Results 601 to 630 of 725
Thread: Order of the Stick: November II
-
2005-11-30, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- New York
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by eof
I think she believes flanked attacks are dishonorable because you aren't facing your opponent. If you cannot look your opponent in the eye when killing him, you are a coward. You are literally a backstabber. At least, that's what I think the issue is. Miko always faces her opponent, even if the oppenent if flat-footed.
Originally Posted by eofHere is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS
-
2005-11-30, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- New York
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
oops... double post
Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS
-
2005-11-30, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Bolingbrook, IL USA
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by manscatha
1. Miko apparently has a feat that forces the target of her stunning attack to make Will saves instead of Fortitude saves. Kinda cool, actually; I might add it to my campaign setting. But definitely not in the SRD.
2. Roy isn't allowed an AoO when Windstrider tries to sunder his club. Hrmph.
3. V can successfully cast cone of cold defensively, but not disintegrate? Bah, I say. Bah! And shouldn't V be smart enough to cast invisibility? Or cast a buff on Roy or Haley? Or at least take a 5 foot step so he isn't flanked?
4. V's ranged attack bonus is disparaged. His BAB is +6, even an average elf has a Dex bonus of +1, and Elan's bard song adds another +2. Even with the -4 penalty for firing into melee, he should have at least a +5, which I figure gives him about a 50/50 chance against a dextrous opponent, even if you throw in a ring of protection.
5. Elan is nearly murdered for daring to (attempt to) heal his friend, but Durkon goes around healing willy-nilly and doesn't get so much as a nasty look.
Foul play is afoot. >:(
Free the OotS!
P.S. This is all based on the description of the battle that the Giant posted earlier.
P.P.S. I still love the comic, and greatly respect the Giant's work. The heroes of every great story have their moments of hopelessness. Congrats to Giant for making me care so much about a half-dozen stick figures!
-
2005-11-30, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Marller
Truly she has no more social awareness than the order. It is merely attuned to her society and Roy already stated antipathy as a woman and the other would leave anyway if not for Roy and Durkon. She has no reason to believe the decision is coming out of a heated discussion.
I admit i can't be sure if she would really kill em once they are down.
I don't trust Roy's sense motive to be infallible. She might as well spare them for Durkons sake and Miko didn't hinder Durkon from healing the others.
Self control is something different than psychotic.
A small story out of the book (bear with me, i don't remember the details):
In one chapter the master of the house (an English man) put an trout up on a hook and told the servants not to touch it because he wanted to eat it later (i don't remember what he wanted to do with that bird exactly). And he left the house for a few days for some reason. While he was away the neighbors complained about the awful stench that emitted from the house and finally the janitor of the house took the bird off and buried it.
The master returned and found the bird gone, he asked who took it off. The servants said it was the janitor. He asked why the janitor did that and they said because the neighbors complained about the stench. He ordered the janitor to him and the servants told him he can't come he is dead. Shocked he asked why. They told him, that he committed seppuku because he disobeyed his master. Shaken he says, that that was unecessary it was just a bird. They tell him that he did it freely and it was necessary and that he did it for his family and his (the janitors) honor.
I'm pretty sure most Westerners can't understand such a behaviour (or life by such a codex).
-
2005-11-30, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by e
I also find it interesting that no matter what she does people are going to hate her... She gets criticized for being 'lawful stupid' because she has honor and a code that limits her actions. Yet when she is played smart she is accused of being dishonorable and should be stripped of her power (Like when she gets the upper hand in combat)
I find her actions to be completely within the bounds of lawful good and wouldn't be surprise if she is well within the bounds of whatever her paladin code is. (It hasn't been explicitly revealed but I am assuming it is something Samurai-ish)
This is why I think this way. The Order of the Stick are adventures, this means they are trained and willing to use tools of lethal force. In our world law enforcement would call that 'Armed and Dangerous.' Notice didn't say criminal yet.
...
It is only after Roy makes it clear that he is changed he mind about following her does she return to violence. Given the clear hostility of the rest of the party, their 'Armed and Dangerous' status, and the new resolve of Roy, attempting to talk them back into following her is clearly unlikely.
But subduing them and possibly killing them in the process is also a viable option, of course. Why do something else when you can just beat them up and take them by force? Indeed, why even try? :-/
Please remember that Miko is the 'Arresting Officer.' She isn't a judge, lawyer, jury, or executioner. When she killed the bandit leaders it was self defense. Killing the Orge's were defending the innocent dirt farmers. Every time she attacked the Order it was the only option she could see to fulfill her orders to bring in 'Armed and Dangerous' people in to answer for what they have done. Of course there is a risk of killing the people she is try to bring in, but given the great nature of the charge against them it would be a tragic but acceptable possibility. Just like it is in the real world when the police try to bring violent criminals.
And in all fairness, you can hardly argue that even during the short stay Miko has been with the OOTSers, they have shown traits that should count in their favor--saving the dirt farmer, stopping the assassins. It should be evident to Miko that their problem might be with her and her alone, not with them being complete bastards.
I would also like to point out that in The Giant's post about how it might have happened, it's Roy's and Durkon's thoughts and feeling that she might kill a disable opponent. At no point have we see her do this. Attacking by surprise and killing someone that is already down are two wildly different things.
-
2005-11-30, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Location
- New York City
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Kish
-
2005-11-30, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by RawBearNYC
Keep in mind that this is just me and my opinion. I started this argument by saying that the latest comic firmly put me in the anti-Miko camp. I haven't said that she has done anything that would disqualify her as a paladin. I have also said that she clashes with the picture I have of paladins, but obviously there are different kinds of paladins, living by somewhat different codes. I have no problem with that. I just don't like her. ;)
-
2005-11-30, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Wrecan
I think she believes flanked attacks are dishonorable because you aren't facing your opponent. If you cannot look your opponent in the eye when killing him, you are a coward. You are literally a backstabber. At least, that's what I think the issue is. Miko always faces her opponent, even if the oppenent if flat-footed.
(I said: ) In other words, it's not the effect, it's the context of the action. (Makes sense to me.)
Agreed, but you've taken the wrong context. It cannot be a prohibition on attacking people flatfooted as she does that to the ogres.
-
2005-11-30, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Simon
- Cast Fly immediately after being healed, then taken to the air (30' up), immediately putting him/her beyond any attack Miko normally can muster (melee only).
- Cast Greater Invisibility, getting a +2 attack bonus to his/her ranged attack rolls and denying Miko any DEX bonus to her AC (which should be SIGNIFICANT), assuming of course Miko doesn't have the Blind-Fight feat.
- Cast any ranged touch spell, like Disintegrate which already was mentioned by the Giant. Repeat until desired result is accomplished. If still going by the time Greater Invisibility ends (unlikely), swap for other spells that don't require hit rolls.
But V didn't. So IMO, they didn't expect Miko to attack, and thus what they said wasn't meant as a challenge.
-
2005-11-30, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
On the issue of Miko using flank and surprise attacks; Yes, with the ogres she let them gather and prepare first. She had a purpose for this in getting them ready for an area effect spell. She then caught the leader flat footed with a surprise attack. She has no compunctions whatsoever in using these advantages.
Avatar by Sneak - The Midnight Son by CeikaNo more a lone wolf, The Midnight Son rides again.Give thanks ye mortals, for he rides on the wings of an angel.Spoiler
-
2005-11-30, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Under a bridge n Parts Unknown
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Kilkomir
Let not your heart be troubled, Belkar is knocked out. (my bet is the horse did it) and he shall awaken when Rich needs him once again.
I can say this savely because there aren't any + or x where his eyes should be, The Rules of Cartoons state, if a character is dead you x or + there eyes.
Rich does love to follow Cartoon Law. ;D[glow=green,8,900]Buzzaro[/glow]&&(Remember you can’t have slaughter without a little laughter in it) </evil grin>[glow=red,4,300] Lets Kill Miko League--Member No. 5 [/glow]Miko is a tool of THE MAN; you\'re never go\'na make me like her!
-
2005-11-30, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Suppose Roy had succeeded on his last attack? Then what wouldve happened? Belkar kills the horse?
I dont think Miko is particularily nice, but there are people who are "good" but not nice... um... that makes less and less sense every time I look at it, but I stand by my statement. She is following orders so judgment is sorta out of her hands anyway. Kill the order? Bring the order back alive? Its the same to her.
But still, great hopes for Miko in the future...
-
2005-11-30, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by RawBearNYC
Originally Posted by eof
- Cast Greater Invisibility, getting a +2 attack bonus to his/her ranged attack rolls and denying Miko any DEX bonus to her AC (which should be SIGNIFICANT), assuming of course Miko doesn't have the Blind-Fight feat.
Originally Posted by Krytha
Do you think most of the Order is particularly nice? Haley is a thief (and I don't mean the 2ed class name). Roy is generally snide to everyone. Vaarsuvius is a conceited snob who treats almost everyone disdainfully and howls when not treated with respect. Elan and Durkon are nice; that doesn't change the fact that Elan is probably more dangerous to be around than Belkar.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2005-11-30, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Elethiomel
And now it's the same spell it always was, but now it can miss. How is that not a nerf? It's a level 6 spell. At level 7 you start seeing the no-save "Power Word" spells.
And don't Clerics still have a save-or-die spell (Slay Living) at level 5? And Harm at level 4 (or did it get nerfed, too?)? Disintegrate's actually a bit more powerful than that because it requires Resurrection to undo it. The scale seemed pretty gradual.
-
2005-11-30, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Harm is level 6, not 4.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2005-11-30, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- BROOKLYN!!
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Good stuff
An old DM of my friend created an Amulet of Railroading. +10 to everything. His words:
"It just appears on the ground 3 rounds into a battle. I hate the thing."Gitp's No. 1 Cake hater
On Vacation until Aug 7th.
Spell currently researching: Explosive Pie.
Weapon currently crafting: +1 cakebane kris
-
2005-11-30, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Oops.
It's been 6 years since 2nd edition. My memory's getting a bit fuzzy.
-
2005-11-30, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Sactown
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Kish
-
2005-11-30, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
My favorite part is that Roy can understand Haley, but no one else can! Even after casting the language spell earlier Durkon couldn't understand! Maybe it's because Roy was a woman so now he can follow? This would be great evidence of V. being a man as s/he couldn't understand Haley either, though personally i think "it's" a girl....
\"Where \'as th\'rum gone?
-
2005-11-30, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Eberron
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Kish
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...otscript?SK=49Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
Swoop Falcon
I make(made?) avatars! Last updated 12-23-2008. Requests not unwelcome. Last request 01-12-2010.
Avatar by me.
-
2005-11-30, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Seattle
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Kish
Enigma
-
2005-11-30, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by flippedwm689
Originally Posted by Deleran
Oh, btw, I don't think Roy felt very respected when Haley was tauntung him about being female.
V only treats people disdainfully if they first act disrespectfully towards him.
As much as you may like to revise it otherwise,
*No, Miko did not act disrespectfully toward Vaarsuvius before s/he first called her "this foul shrew." Therefore Vaarsuvius was immediately contemptuous of Miko--whether Miko was aware of this or not being both unprovable and, as Roy would say, "not the point."Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2005-11-30, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by NEO|PhyteAldas
Great occasions do not make heroes or cowards; they simply unveil them to the eyes of men. Silently and imperceptibly, as we wake or sleep, we grow strong or weak; and at last some crisis shows what we have become. -Brooke Foss Westcott
-
2005-11-30, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Sactown
- Gender
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Well, I assume being on the receiving end of shoot first and ask questions later might qualify as being disrespected. And V didn't disrespect the dirt farmers. He simply pointed out that the Order had more important things to attend to ("I am not intending to be completely without passion for their plight"). The way Haley was treating Roy when he was a female would be better be classified as good natured ribbing than disrespect. And yes, not treating Miko with respect is okay, because Miko doesn't treat them with respect (and began the cycle of disrespect).
-
2005-11-30, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Draedan
But they've been to town since then, and while the only place we SAW V in was the potion shop (where V got some good deals on potions), it is completely possible that there was also a shop that sold spells, and thus V could have ANYTHING that the Giant decides to give. Just because there was never a comic about it doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. V's choices of spells is literally "whatever works for the plot", and conversely, DOESN'T have anything that does NOT work for the plot.
The town visit blows the possibilities wide open.
-
2005-11-30, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by eof
from Wiki:Psychosis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotic-
a generic psychiatric term for mental states in which the components of rational thought and perception are severely impaired. Persons experiencing a psychosis may experience hallucinations, hold delusional beliefs (e.g.paranoid delusions), demonstrate personality changes and exhibit disorganized thinking.Antisocial Personality Disorder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath
Antisocial personality disorder (APD), or dissocial personality disorder, is a psychiatric diagnosis that interprets antisocial and impulsive behaviours as symptoms of a personality disorder.
Professional psychiatry generally compares APD to sociopathic disorders and psychopathic disorders (not to be confused with psychosis).
Secondly, Miko does not display symptoms of psychopathy (also known as sociopathy, and more properly known as Antisocial Personality Disorder.) People with this disorder display a lack of empathy (which she does) and a complete disreguard for the well being of others, rules, the law and authority (which she does not.)
She did not use lethal force when she attacked the OoTS for the second time. Otherwise, they would be dead.
The only thing she really seems guilty of is taking people at their word. Roy and the others directly challenged Miko to a fight. ("You're going to have to drag us there in chains.") Miko accepted the challenge, as she would be expected to in accordance with both the laws in her society and her duty as an arresting officer.
The OoTS wasn't expecting her to take up the challenge, perhaps meaning their statements as sarcastic or rhetorical, or thinking Miko wouldn't risk her life by attacking all of them. They were mistaken. A bushi is expected to willingly sacrifice his or her life in order to fulfill her duty. This is quite the opposite of sociopathic behavior, which would tend to be extremely self-serving.
Killing them all on the spot also would have been perfectly acceptable according to her (admittedly sociopathic) societal laws. However, she did not in fact kill any of them.
If we're going to be diagnostic about things, I'd say Miko is far more likely to suffer from Ausperger's syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausperger%27s_syndrome than antisocial personality disorder. Ausperger's syndrome is a form of high-functioning autisim characterized by stunted or disordered social development paired with above average intelligence; intense, narrow focus on a subject of study; and, among some, a tendency to take everything literally, being unable to recognize sarcasm, hyperbole or rhetorical questions.
edit: oh, also:People with Asperger syndrome often are noted for having a highly pedantic way of speaking, using language far more formal and structured than the situation normally would be thought to call for.
-
2005-11-30, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
- Location
- Maine, USA
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Thank you for the breakdown of the fight, Right. It was fun to read (as was the comic).
It seems that the dice were with Miko, but that doesn't equate to dm fudging.
It was very close at any rate: if Durkan had fought, the Order would have won. I wonder if that fact will come up later?
I would also like to note that Durkan still has full hit points and most of his spells, and that Miko is in very bad shape after that fight... ;)
Sure, he won't do anything, but it's fun to think about.
-
2005-11-30, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Deleran
-
2005-11-30, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
For Kish : Of course the OotS arent PERFECT people, they all have their quirks and sometimes don't have impeccable manners when dealing with each other, but they have been together for so long that they have adjusted for this. But overall, yes, they are nice people. Roy only says things to Elan that reek of sarcasm because Elan is kinda dumb sometimes and Roy is actually quite clever and rues have Elan in the party when things go sour.
But that doesnt mean that Roy is a mean person. He went back for Elan at the bandit camp (and good thing too...) So unless someone really tests Roy, he's a decent guy. My point is, outside of the order of the stick is where they treat most others with a little more respect (because theyre used to each other within the party and its rather informal). So we SEE them be jerks to each other lots of the time, but when theyre with people they dont know, they act accordingly in most cases.
Also, I get the impression that people think that there are people PLAYING these characters and that there is a DM. I just thought that the characters were themselves within a DnD universe and expecting things to happen and understanding that they have 1d10 hit die is just part of the satire. Sure Rich is the "DM" because he writes the comic, but its not like he's is at the table talking to other players who are playing Roy and Haley.
-
2005-12-01, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
Re: Order of the Stick: November II
Originally Posted by Sylvius
Normal wizards don't have to buy spells from "booster packs," and an adventuring wizard of 12th level really should have 15 ranks in Concentration. (It's not like a wizard is lacking in skill points, with all that Int.) Virtually any PC wizard of 12th level would have teleport, fly, and invisibility/improved invisibility and use them liberally. (Many wizard PCs, even elves, would still have a Con of least 14 with magical gear, by 12th level, assuming even fair starting stats.)
The point is, V (and the other OotS'ers) are nerfed for plot reasons -- I seem to remember that the Giant has specified that they are just as powerful as he needs them to be for the given story.
In this case, it means high enough level to throw around powerful effects when the Giant wants a OotS'er to kick some behind, but unoptimized enough that it doesn't take an Invincible War Machine to defeat the party.