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Thread: Grappler build

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Grappler build

    I'm working on theory crafting a grappler build and wanted others ideas.

    My objectives are (in this order)
    1. Always have a 75+% chance of winning athletics contests.
    2. Have a halfway decent attack, I'm not looking to be the damage king, just contribute.
    3. Have out of combat utility, the more the better.
    3.5 Be good at stealth.
    4. Be an interesting build.
    5. Must be online by level 10 (starting level)

    My current top contender is Eldritch Knight 7/Lore Bard 3. All successive levels (except 1 if ASI or feat needed) in Bard.

    Rolled stats are
    17 16 16 13 11 8

    My logic for this:

    1. Expertise in athletics with a +4 Str (+5 at next level) gives me a fantastic chance of winning grapple/shove contests with most enemies.
    Grappler feat + Enlarge allows me to grapple any size creatures. Additionally Enlarge or Enhance ability can be used for advantage when what I'm trying to grapple looks strong.

    2. Booming Blade + Bonus action attack (if not needed for something else) gives me a decent damage output.

    3. Leaving Cha at 13 and focusing on utility spells will give me good out of combat utility. Initially it won't be fantastic, but by Bard 6 I'll have a decent spread of low level utility spells.
    3.5 Medium Armor Master (16 Dex) eventually and/or sticking with Breastplate gives me decent AC and expertise in stealth makes me pretty good at stealth. If I go Earth Genasi I can have a 1/day Pass Without Trace for ultimate sneaky sneaky. (I'm hoping to support a current Assassin Rogue in getting their autocrit in more)

    4. It's not super interesting I guess, but it has lots of buttons to push :P

    5. It can grapple well and deal okayish damage right away. Utility is the main thing that builds with more levels.

    For this build
    Earth Genasi
    (18) 16 (18) 8 11 13
    Grappler
    Shield Master. Grapple, attack -> shove with shield.

    And I just found my first flaw... I can't booming blade while grappling someone with a shield....

    Alright I'm not rewriting everything. Replace Shield Master with Tavern Brawler. Shove, Punch -> Grapple

    Subsequent turns or when not grappling I use booming blade with a one handed weapon.

    Thoughts, ideas, improvements welcome.

    Only things set in stone -- Athletics Expertise. Grapple and shove prone in 1 turn. Access to Enlarge for Gargantuan creature grappling. Must have utility spells of some sort.

    Note: I can grapple one size larger if I take a race with powerful build, but it doesn't stack with the extra size from Grappler.


    Edit:

    Newest build
    Goliath
    EK 7/Lore Bard 3
    (18) 13 (18) 8 11 16
    Powerful Build (house rule gives +1 grapple size)
    Warcaster - very low risk of losing concentration except on big hits.
    Sentinel - Makes me sticky and get more opportunity attacks. My AC will be meh from no shield and fighting style being used for Unarmed Fighting UA
    Tavern Brawler - Bonus action grapple after unarmed strike.

    Unarmed Fighting style - 1d6 unarmed strike and 1d4 extra damage on attack to grappled targets.

    Since I'd start with 2 feats I'd probably go with Warcaster and Tavern Brawler. Then decide if I wanted to pick up Sentinel on my next level because either fighter or Bard would give me one from the 7/3 split.

    Round 1: Punch -> Shove -> BA Grapple
    Damage is 1d6+4 + 1d4
    Round 2: Booming Blade -> BA Attack
    Damage is 2d8+1d4+4 + 1d8+1d4+4

    Alternatively if needed replace Round 1 with Enlarge Self -> BA Bardic Inspiration to an ally.
    Then go to above attack pattern and add an extra 1d4 to all attacks.

    This would mainly open up constant advantage for my teammates a Sorcadin and Hexbladelock for smites as long as I can get them in range.

    Spell list as of now

    Booming Blade
    Prestidigitation
    Mending
    Minor Illusion (Bard)

    Shield
    Absorb Elements
    Cure Wounds (inb4 I should take healing word for bonus action. Intentional choice. I want the slightly higher healing because I will be doing it out of combat)
    Identify
    Comprehend Languages
    Feather Fall
    Alarm (will drop to take Continual Flame if I level fighter again)

    Enlarge/Reduce
    Warding Wind
    Enhance Ability
    Invisibility
    Last edited by Galithar; 2020-01-16 at 03:06 PM.

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    nickl_2000's Avatar

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Other races to consider

    Minotaur:
    +2 Str, +1 Con
    1d6+ strength on an unarmed strike without hands gives you more flexibility to grapple someone
    Goring Rush and Hammering Horns fit in really well with a grappler as well.


    Loxodon:
    Powerful Build
    Natural Armor is flavorful of a wrestler, even if it isn't ideal.
    The Trunk allows you to grapple, which gives you a free hand for a shield and weapon


    Goliath:
    Good stats
    Powerful Build
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    1d6+ strength on an unarmed strike without hands gives you more flexibility to grapple someone
    Forgot to mention that we are using variant class features UA and I'll be taking Unarmed Fighting for extra 1d4 against grappled targets and 1d6 unarmed strikes.

    I've looked at Minotaur and because if the UA it has some overlap with my class features.
    Goliath is my second choice, mainly if I decide I need to drop the Grappler feat for something better and therefore need the powerful build.

    And as for Loxodon I just don't think I can wrap my head around playing an Elephant man. Not sure why, because I'd be fine with Minotaur if it fit my build better.

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    Forgot to mention that we are using variant class features UA and I'll be taking Unarmed Fighting for extra 1d4 against grappled targets and 1d6 unarmed strikes.

    I've looked at Minotaur and because if the UA it has some overlap with my class features.
    Goliath is my second choice, mainly if I decide I need to drop the Grappler feat for something better and therefore need the powerful build.

    And as for Loxodon I just don't think I can wrap my head around playing an Elephant man. Not sure why, because I'd be fine with Minotaur if it fit my build better.
    Gotcha, Cow Man okay. Elephant Man not No worries, I get it.

    Given that you are using the unarmed fighting style UA, that makes a pretty big difference in the design and makes the Minotaur less valuable overall. Goliath is still a quality choice.

    I would check with the Dm and see if you can use Booming Blade with an unarmed strike. Since the material component is a weapon that leaves it up to DM judgement somewhat.



    Let me throw one more option for races out there. Druegar +1 strength, +2 Con. Most importantly you get a free casting of Enlarge. For a build like this, that is gold.
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    I'm working on theory crafting a grappler build and wanted others ideas.

    My objectives are (in this order)
    1. Always have a 75+% chance of winning athletics contests.
    2. Have a halfway decent attack, I'm not looking to be the damage king, just contribute.
    3. Have out of combat utility, the more the better.
    3.5 Be good at stealth.
    4. Be an interesting build.
    5. Must be online by level 10 (starting level)

    Note: I can grapple one size larger if I take a race with powerful build, but it doesn't stack with the extra size from Grappler.
    Hi!

    First, note about "powerful build": it does not allow "bigger size Grappling" per RAW (I would definitely allow it though, but that is a houserule).

    Second, IF you have a nice DM you could count on a simple Ritual Caster feat (Bard / Druid / Wizard) for many interesting things to do.

    Based on that...

    Pure classes
    1. Arcane Tricskter Rogue: checks Althetics and Stealth checks with award, has pretty good damage (SA + BB), can access Enlarge spell (needed!), has good mobility (not *really* required but still great), has utility (distant Sleight of Hand with Mage Hand as bonus action, ability to get some useful spells, tack Ritual Caster Wizard on top so you can learn spells, write them down and swap them on next level), has a few defensive things too (Shield, Uncanny Dodge).
    --> Next level you get Reliable Talent, your enemies will hate you.
    Pick Grappler as your first feat, pick either +2 STR or Sentinel (catch-22 if by any chance enemy does manage to break grapple and tries to flee) or Defensive Duelist (+4 to AC can nullify an attack, making it better than Uncanny Dodge. You do have good competition for reaction already though) or Warcaster (possibly best choice, to help keeping Enlarge AND get a chance to land Booming Blade on OA).

    2. 4E Monk: little utility, you'll need Ritual Caster; no Expertise, so you'll want to pick Prodigy or use Stunning Strike / Hold Person beforehand especially since you'll still be a DEX build. On another hand, you get incredible speed, great resilience with Dodge as bonus action, and next level you get Fly, opening up heaps of great shenanigans as long as you have some space.
    It's basically the previous build with a much tighter focus on actual grappling.

    3. Totem Barbarian, with Elk (speed) or Bear (resilience) first: advantage on STR checks, good resilience, decent mobility, sadly even less utility than Monk. You'll want to rack up utility feats.

    4. Shepherd Druid: direct damage will be lacking, but you'll be a king in utility.

    MULTI CLASSES

    1. INT Arcane Tricskter Rogue 5 / Bladesinger Wizard 5: like the Arcane Trickster with two twists: DEX based (slightly lower Grapple efficiency) and no Uncanny Dodge, traded for more mobility, more spells, more AC, more concentration.

    2. WIS Monk / Druid: dip a Rogue for Expertise if you want specific race and still good efficiency, otherwise a 5 / 5 is sound: Extra Attack and Stunning Strike from Monk, spells from Druid (especially Haste if Grassland). Can be tuned several ways (Mobility + Haste is great if you have a friend that can maintain a damaging AOE).
    Nature Cleric / Long Death Monk: use armor, consume Ki mainly on Dash/Dodge, keep creatures grappled in Spirit Guardians: 5/5 is nice for Extra Attack (two chances to grapple or grapple two creatures at once), 7/3 works well for more Spirit Guardians. No need for Grappler here, instead stack Resilient:Constitution and Warcaster.

    3. CHA Paladin / Divine Soul Sorcerer: 7/3, 6/4 or 5/5 are all great (as well as dipping one level in Rogue for Expertise if you'd like). Grab Subtle and Extend, pick Enlarge, Aid and Fly as well as Shield.
    CHA Paladin 3 / Sorcerer 4 / Swords Bard 3: would probably feel clunky to build from level 1, for you no problem: Vengeance, Redemption and Devotion are all good choices for Oath.
    Your damage will rely solely on Booming Blade and potential smites, Sorcerer is same as above, Bard for extra mobility. Next level pick Bard 4 for ASI, then as you wish.

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    Default Re: Grappler build


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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Since the Grappler Feat does exactly this:

    You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you are grappling.
    You can use your action to try to pin a creature grappled by you. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, you and the creature are both restrained until the grapple ends.

    It's mostly only useful if you want to lock down movement without providing disadvantage to your Ranged allies (at the cost of locking yourself down too).

    I can think of some other ways I'd like to spend an ASI for a grappler.

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    If Unearthed Arcana is on the table a Duergar Rune Knight can get to Size Huge all by themselves. The Ild (Fire Rune) ability is also very good for restraining a foe.

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    Zombie

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Note that enlarge/reduce is not a bard spell, you need at least 6th level lore bard to get it.

    You can get improve ability which is similar. You can't grapple bigger creatures, but get a bonus to carry load.

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    I'm preparing a similar build, although I start at level 5 and the campaign will likely finish at 7-8. Thus I'm going for swords bard, which may give some boost to speed and AC from time to time.

    Consider gauntlets of ogre strength if you don't want to maximize str. You don't really need an high strength, because with expertise your athletics checks will be good enough. However it will help if you get it from a magic item. It's an uncommon item, so the dm should not be worried.

    Con saves are important, however not as much as you may think, because you will likely always concentrate on enhance ability and in the worst case you only lose the advantage (but still have high athletics). It would be different if you had enlarge / reduce, but you need a different set up for that.

    Be sure to get long strider for the speed.

    I'm also taking disguise self and expertise in deception, with the idea of infiltrating the enemy base and make grappling surprises. But that's just a preference.
    Last edited by follacchioso; 2020-01-16 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    Since the Grappler Feat does exactly this:

    You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you are grappling.
    You can use your action to try to pin a creature grappled by you. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, you and the creature are both restrained until the grapple ends.

    It's mostly only useful if you want to lock down movement without providing disadvantage to your Ranged allies (at the cost of locking yourself down too).

    I can think of some other ways I'd like to spend an ASI for a grappler.
    It also allows you to grapple a creature 1 size larger than normal. Very important if you don't want a Gargantuan enemy to be 100% immune to your schtick. With Grappler I would only have to worry about things that are otherwise immune like incorporeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by follacchioso View Post
    Note that enlarge/reduce is not a bard spell, you need at least 6th level lore bard to get it.

    You can get improve ability which is similar. You can't grapple bigger creatures, but get a bonus to carry load.
    That's actually solved by the EK levels. I used the one non-abjuration/evocation to pick up Enlarge/Reduce. I'll use my Lore Bard 6th level magical secrets for Spirit Guardians and Counterspell.

    Edit: I also took Enhance Ability for the build as it gives advantage for up to an hour. For if I need it for multiple battles with advantage and/or want the Dex advantage for initiative.
    Last edited by Galithar; 2020-01-16 at 01:33 PM.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    It also allows you to grapple a creature 1 size larger than normal. Very important if you don't want a Gargantuan enemy to be 100% immune to your schtick. With Grappler I would only have to worry about things that are otherwise immune like incorporeal.
    This is simply not true. The third bullet point of Grappler from the first printing of the PHB stated that creatures 1 size larger than you would not automatically escape grapples. It never effected anything 2 sizes larger.

    It was actually referring to an older version of the grappling rules from the playtest that never made it to print. The feat was almost immediately errata-ed to remove the third bullet point.

    You can view errata here https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/d.../PH-Errata.pdf just search for grappler

    And view the current rule text for the feat here https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/grappler

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    Since the Grappler Feat does exactly this:

    You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you are grappling.
    You can use your action to try to pin a creature grappled by you. To do so, make another grapple check. If you succeed, you and the creature are both restrained until the grapple ends.

    It's mostly only useful if you want to lock down movement without providing disadvantage to your Ranged allies (at the cost of locking yourself down too).

    I can think of some other ways I'd like to spend an ASI for a grappler.
    *Sigh* How many times will I get to read this?

    The important part is here: "You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you are grappling."
    The pinning part is the actual accessory.

    On a Barbarian, Grappler feat is probably redundant most of the time: you can get advantage with Reckless Attack if need be, or use some archetype feature (at least one Totem has it) to get a creature prone as part of an attack or move. It would definitely be worth on an Elk / Bear / Eagle Totem Barbarian though, forgot that particular build.

    On a Fighter, past level 11, it would probably become equally situational, because even if you want to Shove prone since you now get 3 attacks per Attack you can afford to "consume" two attacks.
    Plus, unless being Eldricht Knight, you'll have too reduced of a speed to make a regular use of the dragging ability, so you'll probably prefer just Shoving enemy, Grapple it then smack him while being confident on your ability to survive without moving much.

    On a Monk? You could use your bonus action on another attack because you want as many chances to Stun as possible, or you could want to use it on something else entirely, like Dodging to facetank the grappled creature. If in addition to that, you want to Shove, then you deal 0 damage on the first turn. Not very important for a target that has enough HP to "last" several rounds, but for lesser creatures it's a regular waste of attack potential. Especially when you want to Dash.
    And there should be many reasons to Dash while grappling creatures unless you really have nobody with any lasting AOE.
    Furthermore, keeping the creature "standing" indeed does not hinder your ranged attackers, but it can also provide a +2 AC against ranged attacks from its friends (of course, it may also mean you are making cover for it for your friends depending on relative positioning and things, but that's better than cover AND disadvantage nonetheless).

    On a Rogue? It's the right way to be completely self-sufficient in enabling Sneak Attack (which, let's recall, requires advantage or melee ally) without having to rely on dual-wielding, which would be troubling without Unarmed Strike or additional limb since otherwise you do have one hand taken by the grapple (and unless I'm mistaken, sadly, by RAW and probably RAI using your Attack's weapon attack on a Grapple would not qualify as enabling two-weapon fighting weapon attack). Meaning you can safely land Booming Blade + Sneak Attack with high chance of success with your action, then Dash as bonus action to put yourself and/or the creature wherever you see best fit.
    Besides, considering the amount of damage a level 10 AT would land (Booming Blade + rapier + Sneak Attack = 1d8+5+1d8+5d6, average 31.5) as long as party focus fire a bit you should be able to kill a creature quickly. Meaning opportunity to start another Grapple in the same fight.

    ----
    Anyways...
    Moving creatures around is *extremely* powerful unless you're really alone and without any environmental hazard that you could use. The main problem is that considering the movement spent to get to creature, and the movement to spend to drag optimally, you want at least a "reserve" of 20-25 feet to have viable tactical options. So this kind of mindset requires specific classes, features, or spells (from you or friend). And Grappler enhance your attacks while letting you focus on that, so the more damage you can deal on single hit and/or the less number of attacks you get the better it is.

    In long fights where you grapple the same creature for many and many rounds, Grappler would definitely be worthless for most people (Rogue still apart), since you'd "waste" only one extra weapon attack on the first round, then have "full attack" all the other ones...
    Thing is, many people around here tend to say that fights are short, with an average of 3-4 rounds. So every bit of spared offense is proportionally much more important.

    With that said, the real value of Grappler, as in all feats, will depend on many things: own character, party composition, and ability to teamwork. For example, if you have a Barbarian and a melee Battlemaster, chances are you'll manage most of the time to coordinate to Shove the creature and gang upon it, so then whatever class you are Grappler would rarely come into play.

    Opposite example: 4E Monk with a Druid liking Spike Growth as his mundane tactic can deal huge amount of damage for little effort once Grapple is on.
    Last edited by HiveStriker; 2020-01-16 at 02:03 PM.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    What about a Half Elf Swords Bard 10 with Tavern Brawler and Heavily Armored?
    20/13/17/8/11/18, expertise in athletics (+13) and stealth (+9 but disadvantage), dueling style (1d8+7 longsword attacks), 4 flourishes per short rest, plenty of spells to help.
    Take Resilient (constitution) at level 12.
    Try to get mithral plate armor to undo stealth disadvantage.
    Against mages, grapple+silence is good if you can get it to work.
    Haste (as a magical secret) lets you grapple and cast a spell on the same turn.

    Or just a monk or barbarian with one level in rogue.
    Last edited by CheddarChampion; 2020-01-16 at 02:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by HiveStriker View Post
    *Sigh* How many times will I get to read this?
    Probably lots since those seem like niche builds to me and a grappler is already very niche to begin with. Too many adversaries are already immune to grappling by virtue of size, or flat out immunity like Water Wireds.

    Still kudos for finding areas where it would be useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiveStriker View Post
    With that said, the real value of Grappler, as in all feats, will depend on many things: own character, party composition, and ability to teamwork. For example, if you have a Barbarian and a melee Battlemaster, chances are you'll manage most of the time to coordinate to Shove the creature and gang upon it, so then whatever class you are Grappler would rarely come into play.
    Here I wholeheartedly agree. Because even in your above examples you could be a Kobold, or be standing next to a Wolf Totem Barbarian, or using a Shadow Blade in dim light or darkness, or using the optional Flanking Rules (which I actually don't recommended to anyone), or any other means of gaining advantage on attack roles.

    In the course of a combat I have found a single attack to shove is a pretty trivial cost, especially when weighed against an ASI which I will never get back, but that is just my experience.
    Last edited by GlenSmash!; 2020-01-16 at 02:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Perhaps take a look at Grungs

    Barbarian 1/Rogue 1/Battlemaster 8 build

    Take Unarmed Fighting Style
    ASIs - Heavy Armor Master +1 Str, +2 Str, Res(Wis)
    20 Str, 18 Dex, 17 Con, 11 Int, 14 Wis, 8 Cha

    Advantage on Str checks while raging and Expertise in Athletics
    Rage to soak damage
    Usual Battlemaster tricks - In particular you want access to the UA Restraining Strike Maneuver:

    Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack on your turn, you can expend one superiority die and use a bonus
    action to grapple the target Add the superiority die to your Strength (Athletics) check. The target is also restrained while grappled in this way

    Solid saves, HP and Damage Mitigation
    Grapple as a bonus action when you punch someone
    Grappling can poison the target - Perhaps your unarmed strikes too. Check with your DM. Poisoned condition gives disadvantage to attack your or escape grapples.
    Excellent Ranged Fighter as you have a high dex and can poison your arrow tips for extra damage.

    Your main problem will be your attacks are not magical. Make sure to get the OK from your DM to get an Insignia of the Claw - Uncommon magic item from Horde of the Dragon Queen. Also come up with someway to have access to water regularly as Grungs have that requirement. Decanter of Endless Water and a tarp is enough.

    Finding a source of Enlarge would be your next goal. Potions of Growth are relatively cheap at 10th level. Stock up on those when you face off against larger foes.

    Other ideas:

    V Human
    Battlemaster 7/Shadow Monk 3
    Unarmed Fighting Style + Restraining Strike
    ASI: Mobile, +2 Dex, Alert
    16 Str, 20 Dex, 16 Con, 11 Int, 14 Wis, 8 Cha

    Less grappling focus but you'll still have a reasonable chance to grapple/restrain with restraining strike when you choose to
    Instead, you get +10 Initiative and crazy mobility. Bonus action shadow step up to 60' to most dangerous foe, Grapple/restrain them, Ki point to Dash and you can drag them 45' away to be put to a quick death on your allies turns. Unarmed Fighting Style means a Monk Dip is totally possible and provides unarmed damage without committing deep into Monk levels.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2020-01-16 at 03:15 PM.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    This is simply not true. The third bullet point of Grappler from the first printing of the PHB stated that creatures 1 size larger than you would not automatically escape grapples. It never effected anything 2 sizes larger.

    It was actually referring to an older version of the grappling rules from the playtest that never made it to print. The feat was almost immediately errata-ed to remove the third bullet point.

    You can view errata here https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/d.../PH-Errata.pdf just search for grappler

    And view the current rule text for the feat here https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/grappler
    Bah. Not sure if it's a houserule or my DM misinterpreted an old printing because he's the one that told me. I'll have to check with him.

    Either way I always have the houserule option of just using a powerful build race. I'll lose my once per day Pass Without Trace but retain my ability to grapple big ass creatures.

    Well now I know that Grappler will do nothing for my build. There are some niche uses of the second point, but I don't care about advantage for my attacks. I'm not a primary damage dealer, mostly because I'm a decent optimizer who knows the rules well (except on **** I don't use like Grappler apparently lol) in a group of low to mid optimization. If I go for lots of fancy flashy things in combat I risk dampening others fun. So if I can have fun, make sure we don't die, and let them have maximum fun I do.

    Alright. My newest build is

    Goliath
    Same stats
    Drop Grappler and grab Sentinel? Maybe Warcaster? It's really difficult to fail a concentration check with a +8 and advantage, but the OA with Booming Blade instead of a normal attack is appealing.

    Houserule lets me grapple +1 size from powerful build. And I say again because it'll get missed if I don't. Yes, this is a houserule. Yes I know it's not RAW.

    Edit: Updated OP with a more newest build.
    Last edited by Galithar; 2020-01-16 at 03:07 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    I'm working on theory crafting a grappler build and wanted others ideas.

    My objectives are (in this order)
    1. Always have a 75+% chance of winning athletics contests.
    2. Have a halfway decent attack, I'm not looking to be the damage king, just contribute.
    3. Have out of combat utility, the more the better.
    3.5 Be good at stealth.
    4. Be an interesting build.
    5. Must be online by level 10 (starting level)

    My current top contender is Eldritch Knight 7/Lore Bard 3. All successive levels (except 1 if ASI or feat needed) in Bard.

    Rolled stats are
    17 16 16 13 11 8

    My logic for this:

    1. Expertise in athletics with a +4 Str (+5 at next level) gives me a fantastic chance of winning grapple/shove contests with most enemies.
    Grappler feat + Enlarge allows me to grapple any size creatures. Additionally Enlarge or Enhance ability can be used for advantage when what I'm trying to grapple looks strong.

    2. Booming Blade + Bonus action attack (if not needed for something else) gives me a decent damage output.

    3. Leaving Cha at 13 and focusing on utility spells will give me good out of combat utility. Initially it won't be fantastic, but by Bard 6 I'll have a decent spread of low level utility spells.
    3.5 Medium Armor Master (16 Dex) eventually and/or sticking with Breastplate gives me decent AC and expertise in stealth makes me pretty good at stealth. If I go Earth Genasi I can have a 1/day Pass Without Trace for ultimate sneaky sneaky. (I'm hoping to support a current Assassin Rogue in getting their autocrit in more)

    4. It's not super interesting I guess, but it has lots of buttons to push :P

    5. It can grapple well and deal okayish damage right away. Utility is the main thing that builds with more levels.

    For this build
    Earth Genasi
    (18) 16 (18) 8 11 13
    Grappler
    Shield Master. Grapple, attack -> shove with shield.

    And I just found my first flaw... I can't booming blade while grappling someone with a shield....

    Alright I'm not rewriting everything. Replace Shield Master with Tavern Brawler. Shove, Punch -> Grapple

    Subsequent turns or when not grappling I use booming blade with a one handed weapon.

    Thoughts, ideas, improvements welcome.

    Only things set in stone -- Athletics Expertise. Grapple and shove prone in 1 turn. Access to Enlarge for Gargantuan creature grappling. Must have utility spells of some sort.

    Note: I can grapple one size larger if I take a race with powerful build, but it doesn't stack with the extra size from Grappler.
    lvl 2 rogue, barb X. expertise+advantage on grapple checks. first level rogue means lots of skill proficiencies + an extra expertise, second level of rogue gives bonus action dash meaning you can still move a someone up to 40 feet (after getting extra movement from barb) even after you've grabbed them. tavern brawler as a feat since the build is called 'grapple king'. but really the build comes online at like level 3. as far as attack, i mean, you have sneak attack (which can proc on str attacks) and you have the ability to give yourself sneak attack if you want, and then you have rage damage. so you're looking at what, a bonus 1d6+2(+) damage per turn ish?.

    race: ehh, i mean, if you're point buy than pretty much anything with any combination of str/dex/con is gonna be solid. although a +2 str is probably optimal (goliath works well, half-orc or orc is also probably a solid option. V.human can also be good, (but thats almost always true.)


    for more out of combat utility consider:
    -barbarian subclass: there are a few subclasses that are much more suited for out of combat than others. totem warrior in particular can help alot with exploration utility.
    -a couple more levels in rogue: mastermind has some neat OOC abilities at lvl 3, thief gives you a pseudo climb speed out of combat, arcane trickster gives spells. so...ya know.
    -drop a level in knowledge or nature cleric: obviously this may be pushing things as it would mean 13 wis as well as good dex/con/str. so probably not a great idea unless you have a fairly large point-buy, or you roll for stats and roll well. also just the fact that you have 3 classes is...strange. but, hey, it can work. either way just level in either subclass gives you some solid out of combat options on top of just..spells.

    a slight alternative to the above: 1 barb rogue x: as was pointed out you'll still have the adv on grapple checks and such, but now you've got more rogue levels for out of combat utility. however you lose out on mult-attack.
    here's the reason multi attack is preferable IMO:

    if you have multi attack, you can grapple+move+shove all in the same turn. so, if you're near a cliff/large fall you can use the shove to toss them over the edge. if you're not near those, you can use the shove to knock them prone. so now not only can't they move. they're also attack at disadv, while you're melee allies have advantage. *and* you've pulled them to an area that your allies don't need to over extend to reach. so now they need to either 1: just ****it and attack at disadvantage. or burn their action to try to break out of your +10 (with adv) grapple check before they can stand up. but now they've used their action and can only move half speed.
    Last edited by kazaryu; 2020-01-16 at 03:25 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Stranger in the Playground Retired Moderator Ventruenox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildarm View Post
    Perhaps take a look at Grungs
    I'm going to second this, especially with the new Way of Mercy monastic tradition. In particular, the Hands of Harm feature:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hands of Harm
    3rd-level Way of Mercy feature
    You use your ki to inflict wounds. When you hit a
    creature with an unarmed strike, you can spend
    1 ki point to deal extra necrotic damage equal to
    one roll of your Martial Arts die. If the creature is
    incapacitated or poisoned, the creature instead
    takes necrotic damage equal to three rolls of
    your Martial Arts die instead. You can use this
    feature only once on each of your turns.
    As bare contact with Grung skin can inflict the Poisoned condition at a DC of 8+Prof.+CON, this is a resource cheap way of doing more damage as a grappler than possibly any other build. Sadly, it makes this build extremely MAD.

    A monk Grung has a few other gimmicks going for it. A standing leap of 25' with Step of the Wind is a viable way to add some falling damage to your victim before dropping them prone at the the party Rogue's feet. Exceeding movement with the jump? Slow Fall. Stunning strike is always useful. As mentioned above, the Poisoned condition will force disadvantage on all attacks and ability checks.

    Slippers of Spider Climb on this character would be simply unfair.

    If you want to multiclass, the Barbarian's Unarmored Defense would suit this build better, plus the advantage you get when raging. A Fighter dip could get you Action Surge and the UA Unarmed Fighting style to tack on an extra 1d4 damage to each attack on your grapple victim. Rogue can net you some Expertise and maybe some Sneak Attack damage.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    I'm working on theory crafting a grappler build and wanted others ideas.
    Newest build
    Goliath
    EK 7/Lore Bard 3
    (18) 13 (18) 8 11 16
    Powerful Build (house rule gives +1 grapple size)
    Warcaster - very low risk of losing concentration except on big hits.
    Sentinel - Makes me sticky and get more opportunity attacks. My AC will be meh from no shield and fighting style being used for Unarmed Fighting UA
    Tavern Brawler - Bonus action grapple after unarmed strike.

    Unarmed Fighting style - 1d6 unarmed strike and 1d4 extra damage on attack to grappled targets.

    Since I'd start with 2 feats I'd probably go with Warcaster and Tavern Brawler. Then decide if I wanted to pick up Sentinel on my next level because either fighter or Bard would give me one from the 7/3 split.

    Round 1: Punch -> Shove -> BA Grapple
    Damage is 1d6+4 + 1d4
    Round 2: Booming Blade -> BA Attack
    Damage is 2d8+1d4+4 + 1d8+1d4+4

    Alternatively if needed replace Round 1 with Enlarge Self -> BA Bardic Inspiration to an ally.
    Then go to above attack pattern and add an extra 1d4 to all attacks.

    This would mainly open up constant advantage for my teammates a Sorcadin and Hexbladelock for smites as long as I can get them in range.

    Spell list as of now

    Booming Blade
    Prestidigitation
    Mending
    Minor Illusion (Bard)

    Shield
    Absorb Elements
    Cure Wounds (inb4 I should take healing word for bonus action. Intentional choice. I want the slightly higher healing because I will be doing it out of combat)
    Identify
    Comprehend Languages
    Feather Fall
    Alarm (will drop to take Continual Flame if I level fighter again)

    Enlarge/Reduce
    Warding Wind
    Enhance Ability
    Invisibility
    Now we are talking. Warcaster is solid for Booming Blade AoOs.

    I would consider getting Shadow Blade at some point (like EK 8 or Bard 6). When you have someone grappled and prone, cast Shadow Blade and hit them twice for 2d8+Strength+1d4. it will outdistance Booming Blade over the course of a typical fight and you could still do Booming Blade with it. Plus you can throw it and summon it back as a bonus action if need be. And in Dim Light or Darkness you'll have advantage without knocking prone.

    Summon that bad boy and Action Surge and you'll have a round full of laying hurt on someone.
    Last edited by GlenSmash!; 2020-01-16 at 05:24 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    Now we are talking. Warcaster is solid for Booming Blade AoOs.

    I would consider getting Shadow Blade at some point (like EK 8 or Bard 6). When you have someone grappled and prone, cast Shadow Blade and hit them twice for 2d8+Strength+1d4. it will outdistance Booming Blade over the course of a typical fight and you could still do Booming Blade with it. Plus you can throw it and summon it back as a bonus action if need be. And in Dim Light or Darkness you'll have advantage without knocking prone.

    Summon that bad boy and Action Surge and you'll have a round full of laying hurt on someone.
    Shadowblade was a thought, but I also will start with 1 rare item. If I go with a flametongue I won't need it. It also takes concentration and I think by Bard 6 I'd rather take Spirit Guardians and concentrate on that for most fights.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
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    Vinland
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    Default Re: Grappler build

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    Shadowblade was a thought, but I also will start with 1 rare item. If I go with a flametongue I won't need it. It also takes concentration and I think by Bard 6 I'd rather take Spirit Guardians and concentrate on that for most fights.
    Sound reasoning. Spirit Guardians is fantastic.

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