What if Antarctica Stayed Green? (Fantasy Antarctica)

[Jendekit]

I watched a YouTube video earlier today that asked the question: What if Antarctica stayed green and lush?

Regardless of how its answered, no one can deny that it would make for an incredible D&D setting. Even with warm enough temperatures to allow for tropical ferns and palms (not making this up, that actually happened) the seasons would have a huge impact on any cultural development there. Since its at the bottom of the world, the summer day and winter night both last for FOUR MONTHS. That's four months with no sunlight in the winter, and four months with no darkness in the summer.

That doesn't even go into the plant and animal life that would live there, assuming we go the longer but more interesting route of speculative evolution. We know from the fossil record that marsupials originated in the Americas then migrated south through Antarctica into Australia. So figure 30+ million years to have birds, amphibians, bugs, and marsupials to fill all the ecological niches.

There is so much potential for worldbuilding in this one question! What ideas come to your brain? I need to know

[TurboGhast]

I think that hibernation during the singular winter night and aestivation during the singular summer day would be particularly common in a lush Antarctica to allow animals to specialize for the season they don't sleep through. This would exaggerate the seasonal difference for beings that stay awake in every season, because their interactions with the dormant animals completely change.

[Mechalich]

A key question involves weather and precipitation patterns. Currently almost the entirety of Antarctica qualifies as desert, with almost the entire inland area receiving less than 100 mm of precipitation each year. However, a lot of this is a consequence of the ice sheet itself, which produces winds that prevent weather systems from reaching the interior due to being so cold, and a warm Antarctica would not do this. Seasonality would still impact precipitation in an immense way, and I believe it would probably be much wetter in summer - due to a 24 hour evapo-transpiration cycle - than in winter, when photosynthesis would cease. Also note that a considerable portion of Antarctica is quite elevated, and in a post-glacial rebound scenario would only be more so (note that without rebound, a considerable portion of the continent would be underwater), so a lot of the interior might end up being alpine terrain.

Taken together I think you might get something like a cooler version of Australia. Lush coastal regions (especially on the Antarctica peninsula) but an alpine desert interior with a large number of endorhiec basins.

Vegetation wise, your ecosystem probably mixes and matches likely plants from both Tasmania and Tierra del Fuego, these being the closest regions and ones with a climate that's probably similar to what a warmer Antarctica would get (especially the drier eastern half of Tasmania). Summer growth would be significant, but even with twenty-four hours of light, there's only so much water to fuel growth, also only so much CO2, an important point when considering comparisons to Cretaceous Antarctica.

Birds would probably adapt fairly easily to this new continent, with migrations similar to those now practiced by large bird populations that migrate to areas in the Arctic during the summer. Hibernating mammals would also probably need little adjustment, especially burrowers. Larger mammals would be the tricky bit. Kangaroos are well-adapted to dry inland environments and a sort of 'caribou-kangaroo' capable of feeding on lichens and mosses in the inland region during the dark months makes a certain amount of sense.

[khadgar567]

second side important think is america and europe has constant connection thanks to antarctica being suitable enough to first build a railroad than regular roads thus we dont need colomb to re discover the damn think and makes sure europe conquered by ottoman empire due silk road dont changed by it and makes russian american border the biggest part of the world war due each superpower can reach each other via ground thus making naval warfare becomes not this powerful.

[Eldan]

Antarctica, Khadgar, not Atlantic?

[Jendekit]

So I went looking for some possible critters that might live in the green Antarctica, focusing on extinct creatures from South America and Australia.

Spoiler: Beasties

Show

[Spore]

Yea, you can easily provide megafauna on these. The question would be, is your continent also focussed on a magnetic pole of your planet's magnet field? How does this work within your setting? Is there a gigantic spire of unknown origin there? Do the magic leylines converge there to create a permanent portal ala Warhammer?

Geographical orientation would like be radial, so you'd first say which latitude you're in and then which "degree", maybe simplify by dividing the map into octants. "The mighty city of Melbourne, oriented in the 6th Octant, 12th latitude stands proud above its great port, where ships of all kind can dock."

[sktarq]

First off- agriculture at high latitude gets kinds weird.

Alaska for example can produce monster veggies due to the light cycle and would be a good candidate for climate.

Then again it can be hard to grow most normal starches to a point that you can provide a communal surplus.

So while there may be some hyperquick growing version of a potato (upland starch not too far away that get domesticated instead/in addition) you're gonna find the logistics of cultural food production tough.

Also would be very culturally isolated until quite late probably...the storms of the roaring 40's would make longer distance sea travel tough. The peninsular archipelago, and the semi-protected Weddel seas would be hives of seaborne trade longer trips would probably be rare.

Looking at fungal monsters would also be worthwhile. Fungi can often go into hibernation and comeback better than other complex life forms so may have an advantage. Myconid cities perhaps.

In D&D terms night vision/darkvision would be important.

Also-vampires...4 months of darkness....could get interesting.

Also if you want to go far back Antarctica was one of the last holdouts of the giant amphibians more normally associated with the pre-dinosaur fauna groups.

[Squire Doodad]

Also note that doing so requires raising the sea levels considerably. Making Antarctica/Arctic temperate (think maybe Virginia level?) works fine if you go with a "more steady growth and stuff, the poles are actually only a fair bit warmer instead of ridiculously so". However, to make the north pole have palm trees involves making the sea levels go much, much higher. What this means is that you'd probably also have North America be quite a bit smaller, with a ring of shallow seas (probably more like a giant saltwater river/lake) along the central valleys. If any of this sounds familiar, I'm describing the Cretaceous era (which works much better as a fantasy world map than our world does, the only issue being the lack of a large icy area).

In general, it sounds like a great idea and a lot of fun!

[sktarq]

Meh *palm trees* are kind of handwave issues.
They are native to England (the Torquay Palm) but not California. So latitude is not a great barometer.
Plus most people mistake Cycads for palm trees (fossils of which were found down there) and don't know the difference and wouldn't care in a D&D like situation unless they were paleontologically or botanically inclined out of the game. Plus if you have dragons and the like a temperate or cold weather "blue palm" or what not won't raise an eyebrow.
But yeah how much you raise the temp will matter quite a bit. That point very much stands.

[BBQ Pork]

Also-vampires...4 months of darkness....could get interesting.

There was a movie like that (set in Alaska).

30 Days of Night https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389722/

[Squire Doodad]

Meh *palm trees* are kind of handwave issues.
They are native to England (the Torquay Palm) but not California. So latitude is not a great barometer.
Plus most people mistake Cycads for palm trees (fossils of which were found down there) and don't know the difference and wouldn't care in a D&D like situation unless they were paleontologically or botanically inclined out of the game. Plus if you have dragons and the like a temperate or cold weather "blue palm" or what not won't raise an eyebrow.
But yeah how much you raise the temp will matter quite a bit. That point very much stands.

I want to see one player be whining about palm trees and the other be "...so, the northwest passage is open?"

[DuctTapeKatar]

I watched a YouTube video earlier today that asked the question: What if Antarctica stayed green and lush?

Regardless of how its answered, no one can deny that it would make for an incredible D&D setting.

I'm disappointed nobody has come up with the name "Fantartica," you know, Fantastic Antarctica?

[Squire Doodad]

I'm disappointed nobody has come up with the name "Fantartica," you know, Fantastic Antarctica?

That'd go under the "Antarctica Fanon wiki", sorry

[Jendekit]

I would like some feedback on a WIP map I plant to use for this green Antarctica (in preparation for a campaign set in a fantasy setting version). Haven't quite got the major rivers figured out (rivers like the Mississipi, Nile, Danube, Yellow, etc.) and also need to figure out just how many nations will exist on it, because (according to a separate YouTube video that I got the base image from and takes isostatic rebound into account) the main body would be roughly 9 million square kilometers of land area, pretty close to the size of Europe.

My current plan is to have 3-4 major races living on the continent, along with several others with smaller populations (akin to the 4 major races and a number of extra ones in the PHB). My current list of major races include a subrace of elves, a fungal race like myconids, and a race akin to the khajit from Elder Scrolls based on the extinct thylacosmilus. Bit of a toss up on whether or not to include humans.

Spoiler: WIP Map

Show

[sktarq]

I want to see one player be whining about palm trees and the other be "...so, the northwest passage is open?"

Wait....I don't remember you at my table!

[Tom Kalbfus]

I watched a YouTube video earlier today that asked the question: What if Antarctica stayed green and lush?

Regardless of how its answered, no one can deny that it would make for an incredible D&D setting. Even with warm enough temperatures to allow for tropical ferns and palms (not making this up, that actually happened) the seasons would have a huge impact on any cultural development there. Since its at the bottom of the world, the summer day and winter night both last for FOUR MONTHS. That's four months with no sunlight in the winter, and four months with no darkness in the summer.

That doesn't even go into the plant and animal life that would live there, assuming we go the longer but more interesting route of speculative evolution. We know from the fossil record that marsupials originated in the Americas then migrated south through Antarctica into Australia. So figure 30+ million years to have birds, amphibians, bugs, and marsupials to fill all the ecological niches.

There is so much potential for worldbuilding in this one question! What ideas come to your brain? I need to know

So do you imagine Antarctica as a magical continent? Lets suppose the rest of the world hasn't changed but Antarctica is a magical continent so what happens when James Cook lands on its shore and discovers that cannons and muskets don't work and the land is populated by all sorts of fairy tale creatures? Do the British attempt to colonize Antarctica? What happens if they do?

I would like some feedback on a WIP map I plant to use for this green Antarctica (in preparation for a campaign set in a fantasy setting version). Haven't quite got the major rivers figured out (rivers like the Mississipi, Nile, Danube, Yellow, etc.) and also need to figure out just how many nations will exist on it, because (according to a separate YouTube video that I got the base image from and takes isostatic rebound into account) the main body would be roughly 9 million square kilometers of land area, pretty close to the size of Europe.

My current plan is to have 3-4 major races living on the continent, along with several others with smaller populations (akin to the 4 major races and a number of extra ones in the PHB). My current list of major races include a subrace of elves, a fungal race like myconids, and a race akin to the khajit from Elder Scrolls based on the extinct thylacosmilus. Bit of a toss up on whether or not to include humans.

Spoiler: WIP Map

Show

Nice map. What is the rest of the World like by the way? I think it would be interesting if the British "Discovered" this continent in the late 18th century, about at the same time as Australia. Without the ice sheets, Captain James Cook could sail right in. Probably in the 19th century some penal colonies would be set up there by the British similar to Australia, and these people would have interactions with the natives, and creatures of the continent which would lead to some interesting situations.

I had some further thoughts. Imagine an alternate Earth that is mostly like our Earth in the 18th century. It on January 17, 1773 when Captain James Cook of the Royal Navy took his ship, the HMS Resolution south of the Antarctic circle, he noted that the ship was enveloped in a fog, and then a glowing curtain of light descended from the sky as his ship sailed through it in a storm. the ship was tossed around for a time and then the waters grew calmer.

A few more days sailing and land was sighted by a crewman in the crows nest. the crew attempted to fire the cannon as a signal but the gunpowder would not ignite. Sailors then tested out their muskets but none of them could fire a shot. Off in the distance a silver dragon was seen flying over the ocean waves. The sound of waves was heard from the distant shore, and the HMS Resolution dropped anchor. Captain Cook ordered a landing party to explore the shoreline, so sailors lowered a row boat into the water and rowed ashore. One of the sailors plants the Union Jack into the sandy beach. Several sailors reported seeing movement in the pine forest beyond the beach, they were being watched, whether by friendly or hostile eyes, we shall soon see.

[Jendekit]

So do you imagine Antarctica as a magical continent? Lets suppose the rest of the world hasn't changed but Antarctica is a magical continent so what happens when James Cook lands on its shore and discovers that cannons and muskets don't work and the land is populated by all sorts of fairy tale creatures? Do the British attempt to colonize Antarctica? What happens if they do?

Nice map. What is the rest of the World like by the way? I think it would be interesting if the British "Discovered" this continent in the late 18th century, about at the same time as Australia. Without the ice sheets, Captain James Cook could sail right in. Probably in the 19th century some penal colonies would be set up there by the British similar to Australia, and these people would have interactions with the natives, and creatures of the continent which would lead to some interesting situations.

My current plan is to have the rest of the setting's world be modeled after Earth during either the Cretaceous or Eocene, in a late Medieval/early-Renaissance era high fantasy type setting. The Antarctica continent I'm planning on having 3-4 major races and 4-5 minor races (akin to the setup in the 5e PHB). The confirmed main races (still in the early stages mind you) include a fungal myconid-inspired race, an elven subrace, and a beastrace inspired by thylacosmilus (the last beastie in the earlier spoilered images). Still figuring out the other races, as well as whether humans will be present as a native people.

In the area that the PCs first enter the land, the dominant religion consists of a trinity of extremely powerful, impartial, and uncaring deities: Alkira the sun goddess, Moroth the night/winter god, and Taerok the deity of transitions and death. Each one is dominant during one third of the year, rather obvious when for each.

I had some further thoughts. Imagine an alternate Earth that is mostly like our Earth in the 18th century. It on January 17, 1773 when Captain James Cook of the Royal Navy took his ship, the HMS Resolution south of the Antarctic circle, he noted that the ship was enveloped in a fog, and then a glowing curtain of light descended from the sky as his ship sailed through it in a storm. the ship was tossed around for a time and then the waters grew calmer.

A few more days sailing and land was sighted by a crewman in the crows nest. the crew attempted to fire the cannon as a signal but the gunpowder would not ignite. Sailors then tested out their muskets but none of them could fire a shot. Off in the distance a silver dragon was seen flying over the ocean waves. The sound of waves was heard from the distant shore, and the HMS Resolution dropped anchor. Captain Cook ordered a landing party to explore the shoreline, so sailors lowered a row boat into the water and rowed ashore. One of the sailors plants the Union Jack into the sandy beach. Several sailors reported seeing movement in the pine forest beyond the beach, they were being watched, whether by friendly or hostile eyes, we shall soon see.

If there are no objections, I am going to use this as the start of a campaign.

[Tom Kalbfus]

Jendekit, you can do whatever you want with your setting, I am just raising some possibilities. I don't know why you want to use Antarctica as your fantasy setting, it is just a continent. As a continent, if you remove the glaciers, it is a blank slate, you can do whatever you want with it. Antarctica, unlike the other six continents on Earth, has no native people or cultures to exploit. You can put whatever you want there.

I one time contemplated a magical North America, but then people here complained that I was being i sensitive to native peoples of North America by rehashing European colonialism in a fantasy setting. But what if I used Antarctica instead? The discovery of the seventh continent came fairly late in human history, and when it happened, it was done by the British.

So imagine a bunch of British red coats landing on the shores of this fantasy Antarctica, they have their muskets, whether the work or not, they have their fife and drum squads, and they will be dealing with dragons, fantasy races and real magic. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for those poor Brits, even through we did fight a war of independence against them in the American Revolution.

We have the full might of the British Empire in the 18th century arrayed trying to conquer this fantasy continent, as they have conquered so many other places. Seems like an opportunity for many adventures here, there will be struggle, there will be conflict, and it is not clear what the outcome would be.

Besides you presented this as a what if scenario, if you don't want to do this, i would like to create my own thread with this idea. I'd much rather work on your scenario, but just having fantasy creatures and humans in the Creteaceous for no particular reason, doesn't seem very interesting other than you want to throw a few dinosaurs at them. I think the British redcoats and their organization make much more formidible opponents for fantasy creatures than a bunch of dumb old dinosaurs, but that is just my opinion, you do what you will with your setting and let me know. I would like to work with you If I can.

There is also no reason why we can't have dinosaurs either, you could use magic to explain why they are there, i just think it would be interesting to have the British and other colonial powers of thry 18th century interacting with them, that is my idea.

Also note that doing so requires raising the sea levels considerably.

Only if we stick with science, if we want to make this a fantasy setting, we can magic the ice sheets away without raising the sea levels. We can leave the rest of the World just as it was in the 18th century at the time Antarctica was discovered, and let the 18th century world deal with this new continent however they can. This is what I'm arguing for.

[Lleban]

Even if Fantasy Antarctica is fairly temperate it'll be very difficult for European style agriculture to make a foothold, rendering settlement....difficult to say the least.

[Tom Kalbfus]

Even if Fantasy Antarctica is fairly temperate it'll be very difficult for European style agriculture to make a foothold, rendering settlement....difficult to say the least.

There is plenty of sunlight during the summer months and there is plenty of fossil evidence of plant life on Antarctica when it was warm enough for such things. Have youo ever seen Walking with Dinosaurs? There was an episode on Antarctic Dinosaurs.

[Lleban]

There is plenty of sunlight during the summer months and there is plenty of fossil evidence of plant life on Antarctica when it was warm enough for such things. Have youo ever seen Walking with Dinosaurs? There was an episode on Antarctic Dinosaurs.

Plant life will definitely thrive, however, I'm not convinced that the cereal crops Europeans used for food would, at least without a fairly intensive breeding program. And yes, Spirits of the Ice Forest was my favorite WWD ep.

[Tom Kalbfus]

Plant life will definitely thrive, however, I'm not convinced that the cereal crops Europeans used for food would, at least without a fairly intensive breeding program. And yes, Spirits of the Ice Forest was my favorite WWD ep.

Certainly people can eat animals that eat the plants that exist. Grains didn't exist much during the time of Spirits of The Ice Forest, but then again, neither did humans for that matter. If you are going to have a Tolkeinesque style fantasy set back in the days of the dinosaurs, you are going to have to import a lot of things, otherwise you just won't have people and therefore no castles, no magic, no elves, dwarves, trolls, orcs, fairies or dragons. The world of Mystara was set back in the days of the dinosaurs as well, but they replaced most of the dinosaurs with modern and mythological beasts, and just left a few places like the Island of Dread for Dinosaurs to stomp around in.

[Mechalich]

Plant life will definitely thrive, however, I'm not convinced that the cereal crops Europeans used for food would, at least without a fairly intensive breeding program. And yes, Spirits of the Ice Forest was my favorite WWD ep.

There's still probably enough time to squeeze in a growing season for certain crops. Rice only takes 4-5 months, so it's probably doable in a temperate Antarctica, at least on the coast.

Also, while it would take considerable work to adapt existing cereals and vegetables to the unusual growing season of Antarctica, assuming the continent has just not been frozen for the past 23 million years, there should be native plants that are better adapted to the conditions that could potentially be repurposed for use by human settlers. Tasmania has several native plants - mostly berry bushes - that would likely have relatives in a green Antarctica and could be cultivated.

[sandmote]

Any thoughts on the sapient life?

I think it's worth noting fishing and a caribou-like farmed animal would be usable sources of food during the winter. Even without Scandinavian levels of snow, they'd likely be a large portion of the diet during winter months. Foraging for food is likely to be common, with fruits being made into preserves and vegetables being pickled, as population density is usually low and it can be done in the middle of the growing season.

I expect the primary export to be furs and fish. Timber depends more on rainfall. With magical excavation equipment, likely also Antarctica's coal and iron deposits. Maybe enough iron to justify magic based smithing among the natives?

For government, probably small, decentralized tribes. Any centralization of power into city states or organized tribes would likely be around the Antarctic peninsula, and the coasts blocked by the Ross, Filchner, and Ronne ice shelves IRL.

[Tom Kalbfus]

I would like some feedback on a WIP map I plant to use for this green Antarctica (in preparation for a campaign set in a fantasy setting version). Haven't quite got the major rivers figured out (rivers like the Mississipi, Nile, Danube, Yellow, etc.) and also need to figure out just how many nations will exist on it, because (according to a separate YouTube video that I got the base image from and takes isostatic rebound into account) the main body would be roughly 9 million square kilometers of land area, pretty close to the size of Europe.

My current plan is to have 3-4 major races living on the continent, along with several others with smaller populations (akin to the 4 major races and a number of extra ones in the PHB). My current list of major races include a subrace of elves, a fungal race like myconids, and a race akin to the khajit from Elder Scrolls based on the extinct thylacosmilus. Bit of a toss up on whether or not to include humans.

Spoiler: WIP Map

Show

Mind if I borrow this map for my campaign, Fantasy Antarctica II? It is a map of modern Antarctica without the ice, though I imagine the winters are still cold. The mountains are covered in ice ad snow. Trees tend to be pines.

[Jendekit]

Mind if I borrow this map for my campaign, Fantasy Antarctica II? It is a map of modern Antarctica without the ice, though I imagine the winters are still cold. The mountains are covered in ice ad snow. Trees tend to be pines.

By all means, go ahead. Though the map technically isn't modern Antactica. I saw a video about if the ice on Antarctica melted, and it included the effects of isostatic rebound, took a screenshot of that and plugged it into GIMP.

[Tom Kalbfus]

By all means, go ahead. Though the map technically isn't modern Antactica. I saw a video about if the ice on Antarctica melted, and it included the effects of isostatic rebound, took a screenshot of that and plugged it into GIMP.

It's fantasy anyway, in my scenario, this is Antarctica in the late 18th century at about the time of the American Revolution and the rein of King George the third of the British Empire. The fantasy part begins south of the Antarctic circle. This doesn't affect weather patterns or ocean currents. There may even be ice sheets and ice Berg's north of the Antarctic circle. A transition zone composed of a shimmering curtain of light that becomes visible as you approach it allows transition of intelligent creatures Int 2+, to the demiplane of "green Antarctic" not too disimilar to Ravenloft only less creepy. Animals (penguins, seals) don't transition unless accompanied by an intelligent creatures Int 2+ or a magic item. All equipment, animals, whatever within 200 feet of an intelligent creatures also transitions through, those that don't pass through to the frozen Antarctica of our World.

[Tom Kalbfus]

By all means, go ahead. Though the map technically isn't modern Antactica. I saw a video about if the ice on Antarctica melted, and it included the effects of isostatic rebound, took a screenshot of that and plugged it into GIMP.

Another thought of mine is what if Antarctica wasn't on the South Pole, what if we skewed the fantasy Antarctica 45 degrees north of the South Pole so that it was a temperate continent? West Antarctica is to the west and East Antarctica is to the east, the northern coast is the warmest and the southern coast is the coolest.

[Lleban]

Another thought of mine is what if Antarctica wasn't on the South Pole, what if we skewed the fantasy Antarctica 45 degrees north of the South Pole so that it was a temperate continent? West Antarctica is to the west and East Antarctica is to the east, the northern coast is the warmest and the southern coast is the coolest.

Maybe its just me, but taking Antarctica out of the Antarctic circle, kinda removes a lot of the novelty of using Antarctica in the first place. Like the Aurora Austral-is, the verdant green summers, and bleak winters are part of what makes the continent special. Moving it 45 degrees north just makes it a more temperate Australia.