Crisis On Infinite Earths (CW Arrowverse)

[KillianHawkeye]

WARNING **SPOILERS AHEAD**

So I just watched part one of this year's BIG CROSSOVER.



So far, a lot is happening all at once. Mostly, a bunch of wraith-like creatures attacking a tower in Supergirl's National City, but also it seemed like a lot of time wasted on getting Clark and Lois' kid from an alternate future Oliver.

We find out at the end that Harrison "Nash" Wells was accidentally releasing the Anti-Monitor last week, and now he's some kind of "observer" being forced to watch the Anti-Monitor's reign of destruction. It felt like they didn't really introduce the idea of an Anti-Monitor very well, although I'm not disconnected from social media enough to have missed hearing that it would be a thing. It's from the comics, after all. We haven't actually seen him, yet.

Anyway, I really did not expect

Spoiler

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Oliver to die in the first episode of the Crossover. We knew he was going to die sometime, but I was surprised it happened at the end of the first part. I figured it would happen on the Arrow's episode on Tuesday night.

Oliver did a good job passing the torch to set up his daughter Mia as the next Green Arrow, at least, although I'm surprised that more Earth-1 heroes weren't brought to Supergirl's Earth to help out. I guess they are just saving them for the next parts.

And we finally got a definitive statement that Batwoman takes place on Earth-1, but that was what we were all kind of assuming up until now. And since Crisis is going to be retconning the shows and changing stuff up, who knows? Maybe everybody will end up in the same universe when it's all over? They're even going to bring in Black Lightning, and I haven't watched that show at all since I heard it wasn't part of the Arrowverse line-up (but now it will be?).

[Bartmanhomer]

I saw it. It was a really great crossover.

Spoiler

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Oliver resurrected and went completely bonkers just like Black Canary.

[KillianHawkeye]

Oh damn, I haven't seen the next part yet!

[Bartmanhomer]

Oh damn, I haven't seen the next part yet!

If you have the CW app, you can see all the Crisis episodes plus the app is free.

[Pex]

They really have the hate for Batman, and frankly it's getting on my nerves. I'll accept at face value the Robert Wuhl and Burt Ward cameos were meant as affectionate homages, but the character in general they're really pushing into irrelevancy. How they treated Kevin Conroy's portrayal was uncalled for.

I appreciated the original Superman movie love theme music when we're introduced to Brandon Routh's Superman, but I would hate to think that Superman became Kingdom Come Superman. Superman Returns was supposed to be a sequel, Superman V if you will, to the Christopher Reeve franchise. Kingdom Come does not fit, so for me the music itself is a cameo. R.I.P., but it would have been awesome to have Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder. I'm still hoping for Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher.

[Darth Credence]

They really have the hate for Batman, and frankly it's getting on my nerves. I'll accept at face value the Robert Wuhl and Burt Ward cameos were meant as affectionate homages, but the character in general they're really pushing into irrelevancy. How they treated Kevin Conroy's portrayal was uncalled for.

I appreciated the original Superman movie love theme music when we're introduced to Brandon Routh's Superman, but I would hate to think that Superman became Kingdom Come Superman. Superman Returns was supposed to be a sequel, Superman V if you will, to the Christopher Reeve franchise. Kingdom Come does not fit, so for me the music itself is a cameo. R.I.P., but it would have been awesome to have Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder. I'm still hoping for Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher.

Superman Returns would be a sequel to the Donner cut of Superman II, and would not have anything to do with III and IV. I don't see why Kingdom Come Superman couldn't come from that - it would just take the Joker existing in that world and bringing about the events that led to Kingdom Come.

Everyone know that episode 3 of the crossover is tonight, then it finishes up in mid-January? I didn't until yesterday, and if I had I would have saved them all for next month.

[dancrilis]

So Kate Kane who has been batwoman for a few weeks has also been batwoman for around a year - should this be one of those things that gets blamed on Barry Allen?

Outside of that it seems that many worlds have superman - does Earth 1 have and if not why not or where is he?

I also have to wonder at the impact of dumping a few billion more people on the planet without warning (some of who are likely dopplegangers of other people) - sounds like the kind of thing that would have world governments (and people in general) would respond negatively towards.

[Pex]

Superman Returns would be a sequel to the Donner cut of Superman II, and would not have anything to do with III and IV. I don't see why Kingdom Come Superman couldn't come from that - it would just take the Joker existing in that world and bringing about the events that led to Kingdom Come.

Everyone know that episode 3 of the crossover is tonight, then it finishes up in mid-January? I didn't until yesterday, and if I had I would have saved them all for next month.

Kingdom Come is dark brooding Superman. Christopher Reeve was bright wholesome Superman. They don't fit. If anything Reeve would have spun the Earth back in time again to stop the gas attack. Kingdom Come could have been a Henry Cavill Superman if they didn't fire him.

Spoiler: I'm not crying. You're crying.

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[Bartmanhomer]

Remember kids don't forget that Part 4 will appear on January 14.

[KillianHawkeye]

I was a little disappointed that Kara came all the way to alt-Smallville to meet Tom Welling's Clark Kent but she got zapped away before Erica Durance's Lois came out, because Erica is a doppleganger of Kara's recently deceased mother and they could have had some kind of a moment.

[Imbalance]

Oh, Jim Corrigan.

[Sapphire Guard]

What they did with Bruce was a really strange choice...it's so...casual.

[The New Bruceski]

So Kate Kane who has been batwoman for a few weeks has also been batwoman for around a year - should this be one of those things that gets blamed on Barry Allen?

Mouse escaped with the other Arkham inmates during Elseworlds a year ago. The show started before that point to establish her origin, caught up, and then sped ahead to get her to now skipping over the slow parts.

TV shows follow their own timeline, and aside from fourth wall breaking "we've got a strange murder? Must be Tuesday. *wink* " moments you really should not assume it's moving at one week per week. Usually they'll have some fixed point for a Christmas show, or the CWverse's yearly crossover, but everything else is in flux when it doesn't have to be rigid.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, this sucks, having seent his thread, been reminded that this is coming, getting very excirted and checking to see what we need to check for episode-wise (we only watch Supergirl regularly) - and apparently we in the UK just straight miss out, because Batwoman isn't being shown, we don't get that part, so we have to go bunnies.

FRACK, I hate all this broadcaster crap.

[Telonius]

They really have the hate for Batman, and frankly it's getting on my nerves. I'll accept at face value the Robert Wuhl and Burt Ward cameos were meant as affectionate homages, but the character in general they're really pushing into irrelevancy. How they treated Kevin Conroy's portrayal was uncalled for.

I appreciated the original Superman movie love theme music when we're introduced to Brandon Routh's Superman, but I would hate to think that Superman became Kingdom Come Superman. Superman Returns was supposed to be a sequel, Superman V if you will, to the Christopher Reeve franchise. Kingdom Come does not fit, so for me the music itself is a cameo. R.I.P., but it would have been awesome to have Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder. I'm still hoping for Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher.

I chalk this up to the IP dispute. WB has the rights to Batman for now, and they aren't letting go for anything. It was a real stretch before they got permission to use Superman. Even there, Kingdom Come-Superman had to refer to "some reject from Gotham" instead of using the name "Joker." It was only through a loophole that they were able to get Bruce Wayne (minus batsuit) to appear - since apparently the contract always specified "Batman" and not "Bruce Wayne." (I'm sure a team of lawyers is drafting up a new clause to make sure that never happens again).

[PPA]

I stopped watching Arrow and The Flash seasons ago and never really got into the other shows, but I was hyped to see this crossover. Man, it's SO bad. The production values are very low for the most part and everything is really cheesy. The plot is for the most part very stupid, and they really misuse the characters they hyped as guests.

I mean, I liked the Smallville bit and Brandon Routh as an older Richard Donner's kinda-but-not-quite Kingdom Come Superman was the best part by far, but the Kevin Conroy bit was really, really bad. Also, I actually chuckled out loud at Oliver having a completely full quiver, and then in the next cut having a completely empty quiver just in time to be killed. That whole fight against shadow demons to help the world's population to be evacuated was absurd. I mean, the Kryptonians might have been able to fight for a while, and maybe The Atom, but the Arrows and Batwoman? People made fun of the Avengers because they had Black Widow and Hawkeye facing global threats alongside real superheroes, and here we have a team of just Hawekeyes and Black Widows facing a Mulitverse-destroying threat.

I realize I'm nowhere near these shows' target audience, but man, it's like the Malcom in the Middle meme: I went in with literally no expectations and I was still let down. What a missed opportunity. Sorry for the rant, guys. I understand why people like these shows even if I don't, and I respect anyone who's really enjoying them, but they were just so-bad-they're-funny to me.

[dancrilis]

... but they were just so-bad-they're-funny to me.

I can't speak for anyone else ... but this is why I like them.

They are funny because they are bad - and I quite like funny.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well I enjoy the Crisis so far. They're very well-written. I give it 5 out of 5 stars for an Emmy worthy crossover show.

[Pex]

When they showed Flash as being the Paragon of Love, they nailed it.

[Imbalance]

Nevermind the character cameos; I'm cracking up over how many DC comics crossovers they're cramming into this tv crossover. They're really selling it short just calling it Crisis, when the full title should be more like Kingdom Crisis of Lightpoint 52. I won't be surprised if the they tap One Million or OWAW before the end, but I'd really love to see them throw in a Bloodlines nod.

[Devonix]

I chalk this up to the IP dispute. WB has the rights to Batman for now, and they aren't letting go for anything. It was a real stretch before they got permission to use Superman. Even there, Kingdom Come-Superman had to refer to "some reject from Gotham" instead of using the name "Joker." It was only through a loophole that they were able to get Bruce Wayne (minus batsuit) to appear - since apparently the contract always specified "Batman" and not "Bruce Wayne." (I'm sure a team of lawyers is drafting up a new clause to make sure that never happens again).

I'm a little confused. What IP dispute. WB doesn't have the rights to Batman " For Now " They own the character and everything related to him. This isn't like Disney when they were trying to get different properties, and different companies owned separate rights.

WB has owned DC and everything about it, all characters, all liscences Everything since the 60s

They can use any and all DC characters, names properties forever. They own it all.

[Darth Credence]

OK, the Earth 666 cameo was by far my favorite part of the whole thing. Even if I hated the rest of it (and while there are problems with it, like the fight choreography in the first episode, I'm enjoying it) that scene would have made it all worth it.
And this "Kingdom Come" Superman is still about hope, so he works as a continuation of the Christopher Reeves movies.

[Ranxerox]

I'm a little confused. What IP dispute. WB doesn't have the rights to Batman " For Now " They own the character and everything related to him. This isn't like Disney when they were trying to get different properties, and different companies owned separate rights.

WB has owned DC and everything about it, all characters, all liscences Everything since the 60s

They can use any and all DC characters, names properties forever. They own it all.

Gotham was on Fox so presumably they had television rights to some of the characters. I can't think of a single important character from Gotham that has made an appearance on Batwoman. There has been no James Gordon, Harvey Bullocks, Renee Montoya, Penguin, Riddler, Leslie Thompson or Alfred Pennyworth. Ra's Al Ghul has shown up in both Arrow and Gotham. However, they may have reached a special deal on that one particular character early on, since Arrow and Gotham started at about the same time. So, maybe the TV rights to Batman related characters aren't as straight forward as one might suppose.

[Bartmanhomer]

OK, the Earth 666 cameo was by far my favorite part of the whole thing. Even if I hated the rest of it (and while there are problems with it, like the fight choreography in the first episode, I'm enjoying it) that scene would have made it all worth it.
And this "Kingdom Come" Superman is still about hope, so he works as a continuation of the Christopher Reeves movies.

I get the Earth 666 part. LOL!

[Pex]

I'm only seeing this because I watch Flash. I don't watch nor care about the other so called Arrowverse shows. It did make it a bit difficult following what was going on with the side characters since I didn't know who they were, but I got the gist. They're selling Batwoman hard to get people to watch when they're done here. I'm not sold. I'm almost sorry I don't watch Supergirl.

[Darth Credence]

I'm only seeing this because I watch Flash. I don't watch nor care about the other so called Arrowverse shows. It did make it a bit difficult following what was going on with the side characters since I didn't know who they were, but I got the gist. They're selling Batwoman hard to get people to watch when they're done here. I'm not sold. I'm almost sorry I don't watch Supergirl.

I've watched all of them at one point or another. I gave up on Arrow a couple of years back. Still in for The Flash, although this year has not been great because it has been nothing but preparing for "Crisis". And the way they use the term is getting more annoying every time. Batwoman is, IMO, on the better end of them right now, but that could just be because it is the shiny new one.
But don't be sorry about not watching Supergirl. This is the season I gave up on it, thanks to the worst writing on TV. The episode that made it so I couldn't even maintain watching until the crossover was so, so bad. It was about someone stealing one of Lex's weapons, called the Marathon gun because you could kill someone with it from 26.2 miles away - yes, exactly 26.2 miles. It's a beam weapon, and they say that it is 100 times hotter than the center of the sun - never specifies the units in which it multiplies by that, and who cares that having a 15,000,000 °C beam would set fire to everything around it. The plan to use this weapon was to go to Vostok station in Antarctica, which is over the world's largest subglacial lake (which is about 1/3rd the size of Lake Superior). The thief shot the lake with the gun, which punched a hole in the ice and released all of the water. If they don't stop it, every coastal city in the world will be flooded in just 18 minutes! The water is shooting out of the hole, and Supes and the Martian have to fly around it in the opposite direction to form a whirlpool that will suck it all back in. Meanwhile, Dreamer (a superhero with dream powers) goes to the dock in National City and sees the giant wave stretching across the horizon. She uses her blasting powers that she got from somewhere to blast the wave, holding it back long enough for them to plug the hole, at which point the wave collapses. It's not clear how much of the pacific coasts of the Americas she saves by hitting the wave in one rather small spot, but I got the impression that she stopped the entire thing.
Now, if you read that and said, "eh, comic book show, that's fine", then Supergirl may be for you. If you are banging your head against the wall over it, like I was, then stay away from the current season.

[Jay R]

They really have the hate for Batman, and frankly it's getting on my nerves. I'll accept at face value the Robert Wuhl and Burt Ward cameos were meant as affectionate homages, but the character in general they're really pushing into irrelevancy. How they treated Kevin Conroy's portrayal was uncalled for.

He was playing the character from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, quoting some of the exact lines from that comic, including "Clark always said yes to anything with a badge or a flag," and "Life only makes sense if you force it to."

I don't particularly like that version of Batman either, but don't blame the TV creators; Frank Miller made those decisions back in the 1980s.

[I thought they did a great fake-out with it. He was wearing the exo-skeleton from Kingdom Come, which we saw in the pre-release publicity. But he clearly isn't that Batman; he's Frank Miller's.]

[Sapphire Guard]

Not really.

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Miller's Bat never tried to kill Supes, just beat him.

[Pex]

He was playing the character from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, quoting some of the exact lines from that comic, including "Clark always said yes to anything with a badge or a flag," and "Life only makes sense if you force it to."

I don't particularly like that version of Batman either, but don't blame the TV creators; Frank Miller made those decisions back in the 1980s.

[I thought they did a great fake-out with it. He was wearing the exo-skeleton from Kingdom Come, which we saw in the pre-release publicity. But he clearly isn't that Batman; he's Frank Miller's.]

It's their fault because they chose to use that one.

[random11]

In the CW world, crossovers are much better compared to most regular episodes.
The main reason for this is that almost every series so far started with it's own tone and hero style, and later got downgraded to the regular depressed and never allowed to be happy arrow style.
The only time they remember to return to the old form is when they have a bunch of them together, and there is a need for some contrast.

That being said, while it is BETTER than the regular episodes, in my opinion it's still not good.

The main reason is the comic they decided to adapt.
To be fair, I'm only talking from general knowledge, I haven't read the comic neither am I a "*real* fan" of the comics to begin with.
Still, the reason the comic was written (other than to make money, and crossovers sell) was to unify the multiverse so there won't be a confusion regarding which is the REAL version of each character.
But in the CW world, while the multiverse technically exists and sometimes used for plot points, was there ever a debate about who is the REAL version of the Flash? Was there ever a confusion between the Lex Luthor of Supergirl and the one in Smallville? Of course not!
So the crossover needs to create a problem (establish many characters from parallel universes) and then solving it.
As a result, most of the time is wasted on references to other (and usually better) shows and movies. Hey, remember that actor? Remember that character from this old movie? Remember that character from a totally unrelated show?
It was almost funny how little time Black Lightning got compared to Superman versions that didn't matter until 10 minutes ago.
It's fine as a bonus once in awhile for fun, but not as a core idea of a 5 episodes story.

As for the rest, it's the usual CW problems, but since they are mentioned often enough, I'd better shed some light on the good stuff as well.
The part when the monitor tried to make an inspiring speech while the baby crying kept interrupting him was funny, as well as the part when Mick reads a... bed time story to the baby.
In fact, every part with the legends is still good, it's like they are the only part of the group of actors and writers left with a soul.
My hope is that since the Legends are ending the event, it will end in a completely ridicules way like using the book of destiny to turn the anti-monitor to a donkey and then letting the baby create the new universe using a new set of crayola on the book.
Not going to happen, but a man can dream...