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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    The text of this spell says that those who fail the save "fall prone, becoming incapacitated." I've been treating these as distinct; one can be immune to falling prone but still be incapacitated. Is that the correct way to run it?

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or fall prone, becoming Incapacitated and unable to stand up for the Duration.
    By my reading, the spell has three effects:
    • falling prone (when the spell is failed)
    • becoming incapacitated (for the duration)
    • becoming unable to stand (for the duration)


    The wording is a bit funny because the prone condition is itself funny, because it's one of the few conditions a creature can usually enter into and exit willingly. So you can't say "the creature becomes prone for the duration" you have to specify that they are unable to stand for the duration.

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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    By my reading, the spell has three effects:
    • falling prone (when the spell is failed)
    • becoming incapacitated (for the duration)
    • becoming unable to stand (for the duration)


    The wording is a bit funny because the prone condition is itself funny, because it's one of the few conditions a creature can usually enter into and exit willingly. So you can't say "the creature becomes prone for the duration" you have to specify that they are unable to stand for the duration.
    So, you agree that if a creature cannot be made prone/is immune to the prone condition, the spell still incapacitates it, right?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    So, you agree that if a creature cannot be made prone/is immune to the prone condition, the spell still incapacitates it, right?
    Correct. Mostly 'unable to stand up' is redundant with incapacitated but I guess it prevents something else from setting them upright as they can't stay standing while in the fit of laughter.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    So, you agree that if a creature cannot be made prone/is immune to the prone condition, the spell still incapacitates it, right?
    Yes, I would say so.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Correct. Mostly 'unable to stand up' is redundant with incapacitated.
    In this case, what tends to happen is the spell goes into the effect and the enemy is floored and laughing. The caster's allies pile on and start swinging at him, giving him extra chances to save, so he eventually does, and so while he can now stand up, he's still prone until his turn comes around, so the spellcasters allies still have advantage wailing on him for a bit.

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    micahaphone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    In my guess at the intended reading of the spell, they're incapacitated by the laughter, not by hitting the ground. I think that makes sense.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    In this case, what tends to happen is the spell goes into the effect and the enemy is floored and laughing. The caster's allies pile on and start swinging at him, giving him extra chances to save, so he eventually does, and so while he can now stand up, he's still prone until his turn comes around, so the spellcasters allies still have advantage wailing on him for a bit.
    True or used as a hard CC for a target but the unable to stand is redundant because they can't take any action until they pass a save. Just an odd addition of text IMO.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    True or used as a hard CC for a target but the unable to stand is redundant because they can't take any action until they pass a save. Just an odd addition of text IMO.
    Moving is not an action, and incapacitated does not bring your speed down to 0. The target of the spell can actually crawl if it wants too (which I hadn't realized until now).

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    Moving is not an action, and incapacitated does not bring your speed down to 0. The target of the spell can actually crawl if it wants too (which I hadn't realized until now).
    I figured someone was gonna to bring it up. Yes technically you can still move while incapacitated but that is pretty cheesey and most people would assume you can't move or even better make moving difficult and disadvantage on saves to break the THL
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I figured someone was gonna to bring it up. Yes technically you can still move while incapacitated but that is pretty cheesey and most people would assume you can't move or even better make moving difficult and disadvantage on saves to break the THL
    Why is it cheesy? Compare it with hypnotic pattern, which says that you are incapacitated AND that you can't move.

    Looks to me as if the spell is working as intended. It's a first level spell, no need to make it stronger than it is. Heck, even the "fluff" of it works with being able to crawl.
    Last edited by diplomancer; 2019-11-09 at 06:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    Why is it cheesy? Compare it with hypnotic pattern, which says that you are incapacitated AND that you can't move.

    Looks to me as if the spell is working as intended. It's a first level spell, no need to make it stronger than it is. Heck, even the "fluff" of it works with being able to crawl.
    Then we have modify memory that doesn't so we have the situation of a blind charmed target running around because suddenly they can't see or touch anything.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Correct. Mostly 'unable to stand up' is redundant with incapacitated but I guess it prevents something else from setting them upright as they can't stay standing while in the fit of laughter.
    There's no redundancy. Unable to stand up prevents them from standing up. Incapacitated only prevents actions, not movement.
    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    Moving is not an action, and incapacitated does not bring your speed down to 0. The target of the spell can actually crawl if it wants too (which I hadn't realized until now).
    I swear I've explicitly mentioned this before.
    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I figured someone was gonna to bring it up. Yes technically you can still move while incapacitated but that is pretty cheesey and most people would assume you can't move or even better make moving difficult and disadvantage on saves to break the THL
    It just means the victim can ROTFLOL. I think it makes the spell funnier and more horrible.

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    Default Re: Tasha's Hideous Laughter: Incapacitation independent of or dependent on Prone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    There's no redundancy. Unable to stand up prevents them from standing up. Incapacitated only prevents actions, not movement.
    To add to this, note that all the "Incapacitated but worse" conditions like Unconscious/Paralyzed/Petrified state that the affected creature "...is incapacitated (see the condition) and can't move or speak...", which (also) implies that Incapacitation alone does not prevent a creature from moving or speaking.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.

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