Class and Level Geekery III (some [spoiler]s)

[Chrismith]

Sounds like a plan.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateRope.htm



It's definitely possible that Pompey said "uncoil" under his gag (Roy was giving a huge speech at the time and not paying attention).

[snip]

If Pompey cast Animate Rope offscreen, then that should account for all of his spells in the battle.

Except that we actually see Pompey casting the spell in the comic, while Roy is standing right there.

Also, according to the SRD (emphasis mine):

A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell).

So Pompey can't just whisper the verbal component or mumble it under his breath. And we would see in the comic if he said something aloud.

[Wrecan]

Elan just go himself an eyepatch!

[Porthos]

Except that we actually see Pompey casting the spell in the comic, while Roy is standing right there..

The problem I have with that is making Pompey 5th or 6th level just makes him too powerful to be at an apprentice school, even one that is "one of the most gifted" students. Besides, as you noted, why didn't he cast Summon Monster III?

However, if we interject a bit of artistic license, then the glow we see could just be Pompey directing the spell, as noted above. After all, we still see a magical glow around Pompey when he is standing at the end of #342, and he wasn't casting a spell there. It wouldn't be the first time that Rich has had a Magical Glow Affect without a corresponding spell.

Also, it starts to stretch disbelief that spells with durations of 5 or so minutes would have expire during the battle. I have enough trouble with 4 minutes duration. I guess what I am saying is that if we can make a reasonable case for Pompey being 4th level, I'd rather take that than presume he was 5th. Simply because 5th level just feels to high for me.

But I'm not going to argue that strenuously on this point.

[Chrismith]

The problem I have with that is making Pompey 5th or 6th level just makes him too powerful to be at an apprentice school, even one that is "one of the most gifted" students. Besides, as you noted, why didn't he cast Summon Monster III?

However, if we interject a bit of artistic license, then the glow we see could just be Pompey directing the spell, as noted above. After all, we still see a magical glow around Pompey when he is standing at the end of #342, and he wasn't casting a spell there. It wouldn't be the first time that Rich has had a Magical Glow Affect without a corresponding spell.

Also, it starts to stretch disbelief that spells with durations of 5 or so minutes would have expire during the battle. I have enough trouble with 4 minutes duration. I guess what I am saying is that if we can make a reasonable case for Pompey being 4th level, I'd rather take that than presume he was 5th. Simply because 5th level just feels to high for me.

But I'm not going to argue that strenuously on this point.

I thought about it a bit, and while I think that he's actually casting the spell on-screen, it is pretty ambiguous. The evidence isn't really conclusive, and having it just be a level 1 Animate Rope fits nicely, meaning that he used all of his spells in the battle. For now, I've changed his level back to 4+.

[RMS Oceanic]

...aaaand there goes Elan's Eyepatch. Durkon still needs his stole added. Note that it's the same colour as the robes he wore in #305, so I think it's just part of his ceremonial ritual kit.

[Wrecan]

Eyepatch removed (from Elan and the list), Durkon's vestments added!

[Kimpire]

I wouldn't necessarily remove the eyepatch from his positions.... yes, Hinjo took it off him by force, but we don't necessarily know that he'd keep it away from Elan.

For all we know it'd be exactly like the belt of gender-changing, and it'll sit around in Elan's pocket for the next 200 strips until suddenly it makes a surprise return.

[Vargtass]

Lithe but well-muscled body seems to indicate higher than average strength and dexterity on Elan's part, and Therkla's noticing this (and the other things she said) points to the high Charisma score (which was already known). Which skill is used for seduction? Perhaps ranks in that skill can also be implied?


... no solid evidence though...

[RMS Oceanic]

I know it makes sense with his fighting with a rapier and all, but where does it say that Elan has Weapon Finesse?

[Vargtass]

I know it makes sense with his fighting with a rapier and all, but where does it say that Elan has Weapon Finesse?

I think perhaps this old gem has been used as an indication. I can't remember a direct reference.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm not so sure Elan has high strength. The main selling point of the Dashing Swordsman was that it would add his cha modifier to weapon damage, and there'd be no point in doing that if his str modifier was already high. DS appears to make a big difference in Elan's skill, so he couldn't just have, say, str 16 cha 18, because that'd only be a +1 difference.

[Vargtass]

I'm not so sure Elan has high strength. The main selling point of the Dashing Swordsman was that it would add his cha modifier to weapon damage, and there'd be no point in doing that if his str modifier was already high. DS appears to make a big difference in Elan's skill, so he couldn't just have, say, str 16 cha 18, because that'd only be a +1 difference.

Based on "well-muscled body" I would suggest updating Elan's strength to <10 insted of ~10. Dex is listed as minimum 14, from Weapon finesse and tumbling. It makes no sense to have Weapon finesse if Strength is as high, and the choice of Dashing swordsman indeed indicates that Charisma is considerably higher than either Strength or Dexterity. From this it can be concluded that Elan's stats follow: STR<DEX<CHA, and a fair guess would place the stats at STR: 11-14, DEX: 14-16, and CHA: 18+ (I suspect more like 20-21).

[Wrecan]

I wouldn't necessarily remove the eyepatch from his positions.

Last we saw, the eyepatch was not in Elan's possession. SO it's not on his list of possession until we see differently.

Which skill is used for seduction? Perhaps ranks in that skill can also be implied?

Diplomacy is the skill, but it can only be used actively. All this tells us is Elan has a high Charisma, which we already knew.

I know it makes sense with his fighting with a rapier and all, but where does it say that Elan has Weapon Finesse?

A bard with a rapier and no Weapon Finesse is like a druid without Natural Spell. Even Elan isn't that foolish.

From this it can be concluded that Elan's stats follow: STR<DEX<CHA, and a fair guess would place the stats at STR: 11-14, DEX: 14-16, and CHA: 18+ (I suspect more like 20-21).

That is a fair guess, but I'll need more before I make a change to his entry.

[Amon Star]

A bard with a rapier and no Weapon Finesse is like a druid without Natural Spell. Even Elan isn't that foolish.

That's debatable. This IS we're talking about.

[Wrecan]

That's debatable. This IS we're talking about.

Even creatures with non-ability in Intelligence are smart enough to get Weapon Finesse! If Elan had Animal Int, he'd get Weapon Finesse as a Bonus Feat!

[wojonatior]

elan's cha should be higher beacuse his new class and his bard class are both cha based and he probaly some how increased his cha(like at lv 12) also haley probably said yeah durkon you can store your golden tankard in one of my bags of holding then sold it

[Vargtass]

The tankard would not fit ino the bag's opening, so no.

[Wrecan]

elan's cha should be higher

That's why I use the "greater than or equal symbol"

haley probably said yeah durkon you can store your golden tankard in one of my bags of holding then sold it

When we see Haley pull out the tankard, it goes on her list. Not before.

[Jasdoif]

When we see Haley pull out the tankard, it goes on her list. Not before.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the accumulated treasure was destroyed, or at the very least trapped in some now-inaccessible extraplanar locale. No treasure that hasn't been seen since then can be assumed to be in anyone's possession, much less Haley's.

[Zone]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0092.html

Here Roy's running slower than others while carrying Durkon. Does it mean that he can run, like, 40 feet while others can run 60 feet? Even Belkar is quicker than Roy.

[Chronos]

Only mundane bags were destroyed in the explosion. We know that Haley at some point had 8 Bags of Holding, and we know that as of when she set out to recover Roy's corpse, she still had more than one (since she says she can put the corpse in "one of my bags of holding"). The logical inference from that is that she keeps her Bags of Holding on her person, and so would have kept all 8 of them. Meanwhile, at the time of the inn explosion, all of her Bags of Holding were full, hence why she can only lug one heavy mundane bag at a time. So the Order (or more precisely, Haley) still has a great deal of treasure (even the smallest Bag of Holding has quite a large capacity).

[Kurald Galain]

Here Roy's running slower than others while carrying Durkon. Does it mean that he can run, like, 40 feet while others can run 60 feet? Even Belkar is quicker than Roy.

Roy's speed is reduced because he's wearing medium armor, yes.

[Jasdoif]

Only mundane bags were destroyed in the explosion. We know that Haley at some point had 8 Bags of Holding, and we know that as of when she set out to recover Roy's corpse, she still had more than one (since she says she can put the corpse in "one of my bags of holding"). The logical inference from that is that she keeps her Bags of Holding on her person, and so would have kept all 8 of them. Meanwhile, at the time of the inn explosion, all of her Bags of Holding were full, hence why she can only lug one heavy mundane bag at a time. So the Order (or more precisely, Haley) still has a great deal of treasure (even the smallest Bag of Holding has quite a large capacity).

A fair line of reasoning...however, the point remains that a lot of treasure was destroyed in the explosion. Haley was carrying the carts used to haul the treasure in her bags of holding, and given Haley's love for treasure I would have to assume the space they occupied was already filled with treasure, prior to loading up the carts.

So whatever was in the carts would have to be stored in the inn. Or more, if Haley swapped out the stored treasure for the carts. Either way, the survivability of any particular treasure item is questionable if it hasn't been seen since the explosion.

[Kreistor]

So whatever was in the carts would have to be stored in the inn. Or more, if Haley swapped out the stored treasure for the carts. Either way, the survivability of any particular treasure item is questionable if it hasn't been seen since the explosion.

Only mundane items which the characters never treated as personally important. It is not reasonable to think that useful magical items of any sort were kept in the relatively unsecure bags separated from the characters in this way. In fact, there is no reason for anything on any character to have been moved to these bags, instead of being kept in their normal location.

In short, it is only reasonable to assume the destroyed treasure was purely monetary in value, and not substantially important to the characters.

[Jasdoif]

Only mundane items which the characters never treated as personally important. It is not reasonable to think that useful magical items of any sort were kept in the relatively unsecure bags separated from the characters in this way. In fact, there is no reason for anything on any character to have been moved to these bags, instead of being kept in their normal location.

In short, it is only reasonable to assume the destroyed treasure was purely monetary in value, and not substantially important to the characters.

Oh, I agree entirely; it stops being "treasure" to me if it has better use then monetary worth.

I'm pretty sure the gold tankard that started this chain of posts was purely monetary in value, if not simply a one-shot gag.

[Chronos]

Assuming that they kept the tankard for long enough to matter, and assuming that they had some extradimensional space they could store it in, they probably would have, just because that's a rather unwieldly item to carry around. A pile of coins, you can split up into a half-dozen different mundane bags, but you can't do that with a big single object. But that tankard is unimportant enough that I don't think we need to worry about it specifically, unless it turns up again. Until then, it can just be included in the catch-all "treasure", and may or may not have been in the portion of the treasure that was destroyed.

[MCerberus]

I still really don't see any HARD evidence for Durkon's Extra Turning feat. The standard amount that a cleric without the feat can turn without a CHA bonus is 3. We haven't seen him turn more than 3 per day.

[Wrecan]

It is likely that Durkon has a negative Charisma, in which case he would need Extra Turning in order to turn undead three times a day.

[PsyBlade]

I don't think he has a negative charisma. He did manage to get laid. Not much proof of that though.

[Mr Wizard]

I don't think he has a negative charisma. He did manage to get laid. Not much proof of that though.

So did Eugene.