Erfworld 84: Parson's Klog Page 7

[Surfing HalfOrc]

As I've been saying, all Sizemore has to do is find some way to trap them long enough to fill the chamber with water or something. One hopes that he's already planned just such a thing.

The Marbits might be good at digging, but I doubt they can dig faster than a collapsing tunnel.

I just had a really evil though about that, considering Sizemore's "regular Duties."

Eeeewwww!!!!

Think about it, it will come. There ARE worse things than drowning. At least drowning in water.

[fendrin]

That depends on when Sizemore started digging tunnels. He seems low-middle aged, say 35 or so. But if he discovered his "power" at a young age, he could have been digging tunnels for years.

Units pop fully formed, so we have no idea how old anyone is. Sizemore could have been popped mere turns before the Manpower croaked, or he could be several million turns old. We really don't know. However, we know there is a maze of tunnels, and that Sizemore has been making 'modifications'.

I'm more worried about how Parson is going to keep Jillian and the rest from raining death down on him. He doesn't have much in the way of surface to air defenses, and turtling up under a bunch of shields only works as long as you're standing still.

Gwiffins, the carpet, orlys, bats. Plus Ansom battering down the walls with the siege engines.

I like the idea of a Sizemore/Maggie/Wanda trio 'growing' the caldera into a dome. Flyers completely neutralized. Take out the road (like weaken it so that it will collapse into a 1000' ravine when under load) and the tunnels become the only entry point.

Undermining the road might slow down the siege engines, but no tunnel will stop a flying unit. And even if my theory that Gobwin Knob is where dwagons "pop," one dwagon may or may not be able to swing the tide of battle.

I'm also not too impressed with Ansom's air forces, keeping in mind that he won't be with them. Jillian and a flight of orlies were taken out by a handful of dwagons. One good bop from a golem should take down Jillian, leaving a leaderless stack that will lose too many forces through attrition to be an effective threat. Assuming of course that GK doesn't pull a skydome on us. I'd like to see a gwiffon try to fly through the tunnels. Ha!

I thought you were talking about turning the road and the city (not the underground) into a huge set of trenches and pits.

well, dropping the road out from under some units would be the best thing to do, but failing that, just get rid of the road altogether, make the boopers climb the mountain the hard way.

It looked like the only thing Sizemore did in GK was to take crap.

He did more than that. "City defenses really important I think. Gobwin Knob seems as tough as Tool claims. Ansom plans feint through tunnels, but might have to come in that way anyway. Force him to? Sizemore built our defenses and dug a lot of the tunnels, says he has some tricks to slow them down. Gotta talk to him more."

They can also do hit and run tactics inside the walls. Parson has shown the way.

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Send Ansom, Vinny, Jillian, Webinar Dora and Tarfu on gwiffons +archons. Drop the warlords and archons near regular infantry, except Dora which stays with gwiffons, and waste units until warlords are heavily wounded, then ride again on gwiffons back into security. If it's too expensive to keep the archons, Ansom has other warlords. Even with Wanda uncroaking the dead, regular units in the outer walls could be gone in a couple of turns.

First off, unless there is a major change to the plan, only Jillian will be with the air assault team. Second, in the face of such an attack, Parson could simply have everyone withdraw to the tunnels. I still expect something cool with the walls, though.

I feel cheated, I had expectations for a mighty battle in the outer walls. With these numbers Ansom will reach the inner citadel very fast. Ok, I know, there will be something awesome, but...

I don't think regular troops can do much against walls. Otherwise, why bother with the siege? You may get more than you think.

As I've been saying, all Sizemore has to do is find some way to trap them long enough to fill the chamber with water or something. One hopes that he's already planned just such a thing.

That works. Or just collapse the tunnel. Why bother with the water? Crushing rocks are just as effective, and in a mountain there's no shortage of them. It's hard to re-set a water trap.

[John Campbell]

Strange, I always thought of Knights at Cavalry, and not Infantry. "Earning your Spurs" and all that. I've always thought "Mounted Cavalry" was a bit redundant.

I'm sure there is a Middle Ages history buff that can list all the unmounted Knight units.

Yeah, knights are (or were, back when the title was actually a martial one) pretty much cavalry by definition. English is the only language I'm even vaguely familiar with where the word for "knight" doesn't literally mean "horseman" or "rider". The English word ("cniht", in the original Eald Englisc) originally meant "serving-boy". (The Anglo-Saxons, whose elite fighters were mostly mounted infantry, weren't fond of William the Bastard's cavalry retainers.) The word "cavalry", in fact, comes from the French word for "knight" - "chevalier".

They could and did fight dismounted, though, when the occasion called for it. And since you can have "dismounted cavalry", "mounted cavalry", while generally the assumed case, isn't totally redundant.


(And "chivalry" is just a thug on a horse...)

[teratorn]

First off, unless there is a major change to the plan, only Jillian will be with the air assault team.

That was when they needed Jillian and flyers to protect siege units from dwagons, and when they could not fly inside GK without being attacked by dwagons. Now stacks of flying gwiffons with warlords only need to worry about a few archers. They can use them to carry high level units as part of a surgical attack force.

They can breach the walls from the inside.

Second, in the face of such an attack, Parson could simply have everyone withdraw to the tunnels.

If he loses the tower he's likely to lose upkeep and his units starve/do not heal. Depends on what is defined as holding the city.

[Bongos]

If they collapse the road Ansom can always build a new one (Masada).

I like Gobwins so much more than Marbits, those lil' green buggers have got to be able to defend their homeland, I can't imagine Gobwin Knob being Stanley's place of origin.

[Overdark]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I just had to say it.

Sword Hilt = Lightsaber ?

[Midnight Lurker]

Is surrender a viable strategy here? The Tool has left the building, after all. Parson could offer to join the coalition and the pursuit.

[factotum]

And why should Ansom have any reason to trust him if he DID? Turncoats are not generally highly regarded amongst either the people they betray or the people they join...

[Dragonath]

If Parson get's one Dwagon popped from GK, then he can ride it himself and maybe face Jillian in battle ?

I doubt that Parson and co. have the power to control one Dwagon without Stanley though.

I don't see them getting a Dwagon.

I'm very curious about the sword. I still think Parson will go into battle as well, he has to. He needs every force possible.

By the way, do we still get a regular update for sunday ? Or was the klog serving as this week's update ? I don't hope so, the klog is nice but I'm expecting a page too, to be honest. Well, we'll see, no biggie I guess.

[Shadowdweller]

And why should Ansom have any reason to trust him if he DID? Turncoats are not generally highly regarded amongst either the people they betray or the people they join...

Because he's been summoned regardless of his will and compelled into service upon pain of magical death. Which brings us to the REAL flaw with that idea...

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I certainly hope it turns out that Parson had saved himself by staying in Gobwin Knob, but Stanley's escape was in turn anticipated and he gets ambushed, captured by Jillian, and executed by Ansom.

...Then again, that would mean Ansom gets the Arkenhammer and control over Dwagons, so...maybe not. -.-;;;

Not really, he has to get attuned with it. He hasn't with the pliers, doubt he'll with the hammer.

[SteveMB]

Because he's been summoned regardless of his will and compelled into service upon pain of magical death. Which brings us to the REAL flaw with that idea...

Stanley didn't leave Parson any orders to follow in his absence. Thus, he might be able to surrender (or at least wouldn't be prevented by the spell -- he still might think that his best chance is to try to find some way to win even now).

[docstrange]

My first guess was along the lines of "what weapon is normally just a hilt?"... Lightsabre? Then again, on second thought that feels maybe a bit too obvious.

Well, consider...

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...Parson going to town with the lightlongsword+5, with combat moves not unlike Fat Lightsaber Kid in the youtube video.

I have no doubt that the Artist can draw such a wonderful thing and capture the hilarity of the original!

[fendrin]

That was when they needed Jillian and flyers to protect siege units from dwagons, and when they could not fly inside GK without being attacked by dwagons. Now stacks of flying gwiffons with warlords only need to worry about a few archers. They can use them to carry high level units as part of a surgical attack force.

They can breach the walls from the inside.

True, if the road was taken out they would not need to protect the siege, and dwagons are no longer an issue, but Ansom and co. don't know that.

Assuming Stanley doesn't go croak Ansom, and
assuming Sizemore doesn't seal the caldera, and
assuming Ansom and co. figure out that there are no dwagons (and don't panic over it) then yes, we could see the coalition leaders breaching the walls from the inside (i.e. throwing open the gates).

Of course, with no road, how are the rest of the forces going to get TO the gates?

If he loses the tower he's likely to lose upkeep and his units starve/do not heal. Depends on what is defined as holding the city.

We don't know though. If the tunnels count as part of the city then it becomes a question of who controls a city when contains two waring factions?

I would guess that it would either be a matter of superior numbers or that it would be the current owner so long as the current owner has forces in the city.

[SteveMB]

True, if the road was taken out they would not need to protect the siege, and dwagons are no longer an issue, but Ansom and co. don't know that.

Given that Ansom has no idea of what is going on, I'm waiting to see what he makes of the absence of any new attacks, either on him or on the column, during this turn. If he's learned anything from recent events, he might smell another trap; that might slow him down and buy Parson a bit of time.

[fendrin]

Given that Ansom has no idea of what is going on, I'm waiting to see what he makes of the absence of any new attacks, either on him or on the column, during this turn. If he's learned anything from recent events, he might smell another trap; that might slow him down and buy Parson a bit of time.

I'm still not convinced that Stanley isn't about to attack Ansom for the 'pliers. He might win, too.

Whether or not Stanley wins such an encounter, it would have a significant effect on the GK battle.

If Stanley wins, the coalition may fall apart, or one or more others could step up and hold it together, but who? Webinar would level accusations against Jillian, Vinny doesn't seem motivated enough (though Ansom's death could change that).

If Stanley loses, then why would the coalition bother with GK? Sure, it's a great place to have as your capitol, but only one faction can claim it, and no one of the factions is strong enough to take it on their own. Why would a faction send their units through the meatgrinder of an assault for no reward? after all, Stanley would already be croaked/caputured.

Pure speculation ahead:
You know, it would be somewhat anticlimactic for this chapter, but I think it would be an awesome story overall if King Jetstone ended up being an evil overlord like Stanley, only with two of the Arkentools. Hmm... maybe the Arkenhammer is like an evil artifact, bending it's owner's will to evil. I mean really, once Parson goes through the personal development of becoming a good leader, is he going to be stuck working for 'the bad guys'? Or would he strive to make Erfworld a better place?

[SteveMB]

I'm still not convinced that Stanley isn't about to attack Ansom for the 'pliers. He might win, too.

That still can't be ruled out, but Parson's attitude when he sees the dwagons back at GK ("I... think this war is over") and the fact that he doesn't even mention that possibility leads me to suspect that the recalled dwagons just don't have enough move to do that.

As for one other possibility mentioned here -- if Sizemore can take a chunk out of the road, that raises the question of why that wasn't done in the first place. Perhaps Stanley wouldn't consider it because it would be too difficult to rebuild the road (thus preventing him from getting heavy ground units out of GK to resume his quest).

It might not do all that much good, anyway -- I suppose it would stop the siege towers, but we know that the heavy cloth golems can travel cross-country and were counted as siege units worth targeting in Parson's surgical-strike plan. Thus, it's possible that the surviving cloth golems might be able to breach the walls.

[Dragonath]

I'm most of all eager to know what Stanley will do.

I also predict a duel between Jillian and Wanda ! That will be some awesome art and comics ^^

[SnowballMan]

You know, I've been wondering about something. If Stanley can rebel and kill his old Lord (as Ansom and Vinnie discussed) then couldn't Parson/Sizemore/anyone else who has grown to dislike Stanley just surrender and switch sides? Swear Fielty to Ansom, then Totally destroy Stanley?

(I doubt this will happen, I would just like to know the rules on loyalty. Do you go poof if you betray, or is it a viable option for a warlord whose got left holding the bag?)

I believe Jillian suggested something like that to Wanda while she was captured. So I would say that there is the possibility to switch sides under certain situations.

And yes, I too remember Thundarr the Barbarian but doubt that will be the reference.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Units pop fully formed, so we have no idea how old anyone is. Sizemore could have been popped mere turns before the Manpower croaked, or he could be several million turns old. We really don't know. However, we know there is a maze of tunnels, and that Sizemore has been making 'modifications'.

I like the idea of a Sizemore/Maggie/Wanda trio 'growing' the caldera into a dome. Flyers completely neutralized. Take out the road (like weaken it so that it will collapse into a 1000' ravine when under load) and the tunnels become the only entry point.

I really don't see that happening, since tunneling is quite a bit different than dome building. I'm assuming that Sizemore has set up several traps and dead ends, etc under the fortress, but if he could build up a dome that quickly, I would be quite suprised.

I'm also not too impressed with Ansom's air forces, keeping in mind that he won't be with them. Jillian and a flight of orlies were taken out by a handful of dwagons. One good bop from a golem should take down Jillian, leaving a leaderless stack that will lose too many forces through attrition to be an effective threat. Assuming of course that GK doesn't pull a skydome on us. I'd like to see a gwiffon try to fly through the tunnels. Ha!

The golem or twoll has to get its hands on Jillian first, which would require her to come low enough to the ground for that to happen. I'm figuring about the same odds as Xykon arriving in Celestia and allowing Roy to make unarmed attacks against him!

well, dropping the road out from under some units would be the best thing to do, but failing that, just get rid of the road altogether, make the boopers climb the mountain the hard way.

He did more than that. "City defenses really important I think. Gobwin Knob seems as tough as Tool claims. Ansom plans feint through tunnels, but might have to come in that way anyway. Force him to? Sizemore built our defenses and dug a lot of the tunnels, says he has some tricks to slow them down. Gotta talk to him more."

First off, unless there is a major change to the plan, only Jillian will be with the air assault team. Second, in the face of such an attack, Parson could simply have everyone withdraw to the tunnels. I still expect something cool with the walls, though.

Are you sure? Webinar can fly gwiffins, and possibly Dora as well; Ansom has the carpet, which like the Hat, might be able to be "lent" to anyone who needs it; and Vinny and the Archons can fly without any artifact/mount. The road is critical for the siege engines, which was Ansom's primary plan. Batter down the walls, swarm through the first breech. Use superior numbers to put everything to the sword. Destroying the road will stop the siege engines until the marbits get it fixed, or Parson is able to find another way of driving off the Coalition.

I don't think regular troops can do much against walls. Otherwise, why bother with the siege? You may get more than you think.

That's trickier to say. If food "pops," you don't really need to stockpile, which means starvation is no longer a problem. Random pot-shots from archers lobbing random rounds over the wall could cause morale problems.

That works. Or just collapse the tunnel. Why bother with the water? Crushing rocks are just as effective, and in a mountain there's no shortage of them. It's hard to re-set a water trap.

Sizemore doesn't really work with "fresh" water. "Used" is a bit more accurate term. Eeeeewwww!

[SteveMB]

The golem or twoll has to get its hands on Jillian first, which would require her to come low enough to the ground for that to happen. I'm figuring about the same odds as Xykon arriving in Celestia and allowing Roy to make unarmed attacks against him!

We know that Jillian is reckless and gets into unnecessary fights. I'm inclined to agree with Sizemore that these are "things she is inclined to do anyway" rather than a result of Wanda's brainwashing (i.e. she's still reckless and overagressive in combat, though perhaps a bit less so).

Are you sure? Webinar can fly gwiffins, and possibly Dora as well

We've seen that Dora can ride a gwiffin.

Destroying the road will stop the siege engines until the marbits get it fixed, or Parson is able to find another way of driving off the Coalition.

As I noted earlier, it apparently wouldn't stop the cloth golems, which Parson considered worth targeting as part of his anti-siege raids. Maybe the were targeted because they were pushing the towers -- but if so, why not just stick to destroying the towers?

[jindra34]

As I noted earlier, it apparently wouldn't stop the cloth golems, which Parson considered worth targeting as part of his anti-siege raids. Maybe the were targeted because they were pushing the towers -- but if so, why not just stick to destroying the towers?

yes cloth golems can go cross country, but when has near vertical wall has been classified as cross country?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

We know that Jillian is reckless and gets into unnecessary fights. I'm inclined to agree with Sizemore that these are "things she is inclined to do anyway" rather than a result of Wanda's brainwashing (i.e. she's still reckless and overagressive in combat, though perhaps a bit less so).

Sure, but dropping down to waste a twoll and three skellys or soloing a dwagon in a stack so you can go see your GF is quite a bit different than dropping into about 400 or so assorted troops INSIDE their own walls. I'm sure even Jillian sees the risk there.

We've seen that Dora can ride a gwiffin.

Forgot that one. I knew she could ride "normal" mounts, so that reinforces the idea that it won't be ONLY Jillian doing fly-bys and dropping hate and discontent on Parson's forces. Like Parson needs more problems. Joy.

As I noted earlier, it apparently wouldn't stop the cloth golems, which Parson considered worth targeting as part of his anti-siege raids. Maybe the were targeted because they were pushing the towers -- but if so, why not just stick to destroying the towers?

The Battle Bears can throw rocks, but probably not as well, or as far, or with as much force as the siege engines. More mobile and versatile, less range. If Parson has some sort of medium range weapons such as a ballista, he might be able to pincusion the Battle Bears before they can get into range to damage the walls.

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In fact, linking the Battle Table to the ballista batteries might give Parson a rudementary Fire Control RADAR set up. More accurate than just point and hope, less than sending out an air-to-air flying unit.

Just a few thoughts.

[Lord Zentei]

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In fact, linking the Battle Table to the ballista batteries might give Parson a rudementary Fire Control RADAR set up. More accurate than just point and hope, less than sending out an air-to-air flying unit.

But does that thing even work anymore?

[Jasdoif]

The Battle Bears can throw rocks, but probably not as well, or as far, or with as much force as the siege engines. More mobile and versatile, less range.

I wonder if Parson's crap/rock/metal golems can do the same "throwing stuff" bit as their cloth counterparts. And if so, if they could attempt anti-air by...throwing stuff at fliers and hoping for the best.

Wouldn't be my first recommendation, particularly not inside the city; but the given the archers may require something resembling backup, given their numbers.

[John Campbell]

But does that thing even work anymore?

Of the three casters necessary to power it, one is dead and one is fled, so I'm guessing "no".

[Lord Zentei]

Of the three casters necessary to power it, one is dead and one is fled, so I'm guessing "no".

That was my perception also.

No "radar guidance" for Parson.

[Nerd_Paladin]

I'm still confused, why exactly did Misty die?

Sword or no, I sincerely doubt that Parson will at any point engage in direct hand-to-hand combat. It's just too ridiculous. If he does, it will end swiftly and in disaster.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

But does that thing even work anymore?

Don't know. One of those questions that will have to be answered "in the fullness of time."

But that WAS Parson's destination. Maybe he can get some basic information from the with just Maggie, or maybe not. A "thinkamancer" might (stress on the word "MIGHT!") be able to activate the table, with the rest of the 'mancers needed to send/receive orders, lift the fog of war, etc.

It's pure speculation, but that's my current theory. Otherwise, Parson would be heading up to the top of the tower with a good pair of binoculars.

[SteveMB]

I'm still confused, why exactly did Misty die?

Sizemore warned Parson that dealing with Misty as an individual could break the link: "That may croak the casters. Or leave them useless. Or, have no effect."

It's possible that all three results happened in this case (if the Foolamancer's apparent insanity leaves him "useless" in that he does not respond to commands).

But that WAS Parson's destination. Maybe he can get some basic information from the with just Maggie, or maybe not. A "thinkamancer" might (stress on the word "MIGHT!") be able to activate the table, with the rest of the 'mancers needed to send/receive orders, lift the fog of war, etc.

Parson was originally on his way to the war room in an attempt to get Stanley to hit Ansom & Company while they had the opportunity. (It's possible that he didn't hear Stanley's order to break the Eyemancers' link.) After finding out that Stanley and the Foolamancer were gone... well, the war room was still the place to get some useful information.

Maggie can presumably relay orders and reports (though probably much less effectively without the table interface). She might also be able to do something to bring Wanda out of her state of shock.