The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Nope, I'm fully serious. Savage Attacks is a minor damage boost to 5% of your attacks; Relentless Endurance is basically 1/long rest Healing Word. (It would be considerably better if it prevented insta-kills, but it explicitly doesn't.)

    Aggressive, on the other hand, is a bonus action mobility boost which is applicable in close to 100% of hostile situations, at least if you're a melee-oriented Str fighter like the Orc stereotype. Spend fewer rounds Dashing and more rounds Attacking. It even has defensive benefits by allowing you to e.g. strafe more easily: spend your Aggressive movement moving towards the enemy, hit them a few times, then move away with your regular movement, taking only an opportunity attack in return (depending on relative movement rates, e.g. w/ Barbarian Fast Movement or Longstrider).

    Orc is still on the weak side because there are plenty of other ways to get even more flexible bonus actions, but half-orc is weaker still.
    Half-Orc has abilities at least useable with non-melee characters, though I suppose the value of that is subjective.

    In your opinion, which races make better melee characters?
    Last edited by Luccan; 2019-11-12 at 07:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
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    Spoiler: Build Contests
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    E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing


  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Half-Orc has abilities at least useable with non-melee characters, though I suppose the value of that is subjective.

    In your opinion, which races make better melee characters?
    Is the question which is better in melee, orc or half-orc? In the kinds of games I run, where encounter distances are based off of real-world distances, clearly the orc is better than the half orc. Again, fewer rounds Dashing = more rounds attacking = more likely to be relevant in any given encounter. If I were going to play e.g. a Barbarian, Orc would be one of the top contenders for my race choice, because a Barbarian who's chucking javelins from long range is a sad Barbarian.

    In other games? Hard to say. I don't play 5E as fanatically as many, but in addition to the games I run, I've played under a handful (five or so?) other local DMs, and I don't remember seeing any campaigns where mobile tactics wouldn't have be useful, although there certainly are parties who aren't equipped to use them (because it requires cooperation). In none of the campaigns that I've seen would a half-orc be more valuable than an orc for a melee warrior.

    Spoiler: Other races
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    Edit: oh, were you asking which races make better melee characters than half-orcs and orcs? Humans are obviously a top contender because of feats like HAM/PAM/GWM. Goblin Moon Druids are rather amusing, although they're not restricted purely to melee. Half-elves wind up being good Paladins (Padlocks/Paladorcs/Paladorlocks/etc.) and therefore good tanks. And obviously Shepherd Druids are terrific at vicarious melee. Melee is all about bringing a knife to a gunfight so even the "best" melee character had better be good at other things too besides melee, which means that my favorite "melee characters" tend to be things like human wizard tanks (HAM Enchanter X/Forge Cleric 1), but if I for some reason want to play a straight melee Barbarian, orcs and GWM humans would have to be my top picks.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-11-12 at 07:53 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    Worse how? They get a floating +1 rather than a fixed and they will always be +1 better in AC than what the equivalent dwarf would be. Is it the darkvision part that's a problem?
    Well theres also all those proficiencies and the possibility of +1hp/lvl, and thats not to mention how a +2 str is likely much more useful than a floating +1.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by chainer1216 View Post
    Well theres also all those proficiencies and the possibility of +1hp/lvl, and thats not to mention how a +2 str is likely much more useful than a floating +1.
    It's not going to make that much of a difference in the long run and a floating +1 is also significantly better for non strength based classes than a +2 str.

    I much prefer the fact that we can have a debate on how the warforged is comparable to other races rather than simply superior.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Half-Orc has abilities at least useable with non-melee characters, though I suppose the value of that is subjective.

    In your opinion, which races make better melee characters?
    Just because the aggressive trait requires you use your bonus action to move toward an enemy, it imposes no such requirement on your normal movement. So you can absolutely use the ability to kite more effectively: you can begin your turn 30 feet outside the range of your spells or weapons, use a bonus action to move 30 feet closer, make your ranged attack or cast your spell, then move 30 feet back with your regular movement. This allows an orc to stay further back from combat while still contributing.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2019-11-12 at 08:54 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    It's not going to make that much of a difference in the long run and a floating +1 is also significantly better for non strength based classes than a +2 str.

    I much prefer the fact that we can have a debate on how the warforged is comparable to other races rather than simply superior.
    You might think we can but i wholeheartedly disagree, to me warforged are now an unfinished skeleton of a race that arent worth playing.


    Its the champion fighter of races, technically playable but bland as hell and mechanically worse than all the other options.
    Last edited by chainer1216; 2019-11-12 at 09:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by chainer1216 View Post
    You might think we can but i wholeheartedly disagree, to me warforged are now an unfinished skeleton of a race that arent worth playing.


    Its the champion fighter of races, technically playable but bland as hell and mechanically worse than all the other options.
    They still match/beat others in flat AC which is hardly a small boon. A lv 1 warforged fighter is sitting at 20 AC all day even when they sleep.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

    All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by chainer1216 View Post
    You might think we can but i wholeheartedly disagree, to me warforged are now an unfinished skeleton of a race that arent worth playing.


    Its the champion fighter of races, technically playable but bland as hell and mechanically worse than all the other options.
    I thought we were talking about Warforged here, not Standard Human.

    Your opinion on them now is noted, although I'm going to echo your statement with a hearty "I disagree". My opinion is that they're very much worth playing (+2 Con by itself lends enough of a boost to race that they can be considered for almost any class) and you're certainly not lacking in any features, at least not enough to be called the mechanically worst race option.
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2019-11-12 at 10:37 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    We get a flip through the book here:


    I didn't bother trying to pause and get a full read on the crunch, but my major takeaways:
    - I love the news stories peppered throughout the book, very flavourful.
    - Art is a mix of reused stuff and new, but all very pretty
    - The group patron section is beefier than anticipated, of the 70 pages in Chapter 1 on character creation, about half of it is on having a group patron.
    - The DM section is also quite impressive, there are some neat maps

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Nope, I'm fully serious. Savage Attacks is a minor damage boost to 5% of your attacks; Relentless Endurance is basically 1/long rest Healing Word. (It would be considerably better if it prevented insta-kills, but it explicitly doesn't.)

    Aggressive, on the other hand, is a bonus action mobility boost which is applicable in close to 100% of hostile situations, at least if you're a melee-oriented Str fighter like the Orc stereotype. Spend fewer rounds Dashing and more rounds Attacking. It even has defensive benefits by allowing you to e.g. strafe more easily: spend your Aggressive movement moving towards the enemy, hit them a few times, then move away with your regular movement, taking only an opportunity attack in return (depending on relative movement rates, e.g. w/ Barbarian Fast Movement or Longstrider).

    Orc is still on the weak side because there are plenty of other ways to get even more flexible bonus actions, but half-orc is weaker still.
    As a routine player of Half-Orcs I can understand where you're coming from. Relentless Endurance isn't useful until you need it and Savage Attacks really only puts a cherry on top of your crit unless you're doing some high level Barbarian Battleaxe thing. I will say though that Relentless Endurance has absolutely saved my hide a couple of times, and was especially useful at level 1 in the Adventure's League campaign I was in.

    That being said I won't knock Aggressive; more mobility is always good for a melee character. I was pretty disappointed we got Savage Fury over the Aggressive feat for Half-Orcs in Xanathar's if only because Orcs and Half-Orcs don't seem to have any abilities that overlap.

    As for the Warforged armor debate I'm just glad that the armor can't be removed against your will. For me the appeal of the race was not having any "down" time. With not needing to breathe, sleep eat or be disarmored all I need to do is to make my Warforged an Eldritch Knight for Weapon Bond and I can have a character that doesn't get disabled from being able to fight.
    Last edited by Makorel; 2019-11-13 at 12:27 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by chainer1216 View Post
    Well theres also all those proficiencies and the possibility of +1hp/lvl, and thats not to mention how a +2 str is likely much more useful than a floating +1.
    But dwarves are slow (25' speed) and you can put the Warforged floating +1 in Dex or Cha to support archery. Plus the armor boost.

    The dwarf is almost, but not quite, a worse Warforged.

    My powergamer instincts are only mildly interested in Warforged, but my RP instincts would enjoy being a Warforged in a steampunk setting, and that puts Warforged in a pretty nice position: interesting but not overpowered. Good design choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorel View Post
    As a routine player of Half-Orcs I can understand where you're coming from. Relentless Endurance isn't useful until you need it and Savage Attacks really only puts a cherry on top of your crit unless you're doing some high level Barbarian Battleaxe thing. I will say though that Relentless Endurance has absolutely saved my hide a couple of times, and was especially useful at level 1 in the Adventure's League campaign I was in.
    Yeah, I saw a 3rd level Half Orc fighter survive a point-blank blast of dragon fire from an Adult Red, which impressed the dragon so much that he made the fighter one of his deputies. But he came within 3 HP of being vaporized instead. I wouldn't expect to see that kind of thing very often, which is why it's a good story. In the more usual case, Healing Word is as useful, unless the DM is using negative HP rules (which I actually do, so maybe I'm underestimating half-orcs--but usually when I see PCs die it is due to bad decisions and bad luck, and usually in a way such that Relentless Endurance wouldn't help, e.g. getting paralyzed while surrounded).
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-11-13 at 01:11 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Gonna do the race and Dragonmarks previews, though spoilered for your consideration. Do note that this is the Roll20 content, so it might change most likely.

    Spoiler: Changeling
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    First and foremost, AWESOME PIC. Really, kudos to whoever made the art. Changelings ain't my faves, but they look the part.

    • +2 Cha, +1 anything.
    • Gain proficiency with two of the following: Deception, Insight, Intimidation and Persuasion.
    • Speak Common and 2 languages of your choice.
    • Shapechanger, which works mostly like Disguise Self but as a real transformation.


    One thing they lost from WGtE is Unsettling Visage. It's a shame, since it's not exactly the most potent ability, but it was fun and flavorful. Probably a racial feat?


    Spoiler: Kalashtar
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    One thing I miss from Kalashtar is their weird fetish for headwear. This kalashtar lady lacks pimp headbands. Where are the pimp headbands!?

    • +2 Wis, +1 Cha. As mentioned, they're...odd, not having an Int score, but otherwise it makes sense; they're super wise, and also meant to be charismatic.
    • Can speak Common and Quori, plus a language of their choice.
    • Advantage on Wisdom saving throws and resistance to psychic damage. This is pretty cool, since those are the main stats that affect...oh wait, no advantage on INTELLIGENCE saves. So Intellect Devourers, those little pesky walking brains that can be a menace to an unprepared party, still can affect them. Also - Synaptic Static can still be a threat to them, even though they halve psychic damage.
    • Mind Link, allowing you to speak telepathically equal to (10 x level, up to 200 ft.), and you can give that power to a creature of your choice so it can answer to you. You can only communicate with creatures that can understand at least one language, though you don't need to SHARE that language.
    • No trance like Elves, but they are immune to spells that require dreaming. They are still vulnerable to Sleep spells. I repeat; they are STILL vulnerable to Sleep spells.


    In short: they get a minor focus on Charisma, but lose the free skill proficiency advantage they got. On the other hand, Mind Meld has turned into the ultimate communications ability, allowing you to essentially spread out commands from your leader to the rest of your party. I'd say this is the race with the least changes.


    Spoiler: Shifter
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    Oh, goodness, that image is hideous! I'll take Ms. Mel Gibson with tits and sideburns any time of the day. Any. Time. *shudders*

    • NO base ability score increase. Yes, I'm kidding you not. Shifters do NOT get a base ability score increase like other races do. This probably means the subraces get all the ability score increases.
    • Darkvision
    • Shifting, which is their key trait. You activate it as a bonus action, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you dismiss it. You can use it 1/short or long rest. The base feature is temporary HP equal to your level + your Constitution modifier, so you become VERY beefy. Your shifting varies depending on your race, which was exactly how shifters operated originally.


    As mentioned, Shifters have subraces - four, at that. Two of them are iconic (Beasthide and Longtooth), the others are known but named differently (Swiftstride as the iconic Longrunner, and Wildhunt as the...well, I think it was the Dream-whatever shifter?) Here are the four subraces:

    Spoiler: Beasthide
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    • +2 Con, +1 Str.
    • Proficiency in Athletics
    • When shifting, you get +1d6 additional temporary HP, and +1 to AC.


    These are the tanky shifters, probably related to the Bear. They're tough to kill, and when shifting, they're even TOUGHER to kill. Perfect for that Barbarian, or tanky Fighter like a Cavalier, that needs to survive one more hit.


    Spoiler: Longtooth
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    • +2 Str, +1 Dex
    • Proficiency in Intimidation
    • While shifting, you can make an Unarmed Strike as a bonus action, dealing 1d6 + Strength worth of piercing damage.


    An odd choice for Monks, but do note that they get to use Unarmed Strikes, so you can allow yourself to bite while shifting. Otherwise, it's perfect for any class that wants an extra attack. Curiously enough, if you don't mind the lack of Charisma or Constitution, they make interesting Paladins, as their better Unarmed Strike damage gains the benefit of Improved Divine Smite and, if you have it, Divine Favor.


    Spoiler: Swiftstride
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    • +2 Dex, +1 Cha
    • Proficiency in Acrobatics
    • While shifted, your walking speed increases by 10 ft., and you can use your reaction to move away 10 ft. from you when a creature ends its move within 5 ft. of you, without causing OAs.


    High Dex? Check. Proficiency in Acrobatics, arguably one of the rarest proficiencies to get? Check. Better movement speed while shifting? Check. This makes for a great anything - a great Bard, a great Sorcerer, a great Warlock, even a great Paladin if you think about it.


    Spoiler: Wildhunt
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    • +2 Wis, +1 Dex
    • Proficiency in Survival
    • While shifting, gain advantage on Wisdom checks, and no creature can make attack rolls with advantage against you within 30 ft., unless incapacitated.


    Again, amazing for Rangers and Monks, because it deals with the scores they most likely need. That ability to just negate advantage is sweet. Also - sweet Druids.


    In short, you get almost four different races in one. Either you get a tanky Bear, a savage Wolf, a fast Cheetah or an observant Owl. Shifters are one of my favorite races, and they're pretty decent if you think about it. That said, Shifters do get a bit of a nerf, in that they aren't automatically proficient with Perception, and both Swiftstride and Wildhunt Shifters lose some class features.


    Spoiler: Warforged
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    Sleek, slim Terminators. Yep. No wonder Warforged are the face of the Eberron campaign setting.

    • +2 Con, +1 any score. This is pretty awesome, since they can be just about anything, if only because Constitution is such a valuable score.
    • Free skill proficiency and tool proficiency. So, again, as mentioned before, all Warforged are Envoys, ,but without the integrated toolkit. Still, it's pretty cool, since they feel like they can be customized as you like.
    • One free language of your choice. Now, THIS is new, since Warforged usually lacked the ability to speak any other language than Common, and that was during the time where high Intelligence gave you bonus languages.
    • Constructed Resilience. Alright, this is difficult to explain, but I'll try to make it easy: you have the same advantages and resistances to poison as dwarves, plus the immunity to magical sleep of elves, plus immunity to disease, and you don't need to eat, drink or breathe. So, you're pretty much implacable. Emphasis on pretty much, because...
    • Sentry's Rest means you need to spend at least 6 hours inert and motionless when taking a long rest. So, while you don't sleep at all (you're not unconscious as a sleeping character would), you still need to do nothing for those six hours. A far cry from Coffeelocks.
    • Integrated Protection, arguably the most controversial change they did. As mentioned, instead of a modular protection, you get a simple +1 to AC, and you can integrate armor that you're proficient with. That said, you don't get better mobility or the ability to ignore certain traits of armor, so you still get disadvantage on Stealth checks with most medium or heavy armor, and you still need Str 13 to wear chain mail, or Str 15 to wear heavier armor. One thing, though, is that you can rest while wearing armor, which is important because most people don't recall that sleeping with heavy armor doesn't allow you to recover from exhaustion.


    Before saying anything: Integrated Protection is a rollback to the original version of the Warforged, giving you +1 to AC. This is great for most classes, including Barbarians and Monks, since they can still take advantage of their class features and get better armor in exchange. What I do miss is the loss of subrace features. After Eberron was released, some variant Warforged were released, such as the Psiforged (a Warforged with "innate" psionic potential) and the Warforged Scout (all the benefits of the Warforged in a smaller, sleeker package!). Warforged Juggernauts weren't a variant of the race, but rather a way to make Warforged more like constructs, and the options offered in WGtE made them pretty awesome. I think the lack of a 'vanilla' Warforged killed things a little, so they decided to go as vanilla as possible.


    Before going with the Dragonmarks, I have to mention one little thing: Spells of the Mark. This is what jaappleton was speaking about. If you have Spellcasting OR Pact Magic, you add these spells to your list. Arguably, it works like how Warlocks get spells, so don't get too happy with it. They also follow the same format: two spells for every level up to 4th, then one 5th level spell. No less, no more.

    Spoiler: Mark of Detection Half-Elf
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    Can you SMEEEELLLLLL...what poison...is in the cooking... *plays The Rock WWE theme*

    • +2 Wisdom, +1 any. Basically replaces your scores. Do note this.
    • Darkvision, Fey Ancestry remain, but Skill Versatility is replaced with all they get from this "subrace".
    • +1d4 on Intelligence (Investigation) or Wisdom (Insight) checks. So, they keep the Inspiration dice mechanic, but only to two skills related to the mark.
    • Can cast Detect Magic and Detect Poison 1/long rest, and then See Invisibility 1/long rest at 3rd level. Spellcasting ability is Int, and you don't need Material Components for that.


    Spoiler: Mark of Detection Spells
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    • 1st: Detect Evil and Good, Detect Poison and Disease
    • 2nd: Detect Thoughts, Find Traps
    • 3rd: Clairvoyance, Nondetection
    • 4th: Arcane Eye, Divination
    • 5th: Legend Lore



    Overall, a great increase from the original version, since they keep their skill with languages and the ability score improvements are much better.


    Spoiler: Mark of Finding Half-Orc
    Show
    Yup, they can find Dragonshards, alright.

    • +2 Wis, +1 Con. Makes them great Clerics, Druids, Rangers and Monks. Who would have thought of it?
    • +1d4 on Wisdom (Perception or Survival) checks
    • Can cast Hunter's Mark 1/long rest, and eventually Locate Object 1/long rest. You read that right. HUNTER'S. MARK.
    • They can speak Common and...Goblin? Don't ask.


    Spoiler: Mark of Finding Spells
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    • 1st: Faerie Fire, Longstrider
    • 2nd: Locate Animals or Plants, Locate Object
    • 3rd: Clairvoyance, Speak with Plants
    • 4th: Divination, Locate Creature
    • 5th: Commune with Nature.


    So they lose Imprint Prey (which was kinda like a souped-up Favored Enemy, letting you essentially sense your targeted quarry by getting twice the result from your d4, plus a special sense ability when you were very close, allowing you to ignore half cover and invisibility), but they get one use of free Hunter's Mark. Pretty fair trade, though Half-Orcs also lose their few racial traits. Then again, judging by the conversations, YMMV with Half-Orcs.

    (Do note that Koebel skipped on the Human version, but as with the original incarnation, both Humans and Half-Orcs get the same Mark, so most likely they get the same benefits. I say "most likely" because something will differ: probably, Half-Orcs get Darkvision and Humans won't, but their ability scores will be different. Again, this is from the preview, so take it with a grain of salt.)


    Spoiler: Mark of Handling Human
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    I choose you! Magebred Owlbear!

    • +2 Wis, +1 any score
    • +1d4 on Wisdom (Animal Handling) or Intelligence (Nature) checks
    • Animal Friendship and Speak with Animals 1/SHORT or long rest, using Wis as your score. Note that this is different from other marks, which only get these benefits per LONG rest only.
    • At 3rd level, you can target beasts or monstrosities with either Animal Friendship or Speak with Animals. Do note that you don't need to use your own versions.


    Spoiler: Mark of Handling Spells
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    • 1st: Animal Friendship, Speak with Animals (i.e., you get the spells you can cast for free, so that your 3rd level ability remains useful)
    • 2nd: Beast Sense, Calm Emotions
    • 3rd: Beacon of Hope (!?), Conjure Animals (!!)
    • 4th: Aura of Life, Dominate Beast
    • 5th: Awaken


    Roughly equal compared to the WGtE version, replacing Expert Handling which worked wonders with animal companions and mounts for Speak with Animals, plus the new spells. Do note that they get a summoning spell as part of their added spell list. That said, unless you're playing a Cleric, you won't get much mileage out of this, because these are spells that Druids have (other than Beacon of Hope and Aura of Life), and Rangers won't get much use of this either.


    Spoiler: Mark of Healing Halfling
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    I'm not sure if I've seen this art before, but to be honest - it's super awesome. You see a horrifying monster at the distance, and the halfling is just doing his job, all cocky and everything... Yup, hold the fort guys; the battle may yet be won!

    • +2 Dex, +1 Wis. Again, great for Rangers and Monks.
    • +1d4 on Wisdom (Medicine) checks or any ability check when using a herbalism kit.
    • Cure Wounds 1/long rest, and eventually Lesser Restoration 1/long rest, using Wis as your spellcasting ability.


    Spoiler: Mark of Healing Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Cure Wounds, Healing Word
    • 2nd: Lesser Restoration, Prayer of Healing
    • 3rd: Aura of Vitality (!!!!!), Mass Healing Word
    • 4th: Aura of Purity, Aura of Life
    • 5th: Greater Restoration


    As Halflings, they keep Brave, Halfling Nimbleness and Lucky. As Dragonmarks go, this one has the best spell list, hands down. You'd have thought, "oh, Clerics get most of these spells"...then you see Aura of Vitality. Oh boy, Life Clerics...wait, but what about Circle of Shepherd Druids!? They actually get Prayer of Healing AND Mass Healing Word, AND Aura of Vitality. If I wanted to see something any more vomit-inducing than a Life Cleric 2/Shepherd Druid 18 doing supercharged bonus action heals and extraordinary AoE bonus action heals, I would have chain-gated Solars. They lost their cool Healing Touch feature (spend one HD, restore an ally by that amount 1/short or long rest), but this is the mark that got the most brutal buffs. And you don't even need the UA to get those...


    Spoiler: Mark of Hospitality Halfling
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    Uh...wha!? That's the least representative art I've seen. So, the halfling is in full armor, showing a beer gut, happy...but nothing else? Boy, that was a missed opportunity...

    • +2 Dex, +1 Cha. Basically, same as Lightfoots.
    • +1d4 on Charisma (Persuasion) checks and ability checks involving brewer's supplies or cook's utensils.
    • Prestidigitation for free, Purify Food and Drink and Unseen Servants 1/long rest, using Cha as your spellcasting ability.


    Spoiler: Mark of Hospitality Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Goodberry, Sleep
    • 2nd: Aid, Calm Emotions
    • 3rd: Create Food and Water, Leomund's Tiny Hut
    • 4th: Aura of Purity, Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum
    • 5th: Hallow


    Well, it's...a thing? I'll be honest; I never was attracted to the Mark of Hospitality, but this version is arguably better than any other ever presented. For one, it has a good cantrip and a good spell accessible, it has an interesting spell list containing everything you need to make your adventuring life more pleasant... Thing is, I see this as a wonderful ability to have on an NPC, not a PC. With Brave, Lucky and Halfling Nimbleness, you could have the equivalent of the son of Nodwick and Piffany! (Add the strength of a henchmen, and they'd be the ultimate henchmen!) ...Oh, I see it now!


    Spoiler: Mark of Making Human
    Show
    Aww, they're reusing old art once again? FYI, the art is from the Dragonmarked splat from 3.5; the guy with the Warforged behind as a bodyguard.

    • +2 Int, +1 any score.
    • +1d4 with Arcana or any check involving artisan's tools.
    • Gain proficiency with one artisan's tool of your choice.
    • Know the Mending cantrip, and can use Magic Weapon 1/long rest, BUT it lasts for 1 hour and requires no concentration. Int for spellcasting ability.


    Spoiler: Mark of Making Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Identify, Tenser's Floating Disk
    • 2nd: Continual Flame, Magic Weapon
    • 3rd: Conjure Barrage, Elemental Weapon
    • 4th: Fabricate, Stone Shape
    • 5th: Creation


    Wait, Magic Weapon without Concentration!? Well...it's basically the same as the original WGtE class feature, except they lose the ability to enchant armor. Yup. You also no longer get any Wizard cantrip you want, BTW. Still, it's a pretty fair amount of features, good for any Artificer, or Wizard, or even Eldritch Knight Fighter.


    Spoiler: Mark of Passage Human
    Show
    Oh look, D&D is now playing with portals! Also: tell me that's not Commoner Chell.

    • +2 Dex, +1 any. Curious that humans usually get +1 to any score.
    • Speed increase to 35 ft. So...basically the same as Wood Elves?
    • +1d4 on all Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks and any ability checks to maneuver land vehicles.
    • Misty Step 1/long rest, with DEXTERITY as your spellcasting ability. Oh boy...reminds me of the Jaunter. Good times.


    Spoiler: Mark of Passage Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Expeditious Retreat, Jump
    • 2nd: Misty Step, Pass without Trace
    • 3rd; Blink, Phantom Steed
    • 4th: Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement
    • 5th: Teleportation Circle


    This version is DRASTICALLY different. No longer you get a free semi-Dimension Door, your speed is nerfed to 35 ft. instead of 40 ft., lost the ability to ignore difficult terrain while Dashing...overall, it feels more like a nerf than a buff, but the spells you get are pretty thematic. One key thing is that, if you're a caster, no matter what kind, you can create permanent Teleportation Circles. Still...not very impressed. Feel kinda disappointed by the nerf, IMO.


    Spoiler: Mark of Scribing Gnomes
    Show
    OBJECTION! Witness the majesty of the gnome writer known only as Phelonious...the Writer! TAKE THAT! (No, seriously, the art is basically a gnome wizard, with a crystal ball, channeling Phoenix Wright.)

    • +2 Int, 1 Cha. Oh boy, just the one specific combination of features that makes no sense virtually anywhere!
    • +1d4 on Intelligence (History) checks or ability checks using calligrapher's supplies.
    • Message for free, and Comprehend Languages 1/long rest; eventually, you can cast Magic Mouth 1/long rest at 3rd level, using Int as your spellcating ability.


    Spoiler: Mark of Scribing Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Comprehend Languages, Illusionary Script
    • Animal Messenger, Silence
    • Sending, Tongues
    • Arcane Eye, Confusion
    • Dream


    They keep Gnome Cunning and Darkvision, as per the base race, but they replaced the ability to work with forgery kits and the extra language for...Motor Mouth? Seriously? (Oh, and the spells; they DO get Silence and Confusion as free spells, though.) Arguably, it's the race that has the least synergy with anything, because Wizards already get most of these spells, and...well, you *could* make a weird Artificer...


    Spoiler: Mark of Sentinel Human
    Show
    Uhh...it's...decent art? To be honest, it's not like the amazing art for the Changeling (or the Goblin; that art is fun as heck), but it helps show how a Blademark would look like. Has the right mark, looks like a warrior, but nothing else.

    • +2 Con, +1 Wis. Yes - the only Human-based Dragonmark with fixed ability scores. Weirdly enough, CONSTITUTION gets the bigger buff, even though Sentinels were pretty heavy on Wisdom.
    • +1d4 on Wisdom (Insight or Perception) checks.
    • Shield 1/long rest, using Wis as your spellcasting ability.
    • 1/long rest, you get exactly what the Oath of the Crown Paladin gets at 7th level (swap places, you get the full brunt of the attack), except it ONLY applies to Attack rolls.


    Spoiler: Mark of Sentinel Spells
    Show

    • 1st: Compelled Duel, Shield of Faith
    • 2nd: Warding Bond, Zone of Truth
    • 3rd: Counterspell, Protection from Energy
    • 4th: Death Ward, Guardian of Faith
    • 5th: Bigby's hand


    Hoo, boy - and I thought Mark of Passage got it hard. Sentinel got nerfed HARD. See, originally, they added that little d4 to all Initiative checks, which was AWESOME. And of course, relatively OP. Furthermore, they got Blade Ward for free, Shield 1/SHORT or Long rest, and Vigilant Guardian was essentially an action you took to designate someone as your ward, giving you the Oath of the Crown 7th level ability BESIDES advantage on Wisdom (Insight or Perception) checks to sense your ward. As a Fighter, I seriously doubt you'd get this, but I could still see it as a Paladin; just...not a Crown Paladin, which already suffered with the UA, only to get gutted mercilessly with this. A Redemption Paladin, with Mark of Sentinel on top, gets nearly ALL the spells you want from Oath of the Crown, PLUS some more (Bigby's Hand being one), while having better subclass features. However, the +1 to Wis is...well, fair, but not invaluable, considering they don't use Wisdom for anything. You know who gets a fun boost from this? Rangers. No, seriously. Rangers. They get some good defensive spells, two sweet trap spells on Guardian of Faith and Bigby's Hand, and a bonus to Wisdom and the ever-useful Constitution. But yeah. Sheesh.


    Spoiler: Mark of Shadow Elf
    Show
    Again, repeating the art? Same as with the Mark of Making, the illustration they use is from the cover of Dragonmarked.

    • +2 Dex, +1 Cha.
    • +1d4 to Charisma (Performance) or Dexterity (Stealth) checks
    • Minor Illusion cantrip for free, and eventually Invisibility 1/long rest at 3rd level afterwards, using Cha as your spellcasting ability.


    Spoiler: Mark of Shadow spells
    Show
    • 1st: Disguise Self, Silent Image
    • 2nd: Darkness, Pass without Trace
    • 3rd: Clairvoyance, Major Image
    • 4th: Greater Invisibility, Hallucinatory Terrain
    • 5th: Mislead


    Pretty huge changes, dropping the ability to use Hide as a bonus action and the free proficiency with a musical instrument or the Performance skill for 1/LR Invisibility and the new spells. Do note that Mark of Shadow Elves don't get Invisibility on their spell list, if they have one, instead getting eventual Greater Invisibility. They make pretty decent Warlocks, if you think about it, but the choice of spells makes them relatively poor Bards.


    Spoiler: Mark of the Storm Half-Elf
    Show
    So...you're a Wizard. Skinny, elvish, with a lustrous beard and MONSTROUS HANDS. Seriously; have you seen the claws on this guy!? Those things can't qualify as nails!

    • +2 Cha, +1 Dex.
    • +1d4 to Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks or navigator's tools
    • Resistance to lightning damage. Yep. Full-on resistance.
    • Gust cantrip for free, and Gust of Wind 1/long rest, using Cha as your spellcasting ability.


    Spoiler: Mark of Storm Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Feather Fall, Fog Cloud
    • 2nd: Gust of Wind, Levitate
    • 3rd: Sleet Storm, Wind Wall
    • 4th: Conjure Minor Elemental, Control Water
    • 5th: Conjure Elemental


    Props to the dev team for keeping the theme real. Mark of Storm wasn't meant to provide spells that dealt damage, but instead spells that dealt with the elements related to a storm: lightning, wind and...water, yeah. So, they get a lot of spells related to that, which are pretty useful and spread out - minor crowd control, utility spells, and two summoning spells that can conjure just about ANY elemental. They lose the swim speed, though; IMO, it's...well, it's a loss, but nothing very important to lose anyways.


    Spoiler: Mark of Warding Dwarf
    Show
    Oh, boy. You don't see art of a dwarf. You see art of a vault. Oh, by the Silver Flame!

    • +2 Con, +1 Int. Hey, a dwarf can finally make a decent Int caster! Like...an Artificer! Or a Wizard. Or an Eldritch Knight Fighter! Or an Arcane Trickster Rogue!
    • +1d4 on all Intelligence (Investigation) checks and ability checks using thieves' tools
    • Alarm and Mage Armor 1/long rest, and eventually Arcane Lock 1/long rest, using Int as your spellcasting ability. (Why not Constitution...?)


    Spoiler: Mark of Warding Spells
    Show
    • 1st: Alarm, Armor of Agathys (WTF!?)
    • 2nd: Arcane Lock, Knock (hehe!)
    • 3rd: Glyph of Warding, Magic Circle
    • 4th: Leomund's Secret Chest, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
    • 5th: Antilife Shell


    You keep the free proficiency with either smith's tools or brewer's supplies, Darkvision, the resistances and Stonecunning, since this counts as a subrace. That said - it's pretty byzantine to see a Mark of Warding Dwarf, since they are suited to various specific classes; as Artificers or Rogues, they can exploit this a little bit better, allowing them to get spells that they might not otherwise have, and the theme's there. I'll admit I'm impressed by Armor of Agathys, since I honestly thought that'd be a Mark of Sentinel spell. Plus, you get free Mage Armor, which saves you at least one spell slot.


    After all that infodump, I can say: it's a mixed bag. Warforged are no longer as modular, the Marks of Passage and Sentinel got nerfed (the latter almost to oblivion), the Mark of Healing is bonkers, but for the most part, they are pretty similar to the WGtE incarnation. If I'd change anything, ti'd be:

    • Give Changelings back their Unsettling Visage reaction. It was cool, and allowed them to use their main features effectively.
    • Make Warforged ignore some of the armor penalties with Integrated Protection. Like...maybe have a Warforged ignore disadvantage on Stealth checks while wearing armor, since your body itself partially covers and mutes the movable armor pieces.
    • Have some Dragonmark spells you can cast be rechargeable on a Short Rest. For example: Shield as 1/long rest is painful, because you'll rarely use it at all, ever. If it were Shield 1/short rest, it can be more palatable to use. Same for Misty Step, and most reaction-based spells.


    Oh, and as a warning: Artificers kept the Soul of Artifice capstone, and made it even more brutal. You're reduced to 0 HP? Drop one of your Artificer Infusions (of which you get four, IIRC) as a reaction and basically tank the attack completely, as long as you're not killed outright.
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    ...OK. Whoa...

    Just watched The Gaming Gang video and combined with T.G. Oskar's compilation of racial information, I must say I'm officially HYPED.


    Not just because of the races, but also because the small glimpse I had on the magic items.

    To name a few, there's Arcane Propulsion Arm (it's both a melee magic weapon and it has Thrown property. Yeah. It does exactly what you might think it does: you throw your hand at an opponent and then it returns! ) and Prosthetic Limb. Both being wondrous magic items that replace a limb. The latter one is a bit special in that if you have multiple prosthetic limbs they all count as a single magic item you need to attune with. So, they don't each take their own attunement slots! Since buying magic items is an established possibility in Eberron, technically the only restriction on making a "self-forged" is now money, because magic items in general are also established as widely available.


    Can't wait to get my hands on my own (alternate cover) book next week!
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2019-11-13 at 05:23 AM.
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Man o man do those dragonmarks change the game. I love seeing so many new +2 wisdom options and a lot of floating +1s I think it's going to shake VHumans and half elf's position on top of the pile.

    Halflings healing wizard for the ultimate support build all the way.
    Last edited by stoutstien; 2019-11-13 at 08:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    SNIP
    Between the two of us, I think we pretty much covered all the player options in the book (except Group Patrons, but that's not individual player specific).

    Nice work, Oskar!

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiousLeader View Post
    We get a flip through the book here:


    I didn't bother trying to pause and get a full read on the crunch, but my major takeaways:
    - I love the news stories peppered throughout the book, very flavourful.
    - Art is a mix of reused stuff and new, but all very pretty
    - The group patron section is beefier than anticipated, of the 70 pages in Chapter 1 on character creation, about half of it is on having a group patron.
    - The DM section is also quite impressive, there are some neat maps
    Pausing to oogle the artificer, because that's where my interest lies. Going to focus on changes from the latest UA, and stuff not mentioned in the OP:

    1. More Infusions Known, more Infusions per day. The UA had it at 3-8 known and 2-5 per day. Published, it's 4-12 known and 2-6 per day.
    2. The right tool for the job lets you create an artisan's tool of your choice BUT you have to already have Tinker's Tools to do so. This doesn't allow you to arm yourself from nothing in a jail cell.
    3. Tool expertise is pushed back to level 6 (it had been at level 3). You replace rogues as the trap-disarming specialist less easily.
    4. Flash of Genius: It CAN be used on yourself or another creature within 30 feet. Adds your int mod to an ability check as a reaction IntmodXDaily.
    5. At level 10, craft any common or uncommon magic item at quarter speed and half cost. This replaces each subclass being able to craft a specific subset of magic items cheaply and quickly
    6. Spell Storing Item: Gained at level 11, which is huge. One major change: the SSI explicitly requires the user to concentrate on the spell if it requires concentration, though I'll note it still doesn't require you to "cast" the spell, co creatures otherwise unable to cast spells can still use it. A more subtle, but perhaps more important, change: the SSI needs to be "held", whereas in the UA the items had to be "in hand". This means creatures without hands capable of holding items in teeth or claws (such as familiars, or a paladin's mount) can use the item freely. This is massive.
    7. The subclasses only gain one additional tool proficiency, not two. These proficiencies explicitly allow you to learn a different proficiency inf you already have it.

    Alchemist
    1. The experimental Elixir has some interesting effects, though the random nature of the free 1/day elixir is... well, it's annoying. But created using a 1st level slot, it's kind of great. Concentration-free Alter Self a free +1 1d6 magic weapon, after all, and one that can be used for unarmed attacks. Though it only lasts 10 minutes. Would make a monk's life easier in the early levels. At level 9 it also gives 2d6+Intmod temp hp.
    2. They get int damage to four damage types, acid, poison, fire and necrotic. It used to be just acid and poison, so this is a nice change.

    Artillarist
    1. The Cannon lasts an hour now, up from 10 minutes
    2. It can be made to fit in your hand, or even potentially be mounted on your armor, so the mobility issues are gone.
    3. The arcane firearm is an improvement over the wand prototype. Most notably, nothing prevents you from using an already magic wand or staff as your arcane firearm. 1d8 extra damage is swingier than +intmod to damage, but it will multiply on crits, and that's a good thing. It also applies to non-cantrip spells.

    Battlesmith
    1. They get shield instead of searing smite! Oh my. They also swapped out some other crappy "smite" spells for conjure barrage (meh) and fire shield (nice). They retain Warding Bond: my Forcefield Generator TSAR remains operational.

    Infusions
    1. The "basic" +1 infusions improve to +2 at level 10 instead of level 12
    2. Homunculus Servant: This is an infusion now: any artificer can make one of these, and it's basically a super-familiar, though you'll need to use your bonus action to get it to do anything useful in combat. It comes equipped with a ranged weapon attack, but as noted you need to use your bonus action to make this happen.
    3. The artificer can craft the Headband of Intellect and Gauntlets of Ogre Power at level 10, down from level 12

    Neat!

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    I'm seeing multiple reports that the Arcane Weapon spell did NOT make it in.

    This greatly upsets me. It was so much better than Hunter's Mark or Hex because it applied to your weapon, not a specific target, so after you cast it, you were done. Didn't need to move it around. AND it made your weapon count as magical for bypassing resistance.

    It was a lot for a 1st level spell, but... Damn.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I'm seeing multiple reports that the Arcane Weapon spell did NOT make it in.

    This greatly upsets me. It was so much better than Hunter's Mark or Hex because it applied to your weapon, not a specific target, so after you cast it, you were done. Didn't need to move it around. AND it made your weapon count as magical for bypassing resistance.

    It was a lot for a 1st level spell, but... Damn.
    If it didn' make it I would understand. It was a tad much for a lv 1 spell. I think with the extra infusions and boost to the Subclasses at lower levels damage will be fine.

    I have not caught a glimpse of the finalized alchemist spell list at all yet.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Oof on the Warforged stuff. Pretty well kills my wrestler character if we switch over to it.
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Anybody catch the new orc stats? Also is goblin now the most represented race regardless of splat book?
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Anybody catch the new orc stats? Also is goblin now the most represented race regardless of splat book?
    I believe Orc is +2 Str, +1 Con

    Mark of Finding Half Orc is detailed in Oskar's post above.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I believe Orc is +2 Str, +1 Con

    Mark of Finding Half Orc is detailed in Oskar's post above.
    I can read the stats of orc but I can't make out the racial features. most I'm just being patient I have it pre-ordered so I really only have a few days to wait but as much snow as I've gotten this year already makes me think it will be delayed
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I can read the stats of orc but I can't make out the racial features. most I'm just being patient I have it pre-ordered so I really only have a few days to wait but as much snow as I've gotten this year already makes me think it will be delayed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuMgHdUnUko

    34:54 is where you want to pause it.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I'm seeing multiple reports that the Arcane Weapon spell did NOT make it in.
    That would be rough, but I get it. There are a bunch of ways the artificer was being set up as a big "**** you" to rangers, and that spell was one of them.

    EDIT: If you look at the Artificer Spell list (7:06 on the linked video) you can see that it is indeed missing from the list. That's too bad, but like I said, I get it.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2019-11-13 at 11:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    That would be rough, but I get it. There are a bunch of ways the artificer was being set up as a big "**** you" to rangers, and that spell was one of them.
    Yeah, Artificer remains, to my view, only suitable to Eberron.

    Level 10 is when you can attune to 4 items.
    Level 14 is Magic Item Savant: Attune to up to 5 items, and ignore all class, race and spell and level requirements for using or attuning to magic items.
    At 18th, attune to up to 6 items.
    Level 20 gets you +1 to all saves per magic item you're attuned to, and if you drop to 0 HP but not killed outright, you can use your reaction to end an infusion and instead drop to 1 HP. (I do believe Death Saves are in fact saving throws)
    I detest this capstone. It is waay unbalanced vis a vis anyone else. I made mention of that in my feedback to WoTC in the survey.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-11-13 at 11:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Okay, I just spent 30 minutes “translating” a screenshot I took of Adam Koebel’s YouTube video previewing Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

    This is the section on the Lord of Blades.
    Please keep in mind that it may not be the actual text (as I couldn’t find an option for a better video quality):

    The Lord of Blades is a Warforged warlord who has broken off ties with his former masters. He has established a nation for his people deep in the Mournland, centered on a grand fortress where Warforged from all over Khorvaire can come and feel a sense of belonging. No one knows what the Lord of Blades plans for his followers, but many fear that he intends to build a legion of Warforged zealots, primed to march from the Mournland to unleash destruction on their former masters.

    Some tales assert that the Lord of Blades led the Warforged armies of Cyre in the Last War. Others cast him as a newer Warforged, perhaps the last to come out of the Cannith creation forges before the Thronehold Accords led to their dismantling. One story claims the Lord of Blades caused the destruction of Cyre and warns that he intends to repeat the Day of Mourning in each of the remaining five nations.
    Whatever the truth, he has become a beacon for Warforged everywhere.


    Next up, Lady Illmarrow. That one is much longer and is probably gonna give me a headache...
    Last edited by Comaward; 2019-11-13 at 12:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I detest this capstone. It is waay unbalanced vis a vis anyone else. I made mention of that in my feedback to WoTC in the survey.
    What is unbalanced by getting something at level 20 for only oneself that Paladin's get and share to nearby allies at level 6, and even more allies at level 18? The protection from death also reduces their infusions, which are probably providing their attunements, so they lose effectiveness as the enemies are breaking more of their toys, not killing them. But they can only do it once per turn, because it takes their reaction.

    This is a far cry from Barbarians and Moon Druids going infinite rage and wild shape.
    Last edited by Protolisk; 2019-11-13 at 12:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    The changes to the Warforge is just ew. The wording on their integrated ability makes it now that you ARE wearing armor and suffer the ramifications of it. No more druids with comparable AC Warforge: you can't wear metal. No more barbarians that don't want to rely entirely on being naked for AC: you can't rage in armor properly. Add in that the sub races are gone, making everyone a generic envoy, and it feels like a dwarf without the speed drop. Except dwarves still get things for being a dwarf, while a warforge is.. meh. Maybe they could move the missing features to the Docent?

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Yeah, Artificer remains, to my view, only suitable to Eberron.

    I detest this capstone. It is waay unbalanced vis a vis anyone else. I made mention of that in my feedback to WoTC in the survey.
    It's a strong cap stone but not any better than barbarian, druid, or paladin. Good capstones make multiclassing a real choice.
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

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    Default Re: Some Eberron Book spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I detest this capstone. It is waay unbalanced vis a vis anyone else. I made mention of that in my feedback to WoTC in the survey.
    The save bonus is only a little better than a self-only paladin aura (+6 instead of +5) and keeping yourself standing when things would otherwise kill you is an inferior version of the Zealot feature, one that eats up your resources. I don't really see the problem. Several of the Paladin capstones are much better than this, the fighter's 4th attack is better than this, the Barbarian's +4 to Str and Con is better than this. Most casters have worse capstones, that's absolutely true, but they have been able to play with Wish for 3 levels so I expect it all evens out.

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