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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Did you bother to read what I wrote? I said I was expecting Parson to lose more dwagons. But loss in battle is one thing, wholesale slaughter is another!

    Parson expected to win with almost no effort, or loss. Jillian pulling off a rescue would have been a "fair" boop-up on Parson's part. The trap wasn't tight enough to hold Ansom. The enemy commander got away. The best laid plans of mice and men...

    But that's not what happened. Jillian picked a "lucky flight path" and utterly decimated the A-stack. And Parson should have been able to predict/prevent that from happening. The dwagon slaughter was just gratuitious violence.

    Luck plays a role. But it should not be the sole deciding factor. Parson doesn't have to "win" in the end for this to be a good story. He can die/lose fighting to the last man, even taking up a weapon and using his size to his advantage until the sheer number of Ansom's troops riddle him with arrows. I'm sure a guy like Parson would prefer to fight in the shade.

    But he has to have a chance. The dice were loaded against him. And I call "foul."
    I did. Sounds like semantics to me. Not that I can genuinely recall the casualty report, but 3 Warlords, 2 of whom are undamaged, Gwiffons, Archons, Arkenplier bonus, vs. Weakened to hell Dwagons and the Uncroaked Warlords? As Parson says.. "That was not winnable". You don't know the stats any better then I do, but that sounds like a reasonable 100% win to me.

    As to when he had a chance.. he did. That chance was lost when the Dwagons were found. He had a perfectly legitimate shot at a win before then. It sucks to be Parson that one chance like that can ruin your game, but he did have a fair shot before then.
    Last edited by Rutee; 2007-10-30 at 06:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by PyritePyro View Post
    That word (Decimated) does not mean what you think it means. She anialated them, the casualties were 100% not 10%
    And that word does not mean solely what you think it means, as the destruction of a great proportion of something is also one of its meanings. And I'm quite certain that 100% is a great proportion
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    well very few know of decimation in the roman army terms anymore.
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    well very few know of decimation in the roman army terms anymore.
    Just a fill in - decimation for a legion was where when a group of soldiers acted cowardly in battle, every 10th one was killed as an example.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Given Parson's relationship with Wanda so far, how sure of herself and forceful she is, and Stanley usually taking seriously what she has to say Parson did the natural thing and took Wanda at her word. Wanda didn't say there was a good chance that Jillian wouldn't attack, she was absolutely certain. Given the circumstances and the information available to him I think Parson did the logical thing. I don't blame him for the defeat at all.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Targan View Post
    Given Parson's relationship with Wanda so far, how sure of herself and forceful she is, and Stanley usually taking seriously what she has to say Parson did the natural thing and took Wanda at her word. Wanda didn't say there was a good chance that Jillian wouldn't attack, she was absolutely certain. Given the circumstances and the information available to him I think Parson did the logical thing. I don't blame him for the defeat at all.
    No, Parson wasn't confident in the spell. Not at all.
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html

    That's why I started the whole Strategery vs. Dumb Luck thread. Parson doesn't depend on Luck, or Magic he doesn't fully understand. And rightly so. He depends on strategy, and his own ability to think his way through a problem. Wanda was betting on her spell, and Jillian's love for her and their relationship.

    Parson doesn't strike me as the kind to depend on something as flimsy as a personal relationship when everybody's life is on the line.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    No, Parson wasn't confident in the spell. Not at all.
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html
    "But it feels like I'm counting on that a little too much at this point."

    Sounds like he was counting on it when devising and implementing his plan, and is now having belated second thoughts.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Targan View Post
    Given Parson's relationship with Wanda so far, how sure of herself and forceful she is, and Stanley usually taking seriously what she has to say Parson did the natural thing and took Wanda at her word. Wanda didn't say there was a good chance that Jillian wouldn't attack, she was absolutely certain. Given the circumstances and the information available to him I think Parson did the logical thing. I don't blame him for the defeat at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    No, Parson wasn't confident in the spell. Not at all.
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html

    That's why I started the whole Strategery vs. Dumb Luck thread. Parson doesn't depend on Luck, or Magic he doesn't fully understand. And rightly so. He depends on strategy, and his own ability to think his way through a problem. Wanda was betting on her spell, and Jillian's love for her and their relationship.

    Parson doesn't strike me as the kind to depend on something as flimsy as a personal relationship when everybody's life is on the line.
    you know, Targan has a really good point. Parson doesn't express any doubts until AFTER Jillian starts the hunt. Parson trusted the spell until he had a reason to doubt it.

    As far as I'm concerned, that's the nail in the coffin to the whole 'Parson should have known where Jillian was going to go' idea.
    1) he trusted the spell until it was too late, probably thinking it was more like Dominate Person, than Suggestion.
    2) Even if he had know, he couldn't have but the dwagons out of range and still have them do enough damage to the siege to take it all out in 2 turns (which was a time limit based on how long it would take Ansom's air forces to get back in sufficient numbers to defend the siege)
    3) He put the A dwagons in the most defensible spot possible, just in case. He couldn't have known that Jillian (or any other subset of Ansom's air forces) would choose that particular flight path. He didn't know that Ansom wouldn't use his ground forces to search for the dwagons, so he put them where the ground forces couldn't get to them, and only a small portion of the air forces could reach.
    4) If all that failed (which it did), Parson was ready to sacrifice the A dwagons to take out Ansom.

    I see a strong plan here, including contingencies leading to two beneficial outcomes (croak the siege or croak Ansom). So tell me, what else could he have done? If he moved the dwagons off of the lake, they are vulnerable to land units, and just as likely to be found by the air units.

    EDIT: uh yeah, what SteveMB said. curse my slow post-typing!
    Last edited by fendrin; 2007-10-31 at 10:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    you know, Targan has a really good point. Parson doesn't express any doubts until AFTER Jillian starts the hunt. Parson trusted the spell until he had a reason to doubt it.

    <snip>

    </snip>
    I see a strong plan here, including contingencies leading to two beneficial outcomes (croak the siege or croak Ansom). So tell me, what else could he have done? If he moved the dwagons off of the lake, they are vulnerable to land units, and just as likely to be found by the air units.

    EDIT: uh yeah, what SteveMB said. curse my slow post-typing!
    I liked Parson's plan as well, that's why I was so annoyed when it unraveled so throroughly! But ground units don't have the range of air units. For a flying unit to have a range near 56 or 22, a ground unit sould have a range of 5-7 for "fast" units and 3-5 for "slow" units. Assuming the Woodsy Elves to be fast units and Gumps to be slow, Parson could have hidden the A-dwagons in the woods near the lake. Not over the lake, and slightly further "away" from the Donut of Doom. Ansom used the bats (as Parson predicted) for the search, so as not to waste the other unit's move points on a search effort.

    Once Ansom fell for the "con" that was the Donut of Doom, Ansom's boops were in a vice that would be very expensive for him to escape. Either he loses a bunch of bats (primary scouting units), or he loses the troops he took with him, AND the confidence of his remaining troops, if and when he returns.

    Jillian coming to the rescue would have reduced that cost by an appreciable margin, but now? "All hail the Conquering Heroes! Hurray for Ansom the Handsome! Hurray for Princess Jillain! Hurray for Count Doombats! They crushed the enemy's main weapon with only the loss of seven bats and a gwiffin!"

    Cheese. Pure cheese.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    But ground units don't have the range of air units. For a flying unit to have a range near 56 or 22, a ground unit sould have a range of 5-7 for "fast" units and 3-5 for "slow" units.
    Wow that is a HUGE assumption. My favorite TBS games were the old Warlords series, which had some pretty fast land units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Once Ansom fell for the "con" that was the Donut of Doom, Ansom's boops were in a vice that would be very expensive for him to escape. Either he loses a bunch of bats (primary scouting units), or he loses the troops he took with him, AND the confidence of his remaining troops, if and when he returns.
    More importantly, fleeing back to the column meant the dwagons would destroy the rest of the siege. Ansom was willing to risk his and Vinny's lives to save the siege, but not Jillian's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Jillian coming to the rescue would have reduced that cost by an appreciable margin, but now? "All hail the Conquering Heroes! Hurray for Ansom the Handsome! Hurray for Princess Jillain! Hurray for Count Doombats! They crushed the enemy's main weapon with only the loss of seven bats and a gwiffin!"
    you are assumuing Ansom and co. will make it back to the column. That has yet to be determined. [and a nitpick: they lost 3 gwiffons]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Cheese. Pure cheese.
    Cheddar? Provolone? Gouda? Brie? YUM!
    Last edited by fendrin; 2007-10-31 at 12:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    I liked Parson's plan as well, that's why I was so annoyed when it unraveled so throroughly! But ground units don't have the range of air units. For a flying unit to have a range near 56 or 22, a ground unit sould have a range of 5-7 for "fast" units and 3-5 for "slow" units.
    While it's reasonable to assume that air units are faster than ground units, a difference of nearly a whole order of magnitude is too extreme. In fact, we have evidence that ground units aren't that slow -- Webinar only took a couple of turns to find Jillian (at a location that had to be close enough to GK to be plausible for somebody who really had escaped and travelled on foot).

    Assuming the Woodsy Elves to be fast units and Gumps to be slow, Parson could have hidden the A-dwagons in the woods near the lake. Not over the lake, and slightly further "away" from the Donut of Doom. Ansom used the bats (as Parson predicted) for the search, so as not to waste the other unit's move points on a search effort.
    Why on Erf would he choose to put the dwagons where they could be attacked by air units and ground units if they were discovered? (Putting them far enough away to guarantee non-discovery was almost certainly not an option. They had to hit enough targets to take out Ansom's siege train in two turns, which limits the amount of move they could reserve for their final retreat to their hiding place. Note that Parson's original plan repeatedly references the issue of the dwagons being able to reach all their targets; the revised version of the plan did not differ in that regard.)

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Ansom was willing to risk his and Vinny's lives to save the siege, but not Jillian's.
    Huh? He did send Jillian on the hunt, which wasn't exactly a safe undertaking (and, in fact, she did nearly get croaked).
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-10-31 at 12:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Huh? He did send Jillian on the hunt, which wasn't exactly a safe undertaking (and, in fact, she did nearly get croaked).
    Ok, well, after her Think-o-gram he wasn't willing to risk her life

    Seriously though, one has to wonder why Ansom didn't join in the hunt himself, or at least send out his remaining bats. I'm guessing he was saving his move and bats for one of two things:

    1) If the Jillian's hunt succeeded, he can join in the fight if he has sufficient move remaining. the less he moves around before hand, the better chance he has of being able to make it to the fight.

    2a) If The hunt failed, he needed the bats (and his few remaining move) to make it back to the column. True, he would end up losing his siege, but better that than losing the siege and his life.

    Alternately,

    2b) If Jillian's hunt failed, he could have gone searching himself.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Ok, well, after her Think-o-gram he wasn't willing to risk her life

    Seriously though, one has to wonder why Ansom didn't join in the hunt himself, or at least send out his remaining bats. I'm guessing he was saving his move and bats for one of two things:

    1) If the Jillian's hunt succeeded, he can join in the fight if he has sufficient move remaining. the less he moves around before hand, the better chance he has of being able to make it to the fight.

    2a) If The hunt failed, he needed the bats (and his few remaining move) to make it back to the column. True, he would end up losing his siege, but better that than losing the siege and his life.

    Alternately,

    2b) If Jillian's hunt failed, he could have gone searching himself.
    The reason why Ansom didn't go on the hunt personally is pretty easy: He didn't have the move left to conduct a proper search himself, and leaving the forest units to the mercy of the B-dwagons with no real chance of gaining an advantage wasn't an acceptable option to him.

    As for the bats...I think your 2a is the answer.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The reason why Ansom didn't go on the hunt personally is pretty easy: He didn't have the move left to conduct a proper search himself, and leaving the forest units to the mercy of the B-dwagons with no real chance of gaining an advantage wasn't an acceptable option to him.

    As for the bats...I think your 2a is the answer.
    While I don't disagree with you on the facts, I interpret their significance differently. I think that Ansom's primary motivation for waiting was to be able to assist Jillian (if possible), not to avoid abandoning the forest units. As Vinny said, they are a much less tempting target without Ansom there.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    While I don't disagree with you on the facts, I interpret their significance differently. I think that Ansom's primary motivation for waiting was to be able to assist Jillian (if possible), not to avoid abandoning the forest units. As Vinny said, they are a much less tempting target without Ansom there.
    The two happen to coincide: Abandoning the forest units would also hinder Ansom's possibility to assist Jillian. And crushing the A-dwagons and their warlords would increase the survivability of the forest units and the column in general, as well as Jillian's.

    As long as Ansom's personal and pragmatic options coincide, I don't think he'd consciously consider which is his "primary" motivation. It's equally difficult to tell which is his primary motivation, as he didn't have to choose one over the other.
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2007-10-31 at 03:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Wender View Post
    We may have a foreshadowing in the Archons breaking the spell on Jillian, although I suspect the one on Parson will require a lot more mojo, which someone will have to pay for.
    Or a Wanda, Sizemore, Thinkamancer link doing it for "free".

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    Thumbs up Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelon View Post
    This is booping hard core

    I wonder, is that Misty dead or the other guy?

    I think the Hamstard is finally fully emotionally involved, and now he has a chance to raise from the run-off-the-mill nerd tourist to a true protagonist (neither saying hero nor leader here on purpuse). The possibilities are countless and very exciting.

    The last comic (82) was already very good, now it's getting even better. After a few not so dramatic strips (personal opinion only, maybe from global storyline perspective taking a second breath before the real final IS a good thing) I have a feeling like during the quantum dwagon donut of doom hex fort trap: something great is happening!

    so pretty, pretty, please ... gimme more updates! it's close to X-mas (well sort of)

    I'm really hooked again. Great work Titans!
    I'd agree. Glad I kept reading.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    None of the people who are calling Parson stupid now were saying it back when his plan was being executed.
    Did they have a crucial part of the complaint (the exact location where he placed the wounded dwagons) at that time?

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    wink Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    I don't think that Stanley has left the city. I don't think there were any dragons. There was a foolamancer and that's it.

    Stanley is hiding in the extensive tunnels beneath the Gobwyn Knob.

    "We all float down here".
    Last edited by Harmandil; 2007-11-02 at 03:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmandil View Post
    I don't think that Stanley has left the city. I don't think there were any dragons. There was a foolamancer and that's it.

    Stanley is hiding in the extensive tunnels beneath the Gobwyn Knob.
    Possible, but why?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post
    Possible, but why?
    There are lots of reasons why, the most obvious being to ambush the now-even-more-complacent coalition when they arrive, thinking GK essentially deserted.

    Now, if the question is, "Why deceive your own troops about leaving, rather than jsut the enemy," I start to run out of answers. Perhaps Stanley has become convinced that Parson, Wanda, or Sizemore really has betrayed him, and he thinks that person is in communication with Ansom?

    It's a WAG, though....

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Occasional Sage View Post
    There are lots of reasons why, the most obvious being to ambush the now-even-more-complacent coalition when they arrive, thinking GK essentially deserted.

    Now, if the question is, "Why deceive your own troops about leaving, rather than jsut the enemy," I start to run out of answers. Perhaps Stanley has become convinced that Parson, Wanda, or Sizemore really has betrayed him, and he thinks that person is in communication with Ansom?

    It's a WAG, though....
    No. While he he admits that as a possibility, his mind is set on following what he believes to be the will of the Titans. The Titans have told him that he must act alone, and so Wanda, Sizemore and Parson will not fit into his plans. If he truly believed that they had betrayed him then he would have simply disbanded them, or worse.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky_Schemer View Post
    What's so maddening about your posts is that you speak as if you have a copy of the map on your desk and know exactly where all the units are located. You speak in such absolutes, and yet, really, none of us know much more than the tiny tiny snippets of maps that we've seen. Everything else is supposition.
    Actually, I've felt that I made it clear that I didn't know where the units are, but that I was making my best guesses, based on the information presented.

    Ansom is heading towards Gobwin Knob with a column of assorted forces. That was seen on both Ansom's map, and the Battle Table at GK. They are either heading east to west, or west to east. (True, they could be heading in nearly any direction, but for sake of clarity, let's stick with east to west.)

    Gobwin Knob is to the West, which would put Webinar and Dora to the furthest west position of the column. Makes sense, Dora (the Explorer) and Webinar are scouts and Ranger type units. If Jillian were to escape GK, she would head east, back towards the column and her allies, meaning the first person/unit she would encounter would be Webinar and Co. Since Ansom is expecting trouble, he would want to put a couple of heavy hitter mercenary units near the front as well, hence the Archons.

    Since the Siege Engines move slowly (assumed, but heavy siege units are usually slow movers in hex-type TBS games), it's logical that the siege engines are staggered throughout the column. Parson would have to stake the A's and the Donut of Doom somewhere near the middle or near the front and south of the column to make his raids. This would put them far east of Jillian's point of entry after her "escape."

    Jillian's search, then run for Ansom could only have her stumble across the dwagons if somehow she ended up due south of the wounded column, or PAST the dwagons and coming back.

    I dug out some of my hex map games and set up things in the most "logical" way Ansom would be deployed, based on the maps shown so far, and that's how I came to my conclusions. I'm making a lot of assumptions, but none that are radically "Over the Top" in regards to movement rates, etc.

    Unless there is a major turn south in the column (could be, a mountain ridge could be just north and east of GK, running east/west as well, but it has never been shown), Jillian should have arrived at the column within one or two hexes "above"(north) or "below"(south) the main column, and began her hunt/search by heading back "parallel" and south of the column. Which means she should have encountered the Donut of Doom BEFORE finding the wounded A's.

    Ansom gave Jillian his position in his "Detailed" Thinkagram, which told Jillian that Ansom was also south of the column. But Ansom had no clue where the A's were, and would not have directed Jillian to travel so far south that when she returned, she would shoot up north, and straight through the wounded stack. Ansom knew that the wounded had only so much range, and would not risk not finding them by looking too far south.

    Parson could have either moved the A's furher east, and off of the lake, OR moved the Donut of Doom WEST one hex. Vinny's bats spot the DoD, Ansom charges in, Jillian comes to the rescue.



    And in response to Jasdoif, yes, I keep reading, hoping that I'm totally wrong, and that there was a real reason for the slaughter.

    When Rich first posted Erfworld, I thought to myself, "Giant Elvises? Sounds stoopid." But after the story got rolling, I read a few, then went back to the beginning and started reading the entire story. And it remained quite good, up until luck overrode skill and planning.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    HalfOrc I agree completely...

    No one likes to watch complete pwnings. It's uninspiring. You could kind of consider the comic to be based around a particular session of a strategy game, and instead of an epic contest, it turns out to be some lopsided affair. Why is that interesting. Why is that a story worth telling and hearing. Why not tell a story about a session that was actually a good matchup, I wonder. If this strip isn't written for gamers then who's it written for, and what gamer is going to be interested in some blowout. It's almost like the strip lost its nerve and couldn't bear to have the quote/unquote good guys getting beat back. Lost its will to be different or something, got suddenly scared of the height it had climbed to and came back down into the realm of the cliche. (Now maybe starting to morph Parson into some stock good character? Bleh...) Ansom should have lost something from getting fooled like that, and not because of some lightning-strikes type of thing that I suppose could still be pending. His being able to turn that bad misstep into such a huge win for him was a very bad choice imo. Why are any of us still griping about that? Because it was so cool for awhile. It's like getting mad when your favorite sports team trades away their best player for some no-account in return, yes it was their decision to make but you still feel invested in it as a fan.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    HalfOrc I agree completely...

    No one likes to watch complete pwnings. It's uninspiring. You could kind of consider the comic to be based around a particular session of a strategy game, and instead of an epic contest, it turns out to be some lopsided affair. Why is that interesting. Why is that a story worth telling and hearing. Why not tell a story about a session that was actually a good matchup, I wonder. If this strip isn't written for gamers then who's it written for, and what gamer is going to be interested in some blowout. It's almost like the strip lost its nerve and couldn't bear to have the quote/unquote good guys getting beat back. Lost its will to be different or something, got suddenly scared of the height it had climbed to and came back down into the realm of the cliche. (Now maybe starting to morph Parson into some stock good character? Bleh...) Ansom should have lost something from getting fooled like that, and not because of some lightning-strikes type of thing that I suppose could still be pending. His being able to turn that bad misstep into such a huge win for him was a very bad choice imo. Why are any of us still griping about that? Because it was so cool for awhile. It's like getting mad when your favorite sports team trades away their best player for some no-account in return, yes it was their decision to make but you still feel invested in it as a fan.
    Ansom avoided getting owned in force because the Tool canceled Parson's plan. And Misty died. And the dwagons were recalled. All of that together screwed any normal chance for him to make a serious dent in Ansom's forces. And everything he was doing was anything an intelligent, experienced gamer would have done. But now he has gone from possibly ending the war to being right back where Gobwin Knob was before he arrived: up Boop Creek without a paddle.

    This is where he will have to actually have to get creative. This is where even your best players will hang it up and resign the game. Parson is now blind and has no command-control-coordination. His forces are out-numbered and demoralized. His most useful units are gone, his best caster is catatonic and his best counselor is in despair. His life is in danger and he is adrift in an alien world with resources he barely understands and which do not seem particularly useful at the moment. What is he going to possibly be able to do? I can't wait to find out.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Ansom gave Jillian his position in his "Detailed" Thinkagram, which told Jillian that Ansom was also south of the column. But Ansom had no clue where the A's were, and would not have directed Jillian to travel so far south that when she returned, she would shoot up north, and straight through the wounded stack. Ansom knew that the wounded had only so much range, and would not risk not finding them by looking too far south.
    Ansom did have one major clue where the wounded dwagons were. He knew that they were not in any of the hexes his units had already explored (the ones with known terrain in his map), and were necessarily in one of the unexplored hexes (indicated on the map as white "fog of war"). Ergo, he presumably sent Jillian far enough south to run a search pattern directed toward the hexes that were far enough away to be in the "fog of war" area, but close enough to be plausibly within reach for the wounded dwagons. From that area, her change of plans (from "performing the search" to "riding in to rescue the Fair Prince") would require her to "shoot up north".

  27. - Top - End - #237
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Ansom did have one major clue where the wounded dwagons were. He knew that they were not in any of the hexes his units had already explored (the ones with known terrain in his map), and were necessarily in one of the unexplored hexes (indicated on the map as white "fog of war"). Ergo, he presumably sent Jillian far enough south to run a search pattern directed toward the hexes that were far enough away to be in the "fog of war" area, but close enough to be plausibly within reach for the wounded dwagons. From that area, her change of plans (from "performing the search" to "riding in to rescue the Fair Prince") would require her to "shoot up north".
    . . isn't this about the fifteenth time I have seen this explained?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Arssanguinus View Post
    Originally Posted by SteveMB
    Ansom did have one major clue where the wounded dwagons were. He knew that they were not in any of the hexes his units had already explored (the ones with known terrain in his map), and were necessarily in one of the unexplored hexes (indicated on the map as white "fog of war"). Ergo, he presumably sent Jillian far enough south to run a search pattern directed toward the hexes that were far enough away to be in the "fog of war" area, but close enough to be plausibly within reach for the wounded dwagons. From that area, her change of plans (from "performing the search" to "riding in to rescue the Fair Prince") would require her to "shoot up north".
    isn't this about the fifteenth time I have seen this explained?
    Yes. And for the fiftheenth PLUS time, everyone ignores that had Parson shifted either the wounded A's EAST one hex, or the entire Donut of Doom WEST one hex, Jillian never would have found them. Moving the DoD west one or two hexes would have left the wounded A's over the lake, and out of range of forest capable units.

    Leaving the A-dwagons where Jillian could find them BEFORE finding the healthy stacks is a pure NOOB mistake. One Parson is not likely to make.

    A good fight is an enjoyable thing to watch. A shellacking is a boring thing to watch. Guess what losing 19 A-dwagons, three Warlords, and three B-dwagons to six bats, a squad of eight woodsy elves, and at most three gwiffins?
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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Yes. And for the fiftheenth PLUS time, everyone ignores that had Parson shifted either the wounded A's EAST one hex, or the entire Donut of Doom WEST one hex, Jillian never would have found them.
    Knowing that in advance would require Parson to predict Jillian's exact path -- conducting the search until she got to such-and-such a hex, then making a beeline for Ansom. He ain't a Predictamancer, just a strategist.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77

    Quote Originally Posted by Arssanguinus View Post
    . . isn't this about the fifteenth time I have seen this explained?
    One or more people refuse to believe that it was random chance, which causes problems for all strategists. Oh, and seems to be a theme of the comic. Or maybe Vinny's a luckamancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Yes. And for the fiftheenth PLUS time, everyone ignores that had Parson shifted either the wounded A's EAST one hex, or the entire Donut of Doom WEST one hex, Jillian never would have found them. Moving the DoD west one or two hexes would have left the wounded A's over the lake, and out of range of forest capable units.
    Moving the Ring a hex or two west
    1) would have taken them out of the forest, which
    2) would have left them exposed to major counter-attack which
    3) would have allowed Ansom to find out that the A-dwags weren't in the middle without using up so much move which
    4) would have let him spend more move on finding the A-dwagons... He may not even have had to rely on the crap shoot that was the Hunt.
    And that sounds like a good idea to you?

    Think your strategies through before you suggest they would be better than Parsons! You just made a "pure NOOB mistake" (in your own words... personally, I despise the term NOOB).


    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    A good fight is an enjoyable thing to watch. A shellacking is a boring thing to watch. Guess what losing 19 A-dwagons, three Warlords, and three B-dwagons to six bats, a squad of eight woodsy elves, and at most three gwiffins?
    I absolutely agree with you. But remember the old (and incredibly appropriate) saying: Its always darkest just before dawn.

    And guess what time it is in Erfworld?
    Last edited by fendrin; 2007-11-03 at 09:34 AM.

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