The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2019

    Default Re: Players skip everything - Has this ever happened to you?

    I did it to a GM once. He spent weeks planning out the Hall of Deathtraps that our nemesis was hiding in. When it came time for the session, we defeated the high-level cleric and his minions in 20 minutes... without touching the dice. We literally talked the BBEG into joining our side (with a little help from the Tomb of Horrors doorway that changed alignment). That actually killed the entire campaign, unfortunately.

    As for my players, I had a session where they literally walked past every monster they saw because they were too dangerous. But I run a Sandbox world and all of my monsters and kingdoms are auto-generated by a computer program (Sandbox World Generator - you can download it for free from DriveThruRPG), so I never run out of adventure ideas. They can pick a direction at random and walk that way and the program tells me what's there.

    I would never, ever put a puzzle in my games. That's just an INT check. The real puzzle is how do they use the resources they have to defeat the problem in front of them? Usually they take longer than I would expect to solve the easy problems, and less time than I hoped to solve the hard ones. But as someone else said, the randomness is the point of the game - other wise we'd just be writing novels.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Players skip everything - Has this ever happened to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahzi Coyote View Post
    I would never, ever put a puzzle in my games. That's just an INT check. The real puzzle is how do they use the resources they have to defeat the problem in front of them? Usually they take longer than I would expect to solve the easy problems, and less time than I hoped to solve the hard ones. But as someone else said, the randomness is the point of the game - other wise we'd just be writing novels.
    Modern teaching best practices says to mix up your delivery method. Not just because different people learn better from different methods, but because our ADD modern societies find samey instruction too boring to pay attention to.

    Similarly, I find (brief) puzzles, riddles, etc, to be a welcome "change of pace" from tactical elf games. Similar to the value of "talky bits" or "plot".

    Removing all of these takes us back to war games, which, while I enjoy them, I find them inferior to RPGs.
    Last edited by Quertus; 2019-12-07 at 07:36 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: Players skip everything - Has this ever happened to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahzi Coyote View Post
    I would never, ever put a puzzle in my games. That's just an INT check. The real puzzle is how do they use the resources they have to defeat the problem in front of them? Usually they take longer than I would expect to solve the easy problems, and less time than I hoped to solve the hard ones. But as someone else said, the randomness is the point of the game - other wise we'd just be writing novels.
    Oh, I love puzzles.

    However the puzzles I find interesting tend to be very rare. Therefore not many end up in my game.

    The one puzzle I'm currently most excited about springing to the party is a 4-dimensional maze. I just wonder if I should keep it to 3x3x3x3 or I can go larger.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    False God's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Wyoming
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Players skip everything - Has this ever happened to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahzi Coyote View Post
    I would never, ever put a puzzle in my games. That's just an INT check. The real puzzle is how do they use the resources they have to defeat the problem in front of them? Usually they take longer than I would expect to solve the easy problems, and less time than I hoped to solve the hard ones. But as someone else said, the randomness is the point of the game - other wise we'd just be writing novels.
    Ultimately this identifies my issue with puzzles. Puzzles are ultimately a player challenge, not a character challenge. The character challenge boils down to a die roll. So lets skip the puzzle and get to the die roll rather than sitting around until the real people at the table figure out the puzzle.

    Now that's not to say some real people don't enjoy puzzles. And I do try to include some simple puzzles for them, and often I bring physical brain teasers as the puzzles themselves. But the players aren't the ones who are supposed to be solving the puzzle. How do I balance the fact that Jimmy who IRL sucks at puzzles is playing WizardMan who has 22 int? Oh yeah it's a die roll. *sigh*

    I've generally compromised by including a puzzle, going round robin through my players giving each a chance to solve it without a die roll, and if noone can, then we move over to die rolls.

    The same issue exists for talking checks. Some players are good talkers. Some characters have high CHA. These are not always the same.
    Knowledge brings the sting of disillusionment, but the pain teaches perspective.
    "You know it's all fake right?"
    "...yeah, but it makes me feel better."

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2017

    Default Re: Players skip everything - Has this ever happened to you?

    That's why the spell "Find the Path" is banned at our table.
    When all else fails, find an Artificer, they will get it done!

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