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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Josh the Aspie's Avatar

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    Default White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    I have a friend online who has specifically requested that I run a campaign for her where she plays a white mage like out of Final Fantasy (she didn't specify which version).

    On the crunch side, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for classes.
    "Healer" is an obvious possibility due to the low combat high healing abilities, but other than that, anything else?

    On the flavor side, I'm debating between using a D&D world (Dragonlance, Ferun, Eberron, Greyhawk, or even one I know called Arcanis), stealing one from one of the Final Fantasy games, or making one up, inspired by the theme (Thus, there would have to be air ships, moogles, and a prominent guy named Cid).

    If other people in the group want to continue the theme, any class suggestions for Black Mages, and the like?

    She's played Faerun before. If I know her, she'll likely want the game to get... mature... in nature. And she has... exotic... tastes.
    Last edited by Josh the Aspie; 2007-10-22 at 06:20 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    White Mage - Healer's probably your best bet. Cloistered Cleric could work in a pinch.

    Black Mage - Warmage's probably your best bet. Sorceror could work in a pinch.

    Fighter - Fighter's actually a good enough fit. Possibly Knight.

    Thief - This one's actually kind of tricky; thieves in the original final fantasy were basically agility-focused fighters over sneak attackers. Still, the rogue class is probably your best bet to grab the flavor and the skills thieves had in other games. Perhaps clap on the elven 'detect secret doors' for a nod to FFV.

    Black Belt - This is another tricky one - FF1 Black Belts were glass cannons, not much like the monk class. Picking the D&D monk means you don't have to homebrew, but I really don't think it fits as well... perhaps something to give them added damage at the expense of their AC? (Rage?)

    Red Mage - A red mage pretty much is a bard.
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    There's about a billion final fantasy rule sets people have come up with. But that being said
    The Cloistered Cleric from Arcana Unearthered (and also here) covers white mages rather nicely.
    Wizard covers Black Mage.

    Since Final Fantasy itself has it's origins in dungeons and dragons, the classes really shouldn't be that distant.
    I don't think you get it.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Really, for the wizard types, you'd be better off designing a default "caster" class, and then building a custom spell list for each of them. Run it with a spell-point system (it's just like MP!) and you'll be most of the way there.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Well first of all, I'm not just talking about the original final fantasy, but the series as a whole.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    The spellcaster generic class can be anything you want it to be. Leave it up to the player what constitutes a white mage or a black mage.
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    From what I know of it, the Factotum from Dungeonscape strikes me as a good class for Red Mage; both combat-capable and possessed of decent spellcasting abilities, if he's so inclined.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    I'd actually worry more about the problem of playing a mature game than the spellcasting system now that you have good examples from which to build up. A mature game requires very mature players, and games of seduction and treason, pacts and loyalty are not for everyone. As Paranoia would say: "Be Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!"

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    I actually just slapped a modified cleric spell list to the Healer (and if they don't already have 1/2 BAB I slapped that on there; I can't exactly remember at this moment). Healers seemed really underpowered to me, so this works out better to me.

    The Spellist I'm using:
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    Overall changes: Few direct damage spells, no Inflicts, basically no Evil spells; pick one of Lawful or Chaotic. Debuffs like Bane are a-ok. No summoning spells.

    0-
    CMW (Cure Minor Wounds)
    Detect
    -Disease
    -Magic
    -Poison
    Guidance
    Mending
    Purify Food and Drink
    Read Magic
    Resistance
    Virtue

    Change: I don't remember. :|

    1-
    Animal Friendship
    Alarm
    Attraction
    Bane/Bless
    Bless/Curse Water
    Calm Animals
    CLW (Light Wounds)
    Deathwatch
    Detect Alignment
    Detect Undead
    Doom
    Endure Elements
    Entropic Shield
    Invisibility to Undead
    Obscuring Must
    Protection from Alignment
    Shield of Faith
    Speak with Animals
    Trance
    Weapon Bless

    Change: Remove all evil spells.

    2-
    Aid
    Align Weapon
    Ancestral Vengence
    Animal Messenger
    Augury
    Bear's CON booster.
    Calm Emotions
    Commune with Lesser Spirit
    Create Spring
    CMW
    Delay Poison
    Eagle's Splendor
    Enthrall
    Ghoul Touch
    Hold Person
    Invisibility to Spirits
    Know Motivation
    Lesser Restoration
    Owl's Wisdom
    Protection from Spirits
    Rebuke
    Remove Paralysis
    Speak with Plants
    Warning

    Change: Remove all Evil spells, Remove Bull STR add Bear CON

    3-
    Bestow Curse
    Blind/Deaf
    Castigate
    Contagion
    CSW
    Detect Curse
    Dispel Magic
    Invisibility to Enemies
    Levitate
    Locate Object
    Magic Circle against Alignment
    Magic Vestment
    Mental Strength/Weakness
    Posess Animal
    Prayer
    Protection from Elements
    Remove
    -Blind/Deaf
    -Curse
    -Disease
    Substitution

    Change: Remove Speak w/dead

    4-
    Air Walk
    Chaos Hammer
    CCW
    Discern Lies
    Discern Shapechanger
    Dismissal
    Divination
    Dream Sight
    Fatigue
    Holy Smite
    Lesser Spirit Ally
    Neutralize Poison
    Order's Wrath
    Polymorph Self
    Reanimation
    Reincarnate
    Remove Fatigue
    Restoration
    Snake Barrier
    Spell Immunity
    Sustain
    Unholy Blight

    Change: Remove Evil spells,

    5-
    Advice
    Atonement
    Blood of Fire
    Break Enchantment
    Circle of Doom
    Commune with Greater Spirit
    Control Winds
    Dispel Alignment
    Disrupting Weapon
    Dream
    Ethereal Jaunt
    Healing Circle
    Nightmare
    Possess
    Raise Dead
    Scrying
    Symbol of Sleep
    True Seeing


    6-
    Animate Objects
    Antilife Shell
    Bear's Con spell, Mass
    CMW, Mass
    Eagle's Splendor, Mass
    Etherealness
    Find the Path
    Force Shapechange
    Geas/Quest
    Greater Dispelling
    Harm
    Heal
    Owl's Wisdom, Mass
    Planeshift
    Spirit Ally
    Stoneskin
    Symbol of Persuasion
    Undeath to Death
    Vulnerability
    Wind Walk

    Change:

    7-
    Blasphemy
    Control Weather
    CSW, Mass
    Dictum
    Greater Restoration
    Holy Word
    Refuge
    Regenerate
    Repulsion
    Resurrection
    Sunbeam
    Symbol of Stunning
    Word of Chaos

    Change:

    8-
    Antimagic Field
    Cloak of Chaos
    Compel
    CCW, Mass
    Dimensional Lock
    Discern Location
    Earthquake
    Greater Spirit Ally
    Holy Aura
    Mass Heal
    Shield of Law
    Spell Immunity, Greater
    Summon Nature's Ally VIII

    9-
    Astral Projection
    Gate
    Miracle
    Soul Bind
    True Resurrection


    Warmage with the Eclectic Learning variant's a good idea for the black mage, I'm using the Duskblade as a Red Mage, Bards are the same (with Dancers just being the Harbringer Bard variant), Knights work for, well, the Knights. I actually made a Dragoon class! , and I'm slowly working on making a FF10 setting. I've got a Blitzballer class in the wings (I'm stalled out on the last ability and some scaling of other abilities), and a FF-style monk is also vaguely being worked on. I might scrap it and go more FFT/FF6 style one, but whatever.

    For the 'Mature' ideas, there's always the Book of Erotic Fantasy >:V. I actually have it, and where it's not being very silly and somewhat dumb about the, er, the more exotic things and the racial ideals on sex (especially the orcs and stuff) it's not a terrible book. You're not really going to get any better than it, anyway. I hope that's what you meant by Mature. I really hope that's what you meant.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    I've determined that I'll go with healer, or a variation there of to represent an order of "White Mages".

    Cloistered Cleric strikes me as a bit to focused on knowledge, and not quite enough on healing / positive energy for an order of white mages.

    If I was trying to be reminiscent specifically of a game like FFX, where casters eventually learned both types of casting, and could access everything, I might use the generic spell casting class, but the flexibility to pick any spell doesn't lend it to white, black, red, or blue magic very well.

    Oh. That reminds me. The spell theif class probably winds up being a good 'blue mage' class, especially if there is a feat, or variant out there that lets you steal supernatural abilities. Any ideas from the crowd?

    As for Dragoons, something from the book of 9 swords, with all the jumping and weird maneuvers should fit just fine.

    For red mage I'd probably point one of my players at Bard, or maybe at Mystic Theurge if they want to play up the two sides of magic angle. I'm not familiar with Dungeon Scape.

    If I manage to gather any players, I won't force them into any of the FF roles. At this point I think I'd wind up making my own campaign world. None of the existing campaign worlds except Eberron fit the feel of Magi-Punk quite right, and that one's more Magical Pulp than Magi-punk, not epic enough, far to bleak.

    As for the mature game angle... paraphrased quotes from her already include "Wiggles the white mage ass" and "I want to adventure into a village where healers are rare. Maybe because the orc hord carries them all off."

    For her getting carried off by the orc hord would not necessarily be a bad thing, as long as she remained among the living, but 'useful' captives. *sigh*

    I have other players who would definitely fit into a game where we actually give serious treatment to villain motivation and they aren't assured of winning, and betrayal is an option that I could count on or convince to join.

    I'm still not sure just what she wants to get out of the campaign, but I am not going to run a D&D campaign where someone plays "to loose", or invite other players to it... and there's no way a white mage could really make it on their own.
    Last edited by Josh the Aspie; 2007-10-23 at 04:58 AM.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantolin View Post
    Fighter - Fighter's actually a good enough fit. Possibly Knight.
    Plus you need some kind of prestige class for the ability to wield swordchucks.
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    there is a black mage base class homebrew, made by deshrimp
    Useful for characters similar to Vivi (ff9) or black mage (8-bit theater)

    Also: making sword-chucks (as well as other combination weapons)
    Last edited by Drglenn; 2007-10-23 at 07:41 AM.
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    The spell theif class probably winds up being a good 'blue mage' class, especially if there is a feat, or variant out there that lets you steal supernatural abilities. Any ideas from the crowd?
    Something like the "Steal Spell Like Ability" class feature they get at level 5? :P

    Anyway, I think that Final Fantasy magic works most like Domains or Mantles: either from the domain wizard variant, or obscure splatbook gods, or etc. White Mages get something like Healing and Protection; Black Mages get Fire, Thunder and Ice, Time Mages get Celerity and Trickery, etc, etc.

    EDIT: For style points, name each domain after an Esper, and make once per day domain abilities accordingly. Old-School Magicite, yo.

    However, it sounds like your friend isn't overly concerned about the mechanics of this game. Maybe you two should just do something freeform- or you could just turn her down if you're not comfortable with that kind of game.
    Last edited by Fishy; 2007-10-23 at 09:41 AM.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Okay, so she's basically wanting to play with a rape fantasy, is what I'm reading into that. Maybe you should suggest something set in Gor as an alternative possibility.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Yes Fishy.

    :P I'm not exactly familiar with Spell Theives okay? I know they exist, they steal magic, and work kind of sort of like rogues in other areas... and that a guy I know has wanted to play one for a while.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Okay, it looks like I've got my second player, who is playing a spell theif, but I'm looking at the possibility of giving him skirmish instead of sneak attack, since he likes skirmish a lot better. We're dropping the AC bonus, and using the skirmish damage from Scout, at the same rate he would have gained sneak attack.

    Any implications of this people can think of?

    Also, I just read the class and there is no ability to steal supernatural abilities (rather than spell like abilities). Are there any feats out there that would let one do this?

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Skirmish instead of sneak shouldn't unbalance anything. As for the feat, just make one up. Spellthief level 6 should make a decent prerequisite for the feat. Here's an example of the wording:

    A spellthief with this feat can use her steal spell ability to steal supernatural or spell-like abilities. The target of this feat must have hit dice equal to or less than the spellthief's character level.

    You might want to drop that last, but I think it helps to prevent cheese (like stealing a great wyrm's breath weapon, for instance).
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    I As for Dragoons, something from the book of 9 swords, with all the jumping and weird maneuvers should fit just fine.
    I've got a Dragoon class I homebrewed up just a week or so ago; have you seen it?

    I ask mostly because I'd love to see it used and playtested.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    k i just have to say BARD IS NOT RED MAGE red mage was a rapier wielder with light armor and a slowly advanced version of both blasting and healing and don't say sublime chord, also in comparison to black mage / white mage they got the 2 biggest things of there spell lists fire,bliz,lightning and cure / double cast but none of the bigger things like flare,holy,life and such so yeah BARD doesn't = redmage nor does duskblade for that matter.... yeah!!!!!

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by raichi View Post
    k i just have to say BARD IS NOT RED MAGE red mage was a rapier wielder with light armor and a slowly advanced version of both blasting and healing and don't say sublime chord, also in comparison to black mage / white mage they got the 2 biggest things of there spell lists fire,bliz,lightning and cure / double cast but none of the bigger things like flare,holy,life and such so yeah BARD doesn't = redmage nor does duskblade for that matter.... yeah!!!!!
    How about chameleon or even Jaerom Darkwind's red mage prestige class? Would that work?
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh the Aspie View Post
    I have a friend online who has specifically requested that I run a campaign for her where she plays a white mage like out of Final Fantasy (she didn't specify which version).
    My first reaction is to recommend a cleric with the Good and Healing domains.

    For the Black Mage, I would suggest a blaster sorcerer.
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by Runolfr View Post
    My first reaction is to recommend a cleric with the Good and Healing domains.

    For the Black Mage, I would suggest a blaster sorcerer.
    Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric (both variants found in the SRD and/or unearthed arcana) with the domain of Protection and Healing, if you ask me.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Thanks for all the input guys.

    We've currently got a Healer (white mage), a spell theif (blue mage), a bard (red mage), a barbarian, and a psion.

    The Psion is an Elan (I know, I know) and the bard is based on the anthropomorphic species from the Monster manual. He's somewhere between the cat and the weasel. I basically used the weasel stats, but evened out the mental stats (all +0), took away the weasel's ability to hold on with a bite, and in it's place gave him a +4 racial bonus to hide, which matches the +4 racial bonus to move silently.

    I'm using a variation on the training rules from the DMG. People can start training ahead, and you don't necessarily need a trainer... but working without a trainer doubles the training time (but it does save you some money at least). To "train" a skill you either need to use it extensively (like if you were going to add points to search, disable device, and open lock after going through a kobold warren), or specifically spend time training it.

    Further, certain feats are "Regional" in that you need to travel to that region to reliably find a trainer. This will lead to sort of a circuit of the campaign world for the healer to find various temples, the barbarian to find training if he wants exotic techniques, and for the psion to find and study new powers and supernatural abilities. The spell theif will probably need to go someplace in particular to find someone to train them in how to steal supernatural abilities (once I finish fleshing out that feat).

    We're starting in a city by the sea, and I've determined that it will be hobgoblins that capture the white mage. They're better at strategy, but have less raw physical power. This will let me play smart and still play them at APL without necessarily killing the party off.

    There's going to be 4-5 of them at a time facing the challenge of the hobgoblins.

    And I've let them either roll for gold (the local currency is the Gilder), or take a default package.

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    Question Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Actually, I'm glad I found this thread because I've been wondering if there are any legitimate classes in D&D resembling the Time Mage from FF?

    Nothing homebrew though, thanks, since those are often way too overpowered.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    5 months. Really now. 5 months! Does noone read the rules anymore? Does noone care? Why? Why is our world like this? What is happening to us all?
    *curls up into a huddled ball*
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Wizard. Prepare Slow, Haste and other Batman spells. Also...

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    For Time Mage, what about Chronomancy? Is a chronomancer even available for PCs?

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    Quote Originally Posted by Haborimasu View Post
    For Time Mage, what about Chronomancy? Is a chronomancer even available for PCs?
    Check out the time domain for clerics in regards to appropriate spells, alternately look at things like haste and time stop. Given the dramatic effect any manipulation of time and thus the combat system has, these spells are already viewed as extremely powerful.

    Also, make a new thread. It's not that much to ask.
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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    For the record, did you make any house rules to the Healer? It's a very, very bad class by its default.

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    Default Re: White Mages (and other FF types) in D&D

    hang on, does this meas theres no final fantsy d20?, huh, it seems like sutch a natural fit too, they're super popular and have one medium, we have a whole new medium and a bunch of guys who'd homebrew any faults witch can be adapted into "1.5".

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