Life and Dark as a cosmic conflict

[Yora]

I decided that my setting inspired by the Bronze Age and prehistoric animals needs a greater mystical element to it. As a very rough approximation, you can imagine the world as a forest planet that has Mycenaean, Minoan, and Summerian city states in one smallish coastal region, with large reptiles in place of common work and riding animals. (Dark Sun as a forest world, or a more ancient version of Morrowind.)

It felt a bit stale with just city states and jungle ruins and I feel it really needs a much bigger supernatural component. I got a couple of initial ideas, which come mostly from Planescape and Dark Souls, which really isn't a bad place to start.

In it's primordial natural state, the entire universe was just Dark. Dark is not the absence of light, but an immaterial substance that exists in a state of complete entropy. It doesn't do anything, does not have any structure, or really any discernable traits. It just is everywhere.

But there is one other primordial force in the universe, and that is desire. Mystics do not know if there is a source of desire, or there was a being that felt the desire, or if the Dark itself desires something. But in the universe there exist desire for things to be, for things to do, and for things to happen instead of just the eternal quiet of the Dark. The desires turned into spirits, and their thoughts turned into things, which eventually grew into worlds. And they also imagined mortal creatures, who also have thoughts and desires, which keep shaping the world around them.

Worlds exist because spirits imagine them and because mortals perceive and believe in them. If something ever becomes truly forgotten by both mortals snd spirits, it ceases to exist and returns to the Dark. But of course, nobody would ever notice that. And like in Planescape, the world changes when enough people believe it to be different. Simply imagining a change does not work. People have to truly believe that it is true and there needs to be a strong consensus that overpowers contrary beliefs about a thing.

In the wilderness, all the spirits perceive and think of their world differently, making reality much less clearly defined and stable. Spirits perceive the changes caused by other spirits, which changes their own perception and understanding, which also has an effect on their environmen. So reality in the wilderness is always in motion and never fully predictable. This is what makes the wilderness weird or otherworldly.

Humanoid mortals are different because they don't just perceive the world instinctively, but collectively develop shared concepts of what the world is like and how it works. People develop beliefs based on their interactions with each other even more than on what they perceive individually. And once beliefs spread through a population they actually start becoming real. Since people tend to live closely together in small cities and the surrounding farmlands, reality in these settled countries is normally very stable, sharp, and in focus.

The religion of a country shapes the environment and climate of the country, just as its society and culture. Most gods started as just some regular spirit that showed kindness to people, and their faith in the spirit's power to protect them and their land actually gave it these abilities. Faith is extremely important. As long as people have faith that they are protected by their gods and well governed by their kings, the land will remain stable and the chaotic influence of the spirits greatly reduced. But when people have doubt, things become less stable, the influence of spirits increases, and everything gets slightly more chaotic. When things get too bad and people become actually convinced that they are doomed, there is generally no way to stop it. When there is a consensus that disaster is coming, this consensus will make that disaster become real. Priests have some degree of understanding about this and know that it is absolutely vital to always ensure that people keep having faith. Specific beliefs and dogma are not actually important. The only thing that really matters is that people have confidence that they are safe and that current calamities will pass. This means priests will go to extreme lengths to fight any herresy. Yet at the same time when the people's faith is shaken, convincing reformers can actually save a country from disasters. It does noy matter which side comes out on top, only that one side manages to get a majority of people to truly have faith in them.

But it is not that the Dark is evil and that the stability of faith is good. The reason for the existence of anything is desire, and desire means to experience disapointment and loss. Life is also a constant cycle of beings killing and consuming other beings. All life is pain. But ideally, that pain feels worth it.
The only thing that isn't pain is the Dark. The Dark is peace and quiet. But it is also the absence of desire. And there are many people who think that too much life is not good, and that people would be better off with more dark in their existence. The night and sleep are often regarded as the best example of how Dark is good and necessary for existence, and does not have to be feared. But the Dark also means uncertainty and less security, and that frightens many people who seek the stability and hard reality of the cities.

Life is physical, stable, reliable, and energetic, but also stressful and painful.
Dark is flexible, changeable, peaceful, and quiet, but also risky, disturbing, and eventually lethargic and dead. Since it is formless and can be given shape through desire, it's also fundamental to magic.
Finding a balance between these two forces is the eternal conflict that plagues the world. Civilization is based on collective consensus about society and the environment and provides many comforts and security. But it's never that everyone is happy with the way things are, and there are always some who yearn for the semi-stability of the wilderness, and a few who who seek to fully embrace the dark. There is no clear answer, but the stakes can be very high.

In the wilderness, the world always seems a little bit hazy and the light of the sun a bit more dim. In the places beneath the earth or below the sea, where the sun never reaches, the Dark holds full power. The deeper one goes from the surface, the more reality loses its grip and things get stranger and more surreal.
I feel the sun needs to be a strong source of life and order. Everywhere it reaches, it has a stabilizing influence. And perhaps the moon could play a similar role, but with a lesser influence. Full moon nights are perceived as still being somewhat safe and predictable, but the new moon is no time to go out, because whi knows what could happen. An eclipse would be a very bad thing for people who are afraid of the dark.

That's as far as I got yet. I think there's great potential for mystics contemplating the secrets of the Dark, and spirits that come from deep in the Dark and are very ambiguous in their nature. I am also thinking about god kings who are mortal sorcerers who create religions around themselves and actually become god-like once enough people start believing in them. Not quite sure which directions I want to take this, but I am open to any suggestions.

[the_david]

You just turned humans into Kuo Toa.

[thorr-kan]

Interesting metaphysics. It feels very old World of Darkeness: Mage to me. Consensus shapes reality.

This is NOT a bad thing.

You've got a built in reason for social/technological stasis AND empire/ruin cycles, even. That explains two of DnD's biggest conceits.

[brian 333]

The first two paragraphs describe the Law-Chaos axis as it was originally conceived for D&D.

Michael Moorcock's Melnibone is based on these concepts and was the inspiration for Gygax back when there were only three points on the Alignment Line.

You did a good job fluffing it and I think you have a good foundation for your campaign world.

From Moorcock:
A hero can expand the world if he can go beyond the wall that keeps Chaos out and impose order long enough to allow the wall to move to the new border. The area thus added to the world is designed to the will of the hero.

I would propose that this is the origin of demigods.

[Yora]

There certainly are parallels there. But I think in some ways its also quite different. Usually Order is regarded as static and lifeless while Chaos is dynamic and energetic. The Dark is different from Chaos in that it is both impermanent and quiet. Life is different from Order in that it represents energy and emotion.
Nothing that brilliant yet, but I think it could lead to interesting new directions.

I think one big open question is what this means for the nature of undead? One option that seems quite logical would be that undead are lacking the desires and wants that make living beings be alive. A body with no drives of its own would certainly be an unnatural abomination.
But I am much more a fan of incorporeal undead like wraiths and shadows, and right now I don't see them really fitting into this. Perhaps they could be the desires and wants of dead people that continue to linger on, and they are strong enough to draw the Dark to them to start forming new insubstantial shells and continue their existence. But that would make them more like early proto-spirits, not the twisted remnants of a flawed death.
I also wouldn't want to have corporeal and incorporeal undead be completely opposite things. Though when in doubt, I would probably go without corporeal undead if that make for more interesting incorporeal ones.

[Trask]

I think Yora's view of Law and Chaos, Light and Dark, is more in line with the classical associations rather than the Moorcockian/Star Wars ones. Ancient Greek Chaos, Old Norse Ginnungagap, and Yin, are all darkness and chaos but are the passive cosmic principle, as opposed to our more pop-cultural idea of chaos as energetic randomness. In many traditions the Dark preceded the light, and preceded most or all things in general, the material clay of reality but possessing no "DNA" of it's own. To introduce the dark into the light is to destroy creation and attempt to return it to placid, quiet possibility. Chaos is terrifying and destructive because it obscures sight and blurs the lines that define reality.

Its kind of a reversal of the star wars Force in that which one is the active and which one is the passive principle has switched, and I think the switch is largely due to cultural shifts in viewing the morality of action vs reaction.

[Max_Killjoy]

I think Yora's view of Law and Chaos, Light and Dark, is more in line with the classical associations rather than the Moorcockian/Star Wars ones. Ancient Greek Chaos, Old Norse Ginnungagap, and Yin, are all darkness and chaos but are the passive cosmic principle, as opposed to our more pop-cultural idea of chaos as energetic randomness. In many traditions the Dark preceded the light, and preceded most or all things in general, the material clay of reality but possessing no "DNA" of it's own. To introduce the dark into the light is to destroy creation and attempt to return it to placid, quiet possibility. Chaos is terrifying and destructive because it obscures sight and blurs the lines that define reality.

Its kind of a reversal of the star wars Force in that which one is the active and which one is the passive principle has switched, and I think the switch is largely due to cultural shifts in viewing the morality of action vs reaction.

One of my settings plays with the idea of light and life as the intruder into reality of formless everything/nothing/khaos/void/dark/etc that came "before" creation.

[Trask]

One of my settings plays with the idea of light and life as the intruder into reality of formless everything/nothing/khaos/void/dark/etc that came "before" creation.

I like that idea, I've played with the idea in RPGs that life and form are alien structures on an essentially chaotic and dark universe, that the gods and mortal heroes are really the only thing holding it together. And I think the question of whether it really ought to be held together at all should be a valid one for players to explore. I think a setting where players could destroy the world instead of save it and that not be an "evil" thing would be a cool setting.