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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ZenBear's Avatar

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    Default Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Field Medicine
    Starting at 3rd level you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make Wisdom (Medicine) checks or use a healerís kit.

    Bedside Manner
    Starting at 9th level, you can make a Wisdom (Medicine) check to remove one mental condition affecting an allied creature. The DC is equal to that of the effect being removed.

    Triage
    Starting at 13th level, when your allies are taking a short rest you spend your time treating their wounds. Any hit dice spent during this time are maximized, taking the highest possible value.

    Patch Adams
    17th level AoE cleanse mental effects

    I've been working on this idea for a while, trying to create an effective healer without magic. My nurse friend suggested the Patch Adams capstone, but I'm not too keen on it. Not every medic is a goofball, so having a feature tied to a personality type is too restrictive in my opinion. I'm trying to think of something that speaks to a highly experienced and skilled medic, like a Dean of Medicine. Not sure how to accomplish that. Thoughts?

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    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Field Medicine must be buffed. As-is... It's trash.

    Bedside Manner could use a little more clarity, but seems good.

    Triage is potent, but feels okay.

    Patch Adams needs much, MUCH more clarity. What action is it? Does it have a use limit? What's the range? Is it discriminatory (as-in, can it differentiate between allies and enemies)?
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Field Medicine must be buffed. As-is... It's trash.
    Should have clarified, this is assumed to be used with the Healer feat. It's a common combo with the Thief's Fast Hands feature, rezzing downed allies as a bonus action. Also assumed the Medic Rogue would take Expertise in Medicine. I'm just working around the existing features rather than overlapping. Perhaps it should be part and parcel with the feature, rather than assuming a feat and skill tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Patch Adams needs much, MUCH more clarity. What action is it? Does it have a use limit? What's the range? Is it discriminatory (as-in, can it differentiate between allies and enemies)?
    I didn't flesh this out because I don't particularly care for it. If you have suggestions I'd love to hear them.

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    Composer99's Avatar

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBear View Post
    Field Medicine
    Starting at 3rd level you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make Wisdom (Medicine) checks or use a healerís kit.
    This is fine, but, IMO at least, this subclass needs something more at 3rd level. I think an offensive combat feature, some way of showing how your medicine training makes you a better rogue.

    Edit to add: I should note that if you want this feature to be this archetype's sole feature at 3rd level, then JNAProductions is correct in stating that it needs a big buff. It's fine if it's a ribbon feature and you have another, meatier feature alongside it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBear View Post
    Bedside Manner
    Starting at 9th level, you can make a Wisdom (Medicine) check to remove one mental condition affecting an allied creature. The DC is equal to that of the effect being removed.
    You need to specify the action or treatment time required, and you need to specify the conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBear View Post
    Triage
    Starting at 13th level, when your allies are taking a short rest you spend your time treating their wounds. Any hit dice spent during this time are maximized, taking the highest possible value.
    This feature is great, although the name of the feature is really not thematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBear View Post
    Patch Adams
    17th level AoE cleanse mental effects

    I've been working on this idea for a while, trying to create an effective healer without magic. My nurse friend suggested the Patch Adams capstone, but I'm not too keen on it. Not every medic is a goofball, so having a feature tied to a personality type is too restrictive in my opinion. I'm trying to think of something that speaks to a highly experienced and skilled medic, like a Dean of Medicine. Not sure how to accomplish that. Thoughts?
    Honestly, I would go with an offensive feature here at 17th level.
    Last edited by Composer99; 2019-11-11 at 07:33 AM.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    This is fine, but, IMO at least, this subclass needs something more at 3rd level. I think an offensive combat feature, some way of showing how your medicine training makes you a better rogue.

    ...
    I agree. You are a sort of a surgeon, right? And you know well anatomy, so you can add damage against, who knows, humanoids, or anything that is not a construct, or gives some kind of altered status, maybe cutting tendons or aiming to internal organs...

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Harry MTX View Post
    I agree. You are a sort of a surgeon, right? And you know well anatomy, so you can add damage against, who knows, humanoids, or anything that is not a construct, or gives some kind of altered status, maybe cutting tendons or aiming to internal organs...
    I think that's a bad way to go about it when you consider the overall theme since this is meant to be a medic and a healer so damage isn't really the way to go. Rogues already deal enough damage so giving extra damage to the healing subclass feels weird.

    Some way to heal others would be good but constant healing would be a bad idea. Maybe they could have something similar to the healer feat where they can heal others a certain amount of times and maybe each time they do they can just heal HP or maybe stop a condition. Just some ideas though

    Additionally for the level 17 ability I would maybe give some sort of ability which allows you to constantly heal or support allies. It's level 17 so it needs to be powerful so something like constant healing could be balanced, that said out of combat it could be op so maybe some sort of limit on it if they want to use it out of combat. All things considered since this is a medic you could say that if the creature hasn't been damaged for a certain amount of time you can't as a medic needs injuries to actually heal so it could make sense.
    Last edited by Bannan_mantis; 2019-11-12 at 06:46 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    In no particular order:

    Unless you use optional sanity rules, "mental conditions" are almost always based on magic. It could also stand to be more specific with its terminology, but looking at the list of conditions only Charmed and Frightened are clearly mental effects. You could instead allow a bonus saving throw against Wisdom save effects, with advantage at higher level, but that's a very niche build.

    Expecting Healer as part of the core package means you have a feat tax expectation. Made worse by the fact that not all tables use feats, and that you're forcing these rogues to put off their stat growth. You could probably get by just giving them Healer as a bonus feat. Inspiring Leader wouldn't suck either, as another way to be support without having to delve into magic.

    When your third level feature will wind up being mostly used as a subset of the thief subclasses ability, you're not giving much reason to not go thief instead. Adding to the chorus that Field Medicine is not strong enough to be a primary ability.

    Finally, and most importantly for a nonmagical healer. The 4e warlord managed to pull it off somehow, by just being so inspiring that you could pull yourself back for another go. In 5e, that sort of influence is tied up in the Inspiring Leader feat and the Rally battlemaster maneuver. Beyond that, though, nonmagical medicine tends to take a fairly long amount of time. This doesn't mesh well with D&D, where you lose a number of abstract hit points instead of having your arm broken for weeks until it sets properly. So while you could try building off of the existing frameworks to nonmagically heal a bit and bolster your allies, understand that meaningful heals on combat timescales are hard to express as anything other than magic.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype - Medic

    Quote Originally Posted by Bannan_mantis View Post
    I think that's a bad way to go about it when you consider the overall theme since this is meant to be a medic and a healer so damage isn't really the way to go. Rogues already deal enough damage so giving extra damage to the healing subclass feels weird.
    Mmm, you are right... And what about trading sneak attacks to get chances for this condition changes?

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