OOTS #1189 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey Watcher]

Did you... did you just give us a cliffhanger by taking characters away from a cliff?

As for the identity of our Mystery Voices, my money's on Serini Toormuck and an apprentice of hers. In this theory, she's not so much for destroying the world, but is considering the classic Destroy the Gate to Keep Anyone from Messing with It move. She's no doubt suspicious, since it looks to her like Soon's heirs broke his oath (and I somehow doubt she'll accept Hinjo's technicality that, without a Gate to guard, the Sapphire Guard and its oaths are dissolved). She might have been willing to leave them be if all they were doing was observing, but they just said reinforcements are coming....

[Mad Humanist]

Okay obviously now we need to start a whole thread dedicated to exploring who the coloured speech bubbles belong to. I wonder how many incarnations that thread will go through.

[catagent101]

I think they are some yet unknown agents of the IFCC. Six comics before this we got a cutscene to the IFCC saying that they're going to get they're "followers' hands dirty" and then we get this. It seems strategically placed to tell us that this is what is going on, or at least be a really misleading red herring.


Also, are O-Chul and Lien tied to the cliff somehow or are these unknown persons carrying them upwards? I first thought the former, but the latter seems more likely to me now.
EDIT: Yeah, they are pretty definitely being carried.

[Anitar]

A being associated with green-ness, who has a role to play in the last book (but no sooner) and very unclear motives...

Yeah, sounds like Redcloak's niece to me.

[Azazyll]

I wonder if they are from the world inside the Snarl?

And love the literal cliff hanger.

I agree that these are almost certainly have something to do with the mystery of the true reality of the Snarl, and therefore no matter how much we guess, we cannot know who they are (or at least their true motivations). We are instead being introduced to a new faction, perhaps connected to old figures (maybe Serini later discovered the truth about the Snarl, for instance), who will be essential to the final book of the comic's overall arc, rather than primarily pointing back to what we have seen previously.

[Sniccups]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this mysterious duo might be Enor and Gannji (the half dragon and lizard from the arena). Able to fly, one wisecracker who doesn't have a complete grasp on the fine details and another who's quieter and happy to follow orders. Plus, if we're into the last book, it'd be a good way to loop round to Elan's anti-Tarquin plan that they're supposedly helping Ian with... and Tarquin is pro-reality.

I really don't think it is. For one, neither would call the other "boss".

[Draconi Redfir]

My guess is our invisible friends are some kind of gate-guardians protecting the final gate. that's why "Existing" was fun while it lasted, they were probably created to protect the gate, and will cease existing if it gets destroyed.

possibly trying to forcibly recruit the paladins to help them. hard to say.

[PrismCat21]

Well... Feb. 3rd is my birthday, so I guess that'll be a pretty good gift for me :)
I'm going to go with some sort of caretakers for the final Gate and all the besties protecting it. Someone needs to be there to maintain the balance of beasties and make sure they don't just wipe each other out.

Thanks for the big final page of the book Giant!

[Psychronia]

Quite a way to end a book.

Well, the MitD's little ploy is somewhat backfiring, it seems. Well, unless Xykon somehow actually dies because of it.
Regarding the voices, I'm gonna say...something with Serini?

[Analytica]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this mysterious duo might be Enor and Gannji (the half dragon and lizard from the arena). Able to fly, one wisecracker who doesn't have a complete grasp on the fine details and another who's quieter and happy to follow orders. Plus, if we're into the last book, it'd be a good way to loop round to Elan's anti-Tarquin plan that they're supposedly helping Ian with... and Tarquin is pro-reality.

This is my belief also.

[Vingelot]

Well, the MitD's little ploy is somewhat backfiring, it seems. Well, unless Xykon somehow actually dies because of it.

But he's making a valiant effort to remain unexposed, at least chop chop

[Themrys]

I say it's elves.

Those arrows they attacked with? Arrowhead shape, just like stone arrowheads farmers found in the middle ages and called "elf arrows".

Using sort-of-lies by implying something that they go back on, but avoiding to outright state a lie? Check.

Invisible and unwilling to be seen by humans? Check.

More spirit than human - see speech bubbles.

I would be very disappointed if this wasn't a mysterous tribe based on the historical beliefs about elves, belonging to a previous creation that was forgotten about.



Poor MitD didn't really think that through!

It would, perhaps, have been cleverer to just mark one wrong door after each excursion, and hope they don't notice they do the exact same thing again. (Didn't someone mention that the monsters respawn?)

On the other hand, if Xykon stays that stupid and doesn't notice anything, he might get himself killed, which would be a win.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I cannot believe I am the first to post this.

Dun Dun DUNNN!!

[SlashDash]

That was unexpected for sure. So many potential "bam" ending he could have tossed - and he found something even better!

I didn't consider the possibility that Redcloak would do the math and realize something is off with the doors. Very cool indeed.




My guess is that these are completely new people. They have nothing to do with Serini, the IFCC and whatever.

They are entirely something new.

Can't help but wonder, did they wait until now for some reason? Was the sending their trigger? Cause Lien said the Oots was coming in 2 days. Perhaps they wanted to know more about them?



I also found it hilarious that they basically took down the paladins cause they're invisible. When Haley was ranting about everyone they face having invisibility purge.

[Edric O]

Huh. That's not the cliffhanger I expected. I expected that Xykon would find the gate...

[Edward15]

Got to say, that wasn't how I thought the book would end. I was expecting the final strip to feature Xykon and his team discovering the Gate (despite the MitD's efforts), and ready to begin their plan. After all, nothing sets up the excitement of the final book more than the main villain being trumphant.

Also, I do hope the bonus features in the coming book explain why the Sphinx Pox was mentioned it it wasn't going to play any part.

[The Shadow]

I don't think these guys are related to any side we've heard of yet. They seem to be outsiders, so maybe some of them have gotten suspicious about the memory wipes?

[Windscion]

I do not believe this is IFCC. They said that Sabine will return with a suitable vessel, probably Haley's father (because Sabine hates Haley), but numerous other possibilities exist, like the angry envoy lady who wants Tarquin dead.

Also, their speach doesn't point to any established factions.

So a new faction is quite likely -- we haven't identified them all. But it might be an old new faction, i.e., serini.

Hard to see how the planet in the rifts could have agents without at least the gods noticing. But then, that planet is a mystery wrapped in an enigma to begin with. The best guess I have it that it is somehow related to the Dark One's new quiddity leaking into the rifts and being shaped by previous creations. Which suggests that the Dark One and Redcloak can be circumvented if the other pantheon's figure all this out.

Addendum: Or the planet is a side effect of the epic magic which formed the gates. Fortunately, the epic arcane caster and divine caster (Durokan and the druid lady) who created the gates are available, insofar as their souls are trapped in Xykon's gem.

[Fish]

What things do we know are color-coded, other than this?

[NobleCuriosity]

I think “minions of IFCC” is the most likely of the speculations I’ve seen thus far. (Of course, they could be someone entirely new).

Reviewing some of the subtler things we know about these GB (Green Bubble) and OB (Orange Bubble):

1) They waited until Lien got the sending from Varsuuvius (and replied) to attack, even though O-chul and Lien have been camped there for quite a while. Why would Serini/Eastern gods/whatever have waited? And they did wait—hence the “finally doing this” thing. IFCC would expect there likely is an incoming sending, and could plausibly want Oots to believe Lien and Ochul were okay, and get them to come to a specific location, or something like that.
2) GB expects this will lead to their non-existence. IFCC seems to want to destroy the world.
3) GB and OB don’t seem to think the paladins would be easy for them to beat in a fair fight, or even an unfair one where the paladins are forewarned but they are still invisible. Why? a) If they did, they could have waited until Xykon and co. went back inside (and then not risk being spotted by the Lich) to attack O-chul and Lien; instead, they used the possibility of getting spotted by Xykon to coerce the paladins into coming quietly. b) They were worried the poisons would be insufficient. That implies that it’s a problem for them if the poisons don't down the paladins. That pretty immediately rules out Serini herself or any kind of god for me—those would be too strong for this to make sense.
4) They knew Lien and O-chul were paladins before Lien mentions it. I wouldn’t expect random northern creatures to know about the Sapphire guard. IFCC definitely has the scrying punch to figure that out easily, but admittedly a number of other sides could as well.
5) OB enthusiastically calls GB “boss.” This rules our Enor and Gannji for me (also, aren’t they still doing pro bono work in the desert?), as well as any other equal “partnership” we already know of (like Tarquin’s team, for example).
6) Based on the second to last panel, they either fly or are really good climbers. That plus the speech balloons suggest they aren’t humanoids.


More forthcoming as I notice them.

[The MunchKING]

I wonder what they meant with "That could've gone better"?

The faster they could get everybody with Neutralize Poison the less damage it will do to their systems. So if they could have immediately talked Lin into surrendering, or better yet she hadn't blocked their second dart, they could have wrapped this up a lot faster and without long-term poison damage to their paladins.

"[Existing was] fun while it lasted" doesn't necessarily mean that's the end of the world is what they want, might be simply what they expect at this point.

Or they assume getting involved in this mess will lead to their non-existence regardless of the rest of the worlds fate. like say Outsiders that merge back with the Plane if they die.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this mysterious duo might be Enor and Gannji (the half dragon and lizard from the arena). Able to fly, one wisecracker who doesn't have a complete grasp on the fine details and another who's quieter and happy to follow orders.

Only Gangor had weird speech Bubbles, and they didn't look anything like the ones in this comic.

[Deuce]

I say it's elves.

Those arrows they attacked with? Arrowhead shape, just like stone arrowheads farmers found in the middle ages and called "elf arrows".

Using sort-of-lies by implying something that they go back on, but avoiding to outright state a lie? Check.

Invisible and unwilling to be seen by humans? Check.

More spirit than human - see speech bubbles.

I would be very disappointed if this wasn't a mysterous tribe based on the historical beliefs about elves, belonging to a previous creation that was forgotten about.



Poor MitD didn't really think that through!

It would, perhaps, have been cleverer to just mark one wrong door after each excursion, and hope they don't notice they do the exact same thing again. (Didn't someone mention that the monsters respawn?)

On the other hand, if Xykon stays that stupid and doesn't notice anything, he might get himself killed, which would be a win.

That description would work for some powerful group of Fae as well. Siele Court?

[Elenna]

....soooo many questions...

[CriticalFailure]

I didn't consider the possibility that Redcloak would do the math and realize something is off with the doors. Very cool indeed.

I thought one of the possibilities for the ending might be Redcloak/Team Evil working out that something is off with the doors. I thought the part with Redcloak complaining about not being systematic was hinting that he would.

[Vingelot]

Also, I do hope the bonus features in the coming book explain why the Sphinx Pox was mentioned it it wasn't going to play any part.

I guess it was only mentioned for the sake of joking that it doesn't love Hel enough. Then the internet wouldn't shut up about it.

[KatsOfLoathing]

Thank you, Giant, for that literal cliffhanger ending.

As for the identity of these two assailants... lots to consider here. Put together, their tactics and speech bubbles don't correlate easily to any preexisting faction we know of except maybe the Vector Legion, and taking prisoners doesn't really feel like the VL's style. Colored speech bubbles usually means Outsider, but we've seen exceptions to that before (Enor, Not-Thad, the frost giants), so it could mean anything, really.

I'm inclined to believe these two are Serini and an ally, or two of her allies. She's the only major player left in this conflict left more-or-less unaccounted for, and we're really deep in the plot to have an entirely new faction pop out of nowhere, especially since many of the comic's previous arc villains (Bozzok, the Vector Legion, Hel) were all noticeably foreshadowed in previous arcs, while I can't think of anything that would indicate who these two are. The ambush tactics used here are also fitting for what an epic-level rogue would probably try against two high-level paladins she'd want to take alive.

So if this is Serini... what on earth happened to her in the decades since the Order fell apart? I've seen her alignment pegged as LG before (since she had considered multiclassing into Paladin, unless that was just a gag), and this scene is definitely on the Chaotic and non-Good side of things. That last comment about not existing anymore definitely has multiple interpretations too, none of them very good for our heroes.

February can't come soon enough.

[TriciaOso]

Also, I do hope the bonus features in the coming book explain why the Sphinx Pox was mentioned it it wasn't going to play any part.

The first reference was intended make it clear that after the giants, Hel was very nearly out of tricks--important to communicate when your antagonist is a god. It also was used to set up a joke about Hel's childishness.

Rich then felt obligated to wrap it up because he knew that the fandom would never stop theorizing about it if he didn't.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

These guys could be the forces of chaos/order/neutrality/some other force of nature kind of thing. Most of the weird speech bubbles so far are I think outsiders or otherwise not entirely living people of some sort.

But I don't have a good guess at what they might want or how or why.

I am putting my money on the long shot though: I say this is the faction that's going to kill Belkar.

[Ghosty]

That's an impressive poison if it can get through O'Chul's ridiculous Con score AND paladin resistance

"Paging Security Officer Worf. Security Officer Worf to the Plot Climax immediately."...

I didn't think O-Chul even had a Fortitude save. It just says "Yes, he made it."

[Psyren]

Serini was a Good character, correct? Poisoning, betraying your words, and throw two unconscious bodies doesn't look like a decent act.

Con poison certainly isn't decent, but that could have easily been a bluff; Con poison doesn't usually knock people out. The two times we've seen it used in OotS (Therkla and Elan), the subject stayed conscious while dying.

As for throwing them, I think they were being carried off by their invisible assailants, not being dropped. "Grab those two" doesn't fit with just chucking them off the cliff, and the voice was coming from midair somewhere near them.

Betraying your words is Chaotic, so I covered that.

I would rule out Eastern Gods too, too much deus-ex-machina and quite a stretch believing the other pantheons would not feel them.

Agreed - not only would they have to somehow go unnoticed by all the other gods, but that would imply they've survived, with absolutely no worship, for aeons. It's too much.