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    Default a change in profficiency... (Pathfinder 1e)

    in my home setting I'm considering a change to how profficiencies work.
    basically no non-proficient penalty.
    if you are given a proficiency, you instead gain a bonus +1 to hit and damage, or AC, scaling upward for armor, and weapons. ie. simple +1, martial +2, exotic +3.
    if you are given a specific weapon like longsword it applies an additional +1 when wielding that weapon.
    also exotic weapon profficiency applies to all exotics and is a fighter bonus feat.


    in essence a fighter will always hit harder with the same weapon, and will have higher AC with same armor.

    how will this affect balance?
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    Default Re: a change in profficiency... (Pathfinder 1e)

    Quote Originally Posted by arkangel111 View Post
    in my home setting I'm considering a change to how profficiencies work.
    The effects these changes have on PC balance are of course very game and play style dependent, so I'll try answering this assuming your game is similar to a "typical" official AP played according to guidelines and that it's pretty easy for a party to buy/craft/find the magic items they want.

    basically no non-proficient penalty.
    This will likely have little effect, but it's not a bad thing IMO.

    Note however that wearing heavier armor will probably become a no-brainer for certain classes/PCs, especially once they can afford variants which are treated as being of a lighter category (darkleaf cloth, mithral, celestial, celestial plate). For example, there's little reason for clerics (medium armor proficiency) not to get a full plate (+9 to AC without proficiency bonus) instead of a breastplate (+8 to AC with medium proficiency bonus), and even less once mithral versions are affordable as they'll then also get the proficiency bonus (if I've correctly understood your changes, see below).

    if you are given a proficiency, you instead gain a bonus +1 to hit and damage,
    When it comes to weapons, these changes are likely to increase the power of martial classes during earlier levels when they need the boost the least, but won't matter much later on (unless perhaps if the PCs frequently fight enemies of a CR far above their level).

    I also question the idea of increasing damage even further, as dealing enough damage is very rarely going to be a problem for a weapon wielding PC with such a focus (there are already tons of cheap damage boosts in the game). There are plenty of other far more tactically interesting stuff you can do with weapons but which unfortunately are far trickier to build for, (such as using combat maneuvers for a control and/or defender/"tanking" combat role), and I think it would be a much better idea to look at possible changes for such things rather than increased damage.

    or AC, scaling upward for armor, and weapons. ie. simple +1, martial +2, exotic +3.
    I assume the weapon categories correspond to the armor ones (light, medium, heavy)? Regardless, while armor heavier than light could do with a boost, I'd probably look at lessening the speed penalties and the effects of other unbalanced stuff (no natural flight, relatively very expensive special material costs etc) first, and perhaps increase the difference in AC bonus between the armor types second.

    Also, it's typically very easy for anyone with martial weapon proficiency to gain proficiency with an exotic weapon, as all they need is to find/craft/buy a cheap 500 gp COWPIS (cracked opalescent white pyramid ioun stone).

    Finally, how are you going to treat proficiency with natural weapons, and is natural armor going to stay unaffected (making the monsters relying on it the most even easier to beat relative their CR)?

    if you are given a specific weapon like longsword it applies an additional +1 when wielding that weapon.
    What does this refer to? Weapon familiarity racial traits? Warpriest focus weapons? Anyone simply getting say Martial Weapon Proficiency (longsword)?

    also exotic weapon profficiency applies to all exotics and is a fighter bonus feat.
    This is IMO a nice little bonus fighter treat that you can keep regardless of whether you decide to make the other changes. But if you want to give fighters an edge with combat stuff which really matters, if you don't already I recommend you give fighters free Combat Stamina instead and/or in addition to free EWP.

    in essence a fighter will always hit harder with the same weapon, and will have higher AC with same armor.
    Fighters already do that thanks to weapon and armor training. Also, I don't see how this change will make say paladins gain less AC from wearing full plate than fighters without armor training?

    how will this affect balance?
    I think the big things to consider here are:
    1. There's more than enough damage for weapon wielders in the game, and overkill damage rarely has a different effect on combat than "enough" damage has.
    2. Attack and damage vs AC and hp mostly matters for damage focused martial PCs and similar types enemies.
    3. These changes won't make it more attractive for a PC to switch between different weapons, as even a fighter typically want to stay with the one specific weapon having the properties best matching all their other investments (ability scores, feats, class features, other items, etc) and their intended combat focus/role(s).

    Which brings us to the big question: what is the intended goal of these changes?

    Are you simply looking to remove proficiency penalties without making proficiency worthless because you don't like default penalties or...?

    (If you're looking to make combat with weapons, especially melee, more interesting and versatile, I recommend you first take a look at the well-tested and widely used Elephant in the Room houserules which remove a bunch of annoying combat feat taxes.)
    Last edited by upho; 2020-01-18 at 10:38 PM.

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