Doctor Who: Just Be Kind, Fam

[Rodin]

Unfortunately, this week's episode is bad.

Really bad.

Kill the Moon bad.

Spoiler: Episode 3 - Orphan 55

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The victims of the week are one dimensional. The whole episode was harping on appreciating your children for some reason, but they don't really go anywhere with that? Also, everybody is stupid in this episode and deserved to die. Even the ones that didn't.

The aliens are one dimensional. They make a big deal about them breathing out oxygen, but then it's used only for a "isn't the Doctor clever" moment instead of using it to say something interesting. The aliens are "monster of the week" in the most fundamental way - they only exist to be a threat to our heroes and have no apparent desires of their own.

The twist is obvious. In fact, it was so obvious that I was waiting for the second twist where they took the premise and turned it into something interesting. Alas, it never came.

And then there's the preaching. Look, I'm as big a supporter of preventing global warming as anyone. It's important. But having the Doctor stand there and lecture into the camera about it doesn't make for good TV. If I'm watching a nature documentary and David Attenborough makes a point of showing how we're badly affecting nature, fair enough. But I'm watching Doctor Who for escapism, not a lecture. There's a difference between your story having a moral lesson and beating your audience over the head with your point of view.

Tl;dr - this episode felt like it was aimed at very small children, and I think anyone other than small children will not enjoy it. If you haven't seen it yet, I would actually recommend skipping it. It's THAT bad.

[oxybe]

agreed with the terribleness of the episode. I rewatched it and it made me even more annoyed.

Spoiler

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the monster is pointless and fails to intimidate as this supposed alpha predator just shambles on screen and kills off it, the "don't be a terrible parent to your kids" message is shoehorned in and doesn't have anything to do with the main message of environmental preachyness it ends with, that seems to indicate that we could just solve it in a snap if we 7 billion kumbaya'd for a minute... this isn't a simple task. it's a complex issue.

and having some daft spacefarer tell us to just stop squabbling without offering any hint or solution is aggravating.

especially since the "villain" seems to have a roadmap to terraform the post-apoc wasteland into a livable space, yes it was for profit, sure, but they're not the reason the planet was ****'d in the first place, ancient humans were (at least in that timeline).

Again, the "bad guy" had a solution to the problem the doctor was preaching about, they just didn't have the capital to implement it. the villain could clean and recycle the air into something breathable, etc...

the bad guy aren't evil, they're just terribly irresponsible businessesfolk who died because one girl had a ****ty mum and decided the proper reaction was explosives, and the message is a vague "clean up your room humanity".

[Arkalidror]

Unfortunately, this week's episode is bad.

Really bad.

Kill the Moon bad.

I enjoyed it on the first watch, but then again I think I'll always enjoy Doctor Who on first watch. Looking back, I agree with this.

Spoiler: What Went Wrong (Plot Spoilers Ahead)

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To my mind, Orphan 55 fell into the same trap as Kill the Moon and Sleep No More; it was a filler episode (a 45 minute slice of entertainment to bridge the gap between the series' bigger titles) that tried to be more than just a filler episode. With Kill the Moon and Orphan 55, they tried to make the consequences too big, make the episode more significant than it needed to be. Sleep No More had a similar problem - it tried too hard to be something different and unique, which ended up as complete nonsense. Scary nonsense, but nonsense nonetheless. At least Orphan 55 had some semblance of an actual plot.

That's not to say that filler episodes have to average. Blink was a filler episode. Midnight was a filler episodes. But they didn't try to go beyond being a filler episode - they brilliant for what they were.

What really annoys me is that Orphan 55 started out as a perfectly decent episode. You've got the funny bit with the tentacle and the mops, then Graham walks in and next thing you know they're teleported to this beautiful holiday spa. So far so good. But you've no sooner got there before you're thrown into this pitched battle which leads you out into a desolate wasteland on a recovery mission which a) has no chance of succeeding and b) we don't actually care if it succeeds or not! Within ten minutes, the episode's inflated its premise to breaking point.

And that's not even touching on the preachy bit at the end. Frankly, they should know better.

I hesitate to call any episode bad, but I'm sad to say that in my opinion, this qualifies.

[Thufir]

@Arkalidror: There's really no such thing as a 'filler episode' on Doctor Who. There generally isn't a big ongoing main plot, one-off monster of the week is the norm.

That said, this episode.

Spoiler: Orphan 55

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I absolutely agree with the message. It's a good message. But the episode... not so much.

Honestly, my first instinct based on that episode was to check if it was the writer's first episode - because that would be an understandable explanation. The big issue with the episode was that there were too many things in it (two sets of parenting problems, the environmental message, the old couple, the Ryan/Bella flirtation, the resort itself) and so none of them got enough attention. It would've made sense to me if it was the writer's first Doctor Who episode and he just threw in too many ideas out of an abundance of enthusiasm. But it wasn't, he also wrote It Takes You Away in the previous series, which I liked. So it's just a failure on his part.
I could go into detail on the various things which didn't work about the episode, but ultimately it all comes back to the fact that they probably could have worked out better given more time, but there wasn't enough time for any of the things because of all the other things going on.

[random11]

Liked the recent episode (Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror)

Similar to Spyfall, it dropped famous names from history to draw attention to their less known achievements, sprinkles in some aliens, and creates a solid episode.
And unlike Spyfall, it actually gave the named characters something to do other than be mentioned.

If the curiosity from this episode makes even a small percentage of people to search for Nikola Tesla or Thomas Edison, I'd consider this a success.
Although I do hope that it's just a starting point and that no one considers Doctor Who a documentary...

[Arkalidror]

@Arkalidror: There's really no such thing as a 'filler episode' on Doctor Who. There generally isn't a big ongoing main plot, one-off monster of the week is the norm.

I don't mean really mean "filler episode" in the way you're meaning. I just mean any episode that isn't obviously... I don't know, big. If it's a two-partner, or there's an important historical figure, or an iconic monster is involved, then, to me, that tends to be what stands out in an upcoming series. What I'm calling a filler episode is one that isn't obviously "significant" like that. (Sorry I didn't make that clear. I pretty much grew up on the Doctor Who episode/plot style, so my definition of "filler episode" probably differs from the norm.)

Now, Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror. I really liked this episode. Brilliantly ridiculous title aside, it seemed to me to be a good, solid episode.

Spoiler: Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror

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What I like most about this episode is that it's seen more from Tesla's point of view. It gave me (who before this episode was clueless about Tesla) a real sense of his life and accomplishments, and made me want to learn more. So, as far as being a historical episode goes, mission accomplished!

As for the Skithra, I liked them. As monsters, they're... decent. Not especially original or scary, but they have an air of menace about them. I'm grateful for that. Sometimes, a decent monster is all you need. I especially liked the chase scene through through the street where they're all crashing into things. They're not the sleekest of predators!

One other thing I liked: the companions. For the first time since their introduction, their roles in the episode felt balanced properly. They each played an equal part in this episode - and they do their job of representing the audience well. Nikola Tesla doesn't seem to be the a particularly well-known historical figure, so it's nice that the companions bring that side of things to the story.

So yes. Good, solid episode (in my opinion).

[Rodin]

Spoiler: Fugitive of the Judoon

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Woah.

Just...woah.

They appear to have taken the main criticism of last season to heart. We've now got THREE ongoing mysteries for this season.

1) What happened to Gallifrey?

2) Who is the Lone Cyberman?

3) Why do the two Doctors not recognize each other? At what point in the Doctor's history is the new one? Or is there parallel universe stuff going on?

This was the best Doctor Who episode for me since the Smith era. Big mysteries, good humor, and Jack Harkness making a return. Great stuff.

[oxybe]

So after last week's palette cleanser, I sat down earlier to watch the Judoon episode, here's my first view review, spoiler and all

Spoiler

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colour me legit impressed.

I'll start with my biggest complaint and why it's less of a complaint and more of nit I feel I should pick, but I fully understand why it occurred so I'm giving it a pass: it was a very "A Plot/ B Plot" episode and could've done with having been split into two separate episodes but seeing as how they're trying for a hard course correction on the 5th episode of the season, I give this nit a pass. they're setting something up, and I greatly appreciate it.

So A plot will be called "my two doctors" and B Plot "Unexpected Guests"

So the episode centers around a gaggle of Judoon coming to modern day earth, having been hired to retrieve a fugitive, with this tour guide and her husband seemingly getting mixed up in all this.

As the doctor tries to stop the Judoon from turning this town into a smoldering slag heap, the Companions are one by one, starting with Graham, whisked away into our B Plot: the somewhat janky return of Jack Harkness! Jack's stolen a ship and is trying to tractor in the doctor but he keeps nabbing the companions by mistake, silly Jack and your stolen tech!

After getting shook around in space, Jack returns the companions to the doctor at the end of the episode since the ship has been shot a few too many times with a warning about not giving a lone Cyberman what it wants.

and that's kinda the B Plot. It gets the companions away from the A Plot until the end of the episode so it can setup a potential antagonist. like I said, Jack being a giddy child over a new regeneration and some stolen spaceship escapades could be an episode in itself, esp with the plot hook it drops, but throwing it as a B Plot as we approach mid season to course correct? I'll give it to you, no questions asked.

In A Plot town, it's revealed that the fugitive is an earlier incarnation of the doctor, but one she seemingly has no recollection of, as this past version was hiding as the tour guide Ruth via the memory storage doohickey used in previous seasons, and her husband was the secret keeper.

but not just that: the person who seems to have hired the judoon were another timelord, Gat! More interestingly, as far as Gat and Doctor Ruth are concerned, Gallifrey is all right, as Gat is shocked by a timelord mindmeld with Doctor Jodie.

However due to Ruth tampering with a blaster, a panicked Gat ends up vaporized to nothing and once they enter Space International Waters, the Judoon don't have either jurisdiction or client and they let both doctors go.

the doctors part and Jodie is reunited with the pussycats and given the warning.

This is what I've been waiting for. what looks like a typical monster of the week but given a few twists that will have effects not just on the episode, but future ones. Leave the fans wanting to see where these plot points lead to AND build up on old ones!

The doctor knows Gallifrey is ruined after the Master's shenanigans BUT Ruth Doctor AND ANOTHER TIMELORD fully believe Gallifrey to be OK.

Also: two doctors from different time periods, but neither with any recollection of the other. Hm?

Jack is now in play, again, somewhere out there and he comes with information about a lone cyberman who shouldn't be given what it wants (vague as this is), is this a potential season antagonist with it's own machinations? are those the typical "make everyone a cyberman" of it's kind? Have they found a way outside of that black hole we last left them and taken to the stars/time?

Thumbs up. will probably rewatch later, simply catch what i might have missed the first time around.

[random11]

Yep, very good episode.

Don't see any point repeating what others already wrote, but just two points:

Spoiler

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1) Jack's description - "kind of cheesy, but good cheesy" hits right to the point.

2) Ruth did not recognize what a sonic screwdriver is, so unless it's a mistake by the writers, that means that the split between the doctors (and universes? And time?) happened pretty much from the first Doctor.
At least that's the simplest explanation I can think of, also very possible that the writers thought of a completely different scenario that explains this.

[Fyraltari]

My (and some others) guess on the nature of the fugitive.

Spoiler: HEAVY spoiler for Fugitive of the Judoons

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Basically season 6B made cannon.


Way back when Two's run ended at the end of season 6, the BBC wsn't sure about wether to continue the show which is why we never see the regeneration between 2 and 3. And since there was no actor cast to play the Third Doctor yet, the comic that was being published alongside the series (which kept going during the hiatus) had a the Second Doctor stranded on Earth and explaining that he was doing soe "parole" before his sentence was executed.
This was promptly forgotten come the Third Doctor's run and season 7.

However the repeated appearances of Two later on created some continuity issues. The Three Doctors was okay but in the Five Doctors the Second Doctor and the brigadier are confronted by illusions of two of Two's former companions. The original plan was that the illusions would be Jamie and Victoria and Two would deduce they weren't real when Victoria would call the brigadier "brigadier" when he was only a colonel the only time they met. But since the actress couldn't (or didn't want to i don't remember) film the episode Victoria was replaced by Zoe (a later companion of Two) and the Doctor deduced the trick from the fact that Zoe knew the Brigadier when both her and Jamie's memories were erased. But those memories were erased on Two's last episode. This only became worse when in the Two Doctors not only are Two and Jamie much older-looking than they were during Two's run but Jamie knows what the Time Lords are when he didn't during Two's last episode and Two has a device that allows him to teleport the TARDIS to him whhich he calls a gift from the Time Lords and Six is openly jealous of saying he always wanted one (indeed the Doctor has never in all of his other appearances possessed such a device).

So came the "season 6B" theory: since Four's run established that the Doctor was being manipulated by the CIA (celestial intervention agency, a Time Lord secret government operation) the idea is that the CIA intervened during Two's execution by plucking him out of time and forced him to work for them for a while, giving him the device and his companions back before eventually sending him to his execution and erasing his memories.

So my idea is that at some point Two was wounded and regenerated into "Ruth" (the CIA intervened to give Doc a new regenration to hide that) who is now on the run from them in the form of Gat.

That fits with the TARDIS design and Gat worrying about the idea of a Time Lord being in the same time and place twice (which stopped being a problem around the Five Doctors).

Issues with this theory:
-Ruth not using a sonic screwdiver when Two did. Well, Five never repaired the screwdriver after it was destroyed and Six and Seven did fine without it so maybe she just doesn't like it.
-The Deadly Assassin (a Fourth Doctor episode) states that the 12 regenaration limit is unbreakable. The character making that assertion may not be privy to secret CIA/High Council tech. Note that the Master's goal in that very episode is to break that barrier. Also it was the Five Doctors who introduced the idea of the High Council having the capacity to grant new regenerations, not the New Show, unlike what some have claimed.

Or maybe she's the Valeyard but then the timeline gets very confusing.

[Arkalidror]

My (and some others) guess on the nature of the fugitive.

Spoiler: HEAVY spoiler for Fugitive of the Judoons

Show

Basically season 6B made cannon.


Way back when Two's run ended at the end of season 6, the BBC wsn't sure about wether to continue the show which is why we never see the regeneration between 2 and 3. And since there was no actor cast to play the Third Doctor yet, the comic that was being published alongside the series (which kept going during the hiatus) had a the Second Doctor stranded on Earth and explaining that he was doing soe "parole" before his sentence was executed.
This was promptly forgotten come the Third Doctor's run and season 7.

However the repeated appearances of Two later on created some continuity issues. The Three Doctors was okay but in the Five Doctors the Second Doctor and the brigadier are confronted by illusions of two of Two's former companions. The original plan was that the illusions would be Jamie and Victoria and Two would deduce they weren't real when Victoria would call the brigadier "brigadier" when he was only a colonel the only time they met. But since the actress couldn't (or didn't want to i don't remember) film the episode Victoria was replaced by Zoe (a later companion of Two) and the Doctor deduced the trick from the fact that Zoe knew the Brigadier when both her and Jamie's memories were erased. But those memories were erased on Two's last episode. This only became worse when in the Two Doctors not only are Two and Jamie much older-looking than they were during Two's run but Jamie knows what the Time Lords are when he didn't during Two's last episode and Two has a device that allows him to teleport the TARDIS to him whhich he calls a gift from the Time Lords and Six is openly jealous of saying he always wanted one (indeed the Doctor has never in all of his other appearances possessed such a device).

So came the "season 6B" theory: since Four's run established that the Doctor was being manipulated by the CIA (celestial intervention agency, a Time Lord secret government operation) the idea is that the CIA intervened during Two's execution by plucking him out of time and forced him to work for them for a while, giving him the device and his companions back before eventually sending him to his execution and erasing his memories.

So my idea is that at some point Two was wounded and regenerated into "Ruth" (the CIA intervened to give Doc a new regenration to hide that) who is now on the run from them in the form of Gat.

That fits with the TARDIS design and Gat worrying about the idea of a Time Lord being in the same time and place twice (which stopped being a problem around the Five Doctors).

Issues with this theory:
-Ruth not using a sonic screwdiver when Two did. Well, Five never repaired the screwdriver after it was destroyed and Six and Seven did fine without it so maybe she just doesn't like it.
-The Deadly Assassin (a Fourth Doctor episode) states that the 12 regenaration limit is unbreakable. The character making that assertion may not be privy to secret CIA/High Council tech. Note that the Master's goal in that very episode is to break that barrier. Also it was the Five Doctors who introduced the idea of the High Council having the capacity to grant new regenerations, not the New Show, unlike what some have claimed.

Or maybe she's the Valeyard but then the timeline gets very confusing.

Wow. My own theories now seem woefully inadequate:

Spoiler: Theories of the Judoon

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• The Ruth-Doctor is an alternative version of the Thirteenth Doctor who arose because the Twelfth Doctor came to a different conclusion about himself - "I am... a warrior!"
• The Ruth-Doctor is an alternative version of the War Doctor who arose because the Eighth Doctor picked the "Female" option. (Obviously this one can't be right, the elixirs were placebos, everyone knows that!)
• The Ruth-Doctor is an alternative version of the Ninth Doctor who arose because... I don't maybe, the War Doctor didn't steal the Moment? Fought on the front lines, destroyed the Daleks through blood and sweat and tears...? Don't know about this one.
• The Ruth-Doctor isn't really the Doctor, she's a different Time Lord who was modified to believe she was the Doctor (or a slightly altered version) to serve as a tool for the Time Lords.
• Variation of the above: the Ruth-Doctor is an artificial Doctor, loomed by the Time Lords (not strictly canon, but whatever) using the DNA of every incarnation of the real Doctor. Provided with a TARDIS, given select memories taken from the genuine article, engineered to be inexplicably loyal to her Time Lord masters...
• The Ruth-Doctor is actually the Rani. (I'll see myself out...)

My thoughts on the episodes themselves:

Fugitive of the Judoon

Loved it.

Spoiler

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Jack. His re-introduction felt a little random, not sure where they're going to go with that. But you know what? It's CAPTAIN JACK HARKNESS!! I'm ecstatic that they brought him back. I'll be disappointed if that was a one-off appearance, but I highly doubt that's going to be the case. (John Barrowman wouldn't let them!)

The companions didn't really do much in this episode, but that's fine with me - the story was definitely centred around the Doctor (but which one?), so I'm quite glad they got pushed aside for a while.

Which brings me to next point: the Doctor(s).

The Ruth-Doctor was completely unexpected, and I love it. It was interesting to watch the interaction between the two Doctors, because they're so similar, yet so different. Makes a nice change from all the other multi-Doctor stories - in those ones, the interactions's quite comedic, and that's all good and entertaining, but this... this was tense. Strained. Very different, and a joy to watch. They're being really ambitious this series, and I really hope it's going to pay off. No wonder the Doctor's always talking about hope, it was to prepare us for this!

Praxeus

Really, really liked it. (Runs for cover)

Spoiler

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Good dialogue, good story, good message about plastic pollution that avoided being preachy (since it was a fully integrated part of the plot, and it was only mentioned as a fact; the message was about the situation, not "you should be doing this!"). Quite science heavy, which might've been off-putting for some people, but what can I say? "I'm a sucker for a scientist." I liked the supporting characters, felt very solid. Jake and Adam I particularly liked; I'm gay, so it's nice for me to see a fully developed relationship like that on TV. Doctor and companions were all good, especially Yaz - nice to see here acting more independently, she's always been somewhat overshadowed by Ryan and Graham.

Don't understand what people didn't like about this episode.

Can You Hear Me?

Had its good parts and its bad parts, but for me it evened out to "Okay."

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Cons: Story's messy, it goes all over the place when it didn't really need to. Sonic screwdriver was overused - although, to be fair, they at least tried to explain how it's so overpowered (linked into the TARDIS computational matrices or something, can't quite remember. Underwhelming conclusion to the Zellin/Rakaya plot. Thing with the fingers didn't really work - it was just plain weird.

Pros: Doctor and companions. I don't know about anyone else, but I feel I learned a lot about the characters - the Doctor's uncertainty when she's alone, Ryan's fear of losing his normal life because of his life with the Doctor, Yaz's fear of losing of her life not living up to her expectations (or something like that, her dream thing was hard to interpret. Nice, though.), and of course, Graham's fear over his cancer returning. That last one's impressively dark for Doctor Who, especially when you realise that it's something that's bubbling under the surface since The Woman Who Fell To Earth. Other pros include Ian Gelder's acting as Zellin, which was definitely a highlight for me, and of course there was that unusual but effective animated segment. Visions of the Timeless Child is worth noting; we didn't really learn anything new, but even so, I'm now more interested than ever how this is going to play out. The mental health theme was nice; could've been better in my opinion, but still a good attempt. I liked the Doctor's frankness and inability to console Graham at the end, felt it was a realistic reaction to something like that, while still being (fairly) true to her character.

The Haunting of Villa Diodati

There's been rumours around this episode for a long time, and I was hoping that it'd be good. I was wrong - it was brilliant.

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So this is he; the Lone Cyberman. He was a true menace, very intimidating. I find there's such a big risk of the Cybermen being misused; they might be too robotic or too sleek, or too much of their impact is shouldered on their iconic status instead of them being an actual threat. The horror element of them often gets lost - but not here. He was an actual danger, as the Cybermen should be - after all, just one can convert any number of people. And we've seen first hand what that means for the people converted. I like that the Doctor alludes to Bill - "I will lose anyone else to that!" It's so true to her character that she'd want to shield her current companions from the menace of the Cybermen.

Speaking of which, both Doctor and companions were good. For the first time, we really get to see this Doctor's darker side, something which I think she's been trying to avoid showing. She the best part of her last four incarnations dealing with it, it makes sense that she'd want to avoid going back to that. Companions each played their role admirably. I like that Ryan kind of took a back seat int his episode, with the job of having sensitive conversations with the support cast of the week being give to Yaz instead. (I think she's better at it anyway.)

Support cast (Shelleys, Byron and Polidori) was good. Unlike previous historical episodes so far in Chibnall's era, there wasn't an awful lot about the actual history. That said, there was enough to tease we into finding out more, so good work with that.

All in all, great episode.

[Fyraltari]

Wow. My own theories now seem woefully inadequate:

Spoiler: Theories of the Judoon

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• The Ruth-Doctor is an alternative version of the Thirteenth Doctor who arose because the Twelfth Doctor came to a different conclusion about himself - "I am... a warrior!"
• The Ruth-Doctor is an alternative version of the War Doctor who arose because the Eighth Doctor picked the "Female" option. (Obviously this one can't be right, the elixirs were placebos, everyone knows that!)
• The Ruth-Doctor is an alternative version of the Ninth Doctor who arose because... I don't maybe, the War Doctor didn't steal the Moment? Fought on the front lines, destroyed the Daleks through blood and sweat and tears...? Don't know about this one.
• The Ruth-Doctor isn't really the Doctor, she's a different Time Lord who was modified to believe she was the Doctor (or a slightly altered version) to serve as a tool for the Time Lords.
• Variation of the above: the Ruth-Doctor is an artificial Doctor, loomed by the Time Lords (not strictly canon, but whatever) using the DNA of every incarnation of the real Doctor. Provided with a TARDIS, given select memories taken from the genuine article, engineered to be inexplicably loyal to her Time Lord masters...
• The Ruth-Doctor is actually the Rani. (I'll see myself out...)

Spoiler: Little problem

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Chris Chibnall stated that "Ruth" really was an incarnation of the Doctor with no alternate universe shenanigans or other tricks. Of course he might be lying.

[Androgeus]

Spoiler: My issues with Fyraltari‘s theory

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Does “The Doctor worked for the Time Lords between two other regens” have that much pay off for casual audiences? It’s only very embedded fans that understand that there is a slight hiccup with the second Doctor and how some of his adventures don’t line up nicely with his era. Filing that gap would be nice, I just don’t think there’s an interesting payoff for general audiences.

Also, it’s never The Valeyard. (I find it unlikely that Chibnall would use The Discount Master seeing as he complained about Trial of a Time Lord at time of broadcast)

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: My issues with Fyraltari‘s theory

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Does “The Doctor worked for the Time Lords between two other regens” have that much pay off for casual audiences? It’s only very embedded fans that understand that there is a slight hiccup with the second Doctor and how some of his adventures don’t line up nicely with his era. Filing that gap would be nice, I just don’t think there’s an interesting payoff for general audiences.

That depends entirely on how it plays out, everything can be interesting if it's well done.

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It's entirely possible to play out "We granted you an additionnal life to work for us and erased your memory of it in a way that would be enjoyable for modern fans with just a single line establishing that it happened between 2 and 3, no need to make a big thing out of the positionning.

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Also, it’s never The Valeyard. (I find it unlikely that Chibnall would use The Discount Master seeing as he complained about Trial of a Time Lord at time of broadcast)

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Yeah I was joking about that. The Valeyard really doesn't fit with what the Ruth-Doctor shown on-screen.

Spoiler: Not really related but kinda

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Is it me or does this serie really likes to nod to Classic, I mean there's everything surrounding Ruth, Zellin mentionning the Eternals, the Guardians and even the Toymaker, the Master having his Tissue Compression Eliminator and now Cyberman with an individual name.

[Aotrs Commander]

But DAMMIT, I like the Valeyard! It's a really cool idea and it still technically isn't invalidated by the exact wording ("between twelfth and final,"), 'e could show up anytime they want!

[Fyraltari]

But DAMMIT, I like the Valeyard! It's a really cool idea and it still technically isn't invalidated by the exact wording ("between twelfth and final,"), 'e could show up anytime they want!

I'm sure ol' Boneyard will show up eventually. I just seriously doubt this is it.

[Arkalidror]

Spoiler: Little problem

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Chris Chibnall stated that "Ruth" really was an incarnation of the Doctor with no alternate universe shenanigans or other tricks. Of course he might be lying.

Darn. So much for my theories.

As for the latest episode:

Ascension of the Cybermen

I can summarise my opinion of this episode in one word.
Just.
One.
Word

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Fantastic.

[BisectedBrioche]

Oh heck yes!: The BBC have cast Rebecca Root as the first ever trans companion.

I've been hoping they'd introduce a trans character since Jodie Whitaker's Doctor was announced, given they're pretty trans coded by this point.

[Thufir]

Is it me or does this series really likes to nod to Classic,

I think that's kinda just Chibnall? I mean, if you look at series 11 there's a lot of stuff which hearkens back to early Classic Who:
* Three companion team.
* Small educational moments.
* Historical episodes which spend some time exploring the history rather than just using it as a setting for a sci-fi adventure.
* Restoring the pattern of alternating between historical and sci-fi episodes, but adding in contemporary Earth as a third category.

There's a fair bit about Chibnall's run as showrunner which seems to me like he's very much trying to recapture aspects of the Classic show.
Oh, relatedly also the other day I saw an article saying he'd like to bring back some more Classic companions (spoilers for Fugitive of the Judoon): https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2...an-ace-return/

Oh heck yes!: The BBC have cast Rebecca Root as the first ever trans companion.

I've been hoping they'd introduce a trans character since Jodie Whitaker's Doctor was announced, given they're pretty trans coded by this point.

Neat! Though of course I'd be more impressed if it were going to be onscreen rather than just in the audio adventures.


ION, Ascension of the Cybermen. Great for what it is - the first part of a two-part finale. Of course the proof of good setup lies in the resolution which remains to be seen, but that setup was fantastic.

[Androgeus]

Oh heck yes!: The BBC have cast Rebecca Root as the first ever trans companion.

I've been hoping they'd introduce a trans character since Jodie Whitaker's Doctor was announced, given they're pretty trans coded by this point.

To be entirely clear Big Finish have cast a trans companion, not the BBC.

[BisectedBrioche]

Whoops. Ten years and I'm still getting ahead of myself here.

[Thufir]

Oh yeah, I was also going to respond to this:

Can You Hear Me?

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Pros: Doctor and companions. I don't know about anyone else, but I feel I learned a lot about the characters - the Doctor's uncertainty when she's alone, Ryan's fear of losing his normal life because of his life with the Doctor, Yaz's fear of losing of her life not living up to her expectations (or something like that, her dream thing was hard to interpret. Nice, though.), and of course, Graham's fear over his cancer returning.

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Re: Ryan, there's a bit more there. His specific nightmare was that something awful would happen to his friends and he wouldn't be there to help - while it wasn't specifically addressed as such, essentially his nightmare is that he might make the same mistakes his father did.

Re: Yaz, the implication of the flashback was that she was contemplating suicide, but was talked out of it because her concerned sister had called the police. And in her nightmare her sister said (IIRC) "I won't call anyone. Do it properly this time." Of course we got those relevant points in the other order with a bunch more episode in between, but still I don't really see how that's hard to interpret?
So, yeah. And that one's also getting into pretty dark territory.

[Arkalidror]

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Re: Yaz, the implication of the flashback was that she was contemplating suicide, but was talked out of it because her concerned sister had called the police. And in her nightmare her sister said (IIRC) "I won't call anyone. Do it properly this time." Of course we got those relevant points in the other order with a bunch more episode in between, but still I don't really see how that's hard to interpret?
So, yeah. And that one's also getting into pretty dark territory.

Woah. That sailed straight over my head. I must have distracted by something shiny.

As for the trans Big Finish companion, that's great! "It's about time."

...

Today I had revelation. What I say next may just be the most controversial thing that's ever been said.

Spoiler: Revelation of the Cybermen

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Chris Chibnall is a genius.



Let me explain.

Every since the series returned in 2005, the Doctor has had a dark side - a natural consequence of his Time War experiences. By the time of the Eleventh Doctor, I felt this had gone on a bit too long. Then we had the Twelfth Doctor. The majority of his era was devoted to him exploring, and overcoming, his dark side. So it makes sense to me that Thirteen wouldn't have same angst.

Thing is, that dark side gave the character depth, which I think is my some people don't like Whittaker's Doctor. But it just doesn't make sense for her to just have that dark side anymore. And I like to think that Chibnall saw that. So he's found a way to renew her darkness: the Cybermen.

What else could give her that anger, that hatred, that fear again? Twelve lost Bill to the Cybermen. That's crushing; the conversion process is horrific, and the Doctor must have felt horrible for letting that happen. And we can see that in Thirteen. She won't lose anyone else to the Cybermen. Not again.

And I just realised something else. Thirteen's hope. She needs that hope. She trusts that hope. It's all he had in The Doctor Falls. So now, she's clinging to it.

Just a thought. Disagree with me all you want.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: Ascension of the cybermen

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Sigh. One day the cybermen will be allowed to be their own end-of-season main threat without being upstaged by the Master or the daleks. One day...

Also what exactly was the Lone Cyberman supposed to be doing to the new models* that made them scream?

*Which I freaking love by the way, a perfect bland of new and modern.

Spoiler: Revelation of the Cybermen

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Chris Chibnall is a genius.



Let me explain.

Every since the series returned in 2005, the Doctor has had a dark side - a natural consequence of his Time War experiences. By the time of the Eleventh Doctor, I felt this had gone on a bit too long. Then we had the Twelfth Doctor. The majority of his era was devoted to him exploring, and overcoming, his dark side. So it makes sense to me that Thirteen wouldn't have same angst.

Thing is, that dark side gave the character depth, which I think is my some people don't like Whittaker's Doctor. But it just doesn't make sense for her to just have that dark side anymore. And I like to think that Chibnall saw that. So he's found a way to renew her darkness: the Cybermen.

What else could give her that anger, that hatred, that fear again? Twelve lost Bill to the Cybermen. That's crushing; the conversion process is horrific, and the Doctor must have felt horrible for letting that happen. And we can see that in Thirteen. She won't lose anyone else to the Cybermen. Not again.

And I just realised something else. Thirteen's hope. She needs that hope. She trusts that hope. It's all he had in The Doctor Falls. So now, she's clinging to it.

Just a thought. Disagree with me all you want.

Mandatory reminder that the cybermen are the only recurrent ennemy to have scored an actual no-trick-no-wiggle-room-for-an-happy-ending kill on an established companion on-screen.

[Androgeus]

Spoiler: Ascension of the cybermen

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Sigh. One day the cybermen will be allowed to be their own end-of-season main threat without being upstaged by the Master or the daleks. One day...

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They were the main threat in The Doctor Falls, The Master(s) just also happened to be there.

[Fyraltari]

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They were the main threat in The Doctor Falls, The Master(s) just also happened to be there.

But the Master got all the focus.

[Spacewolf]

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I still think the writing on this doctor is all over the place, it's obvious what they are going for. But the actions are almost exactly the opposite, lets look at the start of the episode Doctor comes in, acts disgusted at the refugees only having one gun, sets up defences which then do nothing for some reason, says to the others to get away but gives them no information as to how since she was just informed the ship was broken, says distraction while standing still letting almost all the cybermen forces concentrate on attacking her companions meaning they get separated and then acts pissy at Ryan that he did get separated.

I mean what was actually supposed to be the intended take away from this?

It kind of feeds into my issue of plots literally being resolved offscreen several episodes this season in that the staff seems incapable of showing not telling.

For example the lone cyberman having his emotions is an interesting idea. But has it ever actually caused any sort of issue? (except maybe for the emotion murder method not working on him) Because even with all the talk I can't think of a single time he's acted outside how I would expect a cyberman to act.

So while it's definitely a step up from some of 11 and 12s stuff on average the message it tries to send for this doctor being so confused means it hasn't reached any notable high points for me.

[Fyraltari]

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I still think the writing on this doctor is all over the place, it's obvious what they are going for. But the actions are almost exactly the opposite, lets look at the start of the episode Doctor comes in, acts disgusted at the refugees only having one gun, sets up defences which then do nothing for some reason, says to the others to get away but gives them no information as to how since she was just informed the ship was broken, says distraction while standing still letting almost all the cybermen forces concentrate on attacking her companions meaning they get separated and then acts pissy at Ryan that he did get separated.

I mean what was actually supposed to be the intended take away from this?

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That the doctor is extremely worried about her companions because the cybermen have cost her both Adric and, more recently, Bill and she has clear abandonment issues?
The defenses are all things that defeated cybermen in the past, them not working is showing that they have upped their game and she is at the end of her rope.

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It kind of feeds into my issue of plots literally being resolved offscreen several episodes this season in that the staff seems incapable of showing not telling.

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What do you mean? I don’t recall any of that.

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For example the lone cyberman having his emotions is an interesting idea. But has it ever actually caused any sort of issue? (except maybe for the emotion murder method not working on him) Because even with all the talk I can't think of a single time he's acted outside how I would expect a cyberman to act.

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Ashad is driven by a messiah complex and hatred, he is not trying to upgrade anyone just kill everybody and keeps fighting even when it seems his forces are limited to three ramshackle cybermen. He is extremely un-cybermanlike.

[Spacewolf]

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That the doctor is extremely worried about her companions because the cybermen have cost her both Adric and, more recently, Bill and she has clear abandonment issues?
The defenses are all things that defeated cybermen in the past, them not working is showing that they have upped their game and she is at the end of her rope.

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What do you mean? I don’t recall any of that.

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Ashad is driven by a messiah complex and hatred, he is not trying to upgrade anyone just kill everybody and keeps fighting even when it seems his forces are limited to three ramshackle cybermen. He is extremely un-cybermanlike.

So while it's definitely a step up from some of 11 and 12s stuff on average the message it tries to send for this doctor being so confused means it hasn't reached any notable high points for me.

[/QUOTE]

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Yes I said it was extremely obvious what the message was but then like I stated what actions does she take that get across that, she says she is worried alot but then doesn't actually take actions that support that. If 13 actually acted as a distraction that would be fine but like I said she just says it then stands still doing nothing.
Yes but why didn't they work, they seemed to be set up, but then the literally don't do anything. It's not like they where shown doing something which then failed. They do literally nothing we where just told they where supposed to do something.

Well the two most obvious where Skyfall where the dancer is set to defeat the enemies without us seeing the doctor interact with it beyond looking at it briefly and Can you hear me where we never learn how the dreams are brought under control. The groundwork for how these things is laid with the dancer being an incredibly obvious prop and it being obvious the dreams where going to be the ladys but it's, set up>????>Dr wins. In those two cases show how the doctor set everything up to teleport the bad guys away to be trapped forever. It doesn't even need to be a long scene just show her actually doing something.

Ashad believes cybermen are the best something all cybermen think. He doesn't like how his upgrade was interrupted because it makes him less cybermanny. (The interesting part.) But never takes actions to make himself a cyberman. No he specifically spares a baby to convert and has a kill count of 2. Literally everytime we've seen cybermen in this show they kill, only converting once they have already won the battle or to build up there forces. Something not possible here because the two teams are so small.

What else is he supposed to do? Doesn't that make him more of a cyberman that even with two small spaceships worth of people he keeps fighting rather than seeking a peaceful solution since all he wants is to have cybermen reign. (There are hints he is either going to go full genocide on everything or start to convert things that arnt human to cybermen. The first is standard cybermen the last would be interesting. )

[Fyraltari]

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Yes I said it was extremely obvious what the message was but then like I stated what actions does she take that get across that, she says she is worried alot but then doesn't actually take actions that support that. If 13 actually acted as a distraction that would be fine but like I said she just says it then stands still doing nothing.

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Yeah, she's trying to distract the cybermen.

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Yes but why didn't they work, they seemed to be set up, but then the literally don't do anything. It's not like they where shown doing something which then failed. They do literally nothing we where just told they where supposed to do something.

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Because they're anti cybermen measures and the attackers aren't cybermen but plain flying robots?

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Well the two most obvious where Skyfall where the dancer is set to defeat the enemies without us seeing the doctor interact with it beyond looking at it briefly and Can you hear me where we never learn how the dreams are brought under control. The groundwork for how these things is laid with the dancer being an incredibly obvious prop and it being obvious the dreams where going to be the ladys but it's, set up>????>Dr wins. In those two cases show how the doctor set everything up to teleport the bad guys away to be trapped forever. It doesn't even need to be a long scene just show her actually doing something.

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Good point

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Ashad believes cybermen are the best something all cybermen think. He doesn't like how his upgrade was interrupted because it makes him less cybermanny. (The interesting part.) But never takes actions to make himself a cyberman. No he specifically spares a baby to convert and has a kill count of 2. Literally everytime we've seen cybermen in this show they kill, only converting once they have already won the battle or to build up there forces. Something not possible here because the two teams are so small.

What else is he supposed to do? Doesn't that make him more of a cyberman that even with two small spaceships worth of people he keeps fighting rather than seeking a peaceful solution since all he wants is to have cybermen reign. (There are hints he is either going to go full genocide on everything or start to convert things that arnt human to cybermen. The first is standard cybermen the last would be interesting. )

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Ashad doesn't spare the baby for conversion he spares the baby because he is sick and weak (indeed that baby historically didn't live long) not because he doesn't want to convert him.
What should he be doing? Trying to build cyber-conversion facilities and rebuild the cybermen to fighting force rather than waste time and resources (and risking to lose what dew cybermen are left). The cybermen are motivated by a belief that they are superior to humanity but they don't hate it, they can't. Their objective has never been the eradication of humanity but the expansion of the cyberrace. Ashad ants to exterminate even though the cyberrace is itself on the brink of collapse and everything seems secondary to this goal in his eyes even his own complete cyberconversion. Not to mention the whole religious bent. He really doesn,'t behave like cybermen usually do.