LGBT people in the playground

[SMEE]

Oh vey... those mood swings have been quite hard to deal with...

Today's been quite hard, for I'm feeling down the whole day, going from slight bothered to despair... And that's not good when you have to be very productive at work...

So, my fellow Trans friends, get ready to deal with it when you start doing hormones.
You may or may not have them, and I trully hope that you don't have to go through it... It's not exactly fun...

[Zeb The Troll]

Of course, the military (not that one specifically, but in general) has also been responsible for causing or perpetuating a lot of those things. Just sayin'. 'course, you can support the people and the ideal without supporting the use it's put to.

Exactly my point. There is policy and then there is service and opinions on the two shouldn't be mixed. It is entirely possible to support troops without supporting the decisions from on high. I served under both 41 and 42. I did not agree with every decision that each of them made but I don't regret a moment that I served.

You know, I would've thought that if you were against homosexuality and the like, you'd consider the army to be the best place for such people... You know, a long way away in dangerous situations. But then, whoever said bigots were logical about it? >shruggers<

That's an odd way of looking at it. The idea is for people to not die as a result of their military service. That view would be actively hoping for failure, it seems. The prevailing view is that having gays in the military would be a detriment to the non-gay soldiers doing their jobs effectively. Our sons and daughters are in harm's way, so let's not give them something else to worry about too. (I want to emphasize that this is not an opinion I share, but the opinion of policy makers who are afraid to let gay persons act on their sense of duty and patriotism in this fashion.) Of course, the most common response to that argument is "that's what they said about blacks in the military 150 years ago".

I want to reiterate that, while you will find bigotry in the military, my experience tells me that it won't be on any different scale than you would find it outside of the military. The armed forces do not have a monopoly on being able to fire you for your sexual preferences. Any employer can do that.

[Serpentine]

That's an odd way of looking at it. The idea is for people to not die as a result of their military service. That view would be actively hoping for failure, it seems. The prevailing view is that having gays in the military would be a detriment to the non-gay soldiers doing their jobs effectively.

Well, the thought occurs to me that (specifically in times of conscription), if only straight men were allowed to join and then were sent overseas, the homosexual population at home would be proportionally greater. Which, one would think, would be something the bigots wouldn't want... But I know, your explanation is the true one. Hell, they even invented (or attempted to invent) a weapon based on that, or so I hear.

The armed forces do not have a monopoly on being able to fire you for your sexual preferences. Any employer can do that.

I was going to say "They can do that there?! Not here, that would be unfair dismissal, you could and should sue them!" but then I remembered recent changes to the laws

[QueenOfMemnoch]

All it takes is one anonymous tip.

I've looked into it- they'd have to have hard evidence besides the anonymous tip. As in, lesbian pronzorz located in my living area or pictures of me with another woman.
And, Rex- the military does not hold a "bomb everything" stance. Most people in the military don't even have combat positions (although everyone is trained to, just in case). A lot of it is humanitarian relief.
'Sides, the Peace Corps won't pay my college bills.
Beyond that, of course I don't support EVERYTHING this country does. Nobody completely agrees with all of our policies- but I'm going to defend it. Because its my home.

[Raven T.]

I sit here and read. I read about the problems you have just because of who you are (I'm steering clear of this military discussion because, quite frankly, I don't know what my stance is anymore.) I do not, and my never, have to deal with it on a daily basis. I do not even know if I can fathom the difficulties people have on a daily basis.

What right do I have to offer support if I cannot understand your situation? What permits me to even sit here and listen to you speak of the acts that others do to you?

You folks have strength I could never dream of having. I applaud you for getting up every day and surviving the slings and arrows of your lives.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Really? And here I thought, do to all the videos and and television programs and commercials, that it was all about bombing the crap out of people. If you go in for that, and get a humanitarian position, I bet you'd be pissed. Whatever, I'm just saying, consider other paths, this one is very dangerous, lying to the government can get you into a lot of trouble, and it's not something I'd like to see for you; nor is being put into combat situations. Think it out, consider all options before you settle on this one. If you're going to get out of ROTC, then look at every option.

[QueenOfMemnoch]

Really? And here I thought, do to all the videos and and television programs and commercials, that it was all about bombing the crap out of people. If you go in for that, and get a humanitarian position, I bet you'd be pissed. Whatever, I'm just saying, consider other paths, this one is very dangerous, lying to the government can get you into a lot of trouble, and it's not something I'd like to see for you; nor is being put into combat situations. Think it out, consider all options before you settle on this one. If you're going to get out of ROTC, then look at every option.

Rex, I've been surrounded by the military a good portion of my life- I'm pretty sure I know whether or not its all about bombing than you do.
I've been considering the military for five years- I've looked at everything else, closely. This isn't just some random thing I decided the other day.
I've researched, I've talked to people, I spent four years in AFJROTC and now I'm in Army ROTC. I've visited military bases and housing, I've done imitation boot camp and I've seen almost everything there is to see when it comes to military life.
I want this. Not only do I want this, it seems like the only viable option for me.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Exactly, you're completely indoctrinated and don't see another way out. I'm saying there are, you just aren't looking. Have you tried doing other things? Other people can make due without having to serve, why can't you?

I urge you to think everything through. What are the potential consequences of your decisions? What else can you do? Is this actually your best skill? Is this what you want? Reach deep within yourself, and if you can say it without a little voice in your head say, "No, no, don't do this." Then I will agree that it is possibly your best choice.

[Shadow of the Sun]

How about we stop having a little political debate, and keep this thread to it's intended purpose, of supporting people, hmm?

*huggles SMEE*

[Saithis Bladewing]

This is not the place for this, you guys are completely de-railing the thread. If you're going to argue can you please do it somewhere else, for me? Pretty please?

Sorry to hear about your hormones SMEE, but don't worry, it'll be worth it in the end I'm sure. *Hugs.*

[QueenOfMemnoch]

Exactly, you're completely indoctrinated and don't see another way out. I'm saying there are, you just aren't looking. Have you tried doing other things? Other people can make due without having to serve, why can't you?

I urge you to think everything through. What are the potential consequences of your decisions? What else can you do? Is this actually your best skill? Is this what you want? Reach deep within yourself, and if you can say it without a little voice in your head say, "No, no, don't do this." Then I will agree that it is possibly your best choice.

I am NOT indoctrinated and I DO NOT appreciate you saying so.
I'm about as liberal as they come, and many of my opinions oppose those of the government. I am about as far from being indoctrinated as you can get.
Potential consequences of my decision? I get to defend the country that allows me to think its a stupid "war" we're in.
I want to be in the military, Goddamit, I WANT TO BE. So STOP belittling it!
Yeah, they won't let me be open about my sexuality, but there are countries that would kill CIVILIANS who show homosexual tendencies.
There isn't another option open that I'd want to take part in. I'm dropping out of college after this year because I can't keep up. What does that leave me? Some craptacular minimum-wage job?
When the military offers free housing and a decent wage and the pride of knowing I'm giving back to the country that supported me? And YOUR right to crap all over it? You'd better believe I'll keep my sexuality on the lowdown for that.
I won't respond to you anymore, Rex.

And I'm sorry about those hormones, SMEE. They'll work themselves out, won't they? I mean, they just need time to reach an equilibrium.
:: huggles::

[SMEE]

I can only hope, for my mood and my humor are too far down in the negatives today that they may cause a system overflow and go back up into the positives... And that would be quite a brutal change...

[Rex Idiotarum]

Not a political debate, just a plea to look into yourself, and to look out of your way to maybe choose another destination.

Please don't get angry. It just shows that you are acting irrationally. You'll know a decision is right when both your logic and emotions agree. Queeny, I have to stress. College isn't everything, and it doesn't have to be as stressful as you make it out to be.

I have realized that there are always hidden ways of doing things. Like the CLEP, I just learned of, way too late to change my course schedule, I don't have to take English Comp. 1 or 2. Would you look at that? I thought I had to.

There are many options, and I stress that you should leave yourself open for them. Please read it as what I mean, don't read it as what you think. I'm not here to give you a hard time, I'm just saying that things might not be as hard as you think.

[AmberVael]

*hugs SMEE*

It's bad, but it'll be worth it in the end, right?

[skywalker]

Jimi Hendrix did it to get out of service.

Yes, it did used to be a conscription dodge, many people claimed they were gay to get out of going to Vietnam.

But no, Hendrix did not do it. Hendrix served a year in the 101st airborne division.

I think there are a variety of reasons why "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is a good policy, foremost among them that military men spend a lot of time in close proximity, and I can see how it would make some guys(I speak of men in this example because that's where most of the controversy is) uncomfortable. And even though it's intolerant, it's probably more important to make the vast majority of soldiers comfortable together(and thus, friendlier, closer, better able to fight), than it is to tolerate everyone. If, at a certain time, more military personnel became comfortable with having LGBT people around, it would be a great idea to change "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." But I'll bet if you polled actual military personnel, you would find that they'd say they'd be uncomfortable knowing that dude, or this dudette, is gay/lesbian/whatever. Most people still are, and it's wrong to force a volunteer army who's overwhelmingly against it to accept that. More than that, it would probably drive enlistment down a significant amount, which is something the US Armed Forces do not need at this time.

(Please note that this in no way represents my own views at all. I am very, very supportive of LGBT people and once thought I was bi, but I'm not the army.)

@saithis bladewing: What's the thread supposed to be about, then, SMEE's hormones? No offense meant, but it's kind of an inevitable topic, isn't it? There's been a lot of things said in this thread and somebody finally called somebody else on it. It happens, especially here on GITP.

Cheers to QueenofMemnoch, for standing up for what you believe in.

[Saithis Bladewing]

@saithis bladewing: What's the thread supposed to be about, then, SMEE's hormones? No offense meant, but it's kind of an inevitable topic, isn't it? There's been a lot of things said in this thread and somebody finally called somebody else on it. It happens, especially here on GITP.

Cheers to QueenofMemnoch, for standing up for what you believe in.

I am not saying that intolerance of homosexuality is not a serious topic to be brought up, what I am saying is that this argument is causing hurt feelings on all sides and raising tensions. Hell, the AIM chat is in chaos and rife with violent arguments full of cursing because of it. If an argument is about to break out, it's really irresponsible and disruptive to forum-goers to bring others into it. This thread wasn't intended to become a continuation of bickering that reaches further back than its existence entails. Plus the topic in question does slide dangerously close to political areas.

Anyway, QoM, if you intend to go into the military, I wish you good luck, and hope things go well for you. It's a hard life, but I have confidence that you're tough enough to deal with it. Do the playgrounders proud if this is the decision you really want to make, and stay alive for us! God knows if you all go off and get killed, I'll have nobody to poke fun at.

[Serpentine]

To be fair, Saithis, a lot of the actual swearing was coming from you

Also SMEE's hormones are far more pertinent to this thread than whether someone's joining the army. Note that it drifted far from the initial issue of intolerance.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Again, Sai, thanks for trying. But I think you failed to understand me.

Best of Luck, Queen.

Aye, you're changing your body through medications, conflicts are bound to arise.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Again, Sai, thanks for trying. But I think you failed to understand me.

Best of Luck, Queen.

Aye, you're changing your body through medications, conflicts are bound to arise.

Umm, what? I know this is unrelated to the thread, Rex, but I never tried to understand you, so please don't be so arrogant as to presume my intent or what I am trying to do. I am simply calling what I am seeing. It's very simple really.

[skywalker]

To be fair, Saithis, a lot of the actual swearing was coming from you

Also SMEE's hormones are far more pertinent to this thread than whether someone's joining the army. Note that it drifted far from the initial issue of intolerance.

Why are SMEE's hormones more important than QoM's problems with the army? Or did I misunderstand you?

[Khantalas]

I am... umm... straight. As straight as an elephant's trunk, in my words, but pretty straight. And I pretty much like being a male (though admittedly, I could do without having a definite sex). And... umm... I've discovered this about 16 years ago. I am 17 now. Though I would like to be an LGBT Rights Supporter when I grow up if there is still the need for them.

Wow... Things that happen to folks, huh?

(Wait, I'm not supposed to be posting here anymore *runs*)

[PhoeKun]

I can only hope, for my mood and my humor are too far down in the negatives today that they may cause a system overflow and go back up into the positives... And that would be quite a brutal change...

I know that your mood swings should balance out as your body adjusts to the new hormone levels (this started when you upped the dosage, right?), but I really hope for your sake it happens quickly. No part of this sounds fun...

*sympathetic hugs*

[QueenOfMemnoch]

Why are SMEE's hormones more important than QoM's problems with the army? Or did I misunderstand you?

Because SOMEONE degraded my issues with the army from being about the intolerance and how much I will have to hide myself to a debate over the armed forces. Of course, it is equally my fault since I gave in and argued.
And SMEE is going through something much worse.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Not a political debate, just a plea to look into yourself, and to look out of your way to maybe choose another destination.

It is a political debate, because from what I can gather, you don't think people should join the army full stop. That's a political decision. Pacifism is a political ideology. If you think that she shouldn't be in the army because the army is a bad place full of intolerant murderers then that's a political point of view which you are trying to force on someone by telling them to leave the army.

You talked about logic and emotions while implying that someone else's logic and emotions should be the same as yours. That isn't the way the world works. That's like replying to a 10,000 word research paper that took experts several years to complete with "think of the children".

I'm assuming you mean well, but this is a thread about tolerance, it isn't the place to criticise someone's career choice because you have a differant ideology to them. I may have some reasons why I dislike homosexuality, but I'm not going to convince anyone in this thread that they're immoral.

[rubakhin]

The Peace Corps is elitist. They won't let you in unless you have a college degree - even if it's in something like Communications and you're going over there to ladle soup and build hutches. I hate that. I tried to join up because I want to get out of this ghetto and be useful to somebody besides myself - I'm sure there are thousands of others in my position - and they wouldn't give me the time of day. I'm sick of being treated like I'm not a human being in this country because I wasn't able to finish school.

Need to make a Poor and Uneducated in the Playground thread or somethin'.

And ... um ... I swear I came in here to be on-topic. Trying to work things out with my boyfriend-of-sorts. His mother broke us up for a while. We just recently started talking through the internet again. I have no idea what our relationship is now. He still loves me, but he's chickening out about his alleged straightness. Again. Half the time I get "Ah, I'm so glad I found a man, we are like brothers!" and the other half it's "Truly, I can never be sexually attracted to a man." (One wonders how he managed to bring himself to sleep with me, then.) I think he just wants to be friends, but he won't come out and say it, so I'm getting lots of grandiose comments about Russian Brotherhood and The Purity of Friendship Between Men. I'm not sure whether I'm being dumped or initiated into the Komsomol. I wish he'd sort himself the hell out. It's not like we'll need to worry about sex anytime soon, because he's in a clinic a thousand miles away and in December, if I can get my passport ready, I'll be in Mexico City for half a year. Then, once I get back, we'd have something like six weeks to figure out how to see each other (in flagrant violation of every single one of his relatives', doctors', and therapists' wishes, and they own his car and his money and his life) and then he's off to Russia for the summer. I hate it when he goes to Russia. First of all because it breaks my heart that I haven't seen the motherland in years and I'm always resentful and jealous for a while. Second of all because Moscow is the sin capital of the world and Russian women are whores. Oh, the inviolable whoredom of the Slavonic bitch! They are whores, they always have been whores, and they always will be whores. This is an objective anthropological observation, I'm not being misogynistic or bitter. It's in their blood. There's no nice way to put it. Well, maybe "comfortable with free sexual expression" would be a nice way to put it. Nice for them, horrible for **** with good-looking straight boyfriends who can't say no to women. God forbid they actually talk to him. Then they find out he has money, a Yale degree, and comes from (omg!) America. I just know that sooner or later he's going to sleep with the first woman who asks, which wouldn't bother me much in and of itself, but because he's like that he'll decide that he's in love with her and then it's goodbye to the pederast.

Christ. Note to bigots: No, homosexuals don't want to convert. It's far more trouble than its worth.

[skywalker]

Because SOMEONE degraded my issues with the army from being about the intolerance and how much I will have to hide myself to a debate over the armed forces. Of course, it is equally my fault since I gave in and argued.
And SMEE is going through something much worse.

You're not pointing fingers at me, are you? I'm sometimes bad at telling over the internet.

I personally don't think that makes SMEE any more important than you. But that's just me.

I'd like to once again say I commend you for being that commited to serving, I know I wouldn't be.

EDIT: Rubakhin, chill out dude. You're saying some really mean things up there, and this thread is already dancing close to the line(I think it started out dancing close to the line. My advice to you: Dump him. Get over him, find yourself a nice boy who lives in the same zip code as you.

[QueenOfMemnoch]

-snip-

I wish he'd sort himself the hell out. It's not like we'll need to worry about sex anytime soon, because he's in a clinic a thousand miles away and in December, if I can get my passport ready, I'll be in Mexico City for half a year. Then, once I get back, we'd have something like six weeks to figure out how to see each other (in flagrant violation of every single one of his relatives', doctors', and therapists' wishes, and they own his car and his money and his life) and then he's off to Russia for the summer. I hate it when he goes to Russia. First of all because it breaks my heart that I haven't seen the motherland in years and I'm always resentful and jealous for a while. Second of all because Moscow is the sin capital of the world and Russian women are whores. Oh, the inviolable whoredom of the Slavonic bitch! They are whores, they always have been whores, and they always will be whores. This is an objective anthropological observation, I'm not being misogynistic or bitter. It's in their blood. There's no nice way to put it. Well, maybe "comfortable with free sexual expression" would be a nice way to put it. Nice for them, horrible for **** with good-looking straight boyfriends who can't say no to women. God forbid they actually talk to him. Then they find out he has money, a Yale degree, and comes from (omg!) America. I just know that sooner or later he's going to sleep with the first woman who asks, which wouldn't bother me much in and of itself, but because he's like that he'll decide that he's in love with her and then it's goodbye to the pederast.

Christ. Note to bigots: No, homosexuals don't want to convert. It's far more trouble than its worth.

You know, that isn't a viable view on Russian women. I know a few personally who are the pictures of abstinence.
In anycase, I hate to point this out, but if your boyfriend is having all these issues and denying his homosexuality, I don't think that's a healthy relationship for you.
I once dated a girl who did the same thing, and, eventually, I couldn't handle it. Why stay in a relationship with someone who says over and over that they can't love/be attracted to you?
And that's what it comes down to, really. If he says he can't be attracted to men, in a way he's saying he can't be attracted to you.
::huggles:: I hope I'm not being mean >.<

And, no Skywalker, I wasn't pointing a finger at you
Thanks for the support!

[Terumitsu]

And up from the depths of lurking, I drop in something... mostly due to the fact that Rexy decided to say something about my way of speech...And other things to be posted after this... but anyway.. that was like a page ago now what with debates and such.

As is my philosophy others first though:
Sorry to hear about the 'swings SMEE. The end may justify the reason but the means are a bitch. You can be sure that you can talk to me if not any one random person here. Kinda nice what with places like these is that some people do infact make sure they care. We all support you... even if that comes down to the 'royal we' I seem to be so fond of using.

And Queen, I know you know what I said about the army. But to reiterate, you also have my support here for whatever worth that may be. Moral support... though my morals may be questionable at times and about as relevent as a sack of new england potatoes at a casino to what I do. I actualy am going to take a second and say thank you for helping me get this far, what with me getting to know myself better and thus now posting my personal bits here.

Warning: Massive block of text ahead!

But as Rex said earlyer, I do have a bit of a habit to be rather vague or obfucscatory. Come to think of it... I might be able to say that one of my reasons for such could possibly be traced to a bit of self repression years back. To be forward to those of you that just read for the orentations or what not. Teru is bi-ish... Rather... I would like to be both male and female. I assume that if I really had the choice.. I might go and take female as I may only say male just due to familiarity. Personaly, I would like to be the one who bears my children.. well, the whole mother thing, not the 'impregnates one's self' thing... But as my current gender and my lack of childbearing hips will attest. That will not happen any time soon. But that is just my rambling.

I was often seen as not only introverted but generaly asexual for most of my existance... Not like I didn't have urges but I generaly had them hidden to a point that it was like I didn't know they were there. For a brief history, my family is not quite homophobic.. but you have the idea that it is best not to say anything. 'Christan' and in the american 'bible belt,' I grew up with the 'opposites attract, likes repel' teachings... but when they began to conflict with my own feelings... I generaly tried to quash them and keep myself from getting to know really much of anyone.. I still had my childhood friends and still do,(as a bit of a tangent here, we all regularly make jokes that I am a "man-whore" who regularly does erotic dancing at clubs for the highest bidder... And my 'man-candy' picture file is regularly brought up as pictues of prevous clients. Mostly due to how I have picked up a habit of pointing someone out and saying "Hey, isn't s/he kinda cute/nice/hot/I think I need a clean set of undergarmets." And such things like that.) but I was in a stangnate state. I guess it was then I devloped my way of 'half speak' and saying things in an arcane fasion. Now I just do it out of habit... Not to be cool or anything but just because it is unique to me in my way of speak. But onward from digression!
To make a long story short, my self repression was the thing that gave rise to a highly active fantasy life, one that I am actualy greatful for as it now is my current crutch versus a bit of crap right now.. but that is for the next post.. anyway, I met Queen through an RP site (ironic really) and after talking and generaly a good amount of time (about six or so months) I loosened up... I attribute this a little to my fantasies being where I was mostly loose and allowed me to let my muses play as they wished. The rest is due to the fact that she is just the sort of person that you either love or don't.. I say she is still an amazing person even now that we have moved on. In anycase I was able to come to terms with myself after a time. Now... I will say that it took the better part of two and a half years but I can actualy think of myself as mostly comfortable with what I am... I still would like to be female or to choose what I want to be for the day or what not but that is my personal wishes intruding upon reality.. Reality is rather hard to bend when not in that silly place called 'Town.' I had also thought of SMEE's solution but I have more than plenty on my plate at the time and I also have days where I want to be 'male' and others 'female' So, I just take the fact that I am physicly male and go with it... Though I have apparently been able to jocularly trick a few people into thinking otherwise in chats... Sorry but I couldn't help it for those of you seeing this.
As for my actual bi-sexuality... I think I should restate that. I care not if the person is male or female... I am one of the 'rare breed' who looks at personality first... and if they have good lips... good lips are always nice. So.. I guess that may be a bit different than just bi... possibly pan-sexual I guess but I have given up trying to classify myself as such a sexuality this or that and just said the two following things:
"I'm just Teru-sexual... fear me."
"Some people look at men and say 'Yes.'
Some look at women and say 'Yes'
I look at a group of people, pick out the one I like and say, 'Thank you very much. Can I have some more?'"
.... And I think I secretly love all people... I just get angry sometimes...

[Kaelaroth]

Well Terumitsu, all I can say is: Wow! It's very cool that you are that relaxed about your sexuality - it's nothing to feel angry about it.

Oh, and someone asked me to elaborate on my friend and the rape rumour. He is very, very, very small, and into all the things that are stereotypically nerdy. I stuck up a friendship with him, and a certain someone (found out who it was today) decided that meant I must be raping him. They be going down!!!!

Smee, I am sorry your having problems. I hope you feel a lot better soon!

[Bluelantern]

Oh, and someone asked me to elaborate on my friend and the rape rumour. He is very, very, very small, and into all the things that are stereotypically nerdy. I stuck up a friendship with him, and a certain someone (found out who it was today) decided that meant I must be raping him. They be going down!!!!

I praying that you revenge will be sucessfull and merciless

Also, when I said "I am gay, not easy". I was trying to say that is not easy to be gay.

I not a whore, but I guess I could be called easy . I don't get out much... so when the opportunity appears... =/