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Thread: List of loose ends
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2019-11-27, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: List of loose ends
Personally, my view is that it is a broad enough term that it could be said that V's gender, especially V's "biological gender" has still not been revealed, nor has what gender V "identifies as".
It simply rules out that V is "male identifying as male" or "female identifying as female" but still many possibilities remain.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2019-11-27, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: List of loose ends
I agree that V’s sex won’t be revealed and that asking what she identifies as is meaningless since it seems like elves have retroactively been written as both mostly androgynous and having a genderless society.
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2019-11-27, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Mangholi Dask
Re: List of loose ends
So, I have a question about this thread.
For quite a while, I've had a plan that when book 6 ended, I would reboot the old "Unresolved Plot Point Collection", with basically a copy of the old list but I would mark off those that have now been resolved, and keep the list updated as book 7 progressed.
Would it still be okay to do this? I don't want to be seen as needlessly duplicating an existing thread, but on the other hand, the original poster of this thread doesn't seem to be maintaining the list. I think it would be good for people to have a maintained list in a single post they could easily refer to.
Any thoughts?
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2019-11-27, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
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2019-11-27, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Mangholi Dask
Re: List of loose ends
All other maintained threads (e.g. MitD; Number of Character Appearances; Index of the Giant's Comments; etc. etc.) have a lot of debate, too. That doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to maintain them.
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2019-11-27, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2019
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- Florida
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2019-11-27, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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2019-11-27, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-11-27, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: List of loose ends
Got it, understand now, ty. I am now more curious though about the nature of belief systems of "fiends" though, love to know how a "lawful" fiend would differ from chaotic or neutral in terms of actions and... well... laws. Wonder what kind of "laws" fiends have. Being rather new to all this I have to say I'm finding D&D more and more interesting the more I learn.
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2019-11-27, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
One thing I'm sure you'll learn on your own but I feel obligated to tell you about anyways is that there's a great many different interpretations of the Alignment system, and what it means to be Lawful or Chaotic. Good and Evil provoke some debates, too, but not that many- it's Lawful vs Chaotic that produces the most.
And the reason for that is that there's been a lot of different definitions of Lawful Vs Chaotic over the various editions of D&D. Originally, Lawful vs Chaotic was there because it was in the Sword & Sorcery books that most of D&D's bones are really drawn from- Law and Chaos were abstract, cosmic principles that were inhuman and amoral, and also in conflict with one another. Of course, there's an obvious problem with this model: Most people don't read Sword & Sorcery books, and so Law vs Chaos wasn't a particularly accessible conflict to wrap their heads around.
So then, it was expanded to the nine-point alignment grid we know and perhaps tolerate today, but with a different rationale. See, Lawful Good and Lawful Evil had more in common than Lawful Good and Chaotic Good- Lawful Good and Lawful Evil were both aligned with the cosmic principle of Law, and it just so happened that Lawful Good was personally a lot nicer about it than Lawful Evil was. And wouldn't you know it, this was still not particularly accessible to a wider audience.
Well, then came something of a flip. Instead of Law and Chaos as the "cosmic principles" axis, and Good and Evil as the "personal inclinations" axis, the designers switched to Good and Evil as the "cosmic principles" axis, and Law and Chaos as the "personal inclinations" axis. This was much more accessible to wider audiences- pretty much everyone knows what a fight between the forces of Good and Evil looks like. Law and Chaos, meanwhile... well, what does a Champion of Law look like? A Champion of Chaos? Good has Angels and Evil has Demons, but what do Law and Chaos get? In D&D's cosmology at least, the answer to that question is "robot dice and giant frogs."(They're called Modrons(robot dice) and Slaads(giant frogs)) Which is cool and funky, but also... well, funky. It's weird. And weird is not a bad thing, but it is, generally, a little inaccessible.
Anyhow, the end result of all this is you've got some people thinking Law and Chaos are cosmic principles, other people who think they're personal inclinations that are relative to societal norms, and probably some third and fourth interpretations I haven't mentioned but are nonetheless incompatible with either interpretation, and for the most part, not very many of them realize that they're having this fundamental disconnect, which is why alignment debates have a reputation for getting very ugly, very fast.
If you want my advice? I suggest you politely ignore everything to do with Alignment. It isn't worth the trouble.
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2019-11-27, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
"Him" was used as shorthand for a person of no specific gender for a long time, but I feel like Rich using male pronouns for V is, at most, toying with the longstanding standard of "V being called a certain gender doesn't mean anything". As in, it's no different than Roy calling V "him" in one comic and "her" the next; either comic on its own could be cited as evidence to suggest V is biologically one gender, but is actually coincidental. At worst, it doesn't mean anything and it's literally just used to make the grammar more fluid.
Also, both V and their lover are of ambiguous gender as well as having adopted their kids (I think that was mentioned at one point in the main comic, but I can't recall where, if it should have been spoilered then my apologies), so again there's little reason to make assumptions.An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-11-27, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
Devils, that is, LE fiends, are rational and believe in organized evil. They like bureaucratic red tape, little print clauses and catch-22 rules. They prefered way to corrupt mortals is to fool them into making mephistophelic bargains. Among themselves, they struggle for power through intrincate game-of-thrones style plots.
Demons (CE Fiends) on the other hand, are emotional. They corrupt mortals through indulging in their emotions. A succubus/incubus, for example, leads you to peridition through luring you into indulging in your lust. They also like brutal violence and rampaging destruction. Among themselves, their power struggles are through violence, not intrincate plots.
Daemons (NE fiends) don't care about anything but anihilating life and existence. Their approach to evil is nihilistic. War, plague, famine, natural disasters, are just efficient, dissapasionate ways to anihilate life. They are the Ennui of fiendish races.
Well, there is a lot more about it in D&D lore, but that's a basic approach about how the different aligned fiends operate.
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2019-11-27, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: List of loose ends
Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-11-27 at 06:06 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-11-27, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: List of loose ends
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-11-27, 10:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-11-28, 04:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
Well, Demons are usually portrayed more as brutal violent mutable rampaging monsters fond on destruction torture rape and murder (not neccesary in that order). But, yes.
The important thing when dealing with the Law-Chaos axis is to avoid straight-jackets. Note how Roy has been tried twice in the Comic by LG standards (the Azurite Trial and the Deva Trial in the Afterlife) and both close with a heavy author's tract about understanding D&D alignment, specially the Law-Chaos axis. The most important thing is to remain true to the alignment in your motivations.
For exaple, I mentioned the Incubi/Succubi in my previous post. They are seen by many players as weird demons because they avoid violence and are subtle manipulators, which is generally understood as Devil behaviour.
However, a Devil is trying to fool you, to make you legally binding your soul to him. The succubus just overcharges your senses and turns you into an addict.
A sucessful devil's work ends with the mortal being drawn in chains to Hell, screaming and kicking, asking for a lawyer and a re-trial, while the devil laughts and gloats in his face. The victim of a successful succubus goes willingly, he's just a junkie slave destroyed by his own lust. Most source material of D&D, however, portraits demons playing more with pain rather than pleasure.
Daemons are ofter featured like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, just doing their job, grim, cold and silent.Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-11-28 at 09:48 AM.
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2019-11-28, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
Re: List of loose ends
I still think there's something still open with the Oracle.
The whole "pixie \ kobold" dust thing in #566 is a bit suspicious.
He's lying about his power source, which makes me wonder if he's involved with some yet unseen party.
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2019-11-28, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
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2019-11-28, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: List of loose ends
My bet is that Tarquin and Co are not resolved in the main plot. From a meta perspective - and that's how Tarkers operates - the only way his ambitions are foiled is if he turns out to be a minor villain after all. That's how Elan can defeat him - by simply rejecting his place in the story.
However, I can see - in some distant future perhaps, following the completion of the main story - the possibility of the Giant writing the resolution of Tarky and the Vector Legion storyline in a side story, a companion book. I think the story hooks have already been laid in the plot, what with Ian Starshine, Geoff, Enor, and Gannji getting recruited for the Avengers by Amun-Zora.
I daresay that Redcloak's niece and other hanging story hooks that don't get resolved might even be thrown in that pot as well.
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2019-11-28, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-11-28, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
Last edited by D.One; 2019-11-28 at 02:19 PM.
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-11-29, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
Re: List of loose ends
I honestly don't get it.
I get the notion that the "worst" that could happen to Tarquin is to be taken off screen and all.
But seriously, we saw something coming out of the rift in the desert.
Do people really believe that cliffhanger is going to be left unchecked? We're never going to see or talk about that in the comics ever again?
Sounds completely nuts to me.
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2019-11-29, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
I don't see why those two ideas (tarquin being dealt with offscreen and the rift in the desert appearing again and having plot importance) should be incompatible... The Order might receive news from the desert about the rift there, and go to check on it, expecting some sort of rematch with Tarquin and friends, only to find out he was defeated for good offscreen by the rebelion and that the Vector Legion is behind bars.
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-11-29, 07:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: List of loose ends
D. One beat me to it. They weren't anywhere near the rift when Tarquin landed. And he ceded all control and jurisdiction to Laurin. So we could go back there, but that has no bearing on whether we'd see Tarquin.
Also, i don't think we'll go back there until the rifts are re-sealed at comic's end. Same for Azure City rift. Except maybe for Durkon to show Redcloak hoe Gobbotopia is suffering or something.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-11-29, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
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Re: List of loose ends
Perhaps we'll return to that rift in particular in some way, I dunno, but my interpretation of that scene with the Snarl is that it was there simply to tell us that yes, the Snarl is real and is very much a threat, at a point where Vaarsuvius (and by extension, the Order and the readers) was wondering whether anything Shojo had told them was true. In that sense, that rift already served its purpose.
ungelic is us
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2019-11-29, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: List of loose ends
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2019-12-07, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015