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2019-11-20, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Incantifier is a neat, if not alltogether amazing, PrC from Dragon 339 3/5 progression PrC, which at 3rd level gets this ability:
Spell Leech I (Su): At 3rd level, an incantifier can channel absorbed arcane energy back into his own magic. If an arcane spell or spell-like ability does not beat the incantifier's spell resistance, the incantifier regains a spell of the absorbed spell's level that he has already cast that day or regains a used spell slot of the appropriate level. If the incantifier has his full compliment of spells, and thus has no cast spells or used spell slots, he cannot benefit from this ability. For example, if a wizard incantifier's spell resistance negates a lightning bolt, he can restore a single 1st-, 2nd-, or 3rd-level spell he had previously cast, regaining it as if he had never cast it.
So my simple thought is, can we (with minimal chesse) get a character who has a) Dark Invocations, b) 9th level spellslots, and c) 3 levels in Incantifier?
Eldritch Theurge seems to be the main backbone of this idea, being a 10 level PrC that simultaneously fully advances casting and Invocations.
Our other mandatory building blocks are 1 level of Warlock (with a Cincture of Eldritch whatever), 1 level of our Arcane Spellcaster of choice with Precocious Apprentice (lets say Wizard)), and of course 3 levels of Incantifier that gives us +2 levels of casting progression on either Warlock or Wizard (I don't think it can be used on Eldritch Theurge for more dual progression).
So as is we have 10+1+1+2 = 15 levels, which gives us Warlock and Wizard magic at level 11 and 13 (either can be the high one).
This is where I am stuck.
We need level 17 on Wizard and level 16 on Warlock to get full power out of this idea.
Even if we contend ourselves with infinite 8th level spells, we still need 16 on Warlock (and 15 on Wizard) since Heighten SLA is limited to 3/day, so we're one level short (i.e. Wizard & Warlock 15).
The closest to a solution I know would be to try to extend Eldritch Theurge via Legacy Champion, which in exchange for 1 lost level of progression would then net us 4 levels of dual progression.
That would make 8th level spells feasible (Warlock 17, Wizard 15), but we're still 1 short off 9th levels (warlock 15, Wizard 17).
Anybody know of any solutions to this?
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2019-11-20, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Just take Master of the Elements at level 21. That will give you a 9th level arcane SLA with only 13 effective levels of warlock.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2019-11-21, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- New England
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Ultimate magus, instead of Legacy champion, I think gets you there.
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2019-11-21, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
If the game goes into epic that would work, but really looking to keep it contained to 20.
I don't think it does? Even if we accept that Ultimate Magus works on Warlock despite specifying "+1 level of existing spontaneous arcane casting class " instead of “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class”, I don't think you get more advancement out if it than you would by legacy championing Eldritch Theurge.
With 5 levels in UM, you get 3 levels of dual progression, and 2 levels of progressing the lower of your two base classes; adding up to the same 4 levels of dual progression we'd get out of Legacy Champion 5.
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2019-11-21, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Warlocks get access to dark invocations at level 16, wizards at 17. The incantifier can choose on each level which arcane caster to level up.
1 Warlock level
1 Wizard level
10 Eldritch theurge levels
5 legacy champion (eldritch theurge) +4 class progression
1 level incantifier (warlock)
2 levels incantifier (wizard)
This gives 16th level warlock which gives one dark invocation and 17th level wizard which gives access to 9th level spells.
Just remember that the wording on the incantifier on a wizard will only return prepared spells and not just anything on the spell list.
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2019-11-21, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2019-11-21, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
This exploit won't work because of this:
If an arcane spell or spell-like ability does not beat the incantifier's spell resistance,
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2019-11-21, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- New England
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
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2019-11-21, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
I think you misread, Incantifier only adss +1 level to existing casting class at levels 1, 3 and 5; so we're falling one short.
"The incantifier decides whether or not his spell resistance affects spells he casts on himself, either benefiting from the spell or healing as he chooses."
Technically doesn't mention the SLAs, but that'd be some real pedantic hairsplitting considering the rest of the ability's text.
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2019-11-21, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Oops, that was a pathfinder conversion. Well, the only other option would be to convince the DM to allow continued progression for ET (never knew the reason for the 10th level maximum as it is fairly dumb and less thematic), but that might be a tough sell given the early entry shenanigans you are using for theurge in the first place unless the DM doesn't actually care. You can at least get 8th level spells infinitely.
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2019-11-21, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
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2019-11-21, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
You could, perhaps, use a Spellhoarding Loredrake dragonwrought kobold sorcerer with Greater Rite of Draconic Passage as base? I know it's somewhat (okay, very) cheesy, but hey, free spellcasting levels.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2019-11-21, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
"A warlock’s invocations are subject to spell resistance unless an invocation’s description specifically states otherwise." so yeah.
Well, there is no kill like overkill...
Okay, something that might work with this would be a Trickster Spellthief with Masterspellthief, but the question is whether Spell Leech spells can be funneled into the Steal Spell pool. If so, the only thing required would to get our 9th level spells of choice as "known".
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2019-11-21, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Perhaps an accelerated Arcane caster, like a Sublime Chord, could make this easier? I am afb right now, though.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2019-11-21, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
I don't have that Dragon magazine, so I don't actually know at what point in this build you qualify for Incantifier... but I think the premise is sound*.
Sha'ir 1/ Warlock 2/ Mystic Theurge 2/ Eldritch Theurge 10/ Incantifier 3/ Mystic Theurge +2
... with Precocious Apprentice for a 2nd level spell that Sha'irs can cast as both divine and arcane, letting them qualify for Mystic Theurge with just one level (still need at least 3 levels total to meet the skill requirements, though). Mystic Theurge progresses Sha'ir as a divine casting class and Warlock as an arcane casting class, until you qualify for Eldritch Theurge. Then once you've got 10 levels of Eldritch Theurge and 3 of Incantifier, you can go back to Mystic Theurge to finish off the build.
End result is effectively Sha'ir 17/ Warlock 16. Just right.
*Unless Incantifier requires Wizard specifically, in which case... I'm going to look pretty foolish, now aren't I? And on that note, I also hope you get 2 levels of caster progression from the 3 levels you take, or you come out one level short...Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2019-11-22 at 12:58 AM.
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!
Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II
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2019-11-22, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
I... I think this actually does it!?
Mystic Theurge can progress Sha'ir with the Divine +1s and Warlock with the Arcane +1s, essentially letting it serve as a second Eldritch Theurge.
What's even better is that its low entry requirements fix the skill prerequesite problem I had so far ignored.
Also, Incantifier is not Wizard exclusive, it just requires 6th level arcane spells to enter (also a buncha skills, non-good alignment and phylactery-equivalent crafting resources), provides 2 levels of progression over the first 3 levels as you thought, and serves to let us regain arcane spellslots by feeding Spells/SLAs to our SR.
So I think this works out.
Unless anyone sees an issue, I think you've successfully perfected my "Infitnite 9th level Spells" engine character idea. Kudos.Last edited by Jowgen; 2019-11-22 at 12:15 AM.
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2019-11-22, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2019-11-22 at 12:59 AM.
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!
Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II
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2019-11-24, 05:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Location
- In eternity.
- Gender
Re: Incantifier x Warlock X Eldritch Theurge for Infinite Magic?
Circle Magic + Heighten?