Can you cast contingency revivify?

[Keeganwilson]

as the title says is the revivify spell a valid Target for this spell

[Aelyn]

I would say no. One of the requirements of the contingent spell is that it can target you, and at the time you cast Contingency, Revivify can't target you. It's therefore not a valid Contingent spell.

[Arkhios]

I would say no. One of the requirements of the contingent spell is that it can target you, and at the time you cast Contingency, Revivify can't target you. It's therefore not a valid Contingent spell.

And just how you cease to be you when you're dead?

I'd say that the above is flat out wrong.

The contingent spell's all effects and requirements are checked at the moment it's chosen to take effect, and as long as you've died within 1 minute of the contingent conditions, Revivify works on you as written.

[Aelyn]

And just how you cease to be you when you're dead?

I'd say that the above is flat out wrong.

... at the time you cast Contingency, you're not a valid target. As part of casting Contingency, you need to cast a spell that can target you. Is Revivify a spell that can target you at that time? No. It's therefore not a valid contingent spell.

The contingent spell's all effects and requirements are checked at the moment it's chosen to take effect, and as long as you've died within 1 minute of the contingent conditions, Revivify works on you as written.

Why do you conclude that the effects and requirements are only checked when Contingency triggers, rather than when it's cast?

[Arkhios]

... at the time you cast Contingency, you're not a valid target. As part of casting Contingency, you need to cast a spell that can target you. Is Revivify a spell that can target you at that time? No. It's therefore not a valid contingent spell.


Why do you conclude that the effects and requirements are only checked when Contingency triggers, rather than when it's cast?

I conclude so, because Contingency does not specify a requirement for when the contingent spell could be cast on you. You only assume it implies it has to be able to target you at the time of casting Contingency, but it really doesn't say anything of the sort.

You only choose the spell to be cast when the circumstance of your choosing is met, and expend the spell slots for both spells. That's it.

[Bobthewizard]

As far as RAW I think you could argue either way. If I were DM, I would allow it for sure. As far as I can tell, you could only do it with a bard using magical secrets for both spells. (It's not in front of me right now, maybe revivify was added to the bard list with the new variant UA so only one magical secrets slot if that's the case.)

Either way, it's a a lot of resources to pour into something that a couple classes and one race get already.

[Yunru]

I'd also point out that the resurrection spells are perfectly fine targeting living creatures, as long as they were recently dead.
So just cast Contingency Revivify after being revived for the first time.

[ThePolarBear]

as the title says is the revivify spell a valid Target for this spell

No, for the same reason that would bring you to not choose "Drive a car" when asked to "Choose which of these activities a 10 years old is allowed to do".

I conclude so, because Contingency does not specify a requirement for when the contingent spell could be cast on you. You only assume it implies it has to be able to target you at the time of casting Contingency, but it really doesn't say anything of the sort.

You only choose the spell to be cast when the circumstance of your choosing is met, and expend the spell slots for both spells. That's it.

It uses simple present.

"Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you."

Not "that will be able to be cast on you when the conditions apply."

Again, you would never say that a ten years old is allowed to drive a car, would you?

I'd also point out that the resurrection spells are perfectly fine targeting living creatures, as long as they were recently dead.
So just cast Contingency Revivify after being revived for the first time.

Not Revivify. It has to have died within the last minute. (edit for most castings of Contingency. There are some VERY specific exceptions.)

[Yunru]

Not Revivify. It has to have died within the last minute.

And? You can be alive and have died within a minute.

[Lupine]

you're not a valid target

Uhh. I'm not sure if you are going to like this but, I think you can cast it on yourself, it just has no effect at that time. Its like casting cure wounds on a creature that is at full health. It doesn't do anything, but you're not invalid.

[PhantomSoul]

Not Revivify. It has to have died within the last minute. (edit for most castings of Contingency. There are some VERY specific exceptions.)

I believe Yunru's referring to the fact that the Creature could have technically been revivified during that past minute.

Round n: death
Round n+1: revivify
Rounds n+2 to n+9: eligible for Revivify

[firelistener]

I'm all about RAW, but this one seems like it could go either way with a strict reading. I don't see it as being overpowered in any sense either. It only restores you with 1HP and requires at least Wizard level 11 and Cleric level 5. Very steep investment for a very slim chance of being helpful.

[JackPhoenix]

I believe Yunru's referring to the fact that the Creature could have technically been revivified during that past minute.

Round n: death
Round n+1: revivify
Rounds n+2 to n+9: eligible for Revivify

Which is less than helpful with Contingency's 10 minutes-long casting time.

[Yunru]

Which is less than helpful with Contingency's 10 minutes-long casting time.

Luckily you only have to be eligible at the start, AFAIK.

[ThePolarBear]

And? You can be alive and have died within a minute.

I believe Yunru's referring to the fact that the Creature could have technically been revivified during that past minute.

Round n: death
Round n+1: revivify
Rounds n+2 to n+9: eligible for Revivify

Yeah, i edited my post pretty much at the same time as Yunru posting recognizing the possibility in certain cases, which isn't really the "general situation" that happens most of the time. Yeah, you could be killed, be resurrected and at that point cast Contingency for Revivify. As a general use case however...

Edit: mind you... not that i agree that a caster is "a dead creature" at all for other spells.

Luckily you only have to be eligible at the start, AFAIK.

Not really. You have to be eligible at some unspecified time "as you are casting". Which is not that different.

[Aelyn]

I conclude so, because Contingency does not specify a requirement for when the contingent spell could be cast on you. You only assume it implies it has to be able to target you at the time of casting Contingency, but it really doesn't say anything of the sort.

You only choose the spell to be cast when the circumstance of your choosing is met, and expend the spell slots for both spells. That's it.

Actually, you do cast the contingent spell as part of casting Contingency - it just doesn't take effect yet - and Contingency explicitly states "Choose a spell... that you can cast... that can target you." That's why I say you need to be a valid target at the time Contingency is cast.

Uhh. I'm not sure if you are going to like this but, I think you can cast it on yourself, it just has no effect at that time. Its like casting cure wounds on a creature that is at full health. It doesn't do anything, but you're not invalid.

You are not (typically) a <creature that has died within the last minute>, therefore you are not a valid target for Revivify. Same reason you can't cast Knock[ on yourself - you aren't an <object that contains a magical or mundane means to prevent access>.

I believe Yunru's referring to the fact that the Creature could have technically been revivified during that past minute.

Round n: death
Round n+1: revivify
Rounds n+2 to n+9: eligible for Revivify

Contingency has a ten-minute cast time. Even if you die, get revived, and immediately start casting, you're not a valid target by the time you finish casting.

The only way around this issue - as far as I can tell - is Gentle Repose, since that effectively adds ten days to the one-minute time limit for Revivify. So if you die, have Gentle Repose cast on you within one minute, and are then brought back to life in less than nine days, twenty-three hours, and fifty minutes, then you will have a window to Contingency a Revivify on yourself. If you know both spells.

EDIT: I do grant that the question of "when in the casting of Contingency do you have to be a valid target" is a lot less clear, RAW, and can see the argument for beginning to cast Contingency Revivify immediately after being revived.

[Yunru]

As a general use, now that I've reread the spell, there is no restriction. Spells don't care about any restrictions their effect has, if you cast it you cast it, even if you can't do anything with it.

Edit: Which, on reflection, is self-evident. For instance, you're not always going to know how long they've been dead.
I forget the fancy name, but there's a proof where you switch the assumption then point out the logical fallacy in it. Applying that here:
We assume that you can't cast Revivify unless the target has died within a minute.
We come across a corpse in battle, time of death unknown.
We attempt to cast Revivify.
We now magically know whether he died within a minute because we either can or can't cast the spell.
In the event we can't, we now magically know this without having cast a spell. We haven't done anything, this is a contradiction.

And thus, I do prove my above point AND that I'm bad at explaining things.

[ThePolarBear]

As a general use, now that I've reread the spell, there is no restriction. Spells don't care about any restrictions their effect has, if you cast it you cast it, even if you can't do anything with it.

Edit: Which, on reflection, is self-evident. For instance, you're not always going to know how long they've been dead.

Which is why you can target the body, but the spell won't.

But that doesn't matter, the spell effect doesn't happen until the Contingency trigger.

Contingency requires a spell that can target you.

And it can, when you're dead. It doesn't say "that can target you now" after all.

And it doesn't need to. It's present, not future. Furthermore, it must be a spell that you can cast. So, since tomorrow i will memorize "Dispel Magic", i can put into a Contingency now, right?

We can go on in "Absurd territory" here Yunru. It's a present. It either means "as a general condition, ever true" or "now".

Edit: condensed different posts in a single one. In no way Yunru is multiposting - there were my posts in between theirs.

[Wraith]

As a general use, now that I've reread the spell, there is no restriction. Spells don't care about any restrictions their effect has, if you cast it you cast it, even if you can't do anything with it.

Edit: Which, on reflection, is self-evident. For instance, you're not always going to know how long they've been dead.

This is how I read it. You can ALWAYS cast a spell so long you have a target - if it's not a VALID target then the spell will fail, but you'll still lose the spell slot. It has "cast" but it doesn't "do" anything.

In the case of Revivify, you have a target - a creature within touch range, ie; yourself. It's not a valid target unless that creature has been dead for less than a minute, but according to Contingency that doesn't matter; the spell isn't being "activated" and therefore checking the validity of the target until the contingency occurs, which will be "when I die".

[Yunru]

Which is why you can target the body, but the spell won't.

But that doesn't matter, the spell effect doesn't happen until the Contingency trigger.

Edit: rereading Contingency, 8 can see where you're arguing from, but I still don't agree with the assumption that the spell won't target it.

[Yunru]

Contingency requires a spell that can target you.

And it can, when you're dead. It doesn't say "that can target you now" after all.

[Yunru]

And it doesn't need to. It's present, not future. Furthermore, it must be a spell that you can cast. So, since tomorrow i will memorize "Dispel Magic", i can put into a Contingency now, right?

We can go on in "Absurd territory" here Yunru. It's a present. It either means "as a general condition, ever true" or "now".

No, you can't. Because you cast the spell as part of casting Contingency to counter exactly that.

[Lupine]

It only restores you with 1HP and requires at least Wizard level 11 and Cleric level 5. Very steep investment for a very slim chance of being helpful.

I think this is a much more reasonable way to think about this. Sure, it can be done, but its such a large investment, would you really want to? I think this is probably a more effective gimmick for the BBEG than for the players.

[ThePolarBear]

No, you can't. Because you cast the spell as part of casting Contingency to counter exactly that.

And for the same reason, Contingency tells you that the spell needs to be able to target you. And it doesn't. It will, but that's not what was asked.

Edit: before confusion strikes: i've edited and deleted many of my posts and condensed them into a single one. Not Yunru's fault if they have several posts one after the other.

[PhantomSoul]

I'm all about RAW, but this one seems like it could go either way with a strict reading. I don't see it as being overpowered in any sense either. It only restores you with 1HP and requires at least Wizard level 11 and Cleric level 5. Very steep investment for a very slim chance of being helpful.

Or be an Arcana Cleric and take Contingency as one of your Arcane Mastery Spells... but that still takes a hefty investment (and requires a higher Level than Multiclassing would require!)

[Hail Tempus]

"Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you."

Not "that will be able to be cast on you when the conditions apply."

Again, you would never say that a ten years old is allowed to drive a car, would you?

You didn't quote all of the relevant text of Contingency (emphasis mine):

Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you. You cast that spell–called the contingent spell–as part of casting Contingency, expending spell slots for both, but the contingent spell doesn’t come into effect. Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs.

Revivify is lower than 5th level, has a casting time of 1 action, and can target the caster. I'm not seeing the issue here. The spell triggers when the circumstance (presumably "When the caster dies") is met, and brings the caster back to life with 1 hp, per the spell.

[Gignere]

Or be an Arcana Cleric and take Contingency as one of your Arcane Mastery Spells... but that still takes a hefty investment (and requires a higher Level than Multiclassing would require!)

Or bard steal revivify and contingency bam not even an investment because these two spells are likely high on most character optimization lists to steal anyway.

But probably easier to just steal and/or cast death ward for a similar effect.

[Rukelnikov]

Round 1: Suicide
Round 2: Cleric Revivifies you
Round 3: Wish for Contingency, make Revivify contingent on yourself

To be able to cast both spells, be a Divine Soul Sorc, or a Bard, or be able to cast one of this spells and get the other from an item.

[Aelyn]

You didn't quote all of the relevant text of Contingency (emphasis mine):



Revivify is lower than 5th level, has a casting time of 1 action, and can target the caster. I'm not seeing the issue here. The spell triggers when the circumstance (presumably "When the caster dies") is met, and brings the caster back to life with 1 hp, per the spell.

The target for Revivify is "a creature that has died within the last minute." When casting Contingency (barring highly exceptional circumstances), the caster is not "a creature that has died within the last minute." Therefore, the caster can't be targeted by Revivify while casting Contingency, and therefore Revivify is not a valid choice of Contingent spell.

[ThePolarBear]

You didn't quote all of the relevant text of Contingency (emphasis mine):

I did.

"Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you."

At this point, you need to check if Revivify can be cast on you. It is not "That may target you", "that will be able to target you when the conditions arise".

The spell needs to be able to target you when you cast Contingency. The "now".

Revivify is lower than 5th level, has a casting time of 1 action, and can target the caster.

It MAY, mind you. But as i presented in my first post the circumstances for that "may" to be a "can" are extremely specific.
In general, Revivify can not target the caster. It may, in the future. It will, the moment that the conditions apply. But that's not what is asked. You are asked for a spell that can. Not one that may or will.

I'm not seeing the issue here. The spell triggers when the circumstance (presumably "When the caster dies") is met, and brings the caster back to life with 1 hp, per the spell.

The issue is that the question is "As i am casting Contingency", not "when the spell comes in effect".The effect of Contingency that includes the clause that the spell "can target you" is not part of "when the spell will take place", nor has any other time ascribed to it other than the present - when you are casting Contingency.

Again, for the same reason i assume you would never pick "Drive a car" if a question asks you to pick what a 10 years old is allowed to do. Just because they may be able in the future the question is about the "now".

For the same reason as i imagine would not allow to cast a 6th level spell as part of a non-upcasted Contingency just in the off chance that the character might be able to gain the same spell as a 4th level one. "But it says that it has to be a spell of xth level or less, so the slot that you are spending is of 6th level!" "So what? t doesn't say that you can't spend a slot of nth level! And when Contingency will trigger that spell will be of 4th level for me! The trigger is exactly that condition!"

See the problem in the argument?