Projectile Finesse [Feat]

[Reinboom]

I see a lot of work arounds and class features to get this effect, but why isn't it a simple, available, feat?..

Projectile Finesse
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4, Point Blank Shot
Benefit: With a projectile weapon for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier on damage rolls as long as you are within a half of a range increment for the weapon.
Special: A fighter may select Projectile Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats.


-edited-
using Neftren's name

[TheLogman]

But, you already do use Dex instead of Strength, Dex is the stat for ranged combat. Composite bows allow you to use Strength as damage, but they were specially made for that, and are the exception to the rule.

[Fax Celestis]

But, you already do use Dex instead of Strength, Dex is the stat for ranged combat. Composite bows allow you to use Strength as damage, but they were specially made for that, and are the exception to the rule.

Incorrect. You use your Dex mod for to-hit, and do not add it to damage.

[TheLogman]

Huh, I've been doing it wrong then. What're Composite Bows for then?

[Reinboom]

Huh, I've been doing it wrong then. What're Composite Bows for then?

Mounted Combat
Range
Adding strength bonus at all

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbow

[Nebo_]

Composite bows let you add some or all of your strength to damage.

[ArmorArmadillo]

You usually don't add anything to ranged attack damage on bows, composite bows allow you to add your strength.

Thrown weapons already add strength.


As for the feat itself, I'd take out or reduce the BAB requirement, as it seems like it would alienate scouts, rogues, and other Dex based-mid BAB classes.

Also, limiting it to Martial ranged weapons is awkward, as, aside from the fact that I don't see any reason not to apply this feat to crossbows, it would make it impossible to apply it to any kind of exotic bow.

[DracoDei]

Dexterity NEVER applies to damage by the RAW... I think that is what the original poster was commenting on.
For precision based damage that applies to ranged attack there is the Point Blank Shot Feat, the Weapon Focus Feat, Sneak Attack, and/or a Ranger's favored enemy bonus... given the existence of these, allowing Dex to be added to damage for ranged attacks "feels" a bit iffy to me, but YMMV.

[Lord Tataraus]

Dexterity NEVER applies to damage by the RAW... I think that is what the original poster was commenting on.
For precision based damage that applies to ranged attack there is the Point Blank Shot Feat, the Weapon Focus Feat, Sneak Attack, and/or a Ranger's favored enemy bonus... given the existence of these, allowing Dex to be added to damage for ranged attacks "feels" a bit iffy to me, but YMMV.

Except that Crossbow Sniper (PHB2) and Shadow Blade (ToB) give Dex to damage with certain weapons, why not all ranged? Though it does make Crossbow Sniper a bit redundant...oh well, good feat.

[Reinboom]

Reworded it slightly to apply to all projectiles (bows + slings), and to only replace strength when strength matters...

As for the feat itself, I'd take out or reduce the BAB requirement, as it seems like it would alienate scouts, rogues, and other Dex based-mid BAB classes.

That's why it's +4 instead of +6. This was intended to be a 6th level feat for security purposes, in case it is too much. Mid BAB classes have +4 at 6th level.

Except that Crossbow Sniper (PHB2)

I just realized, this may stack with crossbow sniper... hm... redundancy aside, crossbow sniper still gives a range increase.
-edit-
Made it only a single range increment to prevent the silly "super sniper" multishot builds from taking advantage of it too much. *insert mumbling about balors at more than 100 yards away*

[Nebo_]

There is already a feat called Sharpshooter in the Iron Kingdoms campaign setting that does the same thing as this, with exactly the same, or very similar prerequisites.

[Lady Tialait]

Nice feat. It allows for a more 'classic' looking elf charitor..without ignoreing stats. Most elf Archers have a 16 str or atleast a 14 to allow for a composit bow. I like the feel of this feat for that kinda charitor. It will allow for the elf with a 10 str to still use a composit bow.

The name of the feat is a little akward if you think of it. It brings up images of Weapon finease..witch replaces str with dex for melee but still messes with me. I see no reason why it should be limeted on range past what the composite bow already has. Seeing how if I wanted a Super Sniper I would get a Composite bow and consintrate on Str and Dex before..this just makes the idea easier. witch in some ways is fine.

[Reinboom]

There is already a feat called Sharpshooter in the Iron Kingdoms campaign setting that does the same thing as this, with exactly the same, or very similar prerequisites.

I do not neither own, nor have access to, Iron Kingdoms. Nor, do I expect, a lot of people. So, holding it back (and pointing to IK) on this basis alone would be rather pointless.
Nor do I intend to mix D20 projects so pickingly (though, I expect they could probably mix well).
It is reassuring that I made it in such a close way to a published and accepted material, though. Design-ego boost for me! ;P

Also, this was made with one of my players in mind. I do not give access to iron kingdoms as a source book for material, I do, however, give access to a certain sect of homebrew.
So, just making sure there was no clear issue with the feat.

[Nebo_]

I wasn't pointing out that the similarity was in anyway suspicious. I was commenting that such similar design probably means that you're onto something good. I like the feat, well done.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think you should make a note that this counts as precision damage and drop the line about replacing Strength damage, because it doesn't seem like having a high dex should help someone pull back the string on a composite bow. The composite bow adds Strength damage simply because it takes a higher Strength to pull back the bowstring, and I don't think a Str 10 Dex 18 character with this feat should get to use to use a Str +4 composite bow.

Of course, this means that if they used a composite bow (and had the Strength to back it up) they could add their Strength AND Dexterity to damage.

[Reinboom]

That makes sense, however, that also nerfs the archer again suddenly against golems, undead, and other things without discernible anatomies.

[Lady Tialait]

I could see a very dexious Archer pulling one of those hard composite bows with skill rather then brute force. soo nice..this doesn't seem to me like presition damage but makeing to bow work for you instead of the bruteing the bow stuff.

[Neftren]

Looks good, although your wording had me a little bit confused until I read the rest of the thread.

Archery Finesse
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4, Point Blank Shot
Benefit: With a projectile weapon for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier on damage rolls as long as you are within a single range increment for the weapon. This replaces your Strength modifier for weapons that allow one, such as composite bows.
Special: A fighter may select Archery Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats.

It'd probably be a lot easier to understand if it read like this:

Projectile Finesse
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Point Blank Shot
Benefit: With a projectile weapon for a creature of your size category, you may apply your Dexterity modifier on your damage rolls instead of your Strength modifier (when applicable) when within a single range increment for the weapon. This replaces your bonus to damage rolls with your Strength modifier for weapons that allow it, such as Composite Bows.
Normal: You apply your Strength modifier to your damage roll when using an applicable weapon, such as a Composite Bow.
Special: A Fighter may select Projectile Finesse as one of his Fighter Bonus Feats.

Dunno if that's slightly easier to understand, but I believe it removes the ambiguity that revolves around whether the damage is actually applied with a normal weapon... I mean, this would be exclusively for Composite Longbows and Shortbows. I dunno... I'm guessing this is a stab at a ranged Weapon Finesse type feat?

[Frakbox]

i find this feat very weird... (archery finesse)

how well you use your bow doesn't matter in the longrun.
its how hard you hit with it it only works that way with martial weapons where you can have your dexterity create a better way to invert your strength... much like a whip (bad example). why should the DEX modifier be able to determine damage for a bow?

your sending a single projectile towards an object... how dexterous you are should only have to do with how well you aimed. I don't think I will be using this feat.

[Magnor Criol]

Dex modifier makes sense that it could affect damage. With some training and know-how, you can aim your bow at more vulnerable or critical spots, doing more damage to a given target than if you hit them somewhere else. (A shot to the chest would cause more damage in real life than a shot to the stomach, for instance.)

Dexterity is, among many other things, a measure of how well you can aim the bow.

So, better Dex = better aim = better damage; so a Dex bonus to damage makes perfect sense. The fact that it's a feat and not the normal modus operandi is reflective of the fact that it takes training for this.

-E- Also, on that note - I really think that the dex bonus should be allowed to be added on top of a composite bow's strength bonus addition, since they're measuring two different things.

[Reinboom]

The intent isn't just for composite bows.
What I was trying to accomplish:
With Longbow : +Dex
With Composite Longbow : +Dex (but not +Str)


Currently, I'm thinking of doing something like (which would also make it easier to read):
Requires: Point blank shot and BAB +1

With Longbow: + 1/2 Dex
With Composite Longbow : + 1/2 Dex + Str

With BAB +7 or higher :
With Longbow: + Dex
With Composite Longbow : + Dex + Str

Bah, too much hassle. I'm not seeing much of an issue why just adding dex would be an issue.

[Roderick_BR]

There's a feat that adds your Dex to damage when using sneak attack or skirmish, don't remember the name now. But this is interesting. Just add the same limits that Point Blank Shot have, i.e., consider it precision damage.

[levi]

As it was mentioned, but the feat itself was not provided, here you go:

Sharpshooter [General, Fighter]

The character's aim with his choosen weapon is incredible, allowing him to strike home when others would merely graze or scratch a target.

Prerequisite: Precise Shot, Weapon Focus with selected weapon

Benefit: The character adds his dexterity modifier to damage while using a ranged weapon with which he has the Weapon Focus feat.

I happen to have this on hand because over at Tears of Blood, we're using some rules from Iron Kingdoms and I'm handling them.

I also have a feat of my own design called Improved Weapon Finesse that allows one to use Dex for damage on weapons you can finesse. It's only prereq is Weapon Finesse, but I'm not sure if that's balanced or not. As written, it doesn't work on projectiles, but I though you might be interest as it's a similar sort of ability.