How is belkar so good at fighting?

[Emanick]

What are you basing any of this on? Non-assassins can use poison and nothing he does indicates he's level 5. Or level 10. Or level 2. We've got no idea what level he is. What his HP is. Nothing.

We know he’s at least 5th level because Hinjo said so. On the other hand, he does say that assassinating people for pay isn’t his usual line of work, so he’s probably not an assassin. As a guy in prison for “grand larceny,” he’s probably just a mid-level rogue.

OotS doesn't follow Dungeons and Dragons rules as closely as you're thinking it does. It flows on a narrative and that's all that matters. Belkar is as good as he is at fighting because that's what the story demands. That's all there is to it.

Yeah, but that’s a boring answer. We know it’s a story; it’s much more interesting to figure out why, in-universe, Belkar is actually that good.

[Lombard]

I just figured some of the panels are more of a summary of the combat than trying to show everything blow-by-blow, round-by-round

[NontheistCleric]

Yeah, but that’s a boring answer. We know it’s a story; it’s much more interesting to figure out why, in-universe, Belkar is actually that good.

Yet, maybe there is no 'in-universe' answer, at least not one that can be meticulously determined with an analysis of the D&D 3.5 rules. We already know that OotS doesn't really care about the rules, except when jokes can be made about them, so the 'in-universe' answer is simply 'because Belkar is an experienced warrior'.

[Emanick]

Yet, maybe there is no 'in-universe' answer, at least not one that can be meticulously determined with an analysis of the D&D 3.5 rules. We already know that OotS doesn't really care about the rules, except when jokes can be made about them, so the 'in-universe' answer is simply 'because Belkar is an experienced warrior'.

Again, that’s boring. It’s fun to speculate about the details, even if we can’t prove definitively what’s going on. Trying is the fun part.

[Tvtyrant]

Again, that’s boring. It’s fun to speculate about the details, even if we can’t prove definitively what’s going on. Trying is the fun part.

Crit fishing. He has a feat unique to halflings that his crit range against favored enemies is extended by the favorite enemy bonus. His current bonus against humanoids is +6, so he crits on a 12 or higher.

[Anymage]

I would not be surprised if the DM let Belkar bend the rules a little in exchange for his horribly unoptimized build (for instance, no spellcasting) and let the misanthropic little bugger take Favored Enemy: Everything. We don't see him being especially good at killing certain races over others, and always being able to pull FE bonuses can help cover some of the gap.

Doesn't explain things like the massive morale bonuses he got that let him handle a pair of rogues who just took down Haley, but I'm okay letting him count many attacks with bonuses instead of trying to count it all as per-hit damage.

[Jay R]

Belkar's elite fighting prowess is limited only by the Roger Rabbit Rule:

"Not any time. Only when it was funny."

[dude123nice]

I would not be surprised if the DM let Belkar bend the rules a little in exchange for his horribly unoptimized build (for instance, no spellcasting) and let the misanthropic little bugger take Favored Enemy: Everything. We don't see him being especially good at killing certain races over others, and always being able to pull FE bonuses can help cover some of the gap.

Doesn't explain things like the massive morale bonuses he got that let him handle a pair of rogues who just took down Haley, but I'm okay letting him count many attacks with bonuses instead of trying to count it all as per-hit damage.

Except that we DO see him killing three things over any others: humans, goblins and undead. And I think that it's pretty much agreed that h e has taken Fav enemy mainly against these three. Combine that with the occasional instance of pages showing summary instead of blow for blow, and it becomes less unlikely that he could pull of what hew does against enemies lower level than him.

ALso, during the Crystal and Bozzok fight, pretty sure that the Giant himself has stated that Belkar was both using a shield and the total defense action to evade all their attacks.

[NontheistCleric]

Again, that’s boring. It’s fun to speculate about the details, even if we can’t prove definitively what’s going on. Trying is the fun part.

But since there are no real rules, what you propose is nothing more than arbitrary homebrew speculation. Is making up some random large numbers or powerful abilities and putting them on Belkar really more fun than just admitting he is a good warrior because he is required by the story to be?

[Synesthesy]

But since there are no real rules, what you propose is nothing more than arbitrary homebrew speculation. Is making up some random large numbers or powerful abilities and putting them on Belkar really more fun than just admitting he is a good warrior because he is required by the story to be?

I don't think yours is a good argument. While it's clear that you are right from an out-of-the-ootsverse point of view (and it would still be right even if oots have followed the rule at 100%), we can say that you can't argue about things that are that way just because.

It's the same of saying that things fall down because they don't fall up. Ok it's true, but what's the point?

Belkar is good at fighting because the story needs him to be like that. Ok, but what's the point?

You can be the kind of reader that don't need to think about this things, and it's cool. But why can't other people argue about this webcomic just for the sake of it?
I don't know if there is a reason inside the rules of dnd 3.5 that can explain what we see. But I do know that trying to figure it out is funny and make the comic more enjoyable for us.

[Liquor Box]

I don't understand why people are suggesting homebrew solutions as to why Belkar can do what he does. Ordinary rules (combining favoured enemy, his barbarian rage, a probable str bonus, weapon damage and occassional crits) allow him to deal significant damage which is often sufficient to kill most of the mooks he often faces.

He's a better fight than most because rangers are a fighting class. In a stand up fight, Belkar is secondary only to Roy in the party, which reflects that ranges are secondary only to fighters in a stand up fight amongst the classes in the Order. As Belkar puts it when he takes down the thieves guild "Wow, it's almost like I'm a seasoned warrior and you to are glorified pickpockets..".

There's nothing inconsistent with the rules in terms of Belkar's fighting ability.

[MReav]

Except that we DO see him killing three things over any others: humans, goblins and undead. And I think that it's pretty much agreed that h e has taken Fav enemy mainly against these three. Combine that with the occasional instance of pages showing summary instead of blow for blow, and it becomes less unlikely that he could pull of what hew does against enemies lower level than him.

ALso, during the Crystal and Bozzok fight, pretty sure that the Giant himself has stated that Belkar was both using a shield and the total defense action to evade all their attacks.

I'm pretty sure he's got Favored Enemy: Kobold.

[CriticalFailure]

Belkar may not have taken goblinoids as a favored enemy because by the time they were stuck in Azure City/Gobbotopia he had the mark of Justice and couldn't kill them anyways. It could be humans/kobolds/undead. I think all the goblinoids we've seen him fighting have generally been low level minions.

[Razade]

We know he’s at least 5th level because Hinjo said so. On the other hand, he does say that assassinating people for pay isn’t his usual line of work, so he’s probably not an assassin. As a guy in prison for “grand larceny,” he’s probably just a mid-level rogue.

If you want to go by strict D&D 3.5 rules you can't get into Assassin before level 6 as far as I recall. I could crack open the book but I'm fairly certain that most PrC's in the DMG were designed for levels 6 and up. Sure he could have optimized but...I think we can agree that the random NPC archer is not, in fact, optimized.

Yeah, but that’s a boring answer. We know it’s a story; it’s much more interesting to figure out why, in-universe, Belkar is actually that good.

Yet it's the answer all the same. Boring, not boring, it doesn't matter. The answer to your question is that it's a story and the story says he's good at what he does independent of stats and class levels. You're not figuring anything out either. You're making stuff up that won't ever be true.

[Emanick]

If you want to go by strict D&D 3.5 rules you can't get into Assassin before level 6 as far as I recall. I could crack open the book but I'm fairly certain that most PrC's in the DMG were designed for levels 6 and up. Sure he could have optimized but...I think we can agree that the random NPC archer is not, in fact, optimized.

As far as I recall, your recollections are correct. He can't be 5th level and be an assassin. That said, in theory he could still be an assassin, because the soldier here only tells Hinjo that he's over 5th level. Which could also be interpreted as him being at least level 6, I guess.

Either way, though, I'm pretty sure you're right about him not being an assassin, because he says here that assassinating Hinjo is "not my usual area of expertise." That's a really weird thing to say for someone who literally has assassin class levels.

Yet it's the answer all the same. Boring, not boring, it doesn't matter. The answer to your question is that it's a story and the story says he's good at what he does independent of stats and class levels. You're not figuring anything out either. You're making stuff up that won't ever be true.

Correction: that's the out-of-universe answer. The in-universe answer isn't that "it's a story" - by definition it can't be - and that's what we're talking about.

"Making stuff up that won't ever be true" describes 95% of all speculation on this forum. Best of luck getting people to stop doing it, although I'm still not sure why you care.

[AchtungNight]

I'm pretty sure he's got Favored Enemy: Kobold.

And even if he doesn't, I know of several Kobolds who have Favored Enemy: Belkar.

[Quartz]

I know of several Kobolds who have Favored Enemy: Belkar.

Had, not have. :)

[mjasghar]

Correction: that's the out-of-universe answer. The in-universe answer isn't that "it's a story" - by definition it can't be - and that's what we're talking about.

Sorry but you’ve made an error there
This is a story can be an in-universe answer
This is self-aware fantasy parody world
There’s literally a prestige class that relies on being dramatic
You can learn about classes and general info by reading gaming manuals
In one major fight it was resolved by talking about dice rolls

[tanonev]

...That's not going to 1-shot the guy (even if he's no more than 5th level and has an 8 con, it would take 25 damage to get him to -10). But it could have been a crit.

There's a common house rule that unimportant creatures die at 0HP rather than -10HP. There's in-comic evidence that OOTS follows this house rule: in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html 2 damage is the difference between conscious and dead. One could argue that the distinction between unimportant and important creatures in OOTS is literally whether they're named: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html

[brian 333]

Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack make a lightly armored character virtually immune to Attacks of Opportunity, which is what makes it so difficult for fighters to handle large numbers of mooks simultaneously. We know Belkar has the Spring Attack feat due to his commentary when he got the Ring of Jumping, and the other two feats are prerequisites for SA.

A lightly armored fighter that can maneuver at will in a pack of low CR opponents can wreak havoc on them. I know this because I played a halfling ranger for many years under 3.0 rules on a Neverwinter Nights server known as Myseria 2. Favored Enemies: Undead, Goblinoids, Orcs, and Giants.

Merogo Oakenroot, (who was very much like Belkar, except CG instead of CE,) could slaughter endless numbers of low CR enemies and hold his own against medium CR enemies, but against enemies of his own level he was toast.

So I find nothing out of the ordinary about Belkar's performance because Merogo did it. In fact, the player who introduced me to OotS commented on the similarities way back when.

[Seward]

While D&D 3.5 is assumed to be all about spellcasters in the Meta at higher levels, in my actual experience there was nothing more effective to do with your action than put a high level warrior next to an enemy for his full attack at level 15.

Even if said warrior is only a middling "build".

A TWF ranger doesn't need as high a dexterity stat as a TWF fighter because of how bonus feats work. While Belkar's Dex is probably pretty high, his stat bumps and item support likely went into strength, so even at baseline he is likely better than a lot of TWF builds (and monk builds for that matter) which mistakenly think Strength isn't the primary stat for any melee build that doesn't somehow get damage from another stat (as with Elan and the fictional Dashing Swordsman Prestige Class).

What you need with a TWF build is "damage per hit" feats, class abilities and support from other party members, plus getting somehow into full attack range of an enemy. Several higher level builds from late 3.5 sourcebooks had options to full attack after a move that could be achieved by level 15, but we don't really see evidence of that with Belkar. What he does have is large favored enemy bonuses against humans, undead, possibly Kobolds and probably goblins (note that Redcloak is a goblin and will be an important target someday, as is Team Evil's latest animal companion wrangler).

In addition he often has bardsong buffs from Elan which play into his "many attacks" fighting style, and if he needs a bit more, he DOES have at least one barbarian level and can rage for extra to-hit and damage. Being a pure fighter class with high strength and often ranger or other bonuses he is going to hit with his first two attacks and probably also his next two iterative attacks, while sometimes even hitting with his lower tier attacks.

All that said, where we've seen him really shine is usually vs large numbers of weak opponents who come to him or are within reach (thieves guild, warriors in the Azure City battle etc) or enemies where he has used stealth to get into full attack range and then gotten to unload on them (eg, sneaking off to kill a Goblin priest during the final fight of the first book). Most of the time he's a middling level contributor to the party.

The biggest case of him really being badass was vs Crystal and Bozzak, when they had him flanked. As a primary fighter he has probably invested heavily in armor class, and borrowing a magical shield put that AC into the "hit me on a 20" level with two rogue-types, even if one exceeded his level. Typically any rogue fight vs a primary melee type goes poorly for the rogues if they are not attacking from stealth, I found that pretty believable. Being size small and high dex can make for a good basis that you can build from with items and feats etc to get a solid AC. (indeed my most successful Pathfinder Tank was a halfling that looked and behaved like a lightly armored barbarian but could achieve armor class in high 30s fairly routinely by about level 10).

Where he struggles is in situations where his size matters (eg grapple checks), or when multiple attacks instead of one or two really big attacks work against him (as in DR he can't penetrate - for example Vampire DR, which requires Silver+Magic). He will be useless vs Xycon, but could be really dangerous to Redcloak if he gets into full attack range, especially if Redcloak has had some magical defenses wear off (like at end of a dungeon crawl in their current Gate dungeon) or via dispel magic.

[Seward]

A lightly armored fighter that can maneuver at will in a pack of low CR opponents can wreak havoc on them. I know this because I played a halfling ranger for many years under 3.0 rules on a Neverwinter Nights server known as Myseria 2. Favored Enemies: Undead, Goblinoids, Orcs, and Giants.

Yeah. I played Belkar straight from level 1 to epic in the Neverwinter Nights 2 campaign CRPGs and he was incredibly effective as a primary character with minimal and sometimes no companions. CRPGs often have lots and lots of fights with weak opponents and it is actually faster for a warrior-type to solo them than to engage with a full, balanced party. This is especially true if you come up with a regeneration item to eliminate healing downtime, and take advantage of faster level gain and piling all the best items on one character that you can do with a smaller party.

He worked pretty well in a Balder Gate campaign too as the Baalspawn, both as party leader and for personality vs backstory. "What, you were fine with me killing thousands of people when it suited your purposes but I kill one noble's daughter and NOW you are upset?" He eventually got the Bear NPC as a companion, plus some of the less savory companions as sidekicks when needed. Although he did get to the point in the first game where he had to clean up his act a bit as the bounty hunter encounters were getting pretty fierce.

[NontheistCleric]

I don't think yours is a good argument. While it's clear that you are right from an out-of-the-ootsverse point of view (and it would still be right even if oots have followed the rule at 100%), we can say that you can't argue about things that are that way just because.

It's the same of saying that things fall down because they don't fall up. Ok it's true, but what's the point?

Belkar is good at fighting because the story needs him to be like that. Ok, but what's the point?

You can be the kind of reader that don't need to think about this things, and it's cool. But why can't other people argue about this webcomic just for the sake of it?
I don't know if there is a reason inside the rules of dnd 3.5 that can explain what we see. But I do know that trying to figure it out is funny and make the comic more enjoyable for us.

No, it's not the same as saying things fall down because they don't fall up, nor I am saying that Belkar is good at fighting because the story needs him to be like that.

I'm simply pointing out that OotS, much of the time, simply does not care what the actual D&D 3.5 rules are. Belkar, the character, is a good warrior, and the reasons for that are because he is physically powerful and agile and has a lot of experience with his daggers.

We already know by looking at the rules that a halfling barbarian/ranger dual-wielding daggers at the apparent optimization level of the Order would be not be an optimal build in D&D 3.5, but that doesn't matter, because that's not what Belkar is and his capabilities are not defined by that. There may be some numbers that can justify what he does, but it's unlikely that they can be accurately and consistently met through building a character that resembles him in D&D 3.5, and the Giant clearly does not care about this when he gives Belkar those numbers anyway.

Sometimes, he may be mentioned to run on a rule that sounds similar to a rule this hypothetical D&D 3.5 halfling would also run on, but the rule-sets are at best similar, as evidenced by how numerous people have found it necessary to invent homebrew and change the rules in order to provide a satisfactory answer to the OP's question.

[MultitudeMan]

I feel like there's some conflation of "possible" and "likely" going on in this analysis. Rich Burlew is certainly not giving us a campaign report of an actual D&D game, but one of the reasons I love the Class and Level Geekery thread so much is that it is able to come up with explanations that are technically within the 3.5 ruleset for just about everything that has happened so far. It's just that the Giant is not rolling dice, he's choosing what result each dice roll would have, or effectively so, as the story requires. Rich is so experienced with D&D that he doesn't need to figure out if it's possible within D&D canon, he can just eyeball it, and be right pretty much all the time anyway. If he needs Redcloak to make all his saves in the ultimate duel between clerics, then that is what happens. If he needs Hilgya to fail a REALLY important Will save, then that is what happens. If he needs Belkar to confirm a crit against the rogue he's just pushed over the Azure City walls, because beheading him mid-air is awesome (and if beheading an undamaged character isn't a crit, then I don't know what is!), then that's what happens.

As far as the numbers go, 1-3 damage from small dagger, 2-3 from Belkar's known STR bonus, 4 from his +4 magical dagger, 2-6 from Favored Enemy (we don't know for sure that he took the increase for "human" at levels 5 and 10 of Ranger), all doubled when critting, for a damage range on a confirmed crit of 18-32, and that's not including raging. That's plenty to take down a level 6 rogue who conveniently enough rolled badly on his HP, while unwisely dumping CON .

Belkar was level 12 or 13 at this point; I don't understand what's so surprising about him one-shotting a rogue maybe 6 or 7 levels below him. He's a sexy shoeless god of war!!!

[Psyren]

While it's true that the comic plays fast and loose with the rules sometimes, Belkar is a whole other level of that. The best explanation I can think of is that he has some kind of option (feat, archetype, ACF, flaw etc) that allows him to treat just about anyone as a favored enemy in exchange for being a bit (well okay, more than a bit) of a sociopath. That much damage from a small TWF creature with a strength penalty from his race is a tad difficult for me to reconcile otherwise.

[Peelee]

While it's true that the comic plays fast and loose with the rules sometimes, Belkar is a whole other level of that. The best explanation I can think of is that he has some kind of option (feat, archetype, ACF, flaw etc) that allows him to treat just about anyone as a favored enemy in exchange for being a bit (well okay, more than a bit) of a sociopath. That much damage from a small TWF creature with a strength penalty from his race is a tad difficult for me to reconcile otherwise.

Maybe he just consistently rolls high?

ETA: At least on damage, if nothing else. Dunno if that would make up for it.

[Doug Lampert]

Maybe he just consistently rolls high?

ETA: At least on damage, if nothing else. Dunno if that would make up for it.

Damage die rolls don't matter much. I'll repeat myself: Thog power attack for 1d12+567 damage.

Main weapon: +5 collision dagger, that's +10 damage to every hit with that weapon. Strength +2 damage. Favored enemy +2 or more damage. Bardsong +3 damage. Rage +2 damage.
1d4+19 damage per hit, and he does three or so attacks with that weapon per round.

Note that Elan doesn't need to be singing when Belkar attacks, he just needs to have been singing in the recent past; and I'm assuming no damage buffs but the obvious and known to be available ones. There are a LOT of ways to buff damage in 3.5, especially with all the splats.

Secondary weapons are probably only 1d3+12 damage per hit; three or so more attacks per round.

Those dice make almost no difference, and I'm not seeing just what he's killing that 20+ damage a hit for the main weapon doesn't explain. He could roll nothing but ones for damage, and do 99 damage a round without critting, if he crits some or all of the attacks, it goes up, a lot.

[Nightcanon]

I'm going with: Word of Giant says that this is a story based in D&D, but it isn't an account of a D&D campaign.

If you must have an in-game explanation, how about:
-one of his daggers is Vorpal
-he rarely fights against opponents of similar strength (even if the rogue in Azure City was 'over fifth level', the Order were at least 7th level when they fought Trigak, which was several dozen strips before they defeated Xykon; a sixth level rogue is easy prey to a full BAB character several levels higher).
- when he does fight enemies of similar strength, he's careful to do it on his own terms: only Miko, Crystal and possibly the first Linear Guild kobold come to mind.
-as pointed out above, Belkar cheats. If this were a game of D&D, his player is the one using the weighted dice and exaggerating his hit rolls.
-Belkar is a CE character who preys on the weak. He somehow continues to benefit from murdering low-level opposition, and is several levels more advanced than the rest of the Order. He gets a Role-playing XP award every time he kills a level 1 kobold or hobgoblin, and has more class levels than the rest of the cast put together.

[woweedd]

I'm going with: Word of Giant says that this is a story based in D&D, but it isn't an account of a D&D campaign.

If you must have an in-game explanation, how about:
-one of his daggers is Vorpal
-he rarely fights against opponents of similar strength (even if the rogue in Azure City was 'over fifth level', the Order were at least 7th level when they fought Trigak, which was several dozen strips before they defeated Xykon; a sixth level rogue is easy prey to a full BAB character several levels higher).
- when he does fight enemies of similar strength, he's careful to do it on his own terms: only Miko, Crystal and possibly the first Linear Guild kobold come to mind.
-as pointed out above, Belkar cheats. If this were a game of D&D, his player is the one using the weighted dice and exaggerating his hit rolls.
-Belkar is a CE character who preys on the weak. He somehow continues to benefit from murdering low-level opposition, and is several levels more advanced than the rest of the Order. He gets a Role-playing XP award every time he kills a level 1 kobold or hobgoblin, and has more class levels than the rest of the cast put together.

We actually know for a fact Belkar was slightly behind everyone in XP, and, immediately after that, multi classes to Barbarian, which would inhibit his XP gain.

[factotum]

We actually know for a fact Belkar was slightly behind everyone in XP, and, immediately after that, multi classes to Barbarian, which would inhibit his XP gain.

Multiclassing doesn't affect XP gain? It would mean he'd be a level lower in Ranger than he otherwise would be because he'd obviously have the level in Barbarian, but the actual amount of XP he gained would be the same as for everyone else of his effective character level.