Applying EB invocations to other catrips.

[Greywander]

To preempt any, "Ask your DM," responses, I'm both the player and the DM in this scenario. It's just the two of us, so we're co-DMing with a virtual DM so we can both play. I guess mostly I'm just inquiring what people think would be balanced and fair.

I'm rolling up a character that is a follower of a flame deity, so I'll probably be using Fire Bolt, Sacred Flame, and Word of Radiance as my main offensive cantrips. I plan to dip into Celestial warlock at some point, but don't feel like it quite fits the theme to get EB and use it over Fire Bolt. Some of the EB invocations can be pretty useful, though. So I was wondering how people would feel about using these invocations with other cantrips.

Fire Bolt is already very similar to EB. The big differences are the damage type and that Fire Bolt can't be split up like EB. It's a slight downgrade, if anything, so I don't think there'd be any balance concerns with applying EB invocations to Fire Bolt. What about making some of the invocations scale since Fire Bolt only shoots one ray? For example, Repelling Blast pushing up to 40 feet back once you hit 17th level. You still can't split it up, so it's still inferior to EB. What about other cantrips, like Sacred Flame oe Word of Radiance? Or, what about swapping Fire Bolt for a modified EB that deals my choice of fire or radiant damage?

Part of me wants to say, "No," so that I have an excuse to get other, less optimized but more fun invocations. Eyes of the Rune Keeper would be much more thematic.

[Dork_Forge]

It'd be pretty much the same but a bit weaker than EB whichever way you go, nothing game breaking but I'd suggest locking the invocations in to one specific cantrip and personally I wouldn't try and change them to scale.

[Greywander]

I guess I'm worried that if I only apply them to Fire Bolt, then I'll have little reason to ever use Sacred Flame again, except in those edge cases where the monster is immune to fire or has high AC and a low DEX save.

Perhaps applying them to both would make up for not being able to split it up?

[Dork_Forge]

I guess I'm worried that if I only apply them to Fire Bolt, then I'll have little reason to ever use Sacred Flame again, except in those edge cases where the monster is immune to fire or has high AC and a low DEX save.

Perhaps applying them to both would make up for not being able to split it up?

Sacred Flame doesn't really have a direct beam like Firebolt does and applying to both feels like a bit much to me. Maybe have certain invocations for SF and others for FB?

[Greywander]

Maybe. It'll be a while before we get to that point, assuming the campaign doesn't fall apart first, so I'll have time to consider different options.

[Sigreid]

I personally as DM would not have any real trouble if you had one cantrip that the invocations worked with instead of EB. You'd have to pick your cantrip at character creation. In essence, your EB would just be this other cantrip.

[da newt]

Why not just take EB but change the damage type to Fire? This way you know nothing is broken but it fits your theme. I'd think this is a lesser 'variance ask' of a DM than asking them to completely rewrite all the cantrip/class/invocation rules (much more deviation and complexity).

[Foxydono]

Why not just take EB but change the damage type to Fire? This way you know nothing is broken but it fits your theme. I'd think this is a lesser 'variance ask' of a DM than asking them to completely rewrite all the cantrip/class/invocation rules (much more deviation and complexity).

I did exactly this with my pyromancer sorcerer!

[Lunali]

Why not just take EB but change the damage type to Fire? This way you know nothing is broken but it fits your theme. I'd think this is a lesser 'variance ask' of a DM than asking them to completely rewrite all the cantrip/class/invocation rules (much more deviation and complexity).

My gut reaction to this if I were DM would be to either say no or allow it but specify that radiant soul doesn't apply to it.

[stoutstien]

Ray of frost would be nasty with repelling and Lance of Lethargy.

[Theaitetos]

Just a reminder that Firebolt has a bonus over all other cantrips in the game: It works against objects. No other damage cantrip can be used to smash a door, tear down a column, or destroy a ship's sails.

If it's just meant to look different, just use the normal EB but make the beams appear like rays of fire. The description of EB leaves a lot to the imagination as to what exactly a "beam of crackling energy" looks like: fire ray, lightning bolt, sound/thunder wave, radiant light, necrotic beam, … .

[Tanarii]

Fire Bolt is already very similar to EB. The big differences are the damage type and that Fire Bolt can't be split up like EB. It's a slight downgrade, if anything,

Actually, it's a side-grade. With EB, you get more consistent damage, with much less chance of lowest possible (0) or highest possible (up to 4d10) damage. For some people the higher chance of getting max damage is superior to the risk of getting no damage. For other people, consistency is key.