Least used spells?

[Teaguethebean]

If you have it.

The only 2 who can have it but not scorching ray are swamp druids and alchemists, so a fairly small scope of characters. (I have never seen a swamp druid pc though with artificer's release it may get used.)

[Aussiehams]

This makes me wonder, what spells are mainly designed for BBEG's and NPC's rather than PC's?

[Luccan]

This makes me wonder, what spells are mainly designed for BBEG's and NPC's rather than PC's?

In the thread on spells you would change, someone mentioned an NPC having a spell that was like Simulacrum, but without several of its limits. So there's that.

I have never seen anyone use Friends, for obvious reasons. I'm sure there are those who do, but it just doesn't seem worth taking most of the time and the people I have played with seem to agree.

[Slayn82]

Friends/Disguise Self is a pretty nasty combo to set up someone.

By itself, Friends is a spell that has almost the same effof an intimidation check, but you still are talking nicely the whole time.

Nice way to convince an enemy to surrender, someone to tell the truth, or if you were already gonna use intimidation and turn hostile to the target anyway.

[Sigreid]

The only 2 who can have it but not scorching ray are swamp druids and alchemists, so a fairly small scope of characters. (I have never seen a swamp druid pc though with artificer's release it may get used.)

Sorry, you misunderstand, Scorching Ray isn't always or even usually a default pick for me. There's a decent chance at least my wizard doesn't have it.

[Luccan]

Sorry, you misunderstand, Scorching Ray isn't always or even usually a default pick for me. There's a decent chance at least my wizard doesn't have it.

But do you usually choose Melf's acid arrow instead? I'm not necessarily in the "acid arrow is garbage" camp, but if the only reason you're using the spell is that you don't have the other and somehow acquired Melf's without choosing it on level-up or purchasing it when Scorching Ray was also an option, then it's not a particularly strong point in Acid Arrow's favor.

[Sigreid]

But do you usually choose Melf's acid arrow instead? I'm not necessarily in the "acid arrow is garbage" camp, but if the only reason you're using the spell is that you don't have the other and somehow acquired Melf's without choosing it on level-up or purchasing it when Scorching Ray was also an option, then it's not a particularly strong point in Acid Arrow's favor.

I don't think I've ever picked Acid Arrow, but I've had it come up on more than one character in a looted spellbook. I don't consider either an A list spell, but you copy spells you wouldn't normally pick because the time for that spell may come up. That was really my only point. It's possible, and even easy for a wizard in a party about to deal with trolls to have gotten acid arrow from somewhere and not have a better option. And it's a pretty good option for trolls if that's all you got to shut down their regeneration.

[HiveStriker]

Hmmm. Wouldn't Disguise Self work just as well for that? Better, actually. Being non-concentration means that you can do both DS and Enhance Ability - Cha at the same time.

The concentration is probably the reason I don't see it getting much use. If you want to breath water, Water Breathing is only 1 level higher, a ritual, non-concentration, lasts longer, and effects the whole party.

If you want a magical melee attack, Magic Weapon is the same level and lets you do at least as much (average) damage (when combined with your regular weapon attack). Same level, same duration.

Alter Self isn't a bad spell. It's just that there are other spells that can do everything it does, but are all better at that thing. I guess it's got good flexibility, though.

I'll have to strongly disagree on this.

Alter Self is much, much better than Disguise Self and totally worth the concentration. Three reasons to that.
1. Disguise Self auto-fails any physical inspection or "close look", because it justs "makes you look like". In a way, it could be argued even worse than using a disguise kit...

2. Alter Self is much wider in possibilities, since it allows also to change height and weight (only limitation is "keep basic form and size category") on top of everything allowed in Disguise Self.

3. Biggest thing: as an action you can freely change up to everything in your alteration while the spell lasts (in addition to allowing to completely change the option).

This makes it an invaluable spell for a spy or other kind of mischiever, at least until/unless you start going against factions that heavily use magic and as such also know how to see through most tactics based on it.

I often take it on a Sorcerer that I build as a spy, and I very often pick it on an Arcane Trickster.

[ZorroGames]

Tenser's Floating Disk.

So few games use encumbrance in a meaningful way.

Our Wizard uses it every game. He (player)/she (character) uses it even though our DM handwaves encumbrance. Role Player mindset with an eight strength character?

[NNescio]

Our Wizard uses it every game. He (player)/she (character) uses it even though our DM handwaves encumbrance. Role Player mindset with an eight strength character?

Why walk when you can float around in style?

(And not needing to lug around stuff, that too. Useful when you need to haul around lots of loot, especially things the DM didn't expect to count as loot [hacked off Adamantine door sections being an old classic]. Can also be weaponized by a creative player.)

[HiveStriker]

Our Wizard uses it every game. He (player)/she (character) uses it even though our DM handwaves encumbrance. Role Player mindset with an eight strength character?

Or gentfulness to carry a friend so the latter can take a short rest while party advances... :)

[ZorroGames]

Or gentfulness to carry a friend so the latter can take a short rest while party advances... :)

Yeah... no, that has never happened!

[micahaphone]

Across multiple campaigns my friend group loves Tenser's floating disk. Caster rides on a mount, making a zero weight wagon for the injured allies or loot. Someone can do downtime activities like resting or scribing because it's a smooth even ride, or one time our party bypassed a good chunk of a dangerous volcano path when the wizard with spider climbing slippers ferried us across the lava while walking on the walls.


Because we're mentioning our anecdotal experience, I have never seen anyone cast Absorb Elements. I know it's highly recommended, maybe the casters in my parties feel they don't see elemental damage often enough to take it.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Yeah... no, that has never happened!

It happens a lot if you are in a party with a lot short rest classes.

But if you have a portable hole it works better (just make sure to open it every few minutes to refresh the air).


You can also make a disk train with 2-3 casting if only one member is capable of flight to pass a river.

[Chronos]

Step 1: Gnome wizard casts Tenser's Floating Disk.
Step 2: Half-orc barbarian ties gnome to end of 10' pole.
Step 3: Half-orc sits on Disk, and holds pole.
Step 4: ???

But yeah, Weird has to be up there. It's the highest level, so most casters will never even get the chance to try to cast it. And even if you can, it sucks.

[Fuzzy Logic]

Detect traps should be pretty high up in the least used category.

Our cleric cast that once. We had to stop the game so we could all have a rant about how it was a serious contender for worst spell in the game.

[Witty Username]

Lightning bolt is probably the spell I feel most sorry for, I almost never take it because of how often fireball is better.

[JumboWheat01]

I always liked Lightning Bolt over Fireball. But then again, I have a weird fascination for Line/Wall spells over other types of AoE.

[Sniccups]

Alter Self. Witchbolt. Secret Chest. Detect Poison and Disease. Calm Emotions.

Not all horrible spells, but I've never seen anyone use them.

You've seriously never seen anyone use Alter Self? (My group generally doesn't use it for combat, just for roleplaying purposes.)

Unrelated: What's with Weird? Is there any reason to use it? Are there any other 9th level illusions?

[Eldariel]

It's right up there with Imprisonment. It's a decent plot devise, but no 17+ party I've ever seen would waste the time and expense on using it when killing the target will be 9/10 easier to do.

Killed enemies of any relevance are 100% to get resurrected on higher levels though. Much harder to free an imprisoned, permapolymorphed newt.

[Guy Lombard-O]

You've seriously never seen anyone use Alter Self? (My group generally doesn't use it for combat, just for roleplaying purposes.)

Unrelated: What's with Weird? Is there any reason to use it? Are there any other 9th level illusions?

Never. Not once.

I'm not saying it's a bad spell or anything. And HiveStriker provided a rousing defense of it as an infiltration spell. I guess I've always seen people handle such situations with disguise self and invisibility instead.

[Sigreid]

Killed enemies of any relevance are 100% to get resurrected on higher levels though. Much harder to free an imprisoned, permapolymorphed newt.

That's why you need a hellfire iron weapon to not just kill them but turn them into the lowest of devils.

[Luccan]

I could see Alter Self getting more use on a gish in a game with few magic items. It's an adaptable spell, but that Concentration is rough.

Edit: Also, probably a better option than Disguise Self for a Sorcerer, in the long run, since it does have more utility.

[Willie the Duck]

Unrelated: What's with Weird? Is there any reason to use it? Are there any other 9th level illusions?

Weird is an odd one (self-evident, I suppose). It's a high level Illusionist spell from back in 1e AD&D -- back when there were not specialists of every school, but instead exactly two (2) classes in the Magic User bracket: Magic User (wizard by today's standards), and Illusionist. They each had separate, not-all-that-overlapping spell lists, and at upper levels, there was something of a dearth of good ideas (particularly when some things we now think of as iconic illusion spells were already Magic User spells which happened to be in the illusion school).

The spell, came out in the book Unearthed Arcana (1e's Xanathar-like book), and read like this:

"Weird [1e]
Level: 7 [highest for illusionists]
Range: 3"
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: 2" radius
Components: I! S
Casting Time: 7 segments
Saving Throw: Special
Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast the illusionist must be able to converse with the subject or subjects to bring the dweomer
into being. During the casting, the illusionist must call out to the subject or subjects, informing one or all that their final fate, indeed their
doom, now is upon them. The force of the magic is such that even if the subject or subjects make their saving throw, fear will paralyze
them for a full 7 segments, and they will lose from 1-4 strength points from this fear, although the lost strength will return in 7 rounds. Failure to save versus spell will cause the subject or subjects to face their nemesis, the opponent(s) most feared and inimical to them. Actual combat must then take place, for no magical means of escape will be possible. The foe fought is real for all intents and purposes. If the subject or subjects lose, then death occurs. If the weird caused by the dweomer is slain, then the subject or subjects emerge with no damage, no loss of items seemingly used in the combat, and no loss of spells likewise seemingly expended. The characters gain experience for defeating the weird if applicable. Although each round of combat seems normal, it takes but 1 segment of real time. During the course
of the spell, the illusionist must concentrate fully upon maintaining it."

So... pretty much a high-level version of Phantasmal Forces/Killer, but with an even-more-odious concentration mechanic. I can see why they didn't keep it as-is. What it is now is clearly under-tuned for the level, which is unfortunate, and I also suspect finding a high-level illusion spell is the primary reason.

[Eldariel]

Alter Self was the first level 2 spell my Wizard learnt. He needs disguise & water breathing and that handily solved both.

[Flashkannon]

I have never, despite being in a level 20 campaign where our DM throws enemy spellcasters of similar or higher level at us, ever seen anyone actually cast Time Stop. It seems... way too niche in its powered-down form, for being the ability to actually stop time.

[Luccan]

I have never, despite being in a level 20 campaign where our DM throws enemy spellcasters of similar or higher level at us, ever seen anyone actually cast Time Stop. It seems... way too niche in its powered-down form, for being the ability to actually stop time.

Yeah, not actually being able to take advantage of the stopped time except to buff yourself or run feels like it misses the mark.

I've never seen nor do I imagine a player casting Wish to achieve any effect other than lower-level spells unless they were in what was expected to be the absolute last fight of the game. It just isn't worth the risk, especially if you aren't a Wizard (who could actually learn more 9ths to replace it before level up)

[micahaphone]

I have never, despite being in a level 20 campaign where our DM throws enemy spellcasters of similar or higher level at us, ever seen anyone actually cast Time Stop. It seems... way too niche in its powered-down form, for being the ability to actually stop time.

It's a good BBEG spell to have, it lets them escape when the party has interrupted the ritual and killed their second in command. Classic evil wizard shenanigans. For extra evilness, let them cast a modified Glyph of Warding or Symbol on the ground as a part of it. A final parting taunt.

[Sniccups]

(snip)
So... pretty much a high-level version of Phantasmal Forces/Killer, but with an even-more-odious concentration mechanic. I can see why they didn't keep it as-is. What it is now is clearly under-tuned for the level, which is unfortunate, and I also suspect finding a high-level illusion spell is the primary reason.

For a high-level illusion... why not something like Microcosm?

[Chronos]

Alter Self does have some advantages over Disguise Self, but also some disadvantages: The former changes only you, not your clothing or equipment. You can make your face look like that of a noble courtier, but you'll be a noble courtier wearing dirty, tattered armor and a leather backpack.

I think that the biggest problem with the original version of Weird was, first, in figuring out just what the target's greatest fear is, and second, how to have a combat with it. Sure, if someone's dracophobic, then you throw the nastiest dragon in the book at them (it is the greatest fear, after all). But that's not really very fair, compared to the guy who's afraid of spiders. And what about the immortality-seeking wizard whose greatest fear is old age?