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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    They seem to share some sort of past, but you're right, from what we know their relation may have resulted just from capture and interrogation.

    On the other hand it seems strange Stanley would not recognize a royal from his ruling family, she would have been born like she is now. I wonder also about the city and its units, wouldn't they recognize her rank and obey her?
    How do we know that Gobwin Knob was the kingdom that Jillian was cost? Stanley "rubbed out the Milquetoast"; but he might not of done a very thorough job of it. This is Stanley we are speaking of.
    Last edited by Justyn; 2007-10-25 at 05:22 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    On the other hand it seems strange Stanley would not recognize a royal from his ruling family, she would have been born like she is now.
    Good point about nobility popping like everyone else. I guess that's how King Slately got Ansom: "City, produce a warlord prince to be my heir!" And then wait a long time (nine months?).

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    You know, I think Stanley just saved Gobwin Knob. The element that Jillian hates (the great Tool) has now left the city, only leaving Wanda, who she loves. This might tip the scales and make the spell control Jillian again!

    Also, that Foolamancer is awesome. Just proves that real wizards wear pruple
    Last edited by MrEdwardNigma; 2007-10-25 at 06:09 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Ansom has 60% of his siege engines, and can, with slightly more difficulty, punch a hole through Parson's defenses. Then his overwhelming numbers will simply crush the gobwins remaining behind, Parson, Wanda, Sizemore, Bogroll, the two Warlords and the remaining, unnamed 'Mancer.

    Does anybody honestly see a way for Parson to even survive without a DeM? Let alone take the fight to Ansom like he did last time?

    Winning is no longer an option for Parson. Surviving is looking mighty grim as well.
    Parson does have a few advantages left.

    1. A Thinkamancer. Thinkamancers presumably can provide instructions to units at range. Misty was probably more valuable, tactically, but this still shouldn't be overlooked.

    2. Defenses. Even with everything gone to boop, the castle is still standing, and still one of the toughest places around. Ansom is still down heavily in turms of his siege.

    3. Wanda. Assuming he can talk her out of her funk, Wanda is probably worth more than every other caster in the game put together. It's been stated again and again that she has overwhelming magical talent and extensive knowledge that she never puts to use. If Parson could convince her to use that somehow, she could make a significant difference. She could act as a Lookamancer for scouting, a Foolamancer for veiling, a... well, we don't actually know what the other 'mancers do. But she can do all of it. She just hasn't, until now.

    4. A summoning spell. It's not compeletely clear it works like this (it could be one-shot, I guess), but in theory, Parson could just convince Wanda to use the summoning spell again and summon up more warlords. This is tricky, since it seems like it takes a lot out of her, and they don't have much time... but warlords are valuable (upgrading units to them takes "mucho shmuckero"). Pulling a hand of the best warlords and military geniuses in the universe out of thin air could turn anything around.

    5. Ansom is off-balance. He doesn't know what to expect; things have been going the way he never would have expected them to, and he nearly got croaked last turn. He's also in love, which only makes you more powerful in the movies. Any of this could easily lead him to make a mistake.

    6. Ansom is still poorly-informed. He doesn't know where Stanley actually is, he doesn't know where the dwagons actually are, he thinks that any of it could be veiled anywhere, and he's just seen Stanley's side use strategies he never would have expected. If Parson summons up a bunch of warlords, or convinces Wanda to bring out magic she hasn't used in combat before, or whatever, Ansom won't know about it until it hits him. He could make the mistake of being too careful, too, instead of too rash; after this near-disaster for his side, he could easily see veiled dwagons and deadly traps around every corner. After that last episode, when he comes up and sees an empty capital with no dwagons... he's going to think it's a trap. Which works to Parson's advantage, slightly, since it isn't.

    Ansom's uprightness is his disadvantage here. No matter how evil he thinks Stanley is, he probably wouldn't be able to imagine anyone doing what Stanley just did, so he won't be able to take advantage of the situation as well as he could have.

    7. If it does come out that Stanley is gone, Ansom's alliance could be in trouble. They signed on to get Stanley, not to capture a leaderless (but still nastily defended) capital for Jetstone; a lot of his allies would probably decide to go their seperate ways at that point. There would be a loss of purpose and intra-alliance disagreements among Ansom's side in general. Remember how many casualties were predicted in Ansom's charge? He planned to use all the Marbits as a feint. They might object to going through with that if all it accomplishes is winning Jetstone a city... All of this works to Parson's advantage.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-10-25 at 07:18 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Stanley made one very serious blunder in this comic.

    Besides choosing not to attack a weakened and potentially croakable group of his bitterest enemies who hold one of the very artifacts he's been questing for this entire time, the Tool is running, taking the Arkenhammer, the Foolamancer (King Lear reference FTW) and his best knights, and leaving the fortress under the command of:
    a) A guy summoned from another world, who is ambivalent, at best, towards his cause, and who he threatened to disband on multiple occasions
    b) An uber-Machiavellian caster who he just chewed out and who has an extremely close, if bizarre, relationship with one of the principal enemy commanders
    c) Assorted other leaders who have no particular reason to like him.

    Here's predicting Parson and Wanda, at least, defect to Ansom, even if not able to just surrender outright. They can always trade information on Stanley for asylum. Any way you slice it, I get the feeling that Parson is not going to just sit tamely in Gobwin Knob, fighting a war he already feels is lost to benefit the Tool. He's up to something.....
    And whatever it is, it's bound to be good.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    *scratches head* I don't quite get this argument about 'what came first', art-wise. I was just saying what that picture reminded me of. All I was thinking of was that the comic holds a lot of pop culture references and homages, obscure and less so, and taking a stab at maybe placing one of them. I didn't even have any particular expectation of necessarily being right.
    My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongos View Post
    I don't know why you need "full paint" if your running away, is'nt that kind of thing used for battle? Unseen because of being veiled then suddenly appearing from nowhere in full paint on dwagons!
    Given that Ansom has no lookamancers and relies upon scouts to see enemy units... not so sure about that. Ansom only knows enemies are there when his units move into enemy-controlled hexes; if it's not his turn, he's blind as to what's going on until there's a collision of his forces and Stanley's.
    The Foolamancer's there, most likely, to hide Stanley when he can't move.

    The Thinkamancer could probably still give orders. I think the Foolmancer creates illusions, and that was his function in the table, to make an illusion of the map for others to see. The Lookamancer looked and told the Foolamancer what to make and the Thinkamncer linked them and delivered the real time orders.
    The thinkamancer can give orders, but what would he do in the field? All of GK's units in the field have been recalled. Any ground units sent out would presumably not be able to return and would most likely be croaked on Ansom's turn. The only air units that have been shown on GK's side are fully under Stanley's control, and the dwagons only obey the one who wields the Arkenhammer.
    Right now, Parson's probably thinking up the best defenses... or a way to make sure he, Wanda and Sizemore aren't croaked on the Alliance's turn.
    Last edited by sihnfahl; 2007-10-25 at 07:58 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Stanley made one very serious blunder in this comic.

    Besides choosing not to attack a weakened and potentially croakable group of his bitterest enemies who hold one of the very artifacts he's been questing for this entire time, the Tool is running, taking the Arkenhammer, the Foolamancer (King Lear reference FTW) and his best knights, and leaving the fortress under the command of:
    a) A guy summoned from another world, who is ambivalent, at best, towards his cause, and who he threatened to disband on multiple occasions
    b) An uber-Machiavellian caster who he just chewed out and who has an extremely close, if bizarre, relationship with one of the principal enemy commanders
    c) Assorted other leaders who have no particular reason to like him.

    Here's predicting Parson and Wanda, at least, defect to Ansom, even if not able to just surrender outright. They can always trade information on Stanley for asylum. Any way you slice it, I get the feeling that Parson is not going to just sit tamely in Gobwin Knob, fighting a war he already feels is lost to benefit the Tool. He's up to something.....
    And whatever it is, it's bound to be good.
    We don't know that Stanley is running. It is very possible that he is planning on attacking Ansom right now. The Foolamancer veiling trick might let him get some nasty sneak attack and has a max on how many units it will affect, hence the smaller formation than possible. Or Stanley might only have enough schmuckers to promote 3 of his knights to Warlords and only Warlords can mount dwagons.

    Personally, I hope Stanley is heading into the field. I would love to see that nasty looking armored dwagon munch a self-righteous archon :)
    'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

  9. - Top - End - #99
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by GWvsJohn View Post
    Or Stanley might only have enough schmuckers to promote 3 of his knights to Warlords and only Warlords can mount dwagons.
    We've seen a gobwin riding a dwagon after being informed that Manpower was "Stanley's last warlord" (presumably the latter refers to living warlords, unless Wanda animated that entire lineup since then).

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    We've seen a gobwin riding a dwagon after being informed that Manpower was "Stanley's last warlord" (presumably the latter refers to living warlords, unless Wanda animated that entire lineup since then).
    Yeah, but that scene stands out for a few things. First, it's not just a gobwin, Wanda clearly implies that it's a henchman, and they might have special rules. Second, that scene is just flavor (or fluff if you prefer) and the gobwin might be obligated to dismount should combat begin. So, yes, a gobwin does ride a dwagon there, but I'm not convinced by it that rank-and-file infantry can ride dwagons tactically.
    'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    I'd just like to go off the current topic to mention how RIDICULOUS Stanley looks. xD

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    Before we determine whether Parson has a plausible chance of winning, we must first decide what 'winning' involves.

    What's the victory scenario for Parson in this comic?
    I think that this is when Parson begins to actually ask that question.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Korota View Post
    I'd just like to go off the current topic to mention how RIDICULOUS Stanley looks. xD
    Ridiculously awesome that is
    'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by GWvsJohn View Post
    Ridiculously awesome that is
    Personally, I find the chest hair disturbing.

    random thought on the foolamancer's line:

    "we all float down here" is kind of like saying, "we're all in the same place, doing the same thing", or more idiomatically, "takes one to know one".
    Last edited by fendrin; 2007-10-25 at 09:32 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    What happened re: the Thinkamancer? There were three mages linked, were there not? Misty, the Fool, and the Thinkamancer.

    What happened to him? Is he also dead?
    Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    What happened re: the Thinkamancer? There were three mages linked, were there not? Misty, the Fool, and the Thinkamancer.

    What happened to him? Is he also dead?
    The remaining mancer was last seen apparently bending down over Misty (it's hard to tell for sure; it's a wide view and the figures are small).

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    What happened to him? Is he also dead?
    She. Her breasts have been the subject of multiple threads, since they made people think she was Misty. And, as noted, she was alive and apparently checking Misty's pulse last time we saw her.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    What happened re: the Thinkamancer? There were three mages linked, were there not? Misty, the Fool, and the Thinkamancer.

    What happened to him? Is he also dead?
    We'll see her again when the last three mancers link up...

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    A stack isn't necessarily limited to eight units; that's just the point at which the bonus maxes out (and so increasing the stack beyond that point runs into diminishing returns, and perhaps other limits that haven't been described yet).

    That said, it's possible that veiling can only cover so many units. (I note that if it can't cover at least 22 units, it wouldn't have been an option for hiding the wounded dwagons and warlords even if Parson had known about it and had been able to arrange for the Foolamancer to be available on the scene).
    Yes, I think that's it. Something was needed to outcool the combined coolness of Evel Kneivel and the Fonz in a world with no Chuck Norris.

    And that is... KISS. Mounted on dwagons. Oh, and they're invisible. Team Jetstone will have to come up with coolness on the level of pirate ninjas or ninja pirates to beat that. Or Chuck Norris.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    We'll see her again when the last three mancers link up...
    Uncroaked Dirtamancy! Ick!

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    There's no way that Stanley's running.

    We know that he only cares for his quest to gain all the Arkenpliers. The last thing his battlefield intel told him indicated that he had as good a shot as he'll ever have at getting them this turn, with the Alliance command wounded and stranded over a lake.

    Why would he only take three KISS members for his "plan?" That speaks to a limitation of the Foolamancer; perhaps he can only veil a stack of 8? That could go two ways: Either the unveiled dwagons attack first, preoccupying the commanders so that Stanley has a clear and unchallenged shot at Ansom, or; Stanley attacks by surprise first, and then the unveiled dwagons appear to cover his retreat with the 'pliers. Both are just simple and cunning enough to fit Stanley's personality. Once Stanley has the 'pliers he has the option of fleeing immediately or going back to GK to pick up the rest of KISS and whatever else he wants (if he's going solo, he will want his own private army). What happens after that depends on whether he attunes to the Arkenpliers, and what powers they offer if he does.

    If Stanley leaves GK promptly, as I think he will do, Parson "wins" by default, because GK isn't the target. Stanley is. The major variable is, what actions does he take to negotiate the terms of any interaction with the Alliance? Does he throw his all into a defense and hope to impress them enough that they recruit him as a warlord? Does he raise a white flag and let it be known that Stanley isn't here, don't hurt us?

    There is foreshadowing that he will "shock and awe them, just standing on the city walls, commanding the fight." But then, given the context it could be so much hot air from Stanley.

    It just occurred to me that Stanley fits the exact description of the 1st Edition D&D munchkin: with his artifact level weapon and his army of subdued dragons in tow, having cast Slay Ruler and Transfer Loyalty of Populace. Oh, and that outfit of his made me laugh out loud. Rock that chest hair, pipsqueak!

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by fractal View Post
    Uncroaked Dirtamancy! Ick!
    Wanda can "manage a number of magicks outside of Croakamancy, but [she has] no interest in them". Whereas Sizemore is "good at nothing outside [his] specialty. But [he does] love to study everything".

    So, what would you assume would happen when you link the minds of:

    1. A caster that has phenominal magical power, but not very much knowledge;
    2. A caster that has average magical power, but a phenominal (by Erfworld standards) knowledge of magic;
    3. And a caster that we do not know anything about, but is likely average or above average.

    And then done in such a way as to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

    I would say that they would be able to cast a gestalt spell that can either raise the croaked back to life, or able to create an uncroaked that still has an intact mind.

    And this isn't an out of the blue thing:
    Stanley, and to a lesser degree, Wanda herself have commented that Wanda is an amazing caster. And Parson and Sizemore himself (modestly) said that Sizemore has great knowledge in magic.

    Sizemore also stated that "the joint mind [the linked casters] can cast spells that a single caster cannot comprehend".
    Last edited by Justyn; 2007-10-26 at 12:14 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    And four linked casters "can't even be done" (wink, wink). But with such exceptional casters, such a dire situation, and a mathamancy device with which to guesstimate the likelihoods of success, I can see them trying it. Parson is already thinking outside the rules--"Maybe he can't [disband me]"-- so I don't think it's out of the question.

    I'd hate to imagine what Wanda could do with her power, Sizemore's knowledge, and the extra knowledge and talent of a third caster. There is always the weapon of mass reconciliation option, but I don't think they'll try that first.

  24. - Top - End - #114
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Um, I think you people are forgetting the costs of linking casters. Like, they lose their individuality. And tend to go mad or die when the link is broken. Out of the three people we've seen linked so far, one is dead and one appears to be insane (granted, he might have been insane to begin with.)

    Still. Do you really think Parson is the sort of person who would order (or even ask) his friends to do something like that?

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Stanley's going on tour! [are the extra dragons 'roadies?']

    ... and he cribs two newscasters in saying goodbye!

    Walter Cronkite

    and

    Edward R. Murrow
    Last edited by Fineous Orlon; 2007-10-26 at 01:41 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Wender View Post
    And four linked casters "can't even be done" (wink, wink). But with such exceptional casters, such a dire situation, and a mathamancy device with which to guesstimate the likelihoods of success, I can see them trying it. Parson is already thinking outside the rules--"Maybe he can't [disband me]"-- so I don't think it's out of the question.
    Maybe, but who would be the fourth caster?

    We only knew five casters in Stanley's employ. The three Eyemancers (Looka, Thinka, Foola), Croaka Wanda, and Dirta Sizemore. And now, Looka (Misty) is dead and Foola is gone with the wind Stanley. Parson has only three mancers in his reach. Of these three, one is in a state of shock, one wants nothing more than hide in a hole and wait until he can surrender, and the last one Parson knows nothing about. Yeah, he could pull off a link, but it's going to take some work.

    Parson himself is not a caster, even if he has a mathemancy device. It would be interesting if he tried to be linked with a mancer trio, so that he'd use Sizemore's knowledge with Wanda's power to his own end (the Thinkamancer's only role is to provide the link anyway), but I that doesn't seem likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser1 View Post
    I think Misty's still very small compared to Parson. Parson is just holding her out in front of him a ways, i.e. she's in the foreground very close to the camera, while Parson is more in the background, making them seem closer in size.
    Exactly, That's what I'm thinking, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex View Post
    Where does it say that is Jillian the proper owner of Gobwin Knob? She says he (Stanley) cost her a kingdom, but it could be referring to some other kingdom he attacked, of which there seemed to be quite a few. Also in one of the strips you linked, I thought Vinnie would know if Gobwin Knob was originally owned by Zamussels.

    I'm also not sure if a barbarian would live on a fort in a crater, but that's a matter of opinion.
    yup, also: after the Tools death, as long as Parson is chief warlord shouldn't he become the new king (or whatever) of GK?
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelon View Post
    yup, also: after the Tools death, as long as Parson is chief warlord shouldn't he become the new king (or whatever) of GK?
    If he let Stanley go to his death, and then becomes the new ruler of Gobwin Knob, does that mean he becomes overlord through regicide, kinda?
    Last edited by Gez; 2007-10-26 at 03:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
    Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    If he let Stanley go to his death, and then becomes the new ruler of Gobwin Knob, does that mean he becomes overlord through regicide, kinda?
    I'd rather say by doing Erfworld kinda favor!

    Besides he is not letting Stanley going anywhere. Stanley just goes - try to stop him.

    What happens to Parsons upkeep? If he becomes the ruler, does he have to pay for himself? Not likely, I'd expect the upkeep is 'frozen' as long as he is the one holding the key to the treasury - of course that could mean no more happy meals but so what? Bogroll made a walnut pigeon pie already, it shouldn't be a problem (eat Bogrolls meal and feed him his own pie, for example)
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Why is everyone saying, "Oh, well, that's it for Misty"? I don't think the Mancer Parson is carrying looks anything like her...in fact, it definitely looks like a man to me.

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