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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Double taking subclasses

    So in my campaign i have a rogue that went arcane trickster. Im now level 12 and i was wondering if it is plausible to take the assassin subclass as well? Obviously im over the 3 level requirement. I understand i would replace AT levels but there is no other obligation or requirement right? My dm said it should be fine but i wasnt sure if it was a thing. Combining two subclasses of the same class

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    At level 3, Rogues have the option of choosing a subclass. You're no longer level 3.
    Multiclassing allows you to take a level in a new class. Rogue is not a new class for you.
    Therefore, Rules as Written don't permit this. Except, of course, for the rule that says the DM's judgment trumps the rules.
    “I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.”
    - Lord Havelock Vetinari, Patrician of Ankh-Morpork

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    Stranger in the Playground Moderator Ventruenox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    It is not a thing in 5E. You are only allowed one subclass per class. That said, if your group and DM are good with it, then give it a try and see how it plays at your table.
    Forum Rules. If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    What you are essentially asking for is the ability to rebuild your Rogue with a different subclass, not get two subclasses right?

    This is not supported by the rules, but Adventurer's League supports rebuilding a character up to level 5 and many DMs I know allow rebuilds for various reasons like story, dissatisfaction etc.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    By RAW there are no refunds. Once you take an ASI, a class level a race ecc... you can't change your mind and take another. The only exception is a paladin that goes oathbreaker.

    That sayed most DMs do allow retrains. If you are not happy playing an Arcane Trickster then there is no problem is swapping out the features fo the Assassin's ones.


    The OP is unclear tho. If you want to have 2 subclasses with a single class then no, that's a gestalt and would greatly increase either power or flexibility of your PC. No DM should allow that unless everyone gets double subclass.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by Trandir View Post
    The OP is unclear tho. If you want to have 2 subclasses with a single class then no, that's a gestalt and would greatly increase either power or flexibility of your PC. No DM should allow that unless everyone gets double subclass.
    True points, but I have thought about the idea of Epic Boons providing subclass features. They would have to be taken sequentially, but since they are epic level, I don't think it would be game breaking.
    But to be fair, this is hypothetical, since I've yet to play a 5e character to level 20...

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by Grognerd View Post
    True points, but I have thought about the idea of Epic Boons providing subclass features. They would have to be taken sequentially, but since they are epic level, I don't think it would be game breaking.
    But to be fair, this is hypothetical, since I've yet to play a 5e character to level 20...
    That is intresting and all but the OP is level 12 so it's a bit early for epic boons don't you think?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    micahaphone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Is there a particular part of being an assassin subclass rogue that you wish you had? If it's just one or two parts, it's possible you could work with your DM to get a cool magic item that replicates the effects, or have some downtime training with a master. Both of these would work great as a quest reward.

    If you mean that you want to multiclass but into rogue(Assassin), then no, the rules don't work like that and it would be very clunky. For example, what would you do when you're level 12 arcane trickster, and level 5 assassin? You can't get the Uncanny Dodge feature a second time.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by micahaphone View Post

    If you mean that you want to multiclass but into rogue(Assassin), then no, the rules don't work like that and it would be very clunky. For example, what would you do when you're level 12 arcane trickster, and level 5 assassin? You can't get the Uncanny Dodge feature a second time.
    Rules already have precedent for that; you get nothing the second time.

    I’ve considered multiclassing back into the same class as a potential house rule, specifically in the realm of another subclass since class features don’t stack. But I haven’t done any exhaustive analysis of how’d that actually turn out.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by micahaphone View Post
    Is there a particular part of being an assassin subclass rogue that you wish you had? If it's just one or two parts, it's possible you could work with your DM to get a cool magic item that replicates the effects, or have some downtime training with a master. Both of these would work great as a quest reward.

    If you mean that you want to multiclass but into rogue(Assassin), then no, the rules don't work like that and it would be very clunky. For example, what would you do when you're level 12 arcane trickster, and level 5 assassin? You can't get the Uncanny Dodge feature a second time.
    Lol, lets face it, there is only 1 class feature the assassin has that anyone cares about

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    micahaphone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by sophontteks View Post
    Lol, lets face it, there is only 1 class feature the assassin has that anyone cares about
    Tbh I don't personally care for that feature anyway. How often do you get surprise on the enemy? Maybe I just don't play in stealthy parties, and/or we're too scared to split the party by having the assassin scout ahead.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Expected's Avatar

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by sophontteks View Post
    Lol, lets face it, there is only 1 class feature the assassin has that anyone cares about
    Exactly. In my opinion, Assassin is a trap option and only good in full stealth games with 1-2 players.

    To the OP: Assassin is not a good archetype. It's features (Assassinate, Death Stroke) are impressive in theory, but are difficult to actually use in play. If you lose surprise, you no longer get Assassinate.
    Last edited by Expected; 2019-12-06 at 02:23 AM.

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    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    I played in a one shot where everybody got to choose and keep two subclasses of the same class(with no multiclassing) and it was fun.

    We had a Champion/Battle Master, a Thief/Assassin, a Wild/Draconic, a Diviner/Abjurer, and a Tempest/Light. Funny how nobody chose what would easily been the most OP option which IMO would have been pretty much any two Paladin subclasses.


    Anyway my point is it can work if the DM is ok with it. The hard part is how would you work it in story wise?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Double taking subclasses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane13 View Post
    So in my campaign i have a rogue that went arcane trickster. Im now level 12 and i was wondering if it is plausible to take the assassin subclass as well? Obviously im over the 3 level requirement. I understand i would replace AT levels but there is no other obligation or requirement right? My dm said it should be fine but i wasnt sure if it was a thing. Combining two subclasses of the same class
    1. Such a thing is a pure houserule. Per RAW, RAI and all reason this is not allowed normally.

    2. If your DM is ok with it, and in that specific case, yeah, it should be fine. Your DM should still think a bit more about the fact he would, by allowing that, open a door that could lead to all sorts of headaches for him, especially if on top of that he allows all published content.
    There are several classes that are so frontloaded that it would create a big, big imbalance: notably Cleric (Arcane + Tempest + Grave), Wizard (Bladesinger + War Magic + rest Abjurer means ridiculous resilience), Monk (Open Hand + Drunken for extreme power on Flurry, Long Death + Kensei for stupid resilience), Barbarian (Bear totem + Zealot? Tasty), Sorcerer (Draconic for AC + Shadow for Hound + Divine Soul for Cleric spells), Warlock (Chain + Blade + Tome? Yummy).

    Plus deciding how to rule what you actually get (only subclass benefits? Or it's really like you multiclassed again? For casters this is an incredible boost in spell known/prepared) can lead to big complexity...

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