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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    Contingency literally says you cast the Contingent spell as part of casting Contingency...



    It's only the effect of the Contingent spell which is delayed, not the casting of it.
    Which in this case the target at the time is also delayed. Hence the spell slot is used but the spell is not actually "cast" at the time. It is basically stored in the contingency for later use when a specific trigger happens.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Sorry edited due ot idiocy of poster (me) i was thinking of something else at the time of posting.
    Last edited by OzDragon; 2019-11-10 at 05:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    Which in this case the target at the time is also delayed. Hence the spell slot is used but the spell is not actually "cast" at the time. It is basically stored in the contingency for later use when a specific trigger happens.
    I... don't even know what you're trying to say here.

    The spell is explicitly cast as part of casting Contingency. I really can't think of a way of making this clearer, because at this point your argument is literally just "the spell doesn't do what it says it does".

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    Would you allow this. Contingency: counterspell the next harmful spell that is cast on me.
    No. Counterspell is not a spell that can target you (and it doesn't have a casting time of 1 action), so it's not a valid choice of Contingent spell. Exactly the same logic, but even more cut and dried.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Not exactly.
    You can't choose something that targets a point in space, since there's no way to not target a point in space. For example.
    Well per the Xanathar's "Invalid Spell Targets," RAW, actually you can by all means do this, it will just have no effect since a Creature is not a Valid Target for a spell that specifies a Target of a Point In Space. It does not separate "types" of targets, it only gives one example of a creature that is "believed to be a humanoid" but is not. That is just an example, not the entire rule.

    I don't think at all this is the RAI, but it is in fact the RAW. This of course sort of contradicts the Targets section of the PHB which would lead one to believe a spell can only be cast at its designated Target specified.

    Of course, this would still mean any of these spells would have no effect, and so why would one do this makes no sense. It does though, beg the question why the Contingency spell description bothers with "...that can target you" if in fact, any spell can target you per the clarification of Invalid Targets in Xanathar's (which also makes it perfectly clear if you are not a Valid Target for the spell it will still have no effect regardless).

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    No. Counterspell is not a spell that can target you (and it doesn't have a casting time of 1 action), so it's not a valid choice of Contingent spell. Exactly the same logic, but even more cut and dried.
    Per Xanathar's Invalid Target rule, Counterspell can certainly target you (it will simply have no effect on you as an Invalid Target), but as you say the lack of a 1 Action casting time would prevent it's use with Contingency anyway.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    OK lets break this down a bit.

    Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you.

    Does revivify tic all the boxes? Yes

    You cast that spellócalled the contingent spellóas part of casting contingency, expending spell slots for both, but the contingent spell doesnít come into effect.

    The spell does not have a target at this time due to it not coming into effect yet. The target is chosen by the spell (You) when the contingency goes off ( You die)

    Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs. You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells.

    Revivify when I die. Easy.

    The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends.



    Its pretty clear if you read the spell that this works.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    OK lets break this down a bit.

    Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you.

    Does revivify tic all the boxes? Yes
    That's debatable, as evidenced by this entire thread. Can Revivify target you even if you're not "a creature that died within the last minute"? If not, then the entire premise falls down.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    That's debatable, as evidenced by this entire thread. Can Revivify target you even if you're not "a creature that died within the last minute"? If not, then the entire premise falls down.
    The spell can target you and does when the contingency comes into effect!

    It's only really debatable if you overthink it.
    Last edited by OzDragon; 2019-11-10 at 05:41 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePolarBear View Post
    Yeah. You pick the target, the spell tells you what it can target. The very same following line from what you are quoting: "A spellís description tells you whether the spell Targets creatures, Objects, or a point of Origin for an area of effect (described below).". You choose, the spell tells you if it will have an effect. You make a choice, the spell tells you if it is a valid one.

    For Contingency: you "Choose a spell [...] that can target you". If the choice isn't a valid one then there's no effect.




    Sorry, i did miss your post.

    Three times: once because it is a requirement for Contingency to have an effect at all. The second because you need to cast the spell. The third time you need to check if a spell can have any effect at all. Two and Three are usually one and the same and one doesn't really exists outside of Contingency - it is a requirement of that spell after all. Contingency does change all of that. And usually One and Two are checked at the same time - the spell to store has to be a spell that you can cast anyway.

    It might not be that Three is intended: the Contingency does state that the spell "takes effect". However, the target section does tell us that targets are what is going to be affected by the spell - that which the spell has an effect on - and the spell tells us what it can affect. And Cont. also tells us that the spell will target you and only you even if the contingent spell could or would otherwise affect other creatures. Which could mean that it is meant to completely change all the "parameters" of the spell taking effect to "now it targets you and only you, regardless of form" as a change on the targeting requirements, instead as simply being a forced choice. However, there are other spells that work as changing the parameters of the spell - lifting concentration, extending duration... - that are way more explicit on what they actually do.
    You're assuming 'That can target you.' means 'That can target you right now this instant as the spell is cast.'

    Given the nature of contingency it makes more sense for it to be read as 'That could ever at any point conceivably target you.' which revivify could at some point concievably do.

    You're also doing the very legallese nitpicking that is anathema to 5e design. The game wasn't designed to support treating it like a legal document.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    You're assuming 'That can target you.' means 'That can target you right now this instant as the spell is cast.'

    Given the nature of contingency it makes more sense for it to be read as 'That could ever at any point conceivably target you.' which revivify could at some point concievably do.

    You're also doing the very legallese nitpicking that is anathema to 5e design. The game wasn't designed to support treating it like a legal document.

    I also think people are confusing can target you with targets you this is what matters.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    I also think people are confusing can target you with targets you this is what matters.
    As I see it, the two big questions here are:

    1) When Contingency says "a spell that can target you", does it mean "a spell that could target you at the time that you cast Contingency" or "a spell that could theoretically target you at any point in the future"?

    2) Is Revivify "a spell that can target you" even if you're alive at the time it's cast?

    If the answer to 1 is "any point in the future", it works. If the answer to 2 is "yes", it works. But if the answer to 1 is "as Contingency is cast" and the answer to 2 is "no", it doesn't work.

    Obviously, I think that the answers line up so it doesn't work. Others disagree. But it makes it easier to have a meaningful discussion if you know what it is that's being debated.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    You're assuming 'That can target you.' means 'That can target you right now this instant as the spell is cast.'
    Say there was a spell that targeted "an Elf within 30 feet." If you were human, could you Contingency that spell? Because it's conceivable that you could die and get Reincarnated as an Elf, but I think if you tried that argument at any real table the rest of the table (including the DM) would give you blank stares at best.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Consider if, in normal, non-contingency circumstances, if you can try to cast Revivify on a creature that hasn't died in the last minute - if it's dead too long, or it's actually still alive, or it was just a lifelike construct, or whatever. Does the spell discharge ineffectively, or does the DM have to say 'ah, that's invalid, you didn't do that, so don't spend your action, diamond, or spell slot?'

    Or a more likely case, what if you try to Charm Person on a vampire?

    Xanathar's has an expanded rule for this on page 85-86, Invalid Spell Targets. A short quote from it:

    If you cast a spell on someone or something that can't be affected by the spell, nothing happens to that target, but if you used a spell slot to cast the spell, the slot is still expended.

    This suggests that if your campaign is using the expanded Xanathar's rules, you can definitively contingency revivify on yourself, knowing that it would be useless going off now, but will be helpful if you are dead.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Esclados View Post
    Consider if, in normal, non-contingency circumstances, if you can try to cast Revivify on a creature that hasn't died in the last minute - if it's dead too long, or it's actually still alive, or it was just a lifelike construct, or whatever. Does the spell discharge ineffectively, or does the DM have to say 'ah, that's invalid, you didn't do that, so don't spend your action, diamond, or spell slot?'

    Or a more likely case, what if you try to Charm Person on a vampire?

    Xanathar's has an expanded rule for this on page 85-86, Invalid Spell Targets. A short quote from it:

    If you cast a spell on someone or something that can't be affected by the spell, nothing happens to that target, but if you used a spell slot to cast the spell, the slot is still expended.

    This suggests that if your campaign is using the expanded Xanathar's rules, you can definitively contingency revivify on yourself, knowing that it would be useless going off now, but will be helpful if you are dead.
    The bold is a yes. You cast the spell in this case is just has no effect due to the time has passed. I can understand the second part though and would be ok with that also.

    But in this case there is no invalid spell target at the spell does not target anything till the circumstance happens. Try not to over think this.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    Say there was a spell that targeted "an Elf within 30 feet." If you were human, could you Contingency that spell? Because it's conceivable that you could die and get Reincarnated as an Elf, but I think if you tried that argument at any real table the rest of the table (including the DM) would give you blank stares at best.
    This in my opinion is just a ridiculous example as it has no bearing on the conversation. You would not try to cast a contingency for an elf if you were human in the first place.
    Last edited by OzDragon; 2019-11-10 at 08:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    There's no reason why Revivify wouldn't work with Contingency. It is clearly stated that the chosen spell doesn't come into effect until the trigger occurs.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrykhor View Post
    There's no reason why Revivify wouldn't work with Contingency. It is clearly stated that the chosen spell doesn't come into effect until the trigger occurs.
    Obviously you are not a lawyer unlike half the folks posting in this thread. They are parsing every phrase, comma and period and decided because of that revivify is an illegal contingent. Thankfully I like my RPG in non legalese so contigent revivify would work in my game. Since it is totally a suboptimal choice.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Even reading with magnifying glass it can still be done... i'll repeat:

    Round 1: Suicide
    Round 2: Friendly priest Revivifies you
    Round 3: Wish to duplicate contingency + Revivify
    You can't use Wish to duplicate Contingency. Well, you can, but it doesn't work.

    You have to cast the contingent spell as part of casting Contingency, but if you duplicate the Contingency's effect through Wish, you haven't done so. You now have Contingency's effect with no secondary spell attached to it. You can't use Wish with spell glyph option of Glyph of Warding for the same reason. Weird and likely not RAI, but RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    The spell does not have a target at this time due to it not coming into effect yet. The target is chosen by the spell (You) when the contingency goes off ( You die)
    False. Choosing the spell's target is part of the spell's casting, not its effect's.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    You can't use Wish to duplicate Contingency. Well, you can, but it doesn't work.

    You have to cast the contingent spell as part of casting Contingency, but if you duplicate the Contingency's effect through Wish, you haven't done so. You now have Contingency's effect with no secondary spell attached to it. You can't use Wish with spell glyph option of Glyph of Warding for the same reason. Weird and likely not RAI, but RAW.



    False. Choosing the spell's target is part of the spell's casting, not its effect's.
    Except the spell is not cast until the condition is satisfied. At that point you need a target and it is granted by the contingency you made, If I die "cast" revivify on me. It is at this point you become the "target" of the spell cast by contingency which in this case is revivify. Also at this point you fit the requirements of being dead less than a minute.

    Seriously, again, these circumstances are exactly why there is a contingency spell.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    You can't use Wish to duplicate Contingency. Well, you can, but it doesn't work.

    You have to cast the contingent spell as part of casting Contingency, but if you duplicate the Contingency's effect through Wish, you haven't done so. You now have Contingency's effect with no secondary spell attached to it. You can't use Wish with spell glyph option of Glyph of Warding for the same reason. Weird and likely not RAI, but RAW.
    I see what you mean, however im not sure it doesnt work, the spell won't be cast, but the rest of the text remains, and the initial condition of choose a spell with 1 action cast time that can target you has been done. If anything you may get to not spend the slot for your contingent spell.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    This in my opinion is just a ridiculous example as it has no bearing on the conversation.
    Yes, it is an (intentionally) ridiculous example, but it uses exactly the same logic. It's reductio ad absurdum - following the logic through to its extremes and finding a result that is absurd.

    Essentially, I'm trying to point out how the "could theoretically be cast on you at any point in the future if circumstances come out right" interpretation leads to bizarre results.

    You would not try to cast a contingency for an elf if you were human in the first place.
    I didn't ask if you would, I asked if you could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Obviously you are not a lawyer unlike half the folks posting in this thread. They are parsing every phrase, comma and period and decided because of that revivify is an illegal contingent. Thankfully I like my RPG in non legalese so contigent revivify would work in my game. Since it is totally a suboptimal choice.
    My argument is based entirely on one phrase - "a spell that can target you". A single phrase in the wording of the spell we're discussing. My argument is just "Revivify targets something that's dead, so if you're alive, it can't target you."

    The "it's legal" side are talking about using rules in Xanathar's - an expansion that didn't exist when Contingency was printed - that was telling you how to resolve an edge case scenario revolving around things that are literally described as "invalid targets" to argue that anything can be a target of any spell, even if it doesn't come close to the spell's criteria.

    Sorry to say it, but the way I see it, the people arguing you can do it are the ones relying on stretched interpretations and shaky logic.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePolarBear View Post
    Yes, i bet you can start casting a spell without an INVALID target :D
    "Invalid target" isn't even meaningful in that sense Again, you're trying to apply MTG logic.

    D&D spells work differently. You cast a spell by going through its text and doing what it says. Targets are chosen and checked when you hit the appropriate point in the text. And, for the record, I think you can absolutely cast a spell on an "invalid" target, eg. you can cast Phantasmal Force on an undead creature, which it will fail to effect.

    It - is - completely - irrelevant.

    We know that for Contingency the spell has to be a spell that can target you. It doesn't matter yet if when the spell will have an effect it will be able to target you.

    For Contingency to have an effect, the target of Contingency - which includes the spell that is going to stasis since it IS something that you choose to have Contingency affect and it is listed as what Contingency targets - needs to be a spell that can target you. A spell that targets an object doesn't target a creature, even if the creature is going to become an object. It WILL be able to target that specific creature, but as the present it doesn't. Contingency has effect when it is cast. So you need to know at that point if Contingency - and not the spell that is being put into stasis - is going to have an effect. Because if it doesn't "you" are not under Contingency. "You" do not blip to Detect Magic or any other divination effect that will report "you" have a magical effect going on. *Sort of, It depends on how one rules on what the target that suffers no effect is.*
    Again, you're just making up rules (or assuming MTG ones apply.) D&D targeting isn't that complex - we don't have convoluted MTG-style targeting and valid-target rules. Revivify has a range of "touch", ergo it can target you.

    Imagine this situation. I'm playing dead. My buddy, thinking I've died, dashes at me and says "I cast Revivify on them!"

    What happens? They waste their spell slot and their 300 gold, plainly (we can see that this is the case from the Phantasmal Force example above.) But they do cast the spell, and it does target me at touch range. It just doesn't do anything, because its effect can't be resolved when the target that was touched isn't a corpse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    My argument is based entirely on one phrase - "a spell that can target you". A single phrase in the wording of the spell we're discussing. My argument is just "Revivify targets something that's dead, so if you're alive, it can't target you."
    Incorrect. The spell's range is "touch", not "touch dead target." It can 100% target a living creature; it will just fail to have any effect on them.

    Consider if you tried to cast it on a creature who has been dead for too long. You can do so! It just won't do anything. When you try to cast a spell with a target that doesn't fit its description, the spell is cast, but to no effect.

    The "it's legal" side are talking about using rules in Xanathar's - an expansion that didn't exist when Contingency was printed - that was telling you how to resolve an edge case scenario revolving around things that are literally described as "invalid targets" to argue that anything can be a target of any spell, even if it doesn't come close to the spell's criteria.
    Xanathar's tells us how to handle complex targeting questions, which don't come up in the main rules at all.

    Meanwhile, you're just inventing your own homebrewed casting and targeting-restriction rules (based on MTG ones, from what I can tell) whole-cloth. If you want to convince people that these homebrewed targeting and casting rules are actually in the book, you need to point to them - show us where there are rules restricting what you can cast spells on beyond the "target" line.

    Because my reading is that you can 100% cast Revivify on a living target (it will just do nothing), and everything I've seen in the rules seems to support that interpretation; it also seems to reflect how spells are usually handled when eg. someone chooses the wrong sort of target by accident.

    Your argument seems to boil down to "it's an INVALID target, and, per MTG rules, you can't cast spells on an invalid target", which seems baffling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    Say there was a spell that targeted "an Elf within 30 feet." If you were human, could you Contingency that spell? Because it's conceivable that you could die and get Reincarnated as an Elf, but I think if you tried that argument at any real table the rest of the table (including the DM) would give you blank stares at best.
    Blank stares, but then they'd nod and say "sure, if you want, though it probably will do nothing when it goes off."

    As to why, let me flip that around on you. Suppose I saw a hooded stranger and cast that spell on them. As it turns out, they are not an elf. What happens? Do you think any DM would say "no, you can't cast that spell at all; choose a different action?"

    No. In that situation, your spell is cast, and does nothing. You can cast a spell with a target that doesn't fit its description (the reason the clarification in Xanathar's allows this is because it is necessary on account of the game not being MTG and not having perfect knowledge.) It will be cast successfully, though it will generally do nothing. Therefore, I can obviously contingency such a spell on myself.

    Or, another example. Suppose I have a spell that says to cast it on a Good person, or people with some other feature that isn't necessarily obvious and tangible. My character doesn't know if that applies to them. Can they contingency that spell on themselves? If they attempt to do so, do they immediately discover it fails, or do they discover only when the contingency goes off?

    I would argue that, given the above rules, you obviously only discover whether you fit the criteria when the spell goes off (and it is only checked at that point.) Ergo, I can also contingency revivify.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    False. Choosing the spell's target is part of the spell's casting, not its effect's.
    Point me to the place in the rules where you're getting this from, please.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-11-11 at 05:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    For those who think its impossible to cast a spell that requires a target but with no target in sight, go back and read up on the rules of 'ready action to cast spell'. The moment you say 'I ready to Guiding Bolt the first enemy that appears,' the spell slot is spent, therefore the spell is already 'cast', but no effect or target.

    Similarly, Contingency implies that the spell is kind of held back until the trigger, which sounds similar to ready action when you'd normally specify the triggering event.

    I'm pretty sure if Aelyn was my DM, his reply would be, "Error 404: Dead creature not found."

    Play with a human DM guys, not a robot.

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Your argument seems to boil down to "it's an INVALID target, and, per MTG rules, you can't cast spells on an invalid target", which seems baffling.
    I have not mentioned MTG at all in this discussion, and I don't see why you're bringing it in. We're talking about D&D here.

    The reason I think that you have to be a valid target is because, if it doesn't, that line in Contingency saying "Choose a spell... that can target you" is literally meaningless. I prefer to assume explicit restrictions written into the game's text are intended to be relevant.

    My argument is based on what Contingency says, not the generic casting rules.

    As to why, let me flip that around on you. Suppose I saw a hooded stranger and cast that spell on them. As it turns out, they are not an elf. What happens? Do you think any DM would say "no, you can't cast that spell at all; choose a different action?"

    No. In that situation, your spell is cast, and does nothing. You can cast a spell with a target that doesn't fit its description (the reason the clarification in Xanathar's allows this is because it is necessary on account of the game not being MTG and not having perfect knowledge.) It will be cast successfully, though it will generally do nothing. Therefore, I can obviously contingency such a spell on myself.
    No, I would expect them to say "Okay, you cast the spell" while thinking "...but as they can't be targeted by it, the spell does nothing." That's why Contingency wouldn't work with it - you can normally cast a spell even if you can't target what you're trying to target, but Contingency explicitly disallows that.

    Or, another example. Suppose I have a spell that says to cast it on a Good person, or people with some other feature that isn't necessarily obvious and tangible. My character doesn't know if that applies to them. Can they contingency that spell on themselves? If they attempt to do so, do they immediately discover it fails, or do they discover only when the contingency goes off?
    I think you're always aware of whether a spell that you cast on yourself is in effect, aren't you? Not sure of that off the top of my head. At my table, I'd say that you do discover that Contingency has failed/succeeded - it's an unusual side effect of the spell's restrictions that you can use it as a convoluted tool for introspection. I'd probably then check the book after the session to see if it clarifies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrykhor View Post
    I'm pretty sure if Aelyn was my DM, his reply would be, "Error 404: Dead creature not found."

    Play with a human DM guys, not a robot.
    Do you have to be rude about this? There's no need for ad-hom.

    For the record, my response to an attempt to cast Revivify on a lifelike mannequin (for example) would be along the lines of "You feel the magical energy flow through you and into the body, but there's no apparent effect." I might also then give Advantage if the same character then decides to investigate the mannequin, as they have extra information that would help them figure it out.

    If someone tried to cast Contingency-Revivify in my games, the answer would be "You can't - you're alive, so it can't target you." In the same way, if someone tried to cast Contingency-Knock in my game, I'd say "you can't - Knock can't target you."
    Last edited by Aelyn; 2019-11-11 at 09:08 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #115
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzDragon View Post
    Except the spell is not cast until the condition is satisfied. At that point you need a target and it is granted by the contingency you made, If I die "cast" revivify on me. It is at this point you become the "target" of the spell cast by contingency which in this case is revivify. Also at this point you fit the requirements of being dead less than a minute.

    Seriously, again, these circumstances are exactly why there is a contingency spell.
    The spell is *cast* when you cast Contingency. It doesn't *take effect* until the triggering condition come. Contingency's description is very clear on that, not once it mentions the spell is cast when the trigger happens, while it mentions multiple time that the spell "comes into effect" or "takes effect". Compare to spell glyph version of GoW, that says the spell is cast when the glyph is triggered.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    OK, I will say this at my table it works just fine as these situations are exactly what contingency is for.

    I disagree with those that would do it differently. I would however respect their decision if they were the DM.

    Have a wonderful day all.

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    The reason I think that you have to be a valid target is because, if it doesn't, that line in Contingency saying "Choose a spell... that can target you" is literally meaningless. I prefer to assume explicit restrictions written into the game's text are intended to be relevant.
    Absent the Invalid Target rule in XGTE, I could buy this argument.

    Considering the Invalid Target rule in XGTE, I would have to rule per RAW, that while this does effectively make the "that can target you" clause in Contingency meaningless, the Contingency spell description in the PHB was written before XGTE, and so could very well have RAW in it that is expanded/clarified by a later publication.

    Besides, for that matter even as the PHB wording of Contingency goes, why does it only say "that can target you," if what they really mean is "that can target you when cast by you?" Absent that qualification would Revivify meet the requirements?
    A Spell you can cast - yes (presumably)
    Casting time of 1 Action - yes
    Can target you - yes (if you were dead someone else could target you with the Revivify spell, even before the Invalid Target rule even came up - whereas a "Point in space" Target spell would not have worked here)

    In any campaign I DM, I would allow it anyway - a creative use of a 3rd and 6th level spell slot costing 1800 gp in components for a one shot save when killed. Not game breaking at those levels of play.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Obviously you are not a lawyer unlike half the folks posting in this thread. They are parsing every phrase, comma and period and decided because of that revivify is an illegal contingent. Thankfully I like my RPG in non legalese so contigent revivify would work in my game. Since it is totally a suboptimal choice.
    Yeah, I think people need to take a step back from the overanalysis.

    What's the purpose of Contingency? It's meant to essentially store a spell for later, and have that spell benefit the caster if a certain circumstance is met. Having a Revivify trigger if you die seems completely in line with what Contingency is supposed to do.

    Anyway, 95% of the time, you'd be better off having a 5th level Cure Wounds as your contingent spell.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelyn View Post
    Say there was a spell that targeted "an Elf within 30 feet." If you were human, could you Contingency that spell? Because it's conceivable that you could die and get Reincarnated as an Elf, but I think if you tried that argument at any real table the rest of the table (including the DM) would give you blank stares at best.
    This seems to all come down to the interpretation of what this clause means:

    that can target you
    (1) A spell that could theoretically target you at the time the contingency goes into effect

    or

    (2) A spell that could target you as the contingency is established

    For people with interpretation (2), then neither revivify or Empower Elf (the name I'm giving your theoretical spell) would work.

    For people with interpretation (1) I think logically there should be no problem with a human who wants to cast a contingency with this theoretical Empower Elf spell. As you point out, there are multiple game mechanics that could result in a PC changing race from human to elf. So if the test is simply whether a spell could theoretically target the player character in the future then this seems fine.

    For DMs running with interpretation (2), it also seems fine from a game balance perspective. You want to set up a contingency something along the lines of "if I become an Elf and get into combat then I want this Empower Elf spell to trigger"? Fine. Seems like a waste of a highly useful contingency spell on a very low probability scenario but have at it.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: Can you cast contingency revivify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Tempus View Post
    Yeah, I think people need to take a step back from the overanalysis.

    What's the purpose of Contingency? It's meant to essentially store a spell for later, and have that spell benefit the caster if a certain circumstance is met. Having a Revivify trigger if you die seems completely in line with what Contingency is supposed to do.

    Anyway, 95% of the time, you'd be better off having a 5th level Cure Wounds as your contingent spell.
    Or false life which your more likely to have.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

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