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    Default Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Rather than resurrect the five-month old thread:



    So, every single concern I had about them changing up the plot for generic-ness? All gone - this actually looks like a very faithful recreation of the animated film, at least in the important respects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Hmm, looks like they're expanding the roles of the villains a bit... which is probably a good thing, to be honest. The originals didn't get enough screentime IMO.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Be a maaaaaan
    I will now put this song in your heads 'cause
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    It might be Disney's most awesome song
    Be a maaaaaan
    It sounds just like your teacher or your boss
    If only it didn't stay in your head so looooong
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    So they really are determined to remake their entire catalog of movies instead of new stories?
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    So they really are determined to remake their entire catalog of movies instead of new stories?
    Sure. Why have artistic integrity and value when you can have MONEY!

    Anyway, this looks a lot better than the first impressions led me to believe. I still won't watch it, but if they have to remake Mulan then it's good that it's a good remake at least.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    So they really are determined to remake their entire catalog of movies instead of new stories?
    I wouldn't actually mind remakes of Disney animated movies that didn't do so well first time round (say, Black Cauldron). Ones that had good ideas but didn't quite come together first time round.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    I would quite like a remake of Mulan without the superfluous romance. (Or if she has to marry, can't she marry some guy who, I don't know, didn't leave her to die on a snowy mountaintop?)


    Not sure I want Disney to make something new instead. After all, that new stuff might not be so good, either.

    Maleficent was really interesting (as it wasn't really a remake but an alternative take on the story). They could do that with one of their other standard fairytale thingies.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2019-12-08 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    I wouldn't actually mind remakes of Disney animated movies that didn't do so well first time round (say, Black Cauldron). Ones that had good ideas but didn't quite come together first time round.
    Black Cauldron can be so good if they decided to The Chronicles of Prydain route and if they can center the ages they are catering to just right with the Book / Remakes. The goal should be 8 to 12 maybe 8 to 14, aka the Star Wars demographic [or more recently the Harry Potter demographic.] Make an action movie where the whole family can enjoy it.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    I would quite like a remake of Mulan without the superfluous romance. (Or if she has to marry, can't she marry some guy who, I don't know, didn't leave her to die on a snowy mountaintop?)


    Not sure I want Disney to make something new instead. After all, that new stuff might not be so good, either.

    Maleficent was really interesting (as it wasn't really a remake but an alternative take on the story). They could do that with one of their other standard fairytale thingies.
    Who else would make sympathic-villain remake material? Cruella? Jafar? Frollo? Gaston? The last one could be interesting if you framed it right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Who else would make sympathic-villain remake material? Cruella? Jafar? Frollo? Gaston? The last one could be interesting if you framed it right.
    Ursula? Definitely Ursula with the right story.

    A character who literally steals another woman's voice and thus her animating agency.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Have any of the live action films so far been better than their animated counterpart?

    (I am aware that the films have taken the opportunity to fix up some... problematic areas from the older films, like the Dumbo crows. But leaving that aside as far as possible.)
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Ursula? Definitely Ursula with the right story.

    A character who literally steals another woman's voice and thus her animating agency.
    Ursula's a good candidate yeah.

    As above, I think you could make Gaston work. Really play up how he is the hero of his own story, and make the Beast a proper terrifying monster since that's how the 'protagonist' sees him.

    Jafar is tricky, but if they cast the guy from the latest live-action Aladdin that everyone apparently swooned over and you might get away with it.

    Frollo would be really hard to pull the sympathy card on without dipping into controversial subject matters, so I think we can write him off. Likewise, I'm not sure how you would make Cruella a quasi-protagonist with her exceedingly shallow motivations.

    There's been more Captain Hook-centric movies than I can count, so he's out. Likewise, they already did a Snow White respin if you count SW+The Huntsman, though you might be able to work a more Evil Queen-centric movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Who else would make sympathic-villain remake material? Cruella? Jafar? Frollo? Gaston? The last one could be interesting if you framed it right.
    I say no to jafar and frollo, making them sympathetic would require too massive of a alteration to their characters. Gaston would be great because he is already like 90% protagonist. He is the hero of his village, the primary hunter, the towns defender in his own way. He is genuinely loved and popular and enjoys his life. He falls for this strange girl, the only one in the town that doesnt crawl all over him and is refused. He actually does decently well with the initial rejection, treating it as another "hunt" where he has to figure out the right bait to use. Then she vanishes and only her crazy father seems to know anything but he is ranting about magic beasts and such. She comes back and still refuses him, preferring to marry some ANIMAL rather than him and that final nudge pushes him over the edge.

    Cruella might be interesting in more of a villain origin story rather than a feel bad for me im really a good person story. We get to watch her as a young woman trying to make her way in business and seeing the truly cruel and misogynistic world she is trying to make a name for herself in. She learns fast, after taking a few knives to the back, that the only way to get ahead is over the bleeding bodies of those ahead of you and she learns that lesson well. She starts buying into the mindset, rather than just using their tools against them, she accepts it as the way things are and becomes colder, crueler, and nastier than anyone else on her rise to the top.

    And agreed to ursula, considering her already existing backstory of being tritons sister we could make her super sympathetic. The sister cast out for being born ugly, mocked and ridiculed by her brother and the court in general, eventually cast out after getting caught trying to do something for some petty revenge as a witch. Something along those lines.

    Maybe Scar would work? A lion raised to rule but denied his place by a brother who is better than him in every way, barring maybe cleverness, loses control after his nephew is born, firmly removing him from the succession forever. You could feel bad for him as he lives a meaningless life as the king in waiting at best, not truly able to contribute, or give him a loki vibe.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Ursula? Definitely Ursula with the right story.

    A character who literally steals another woman's voice and thus her animating agency.
    Yeah, Ursula. Wasn't she angry because Triton banished her? There's quite a lot of material there.

    I dimly recall her saying some things to the protagonist that read either as something said by a conservative woman, or a feminist who has been deeply disappointed by men. ("men don't care what you say, your pretty face is enough", or what was it?)


    Jafar ... I don't think I ever saw the full original Aladdin movie, but Aladdin was an impostor, so someone antagonizing him would have a point.


    Frollo ... eh, you totally could make a movie out of that that incels would just love, but I was talking of movies I would like so ... nah.

    Gaston, likewise. Just not really hero material.

    You could do an interesting remake of Beauty and the Beast where Belle realizes that both Gaston and the Beast are terrible, finds out why the Beast was cursed and talks to the enchantress so she frees the servants. (There is a youtube video that claims Gaston is the better option, and while the points about the Beast are true, Gaston's alleged redeeming attributes just don't exist, so ...)

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    On-topic: According to the wikipedia page, the 'witch' is listed as the primary antagonist of the movie, in addition to being created whole cloth for this iteration of the story - there was only Shan Yu/Bori Khan, who IIRC didn't even get any speaking lines in the animated version. It makes sense to have a female antagonist when you're pushing a female protagonist for this kind of story, though I'm not sure how adding in explicit magic will improve things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Who else would make sympathic-villain remake material? Cruella? Jafar? Frollo? Gaston? The last one could be interesting if you framed it right.
    Cruella doesn't work because it's near-about impossible to reinterpret her without making a fully new character with entirely different goals. A rich woman kidnapping and killing someone's dogs to make a fur coat to add to her collection isn't something you can really rationalize with today's audiences. It's utter sadism at worst and amoral greed at best. Unless you're going to paint her as mentally ill, which, while understandable, isn't the kind of sympathy you'd want to evoke for such a movie.

    Jafar could work if you make it more of a Macbeth anti-hero thing. Particularly as the original movie ignores any nuanced political issues and makes Jafar merely a power-hungry usurper, give him more of an external motivation for why he thinks the Sultan needs to be replaced and I think most of your audience can get behind him.

    Frollo shouldn't have been a Disney character in the first place. Yes, he can be sympathetic in a wider everything-is-terrible Victor Hugo sense, but I still don't want to sympathize with the man, for he is awful.

    Hercules' Hades could make a great sympathetic character. Particularly as Hades isn't really a villain in his own mythology - at least relative to the Greek pantheon - but even with the slime-ball James Woods version you could find a more Loki-esque character. I personally would love to see a movie premised on the trials and tribulations of the god of the underworld.

    You could do one with Captain Hook. I've seen several adaptations which re-frame him in a more sympathetic light than being a moustache-twirling buffoon, including Disney's Once Upon a Time. Frankly, Peter Pan makes a better villain for me conceptually, in an amoral fey-like way. Granted by that same token, this has been done.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    On-topic: According to the wikipedia page, the 'witch' is listed as the primary antagonist of the movie, in addition to being created whole cloth for this iteration of the story - there was only Shan Yu/Bori Khan, who IIRC didn't even get any speaking lines in the animated version. It makes sense to have a female antagonist when you're pushing a female protagonist for this kind of story, though I'm not sure how adding in explicit magic will improve things.
    The bad guy had lines, not a ton, but he did. Wasnt he the one who sent off the two captured soldiers then casually asked his archer buddy how many people it takes to deliver a message? He was REALLY not very well explored as a character though, just basically made the face of the oncoming danger that had to be stopped. As for adding a witch, meh, I think that detracts a bit from the whole woman proving she can be equal to the men thing by turning the final battle into a cat fight. (or going by one of the scenes, a bird battle for the brits ) In fact, wasnt mulan one of the few disney films to not give the bad guy a song?
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    Be a maaaaaan
    I will now put this song in your heads 'cause
    Be a maaaaaan
    It might be Disney's most awesome song
    Be a maaaaaan
    It sounds just like your teacher or your boss
    If only it didn't stay in your head so looooong
    According to what I've read, the only song from the original will be Reflections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Hercules' Hades could make a great sympathetic character. Particularly as Hades isn't really a villain in his own mythology - at least relative to the Greek pantheon - but even with the slime-ball James Woods version you could find a more Loki-esque character. I personally would love to see a movie premised on the trials and tribulations of the god of the underworld.
    I wouldn't mind a James Wood Hades re-telling of the Persephone story, although it would require very careful framing to put the whole abduction thing in anything remotely like a neutral act and not accidentally condoning kidnapping and imprisonment via Stockholm Syndrome.

    Even with Beauty and the Beast, Belle went of her own accord (reluctantly, but still un-coerced), which goes a long way to redeeming the imprisonment.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2019-12-08 at 06:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I personally would love to see a movie premised on the trials and tribulations of the god of the underworld.
    Problem is, once you make the necessary changes, the main character would more resemble original Greek mythology than the guy from the Disney movie. And there's already plenty works of art about that - like this comic where Hades is a loner guy who doesn't get along with his fellow gods but is really kind to dead people. https://www.deviantart.com/a-gnosis/...38152873/agafg


    As for Frollo ... that guy is not redeemable in the least, but I just now realized I actually wrote a story where a guy who is a faithful Christian and adopted a child falls in love with a witch. And angsts about it. The similarities end there because the witch is really a witch, and the guy isn't an entitled incel but a genuinely good guy who wants to do what is right ... but perhaps if I make the kid a hunchback, I can still sell it to Disney?

    Why do you think Frollo shouldn't have been a Disney character? I admit to never having seen the Disney movie, (been a while since I read the original book) but from what I've heard, Frollo makes a quite horrible villain ... or is it because he's not exactly child-friendly with his particular brand of evil?
    Last edited by Themrys; 2019-12-08 at 06:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    Have any of the live action films so far been better than their animated counterpart?
    Nope, and there's not much chance they ever will be really. Because, well, an unnecessary remake motivated by fat stacks of cash farmed from the reputation of the original isn't going to be.

    You won't see them remaking things that could have been done better first time around, because those things wouldn't make fat stacks of cash based on the original's reputation..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Yeah, Ursula. Wasn't she angry because Triton banished her? There's quite a lot of material there.

    I dimly recall her saying some things to the protagonist that read either as something said by a conservative woman, or a feminist who has been deeply disappointed by men. ("men don't care what you say, your pretty face is enough", or what was it?)

    "But without my voice how Can I-"

    "You'll have your looks. Your pretty face. And don't forget the importance of body language, ha!

    The men up there don't like a lot of blabber. They think a girl who gossips is a bore! Yes on land it's much preferred for ladies not to say a word, and after all dear what is idle pratter for?

    Come on they're not all that impressed by conversation. True gentlemen avoid it when they can. Yet they dote and swoon and fawn on a lady who's withdrawn. It's she who holds her tongue who gets a man!"

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Muse View Post
    "But without my voice how Can I-"

    "You'll have your looks. Your pretty face. And don't forget the importance of body language, ha!

    The men up there don't like a lot of blabber. They think a girl who gossips is a bore! Yes on land it's much preferred for ladies not to say a word, and after all dear what is idle pratter for?

    Come on they're not all that impressed by conversation. True gentlemen avoid it when they can. Yet they dote and swoon and fawn on a lady who's withdrawn. It's she who holds her tongue who gets a man!"
    Nods if they want to do an Ursula story have her as a person who is an Eris Chaos and Strife discord character. Ursula wants to destabilize the established order either on land and on sea. To do so she is willing to steal the power and agency of anyone who wants to have happiness "within the system."

    She steals from such people for she sees the existing internal system as a bigger theft. Then again if Ursula wins, she is only rebuilding the master house with her on top, and thus thematically you need to also tell the Prince Erik story as well and make him have a story besides being the spoiled Prince who almost died and is going to inherit everything. He needs to see that there is more to reality in order to make it okay for Erik to defeat Ursula in the end, something like a Black Panther story.

    So yeah this may be too complicated for a 90 to 150 minute live action disney movie.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Just watched the trailer.

    Wow. This is the first live-action Disney remake I've had any real interest in seeing. If the trailer is true to the spirit of the movie, this could actually stand on its own legs, rather than just existing as a live-action echo of an animated classic.

    I'm especially pleased to note there's no sign of the Eddie Murphy dragon sidekick. They may just want to keep him as a "surprise," but I'd like to think wiser heads decided to cut him out entirely.

    Looking forward to this one. Hoping they get it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Problem is, once you make the necessary changes, the main character would more resemble original Greek mythology than the guy from the Disney movie. And there's already plenty works of art about that - like this comic where Hades is a loner guy who doesn't get along with his fellow gods but is really kind to dead people. https://www.deviantart.com/a-gnosis/...38152873/agafg


    As for Frollo ... that guy is not redeemable in the least, but I just now realized I actually wrote a story where a guy who is a faithful Christian and adopted a child falls in love with a witch. And angsts about it. The similarities end there because the witch is really a witch, and the guy isn't an entitled incel but a genuinely good guy who wants to do what is right ... but perhaps if I make the kid a hunchback, I can still sell it to Disney?

    Why do you think Frollo shouldn't have been a Disney character? I admit to never having seen the Disney movie, (been a while since I read the original book) but from what I've heard, Frollo makes a quite horrible villain ... or is it because he's not exactly child-friendly with his particular brand of evil?
    Frollo was a very "adult" bad guy in the movie. His entire villain song is about how he lusts for this woman so bad he is praying she either be made his or dies screaming in fire. It was a VERY daring idea to do hunchback of notre dame, even watering it down as they did. Themes of lust and self loathing are a bit much for kids, at least in comparison to the standard ones.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Originally Posted by Aedilred
    Have any of the live action films so far been better than their animated counterpart?
    Cinderella wasn't half bad, though I mainly enjoyed the contrast of actors from Downton Abbey and Game of Thrones sharing the same scenes.

    But if the live-action Mulan even halfway lives up to the promise of this trailer, I'd say it'll leave the animated original far behind.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    I believe they've confirmed there is no Mushu, his role of 'supernatural companion/protector' is occupied by a Phoenix instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I believe they've confirmed there is no Mushu, his role of 'supernatural companion/protector' is occupied by a Phoenix instead.
    This makes me so sad. I been hearing this for weeks / months and my last self bargaining is do not get the dragon and cricket any speaking lines, but let the audience see a small dragon in the background do minor things that change the effect of the plot as a guardian dragon [instead of a guardian angel.]
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Who else would make sympathic-villain remake material? Cruella? Jafar? Frollo? Gaston? The last one could be interesting if you framed it right.
    I feel like that kind of defeats the idea of Gaston. He is the awesome action hero, strong, handsome, confident, except he turns out the bad guy. In a way his story is already presented from an alternative viewpoint. Flip it back and you're left with a heroic dude trying to safe a hostage with Stockholm syndrome from a beastman. Pretty standard material. I'm not sure that qualifies as a surprising story.
    The Hindsight Awards, round 2: Rate the best movies of 1999.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
    I believe they've confirmed there is no Mushu, his role of 'supernatural companion/protector' is occupied by a Phoenix instead.
    Awesome. My hopes are raised ever higher.

    Originally Posted by Traab
    As for adding a witch, meh, I think that detracts a bit from the whole woman proving she can be equal to the men thing by turning the final battle into a cat fight.
    Why does a decisive battle between two powerful women have to be derided as a "cat fight"?

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Awesome. My hopes are raised ever higher.



    Why does a decisive battle between two powerful women have to be derided as a "cat fight"?
    Because women. /serious nod. No but seriously it was more because I had the chance to use bird battle but it needed a setup so I had to use cat fight to set the stage. But I do however actually think that having it be woman on woman kinda takes away from that aspect of standing with the men as an equal. She isnt fighting a warrior, she is fighting a magic tossing tricky witch. Im sure the rest of the film will do fine for that angle though.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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