What's your favorite headcanon? 2: Page 51 is clearly a metaphor for death

[Keltest]

Did you expect him to throw it away? If I have something for a friend's son, whose guardians don't want me to contact him, I'm probably never going to give it to him because there's not going to be any opportunity. So I'll say I may have been wrong, maybe he did have a will written up to leave it to Luke. But at some point going out of his way to find Luke and push it on him? There's no indication whatsoever. If the followup movies hadn't existed, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because it most likely would have never occurred to you. It's like the theory of Gandalf watching Frodo and biding his time, waiting to pull Frodo into the fold, for Frodo's entire life. If the new Amazon series up and made that canon, then there would still be no indication of it in the source material about it, and nobody has ever (to my knowledge) offered this suggestion before, because it's honestly kinda weird and creepy and makes no sense without supporting information. With nothing but knowledge of the first movie, if Kenobi was the person you were describing, he would be really creepy, and the kind of person you wouldn't want to meet a teenager alone at his house.

I mean, yes? Wasn't that the intent? Owen certainly didn't want Luke meeting with Ben at all, he's pretty clear about that. He's supposed to be a creepy mystic type. I think Owen even calls him a wizard at one point.

Anyway, youre arguing against your own points. You were claiming earlier that Luke is on the verge of independence, and that its therefore a good time to be springing these things on him, since Owen cant just unilaterally shut him down. And like I said before, its described as his religion. Is it really that unlikely that he wouldn't at least take it seriously enough to make some effort to proactively pass on the legacy?

[Peelee]

I mean, yes? Wasn't that the intent? Owen certainly didn't want Luke meeting with Ben at all, he's pretty clear about that. He's supposed to be a creepy mystic type.

.....no? Not at all? He's the wise mystic, he was Luke's father's friend, he was a guardian of peace and justice, he has magical powers he only uses to protect himself and Luke, he shows patience and kindness, he teaches Luke how to use the Force which shows he is telling the truth about that and that "wizard" is actually a pretty good description, he is in short none of the things you're claiming there and I can't imagine anybody in 1977 coming away with that impression.

Anyway, youre arguing against your own points. You were claiming earlier that Luke is on the verge of independence

Yes, to go and join the Academy and get off that rock. The only reason he's not going to the Academy now is because Owen needs him. So Luke is either under his uncle's thumb or off the planet. Do you think Obi-wan was going to go chase after Luke off-planet?

[Keltest]

.....no? Not at all? He's the wise mystic, he was Luke's father's friend, he was a guardian of peace and justice, he has magical powers he only uses to protect himself and Luke, he shows patience and kindness, he teaches Luke how to use the Force which shows he is telling the truth about that and that "wizard" is actually a pretty good description, he is in short none of the things you're claiming there and I can't imagine anybody in 1977 coming away with that impression.

Yes, to go and join the Academy and get off that rock. The only reason he's not going to the Academy now is because Owen needs him. So Luke is either under his uncle's thumb or off the planet. Do you think Obi-wan was going to go chase after Luke off-planet?

I think Obi-wan would drive up to Luke's house a day or two before he leaves and say "hey, I have some things your father left for you before you go."

Its not like its a spontaneous thing, and he at least has enough contact with the Lars household for Luke to know who he is and where he lives.

Also, as far as being creepy, it becomes significantly less so once there is the reveal that he was already a family friend that just didn't get along with Luke's uncle. Again, you were portraying this as entirely normal human interaction a while ago.

[Peelee]

I think Obi-wan would drive up to Luke's house a day or two before he leaves and say "hey, I have some things your father left for you before you go."

Which he could only do if he was actively watching Luke on a daily basis, which again is not indicated. You keep trying to say I'm getting lost in my own argument or arguing against my own points, but those keep not being the case. Your argument, however, is circular. You claim Kenobi was always watching Luke, and this is shown by his desire to give the saber to Luke, which he would obviously could only do because he was always watching Luke. It loops onto itself, A relies on B which relies on A.

Also, as far as being creepy, it becomes significantly less so once there is the reveal that he was already a family friend that just didn't get along with Luke's uncle. Again, you were portraying this as entirely normal human interaction a while ago.

Luke knows who Ben Kenobi is. Kenobi knows who Luke is. They talk for twenty seconds. In their next conversation, it's revealed that Kenobi knew Luke's father. When was this creepiness supposed to occur? Was it because Kenobi knew Luke existed?

[Keltest]

Which he could only do if he was actively watching Luke on a daily basis, which again is not indicated. You keep trying to say I'm getting lost in my own argument or arguing against my own points, but those keep not being the case. Your argument, however, is circular. You claim Kenobi was always watching Luke, and this is shown by his desire to give the saber to Luke, which he would obviously could only do because he was always watching Luke. It loops onto itself, A relies on B which relies on A.

Its not circular? Your B is just A said backwards. We know he was holding onto the saber to give to Luke because he says as much. Unless you want to suggest that he had completely forgotten about it until Luke showed up at his house, we can then figure that he intended to do so proactively at some point when it wouldn't cause so many issues. The alternative is that he doesn't actually care at all about the wishes of a man he claimed to be good friends with, and there isn't any evidence in the movie to support that.

Luke knows who Ben Kenobi is. Kenobi knows who Luke is. They talk for twenty seconds. In their next conversation, it's revealed that Kenobi knew Luke's father. When was this creepiness supposed to occur? Was it because Kenobi knew Luke existed?

It was because he was a mysterious old hermit that Owen didn't like, who shows up wearing a hood making some sort of wailing sound that scared the sandpeople. And then he turns out to be perfectly friendly and has a legitimate past, and the problem is with Owen, not Ben.

[Peelee]

Its not circular? Your B is just A said backwards.

You said it's obvious from the movie that he watches Luke (it's not). You've based this on the idea that he will, at some point, actively find Luke to give him the saber.
You said it's obvious from the movie that he would actively hunt down Luke to give him the saber (it's not). You've based this on the idea that he watches Luke.

That's a circular argument. You may have gotten there by saying "he passively wants Luke to have the saber because that's what Luke's father wanted" (which is true), but once you entered the active parts, you've gotten yourself into a circular argument.

We know he was holding onto the saber to give to Luke because he says as much. Unless you want to suggest that he had completely forgotten about it until Luke showed up at his house

Not "forgotten," but "not worried." He didn't worry about it until Luke showed up at his house. Because we're going to back to the old well of "that's how normal human interaction works." His father wanted Luke to have it, his uncle wouldn't allow it, so Kenobi isn't going to be sitting around trying to determine when the optimal time to find Luke in that sweet spot between when he leaves the farm and goes to the Academy (which he only knows about because of the intensive stalking he does of Luke) is. That's crazy. It's what a crazy person does. Now, yes, you've claimed Kenobi was supposed to be seen as crazy, but again, circular, because he's only going to be seen as crazy if you already assume he's doing the actions of a crazy person, and assuming that with zero evidence.

It was because he was a mysterious old hermit that Owen didn't like, who shows up wearing a hood making some sort of wailing sound that scared the sandpeople. And then he turns out to be perfectly friendly and has a legitimate past, and the problem is with Owen, not Ben.

Yes. Hints that Owen is kind of a jerk come up before we meet Ben, such as when Luke wants to go the Academy and Owen forbids it, despite Luke's objections and Beru's admonishments! He's a gruff, grizzled old farmer, which we see in his interactions with the Jawas. Luke is afraid his uncle is going to kill him for R2 running away. He instantly has a visceral reaction to Kenobi despite Luke talking very calmly. Leia, a clear hero, is seen begging for his help. Everything before we ever meet Kenobi shows that Kenobi is someone we want Luke to meet, and shows Owen to be (relatively) unpleasant, for a guardian figure. He's no Disney villain, but he's played as a pretty realistic somewhat harsh parent. You're not supposed to think, "this Owen guy is a bastion of reason and fact!"

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think it's less Kenobi wants or needs Luke and more he prefers to work with the son of his old war buddy who got scragged back in the day. This is a remake of a Kurosawa film, remember, so think in terms of a samurai film. Kenobi is the old retired warrior, Owen is the farmer who lost his brother to the wars and is afraid Kenobi will drag Luke off to the wars (and probably get him killed as well).

Thus, Obi-Wan and Owen are fighting over Anakin's legacy, in a way. Famous warrior, or lost brother?

Pieces of Eight being an informal way of dividing up coins as currency in the age of piracy.

For those who don't know, Pieces of Eight (technically a Thaler) get their name from being an eight-sided coin. Which meant that when you needed a smaller amount it was fairly easy to take a chisel and split it in half, quarters or (eventually) eighths, just by cutting from corner to corner. Note we still refer to a quarter-dollar as two-bits.

[Keltest]

Maybe its just because im from farmer stock myself, but ive always seen Owen as the rational guy who rightly sees things like flying a starfighter at a super death weapon as terrifying things to be avoided rather than chased after, myself. One who genuinely cares for Luke's safety and sees in him the same things that got his father killed.

And im not basing anything off the idea that he watches Luke. I think Ben would proactively try to give Luke the saber because that's just what people do when they have something for somebody else. If I end up with a gift for somebody, im going to try and find a way to get it to them beyond hoping they eventually stumble into my house when im around.

As for knowing Luke is going to the academy, he evidently has at least enough contact with the Lars family for Luke to know who he is and where he lives, even though its far enough away that R2 couldn't get there on foot even having left overnight. Between that and the fact that he was friends with Luke's father, is it really that implausible that he would simply ask Owen how Luke is doing every now and again? Owen doesn't like Ben, but its not like he actively hates him personally or anything, he just thinks he's dangerous for Luke to be around.

[Peelee]

I think it's less Kenobi wants or needs Luke and more he prefers to work with the son of his old war buddy who got scragged back in the day. This is a remake of a Kurosawa film, remember, so think in terms of a samurai film. Kenobi is the old retired warrior, Owen is the farmer who lost his brother to the wars and is afraid Kenobi will drag Luke off to the wars (and probably get him killed as well).

Thus, Obi-Wan and Owen are fighting over Anakin's legacy, in a way. Famous warrior, or lost brother?

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I think Ben would proactively try to give Luke the saber because that's just what people do when they have something for somebody else. If I end up with a gift for somebody, im going to try and find a way to get it to them beyond hoping they eventually stumble into my house when im around.

Kenobi did try. Owen said no. Kenobi shows no signs of having tried to continue fighting against Owen on that, and shows no signs of having kept trying. He does give it when it's literally the most convenient circumstances possible.

As for knowing Luke is going to the academy, he evidently has at least enough contact with the Lars family for Luke to know who he is and where he lives, even though its far enough away that R2 couldn't get there on foot even having left overnight.

Yeah,in 1977 that technology was called a phone book. It's not supremely weird or anything that Kenobi, knowing who Luke and his relative are, could find out a way to contact them in a world with spaceships when that technology exists in a world where digital watches are fancy new technology.

Also, Luke knew "the Jundland Wastes." I know Jimmy Hoffa lived in Michigan, but I'm pretty sure you're not going to suggest familiarity there. And with Owen's reaction to simply hearing Kenobi's name, no, I'm pretty sure dude doesn't just stop by every so often. Person non grata.

[Bohandas]

And yet he was able to recognize him and C-3PO constantly throughout TCW, even in places where he would have no reason to recognize the droids apart from any other standard model. Given that, we absolutely should expect Kenobi to recognize them, especially when they show up as a pair, with the son of the longtime owner of R2 and the original builder of 3PO, in the middle of a desert where no astromech and protocol droid have any business being, specifically looking for Kenobi.

"They were standard models" doesn't cut it.

Furthermore, C-3P0 technically isn't standard, IIRC one of his limbs is a different color from the others because that's what Anakin happened to have available.

[Cazero]

Furthermore, C-3P0 technically isn't standard, IIRC one of his limbs is a different color from the others because that's what Anakin happened to have available.

That's a "war wound" from the sequel trilogy. He's full golden in episodes 3 through 6 (and maybe also 2 but I don't remember if he had his covering yet).

[Fyraltari]

That's a "war wound" from the sequel trilogy. He's full golden in episodes 3 through 6 (and maybe also 2 but I don't remember if he had his covering yet).

No he is not.

[Cazero]

Amusing trick of the light. But his full leg is visible (and somewhat blurred) behind the silver-y effect, so we know the picture is not a reliable indicator of color.

[LibraryOgre]

Might we move the discussion of the truth of Obi-wan Kenobi to its own thread?

[Fyraltari]

Amusing trick of the light. But his full leg is visible (and somewhat blurred) behind the silver-y effect, so we know the picture is not a reliable indicator of color.

I legitimately cannot tell whether this is a joke.

[Keltest]

Might we move the discussion of the truth of Obi-wan Kenobi to its own thread?

I gave up on that yesterday when it occurred to me that I couldn't remember the original point being argued.

[Hopeless]

I think Leia set up the search for the map to Luke as a ruse to discover how badly Snoke had infiltrated the New Republic.

That hyperspace tracker they spouted about is because the New Republic installed imperial tech based on that missile the Grand Inquisitor used with that missile that struck the Phantom in Star Wars Rebels.
The New Republic installed them into any ship they had access to after being goaded into it by pawns of Snoke to prevent a Rebel Alliance being formed against them.

That's why I prefer Holdo to be a New Republic Admiral and not a member of the Resistance thus explaining her distrust and ridiculous habit of keeping her plans secret from those she's supposed to be commanding.

Paige & Rose's ships are actually civilian mining craft and not military craft explaining why they're so fragile and frankly rubbish in actually serious combat.

So Holdo picked them up to locate Leia and she was the one who messed up sending them into combat when it was clear they shouldn't have been there rather than Poe.

Holdo was sent to locate and bring Leia back to Hosnian Prime so they can officially disperse her Resistance group thus had they not acted too soon the use of Starkiller Base would have wiped out all opposition instead of just those Senators who wasn't loyal to Snoke.

As per Cobalt Squadron Holdo located Rose's group and took them into custody pressing them into leading them to Leia under the guise of seeking her help.

I wouldn't have brought Palpatine back instead reveal the Inquisitors usurped power forming a Dark Council of their own becoming the big bad of any future movies or tv series set in this era thus avoiding all those problems being suggested as part of the reason the ST is so problematic.

Still wouldn't have killed off Luke as I actually want there to be an actual Jedi Order and not the mess they left it in!

[Imbalance]

Santa Claus doesn't fly around Earth, but through it. Evidence is found in all the little holes that keep popping up in Siberia and the recently discovered ones off the California coast. Belize has a pretty big one. If you turn on satellite view on Maps, there's also a ton if them up in Canada that nobody talks about, because geologists figured out what was going on decades ago and chose to keep his secret. I'm willing to bet that more of these mysterious pits will be discovered in the coming years, bringing us closer than ever to finally apprehending the elusive elf.

[No brains]

Santa Claus is actually a form of radiation. He can travel absurdly fast, can go straight through barriers, and may even be inside people. Prolonged exposure may be dangerous, especially in the form of Christmas music spam.

[Bohandas]

No, he just reduplicates himself like Doctor Manhattan. In fact, Santa Claus has all of the powers of Doctor Manhattan.

[Rodin]

Reminds me of this analysis of Santa Claus that has been kicking around the Internet for ages.

Spoiler: Santa Claus: An Engineer's Perspective

Show

There are approximately two billion children (persons under 10) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
Jewish or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan) religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at least one good child in each. Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the
different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household
with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on to the next house.

Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the purposes of our calculations), we are now talking about
0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops or breaks. This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second--3,000 times the speed of sound.
For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour. The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500 thousand tons, not counting Santa himself. On land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the normal amount, the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them - Santa would need 360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch). 600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each. In short, they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip.

Not that it matters, however, since Santa - as a result of accelerating from a dead stop to 650 m. p. s. in . 001 seconds - would be subjected to acceleration forces of 17,500 g's. A 250 pound Santa which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering puddle of pink goo.

Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now.

Merry Christmas!

[Kantaki]

Merry Christmas!

So what I'm getting from this is that Santa is in all of us.
Specifically in our lungs.
Because we breathed him in.

[Imbalance]

So what I'm getting from this is that Santa is in all of us.
Specifically in our lungs.
Because we breathed him in.

I can see his presence reflected in my bank statement.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Odd, he's on my credit card balance as well.

((Also, you have the right handle for this discussion.))

[Bohandas]

This next one isn't even really a headcanon, its a proper canon that everyone seems to have missed. The entities of the cthulhu mythos have no particular general power to cause madness. The characters in the classic cthulhu mythos end up in madhouses for one of three relatively mundane reasons

1.) Bizzare story (or possession) misdiagnosed as madness. (ex. "The Thing on the Doorstep" "The Shadow Out of Time" "The Wall of Sleep")

2.) Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

3.) Physical brain damage (ex. "Re-Animator" "The Color out of Space" "The Repairer of Reputations")

[Fyraltari]

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

Also ‘the rats in the walls’ end with the narrator attacking husband best friend while chanting Shyb-Niggurath’s name even though he’s never heard of her.

[Gnoman]

At the Mountains Of Madness heavily implies that seeing a Shoggoth drove one of the two survivors of the expedition mad, and even the other one (the narrator) is still haunted by the experience of hearing one.

[Bohandas]

At the Mountains Of Madness heavily implies that seeing a Shoggoth drove one of the two survivors of the expedition mad, and even the other one (the narrator) is still haunted by the experience of hearing one.

Didn't they also see the flayed bodies of the other members of the expedition and get lost in the ancient city? It seems likely that they just have mundane PTSD.

[Friv]

At the Mountains Of Madness heavily implies that seeing a Shoggoth drove one of the two survivors of the expedition mad, and even the other one (the narrator) is still haunted by the experience of hearing one.

My recollection is that it wasn't seeing a normal shoggoth that drove him mad, it was seeing a mountainous monstrous thing at the heart of the mountain, a thing which may have been the ultimate evolution of the shoggoths or may have been some terrible force that controlled them. The team sees what they believe to be a shoggoth at the tail end of a terrible journey, and while that is a terrifying cry, it's definitely more of the general PTSD variety than a cosmic shattering of the mind.

[Bohandas]

1.) Blasters in Star Wars are extremely difficult to aim

2.) In the remastered version of Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope, the scene with Greedo shooting first was added not to soften Han Solo's characterization but rather as an attempt to establish blasters as difficult to aim (Greedo misses from point-blank range) and thereby help justify Obi-Wan's assertion that imperial stormtroopers are expert marksmen (while the shots they make onscreen typically don't connect, they nevertheless come closer to hitting their mark than Greedo did, and we must remember that Greedo is a hardened gangster and presumably no stranger to weapons)