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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Incidentally, do you even know what a Loodle is?
    This sort of Loodle?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Norbert View Post
    Bingo. Good to see someone else who gets that.

    Y'know, I wonder how hard it would be to make PCs in 3.5e that at least resemble the combat style of some of the characters in Hollow Knight 'cause it feels like Swordsage would fill most if not all of Little Ghost's attack abilities save the Cyclone Slash and even that might have a way of working around it. I dunno.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  3. - Top - End - #573
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Incidentally, do you even know what a Loodle is?
    Not till Norbert posted the link
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Both "the need of the many" and "there's only one right path" sound fitting for her afterlife, solely based on the foundation idea.
    I agree, looking at the other ones none of them seem close to Miko.

    Bwahahaha, my master plan to get us to talk about Miko cause I want to see a Miko arguement gosh darnit is working!
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Not till Norbert posted the link
    Well they jump around like crazy so you should get the idea of what I mean now.

    I agree, looking at the other ones none of them seem close to Miko.

    Bwahahaha, my master plan to get us to talk about Miko cause I want to see a Miko arguement gosh darnit is working!
    Lol.
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2019-12-22 at 09:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Bwahahaha, my master plan to get us to talk about Miko cause I want to see a Miko arguement gosh darnit is working!
    What's Miko translated to in other languages? Mechanus seems a better fit than Arcadia; she was more LLG than LGG, bordering on LLN or maybe even LLL.

  6. - Top - End - #576
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    It's the Ninth Side: Right-Eye's daughter and Fyron's son.
    I ship it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    I ship it.
    I got in trouble for shipping it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    I got in trouble for shipping it.
    Why, did FedEx send you a cease-and-desist?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    Why would cross section require particles
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Because you are trying to measure the area where a particle you've just blown up, or accelerated to a close to c, might have crossed. Thus why they use barn, a absolutely tiny area (as in "you couldn't hit the side of that barn", as applied to trying to hit a uranium nucleus with a helium nucleus).

    Grey Wolf
    Yeah, in this case the term is being used in nuclear physics, so one area where it might pop up is throwing a bunch of alpha particles at another nucleus to see how big it is, as Grey Wolf says. That’s why it’s called cross section, because in that case it’s fairly analogous to the geometric concept. Another might be to see how much of a radioactive mass decays away into another element, which is a little further afield, but still a cross section of sorts.


    Peelee’s Lotsey

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Indeed. That was always my guess until that strip came out, at which point a started to wonder.
    I still think Arcadia. "The needs of the many..." caption is a readily identifiable pop-culture quote that fits closely with that planes ethos, but it's not like it's the only way to manifest the "rides the line between Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral" thing that is Arcadia.

    And if nothing else, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is essentially "there is only one right path," with some more specifics added on. It's utilitarianism in a nutshell, including the attendant assumptions that A) more people is more important than fewer people and B) beneficial outcomes are more desirable than detrimental ones. In other words, there's only one right path, defined as the course of action which provides the largest net benefit, with quantity of people given the most weight.

    Plus, for all of Miko's strident unpleasantness, her dogged opposition to the protagonists, and her spectacularly poor judgement in the last day or two of her life, she was always striving to do the right thing. Even her biggest failure, which prompted the gods themselves to strike her with a literal bolt of judgement from the heavens, was an attempt to protect her homeland from nefarious influence. Her intentions were noble and righteous, but in her haste and arrogance, she appointed herself judge, jury, and executioner and thus blinded herself to the wrongness of her actions.

    Based on everything I've ever read regarding Planescape, Arcadia seems to run on the idea "if you set up the rules properly, beneficence will arise naturally from obedience, so the key thing is to create the right rules and enforce them properly." Which is Miko to a T.[SIZE=1] (Bytopia, by contrast, says that if you can persuade everyone to act with good intentions and empathy, order will naturally arise. Celestia takes the view that the two reinforce each other and therefore must both be actively attended to.)

    (And as a final aside, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" is not a concept that the Great Wheel handles terribly well, since the Evil planes are more of the mustache-twirling, fully-aware-of-their-own-wickedness types. So someone like Miko, characterized by lofty aims ruined via terrible execution (no pun intended), doesn't fit anywhere very neatly.)

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    I ship it.
    If a pairing comes along, you must ship it.

  11. - Top - End - #581
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Norbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Bingo. Good to see someone else who gets that.
    I've put so much time into Hollow Knight and I totally overlooked this, probably because I don't remember any of the names of the non-boss monsters anymore.

  12. - Top - End - #582
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    Yeah, in this case the term is being used in nuclear physics, so one area where it might pop up is throwing a bunch of alpha particles at another nucleus to see how big it is, as Grey Wolf says. That’s why it’s called cross section, because in that case it’s fairly analogous to the geometric concept. Another might be to see how much of a radioactive mass decays away into another element, which is a little further afield, but still a cross section of sorts.
    It's also used in a very similar way in chemical physics, to describe chemical reaction mechanisms. If one chemical particle -- an atom or molecule -- approaches another, a reaction may occur, depending on things like approach vector and the vibrational and rotational states of the particles.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Why, did FedEx send you a cease-and-desist?
    It turns out that the right to Free Speech doesn't extend to the right to Free Shipping.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I've put so much time into Hollow Knight and I totally overlooked this, probably because I don't remember any of the names of the non-boss monsters anymore.
    I mean, there are a total of 165 monsters in the entire game, so it’s not hard to forget one or two.

    Of course I’ve never played it myself, but I’ve seen a lot on the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    It turns out that the right to Free Speech doesn't extend to the right to Free Shipping.
    Heh. Can I sig that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  15. - Top - End - #585
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I mean, there are a total of 165 monsters in the entire game, so it’s not hard to forget one or two.
    Sounds like you never played Pokemon.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    What's Miko translated to in other languages?
    If you're using the strict meaning, it's still "Miko" in all languages; just like "pokémon" is still "pokémon" when translating from Japanese.

    A loser translation would be either "shrine maiden" or "priestess". PM if you want a more in depth explanation as that isn't a topic for the open forum.
    Mechanus seems a better fit than Arcadia; she was more LLG than LGG, bordering on LLN or maybe even LLL.
    I actually think NCE, although as quite an odd duck for the plane.

    I disagree with Rich that one unlawful act doesn't make a person unlawful. I would say that any unlawful act doesn't make you unlawful, but one spectacularly unlawful act can. Her final actions put her well outside the category of "people the generally do lawful things" and her worldview was too warped and inconsistent to meaningfully say that she believed in law or held herself to a code.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    And if nothing else, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is essentially "there is only one right path," with some more specifics added on.
    In my opinion, there's a huge difference in that one is an axiom and the other a conclusion. "There's only one path" strongly implies that the one path is knowable and known. "The needs of the many"/utilitarianism leaves room to ask "What are the needs of the many" and "How are these needs best met?". And since you have multiple people fulfilling multiple needs, there's not really a necessity for the paths of different people fulfilling different needs to look similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Sounds like you never played Pokemon.
    Pokemon are a little easier to remember because you don't merely fight them, you also raise them; thus engaging your memory differently.

    Also, there's a song many of us listened to every day listing all the first generation pokémon.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizatzhaderac View Post
    In my opinion, there's a huge difference in that one is an axiom and the other a conclusion. "There's only one path" strongly implies that the one path is knowable and known. "The needs of the many"/utilitarianism leaves room to ask "What are the needs of the many" and "How are these needs best met?". And since you have multiple people fulfilling multiple needs, there's not really a necessity for the paths of different people fulfilling different needs to look similar.
    I was referring (admittedly very vaguely) to the implication in utilitarianism that there's an optimal solution for any given ethical question one would care to pose. Even if the limits of mortal knowledge, predictive ability, perception, or whatever else make it next to impossible for a human to solve the equation, there should exist an ideal solution: the specific course of action that would definitely create the largest amount of happiness (net, not gross).

    But it is a splitting hairs sort of thing, really

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post



    Heh. Can I sig that?
    Sure :) if you want

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    To the person who wanted to go back to translations:
    Why would a cow ever be neutral??? Are they neutral in your language?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightymosy View Post
    To the person who wanted to go back to translations:
    Why would a cow ever be neutral??? Are they neutral in your language?
    *shrugs*
    Why would a lamb ever be neuter? Ask German.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightymosy View Post
    To the person who wanted to go back to translations:
    Why would a cow ever be neutral??? Are they neutral in your language?
    In English at least, the use of "it" versus "he" or "she" gets a bit fuzzy (heh) with animals. Generally, if the animal is one that's familiar or important to the speaker (a pet, a service animal, sometimes farm animals, especially on smaller, non-factory farms), they'll use "he" or "she". If not, "it" gets used because apathy.

    Of course, this being English, these are loose guidelines at best.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    In English at least, the use of "it" versus "he" or "she" gets a bit fuzzy (heh) with animals. Generally, if the animal is one that's familiar or important to the speaker (a pet, a service animal, sometimes farm animals, especially on smaller, non-factory farms), they'll use "he" or "she". If not, "it" gets used because apathy.

    Of course, this being English, these are loose guidelines at best.
    Bold of you to assume that the word "guidelines" has anything to do with English.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Bold of you to assume that the word "guidelines" has anything to do with English.
    Fun game to play: see how many extraneous words you can add to a three word sentence without relaying any new information.
    Also paraphrasing lyrics.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Fun game to play: see how many extraneous words you can add to a three word sentence without relaying any new information.
    Also paraphrasing lyrics.
    I'm guessing somewhere in the area of "a metric crapload", amirite?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightymosy View Post
    To the person who wanted to go back to translations:
    Why would a cow ever be neutral??? Are they neutral in your language?

    "Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if a cow ever got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about!"
    - Troy McClure, 'The Simpsons'

    This strip ends with a literal cliffhanger ending, no?
    Last edited by greenfunkman; 2019-12-26 at 02:55 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    I still think Arcadia.
    Based on everything I've ever read regarding Planescape, Arcadia seems to run on the idea "if you set up the rules properly, beneficence will arise naturally from obedience, so the key thing is to create the right rules and enforce them properly."
    That's interesting. It's similar to modern thought about incentives (perverse and otherwise). Basically the ideas is that you'll get the outcomes your incentives (intentional and otherwise) reward.

    I'd give some concrete examples but it's hard to do without delving into politics, so lets stick with gaming.

    In 3.5 D&D there was a spell called "spikes". It was a long duration low level cleric buff that turned a wooden weapon into a very superior enchanted weapon. So good in fact that Monks all switched to nunchucks instead of unarmed combat, and a Roy-style character tossed his greatsword that he'd invested many feats into to just use a greatclub, or even a normal quarterstaff or club. While it was in its original form any party with a mid-level cleric would have all melee characters switching out their normal expensive enchanted weapons for nonmagical wooden weapons that cost less than 50gp, some (quarterstaff and club) were entirely free. The buff was in fact so good that it was even worth doing when facing damage reduction, vs using the right metal, DR5 for sure, DR10 was about a wash.

    WOTC responded by reducing the duration to rounds/level and I think raising it a spell level. That meant it might get busted out for an emergency or known difficult fight (say, clay golems when your fighter is optimized in a weapon that isn't blunt). Mostly warriors went back to their old weapons.

    Game developers got the spell outcome they wanted (a buff that was sometimes used to make a wooden weapon better, especially for those that had not heavy feat/wealth investments in a primary melee weapon - this was a cleric/druid spell after all, intended to be used on themself, not Roy or Belkar), once they changed the spell parameters. In 3.0-3.5 conversion the change to Greater Magic Weapon was a similar problem, and the variety of changes both to the spell and how DR worked did pretty much put that spell in the role desired by the game developers in actual play.
    Last edited by Seward; 2019-12-26 at 03:56 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfunkman View Post
    "Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if a cow ever got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about!"
    - Troy McClure, 'The Simpsons'

    This strip ends with a literal cliffhanger ending, no?
    They aren’t really hanging, though.

    I forgot about that quote. Thank you for reminding me.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seward View Post
    That's interesting. It's similar to modern thought about incentives (perverse and otherwise). Basically the ideas is that you'll get the outcomes your incentives (intentional and otherwise) reward.

    I'd give some concrete examples but it's hard to do without delving into politics, so lets stick with gaming.

    In 3.5 D&D there was a spell called "spikes". It was a long duration low level cleric buff that turned a wooden weapon into a very superior enchanted weapon. So good in fact that Monks all switched to nunchucks instead of unarmed combat, and a Roy-style character tossed his greatsword that he'd invested many feats into to just use a greatclub, or even a normal quarterstaff or club. While it was in its original form any party with a mid-level cleric would have all melee characters switching out their normal expensive enchanted weapons for nonmagical wooden weapons that cost less than 50gp, some (quarterstaff and club) were entirely free. The buff was in fact so good that it was even worth doing when facing damage reduction, vs using the right metal, DR5 for sure, DR10 was about a wash.

    WOTC responded by reducing the duration to rounds/level and I think raising it a spell level. That meant it might get busted out for an emergency or known difficult fight (say, clay golems when your fighter is optimized in a weapon that isn't blunt). Mostly warriors went back to their old weapons.

    Game developers got the spell outcome they wanted (a buff that was sometimes used to make a wooden weapon better, especially for those that had not heavy feat/wealth investments in a primary melee weapon - this was a cleric/druid spell after all, intended to be used on themself, not Roy or Belkar), once they changed the spell parameters. In 3.0-3.5 conversion the change to Greater Magic Weapon was a similar problem, and the variety of changes both to the spell and how DR worked did pretty much put that spell in the role desired by the game developers in actual play.

    And then they introduced Mighty Wallop and its Greater cousin in Dragon Magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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