin mixed into the first 5 levels. Best to take them as levels 4 and 5 so that you get your power boost at the same time as everyone else (smite). From there, you have a stupid powerful nova once per day that only grows as you continue to level your sorcerer class. Most people say that you should take 6 levels in Paladin for maximum effectiveness forgetting that you have to play those 6 levels and then the sorcerer levels before you start to feel the power of the multiclass. Taking just 2 levels early gives you a whole slew of super powerful and useful spells that Sorcerers don't easily get access to, a little more HP, proficiency in martial weapons and medium armor, lay on hands for easy disease control, and smites.

    The first 5 levels of a game tend to go by quickly with the next 5 taking a rather long time (based on my experience with the exp curve in 5e anyway) so if I am going to multiclass I want it online as fast as possible. If you get into the higher levels, once you have a comfortable amount of spell slots and sorcery points, taking more levels of Paladin isn't a bad idea for this build. Also, because you'd probably go sword and board for this build I highly recommend warcaster unless you start as a Paladin; then Resilient Constitution is probably best.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    I'm currently playing a Hill Dwarf Stone Sorcerer with 8 charisma right now. Of course, Stone Sorc is pretty much specifically designed for melee with it's HP and AC abilities, and is UA to boot. I wouldn't have even asked to play it if I wasn't already hobbling myself with the charisma. Level 6 now, and he's been doing amazing.

    A big thing to focus on when playing a melee-focused sorcerer is not dealing damage. If you want to deal damage a blaster will basically always beat you. The key is to be a force multiplier who can still stand in the front. With Con save proficiency. high Constitution, and Twinned, you are great at casting buffs and keeping them up. With Divine Soul you'll need to go with a race that gives armor and Con to have any survivability, but you do get some great spells out of it.

    If you can convince your DM to allow the old Favored Soul (the one with armor and shield proficiency) or Stone Sorcerer, Hill Dwarf or Variant Human (probably with Tough) are great choices. Otherwise Mountain Dwarf is probably the way to go. Or perhaps a Hobgoblin if you take Moderately Armored at level 4.

    If you are going the High-Charisma route, then a Hexblade dip is the best way to get most of what you would want out of a melee Sorc.
    Last edited by AdAstra; 2019-11-17 at 08:12 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    50ish? Where’s that coming from?
    Dual proc draconic GFB at 20.

    It's sorta underwhelming. Still, not awful for 0 invest.

    --------------

    Stone sorc with shadow blade or GWM actually hurts like beetch with Actual Spell+(BB+Edge)+Reactiontelefrag/Warcaster BB+Edge.

    Anything else and we're skirmishing. Which is not bad. Vhuman!Draconic with Mobile is heavily underated.
    Last edited by Nhorianscum; 2019-11-17 at 03:17 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How well would a Melee Sorcerer work?

    If you're already going to multiclass, take one level of Hexblade, then go into Divine Soul Sorcerer. Divine Soul gets you Aid and Spirit Guardians. You can either cast Greenflame/Booming Blade with your action, or Twin Booming Blade (sparingly). Use Quicken to cast your normal spells. You should generally start turn one with a Quickened Spirit Guardians, then use something like Fireball or Shatter on following turns if needed. Avoid Quickening a blade cantrip, it's not an efficient use of resources.

    You're essentialy a SAD Sorcadin without Divine Smite, it will work just fine.
    Last edited by Blood of Gaea; 2019-11-17 at 03:49 PM.
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