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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    smile Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Hey guys!

    My Sorcadin is woefully vulnerable to the INT saves that Mind Flayers and Intellect Devourers subject him to (8 INT).

    I was looking at options to mitigate this weakness when I was looking at the Mirror Image spell. Would this spell enable me to roll a d20 to make an Intellect Devourer target one of the clones instead with the Devour Intellect ability?

    I know a Headband of Intellect would be of great help, adding a +5 to the saves (with INT going from 8 to 19).

    Other suggestions to improve my odds against Mind Flayers, Intellect Devourers and the like are appreciated.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Expected's Avatar

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Unfortunately, a Headband of Intellect sets your Int to 19 for only a +4 modifier (+proficiency if you have it in Int saving throws). Are you 2/18 or a 6/14 Sorcadin? Honestly, the Aura of Warding Paladins get at level 6 offsets our scores we have to dump (Dex, Int, Wis) and is worth having.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Strictly speaking, mirror image only works on attacks, though your DM may assume or rule otherwise.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by torrmh View Post
    I was looking at options to mitigate this weakness when I was looking at the Mirror Image spell. Would this spell enable me to roll a d20 to make an Intellect Devourer target one of the clones instead with the Devour Intellect ability?
    Depends on the DM. With a strict reading Mirror Image only interacts with attacks, defined as using attack rolls. However, endless discussions have made it clear some will interpret "attack" to include any type of offensive targeted ability.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGirl

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Also consider that mirror image also usually works against sighted creatures. I don't know if it fools blindsight too.

    The best recommended defense is to have a friend cast Protection from Evil on you.

    Also the best defense is a good offense. If you can deal 42 damage (just 21 with a magic weapon) to a devourer before you spend a round within 10 feet of it, the problem is solved. Smite away, sorcadin!
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Hey and thanks for your input so far guys!

    Unfortunately, a Headband of Intellect sets your Int to 19 for only a +4 modifier (+proficiency if you have it in Int saving throws). Are you 2/18 or a 6/14 Sorcadin? Honestly, the Aura of Warding Paladins get at level 6 offsets our scores we have to dump (Dex, Int, Wis) and is worth having.
    I meant that going from a -1 (8 INT) to a +4 (19 INT) is the equivalent of a +5 to INT SAVE.

    My CHA is already 20, so it's a half decent save at +4 when I account for the -1 in INT, but lower than I would like.

    Depends on the DM. With a strict reading Mirror Image only interacts with attacks, defined as using attack rolls. However, endless discussions have made it clear some will interpret "attack" to include any type of offensive targeted ability.
    I was hoping for that interpretation as well, would make fighting these beasts a totally different story.

    Also consider that mirror image also usually works against sighted creatures. I don't know if it fools blindsight too.

    The best recommended defense is to have a friend cast Protection from Evil on you.

    Also the best defense is a good offense. If you can deal 42 damage (just 21 with a magic weapon) to a devourer before you spend a round within 10 feet of it, the problem is solved. Smite away, sorcadin!
    Reading the spell description again, it seems like the Intellect Devourer would be unaffected by Mirror Image, as it says creatures with Blindsight are unaffected :( Didn't notice that part before!

    I have Protection from Evil, but that only prevents the Intellect Devourer from using the Body Thief ability, it can still stun me with the Devour Intellect ability very easily with such a low INT score :/

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    From mirror image:
    "A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can't see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight."

    Intellect Devourer has blindsight and is unaffected by mirror image.

    Also, devour intellect is a saving throw and not an attack so mirror image wouldn't work anyway.

    Your best best is probably to find an headband of intellect which will change your saving throw from -1 to +4. However, it will take an attunement slot and you only have 3.

    Saving throws are one reason you would want to get paladin to level 6 since it helps offset your low saves.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    The save doesn't really matter that much, the damage isn't too bad. The scary part is the potential intellect to 0 and stun, which the headband completely prevents.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by torrmh View Post

    I have Protection from Evil, but that only prevents the Intellect Devourer from using the Body Thief ability, it can still stun me with the Devour Intellect ability very easily with such a low INT score :/
    "Devour Intellect. The intellect devourer targets one creature it can see within 10 feet of it that has a brain. The target must succeed on a DC 12 Intelligence saving throw against this magic or take 11 (2d10) psychic damage. Also on a failure, roll3d6: If the total equals or exceeds the target's Intelligence score, that score is reduced to 0. The target is stunned until it regains at least one point of Intelligence."

    A headband of intellect protects from this attack since the ID can never roll a 19 on 3d6 and the effects are not cumulative for each attack.
    Last edited by Keravath; 2019-11-12 at 09:23 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by torrmh View Post
    Other suggestions to improve my odds against Mind Flayers, Intellect Devourers and the like are appreciated.
    Devour Intellect has a very short range, so I'd suggest Expeditious Retreat plus a good ranged cantrip. It's cheap (bonus action, 1st level slot) and long-lasting (10 minutes, concentration) and it's effective.

    Seriously, don't get close or you'll get wrecked.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Thanks everyone!

    Seems like my best bet is the Headband of Intellect which makes me immune to the stun part of Devour Intellect.

    Until I can find that I probably better stay at range then if there's more than one Intellect Devourer!

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by torrmh View Post
    Thanks everyone!

    Seems like my best bet is the Headband of Intellect which makes me immune to the stun part of Devour Intellect.

    Until I can find that I probably better stay at range then if there's more than one Intellect Devourer!
    Actually your best bet is to win initiative and one turn the ID or MF. Your burst is ridiculous enough to do so. Our party ran into 3 mindflayers I used portent to kill their initiative and we used 3 fireballs in a row before they could even go and basically melted all 3 mindflayers faces at once.

    At that level doing the math after the game we found out it was a 4x deadly encounters trivialized by winning initiative and having three of us with fireball.
    Last edited by Gignere; 2019-11-13 at 02:37 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    If you have a headband of intellect, I strongly recommend taking out mind flayers before intellect devourers, as the intellect devourer's body thief works on incapacitated creatures, which mind blast causes, while the intellect devourer's on method of incapacitation, drain intellect, won't work on you, with 19 int. So, the headband give you protection against intellect devourers, but less protection against illithid+devourer combos. (Though +5 saves is still invaluable, especially against DCs of 15 and 12)
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Actually your best bet is to win initiative and one turn the ID or MF. Your burst is ridiculous enough to do so. Our party ran into 3 mindflayers I used portent to kill their initiative and we used 3 fireballs in a row before they could even go and basically melted all 3 mindflayers faces at once.

    At that level doing the math after the game we found out it was a 4x deadly encounters trivialized by winning initiative and having three of us with fireball.
    This is a good point! My own initiative is a measly +0 though, but at least I have a couple of other players with a decent iniative though, and even a diviner too! I reckon our DM wouldn't let that portent count for all the Flayers though :P

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel1 View Post
    If you have a headband of intellect, I strongly recommend taking out mind flayers before intellect devourers, as the intellect devourer's body thief works on incapacitated creatures, which mind blast causes, while the intellect devourer's on method of incapacitation, drain intellect, won't work on you, with 19 int. So, the headband give you protection against intellect devourers, but less protection against illithid+devourer combos. (Though +5 saves is still invaluable, especially against DCs of 15 and 12)
    Yup, good shout!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee_Dragon View Post
    Depends on the DM. With a strict reading Mirror Image only interacts with attacks, defined as using attack rolls. However, endless discussions have made it clear some will interpret "attack" to include any type of offensive targeted ability.
    It depends on whenever you decide to read it as English or to read it as if it was a purely technical term that is defined in a specific paragraph.
    Neither is wrong as long as you are the gm since in 5e the rule is "the gm interprets the rules in any way they want"

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by torrmh View Post
    This is a good point! My own initiative is a measly +0 though, but at least I have a couple of other players with a decent iniative though, and even a diviner too! I reckon our DM wouldn't let that portent count for all the Flayers though :P
    Sentinel shield for the win. Monster group initiative is one roll and portent replaces one roll.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Sentinel shield for the win. Monster group initiative is one roll and portent replaces one roll.
    Well, Portent replaces one roll made by a creature that you can see. Is group initiative made by a creature, or by a group of creatures? Only the DM can say for sure...

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Intellect Devourers and Mirror Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Actually your best bet is to win initiative and one turn the ID or MF. Your burst is ridiculous enough to do so. Our party ran into 3 mindflayers I used portent to kill their initiative and we used 3 fireballs in a row before they could even go and basically melted all 3 mindflayers faces at once.

    At that level doing the math after the game we found out it was a 4x deadly encounters trivialized by winning initiative and having three of us with fireball.
    3 fireballs in a row trivializes many encounters.

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