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  1. - Top - End - #481
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Aiani's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    So many mixed emotions from this comic. On the one hand I am happy that Roy explained himself and told Miko just why he isn't interested in her anymore. ;D I was very sad to see the Order in chains though. :'( On the other hand after they have spent all this time on their way to see Lord Shojo it would almost be a let down if we didn't get to see him eventually. I don't know where this leaves me, I guess somewhere in between happy and sad. :-/
    Sweet Batpony avatar by Kairaven.

  2. - Top - End - #482
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    i love the dialogue in this strip!

    "Ten gold..." - i was thinking the same thing! (well, i imagined someone saying ten BUCKS, but close enough)

    "...You have no right..." - that sounds like good ol' miko to me.. lol

    "I'd like to see her try!" - well, Belkar, y'all might agotten away before that, but you just invoked the last panel via narrative imperative!

    Thanks giant!
    God is a comedian playing to an audience afraid to laugh.
    - Voltaire

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Duraska's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    This really is an incredible comic. I mean, the dialogue is intelligent (except Elan's, of course :)), the characters can OBVIOUSLY bring out a lot of emotion in the readers, and to top it all off - the comedic timing is perfect. Kudos to the Giant for bringing us a story that we're all obsessed with!

  4. - Top - End - #484
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    so....does Miko have a bunch of ranks in use chain? That's even kinkier than Haley's use rope!
    ;)
    Why is abbreviation such a long word?

  5. - Top - End - #485
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Whoa...even without the rain, Miko is still trashing them good, nice try though.

    On another note, isn't now a nice time to detect evil on Belkar ::)
    Screw naming the games I\'m in, keep moving, dead and alive. Bloody 15 year old life.&&&&DM of something coming REAL soon(making world)&&&&Note, real soon means a year or two.&&&&Proud member of the Anti-Banjoist movement(ABM)&&&&Thinking of a farce, and to end the farce.

  6. - Top - End - #486
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Duraska's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolfo
    On another note, isn't now a nice time to detect evil on Belkar ::)
    I wanna know where he hides that lead sheet. No, wait... I don't want to know...

  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    The Giant hinted that she used Smite Evil on Belkar, after which she knew he was evil, the same way she knew Roy wasn't evil after she tried Smite Evil on him. Detecting Evil on Belkar now would be redundant. And that also means that she was confident enough Belkar was evil, once she no longer felt obligated to give Roy's word on the matter any weight, to use Smite Evil on him. The Order is lucky she bothered to chain him up instead of gutting him, once she'd determined for certain that, yes, he's evil. (Whether it's good luck or bad luck is another matter.)
    Spoiler
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  8. - Top - End - #488
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Hmmm, am I the only one who finds it a bit weird that Roy seems to understand Haleys talking all of a sudden? The moment she replies on his trouser titan remark, he immediately says 'shut up', this way implying he understands.....

  9. - Top - End - #489
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Just so people don't think I didn't give it some thought, here's how I pictured the battle. Presume for sake of argument that because the team was planning on leaving soon, Windstriker was already summoned back from the Celestial Realm and was just off-panel in #250/251.

    Miko & Windstriker's surprise round; the OOTSers aren't actually expecting them to attack at this point. Miko partial charges Belkar, drawing her weapons but actually attacking with an unarmed Smite Evil AND a stunning kick attack (nothing says you can't use both on the same attack). Belkar takes Smite Evil damage and fails his Will save; he's stunned. Windstriker charges Haley and smacks her with a hoof.

    ROUND ONE:
    • Haley wins initiative, but there's no one to sneak attack because both Miko and the horse went already. She backs up 5 feet, draws her bow as a move action and shoots the horse once.
    • Belkar would be next, but he's stunned.
    • Miko goes third, attacking with her katana three times on Vaarsuvius. The elf goes down easily, lacking a decent Con or any HD other than d4's. She finishes up with two more unarmed attacks on Belkar: one is a second Smite Evil attack (which hits), the last is another stunning kick. Belkar's Will save still sucks; he's stunned again.
    • Elan is next; he begins his bard song and moves away from Windstriker.
    • Windstriker steps forward five feet and full attacks Haley—attempting to Sunder Haley's bow. He's a paladin warhorse, he's smart enough. Plus, because she doesn't threaten, she gets no Attack of Opportunity. The first hoof fails but the second connects; Haley's bowstring snaps. (Note the broken string in the final panel of 251).
    • Vaarsuvius would be next, but s/he's down.
    • Roy wants to charge Miko, but the stupid horse is in the way. He says screw it and disengages, earning an AOO from the horse (which tries again to Sunder his club but fails). Roy moves next to Miko, wishing there was anyone unstunned to flank with, and smacks her once hard with Power Attack.
    • Durkon attempts a hasty Diplomacy action. It fails. He also moves next to Vaarsuvius.

    Round TWO:
    • Haley has no bow and no back-up weapon (they haven't been to town since #200). She tumbles away from Windstriker towards Elan and snatches his rapier AGAIN. She mumbles about how she really needs to get herself a club or something.
    • Belkar is still stunned.
    • Miko unleashes a third and final Smite Evil on Belkar with her first katana attack, then stabs him twice with her wakizashi. Having done at least 30 damage from Smite Evil and regular damage from two kicks and a katana, Belkar drops to -4 before he gets to rage. Even that last d12 HD can't make up for 11 levels of d8+Con. Miko has two katana strikes left, which she hits Roy with.
    • Elan casts an illusion of what he pictures Lord Shojo to look like, to try to get Miko to back off. It is, not surprisingly, ineffective.
    • Windstriker charges Haley again, smacking her with a hoof attack.
    • Vaarsuvius would be next, but s/he's down.
    • Roy full attacks on Miko, hitting twice.
    • Durkon casts Heal on Vaarsuvius. S/he's back up to full hit points.

    ROUND THREE:
    • Haley can't flank the horse because Elan (the only adjacent ally) has no weapon. She settles for stabbing it twice for negligable damage.
    • Belkar bleeds to -5.
    • Miko full attacks Roy with both swords, hitting all 5 times. Roy is now badly injured.
    • Elan commands his illusion to do something that is ultimately a waste of time. He moves next to Belkar, preparing to force a potion down his throat.
    • Windstriker smacks Haley a few times with his hooves.
    • Vaarsuvius unleashes his/her most deadly spell, Disintegrate. Of course, there's a -4 to hit because Miko is in melee, and V's has no real attack bonus to speak of while Miko's touch AC doesn't suck thanks to a high Dex. The beam misses entirely.
    • Roy smacks Miko thrice with his club, misses once.
    • Durkon casts Cure Critical Wounds on Roy.

    ROUND FOUR:
    • Haley misses attacking Windstriker with the rapier once, then tumbles away to flank Miko.
    • Belkar remains out.
    • Miko takes a step back, directly over Belkar, and Lays Hands on herself, healing most of her damage.
    • Elan tries to force a potion down Belkar's throat anyway, but Miko takes an AOO and hurts him, ruining the potion.
    • Windstriker charges, striking V and trapping him between Miko and himself.
    • V can't fireball or lightning bolt because the party is too clustered. S/he probably won't make a Concentration check to cast Disintegrate defensively, and the enemies will likely make any Will saves required. S/he is forced to cast magic missile at Miko for some damage.
    • Roy steps forward and swings three times, for one hit.
    • Durkon can't get to Belkar, so he casts Prayer for his team.

    ROUND FIVE:
    • Haley can't get around the horse to flank Miko again since she stepped back and he charged in. but she is flanking the horse, so she attacks twice, missing once but Sneak Attacking a second time. The horse is pretty hurt.
    • Belkar is still down.
    • Miko goes nuts on V, critical hitting him with her katana and knocking him to -1 in one shot. She unleashes the rest of her full attack on Elan, knocking him to -8 too.
    • Elan is down.
    • Windstriker smacks Haley around again. She's pretty hurt now, having only d6 HD.
    • V is down again.
    • Roy attacks Miko three times, only hitting once.
    • Durkon decides to stabilize Elan with a CLW rather than risk him getting killed by Miko if he gets back up.

    ROUND SIX:
    • Haley tumbles around the horse to get into a flanking position on Miko, pissed that Elan is hurt. But she can't hit Miko's AC.
    • Belkar is down.
    • Miko takes Haley down to -7 with two attacks, leaving three more to hit Roy with.
    • Elan is down.
    • V is down.
    • Roy is mad and strikes at Miko with full Power Attack to try to end this now, but hits only once. Miko is pretty hurt nonetheless.
    • Durkon stabilizes Haley with a Cure Light Wounds.

    ROUND SEVEN:
    • Haley is down.
    • Belkar is down.
    • Miko full attacks Roy, hitting 4 out of 5 times. Roy is pretty hurt.
    • Elan is down.
    • V is down.
    • Roy realizes that he MIGHT take Miko down if he full attacks, but if he fails, she will likely take him out next and then kill the Order. He grudgingly surrenders.
    • Combat is over.

    Miko then chains Roy and the others. Because Durkon only healed, and she trusts him more, she lets him stay free. Durkon uses Cure Minor Wounds to get V, Elan, and Haley walking again. Miko casts CLW on herself and Windstriker and off they go.
    Rich Burlew



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  10. - Top - End - #490
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kaerou's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    She suprised attacked them while they were unarmed..? ex-paladin! ;D

    Only kidding.. funny stuff. I like the railroad plot comment, thats so true!

  11. - Top - End - #491
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Wow... that's a lot more detail than I ever expected you to provide. Thanks!

    ... incidentally, weren't we going to stop posting in this thread and start having a new thread for each comic?

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    LoL.

    Not only a great comic, but then I get here to see a huge post about just how Miko kicked some OotS butt. Veerryyy niicee ;D
    The Giant Wrote: I bend the rules when it makes it funny. Accept.

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  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant
    • Vaarsuvius would be next, but s/he's down.
    • Vaarsuvius unleashes his/her most deadly spell, Disintegrate. Of course, there's a -4 to hit because

    • Miko goes nuts on V, critical hitting him with her katana and knocking him to -1 in one shot. She unleashes the rest of her full attack on Elan, knocking him to -8 too.
    "Hir routine" getting boring, or a secret slip about what the G believes the V to B.. er, be? ;)
    The Giant Wrote: I bend the rules when it makes it funny. Accept.

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  14. - Top - End - #494
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    This has been bugging me for awhile. Where exactly did Roy get his Greatclub from? Haley complained in one strip that he was useless without a weapon, then a few strips later he has the club. Did I miss something?
    Why is abbreviation such a long word?

  15. - Top - End - #495
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Hm, well, how hard is it to find a big stick?

  16. - Top - End - #496
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    True enough...just wondered if I'd missed a panel where he picked it up, or broke a branch off a tree or something.
    Why is abbreviation such a long word?

  17. - Top - End - #497
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Is it just me or did the Giant just say that Belkar had 12HD hence was 12th level. We finally know :)

  18. - Top - End - #498
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Yeah, it's an estimation. I don't live and die by it.
    Rich Burlew



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  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Wow, that was pretty revealing. V was referred to as him at least twice and theres no longer any debate about Belkar's alignment.

  20. - Top - End - #500
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleran
    Wow, that was pretty revealing. V was referred to as him at least twice and theres no longer any debate about Belkar's alignment.
    Not that its a surprise that he is evil.
    \"Get in, do the job, get out. If they\'re lucky, they won\'t know I\'m there. If not, they\'ll wish I wasn\'t.\"

  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Belkar said himself he is chaotic, and there was never any doubt that he wasn't good; "You guys go ahead i'll just harvest this guys kidneys..."
    I haven't doubted his alignment for a looooong time!

  22. - Top - End - #502
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleran
    theres no longer any debate about Belkar's alignment.
    What comic are you people reading? When has there ever been any confusion on the point? Seriously, folks, Belkar is EVIL. Accept it.
    Rich Burlew



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  23. - Top - End - #503
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Well, I was always in the evil camp myself, but there are plenty of people on the boards (see the discussions) who think he's neutral. Also, I guess the argument could be made that many people believe its acceptable to refer to someone of unknown gender as "him."

  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Xiander's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    I don't get it!! why are people so itent on ruining the thing that gives the Elf much of his character value!?
    I mean if V wasn't ambigyneous we would just have a clichι elf mage, as it is now we have an almost endless source of humor!

  25. - Top - End - #505
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    That is completly true,thats what is cool about the character,well that and the way he/she speaks *:P
    \"Get in, do the job, get out. If they\'re lucky, they won\'t know I\'m there. If not, they\'ll wish I wasn\'t.\"

  26. - Top - End - #506
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brasswatchman
    Actually, this comic touches a lot on what I don't like about the way paladins are usually played. Seriously. Why does a paladin have to monitor the behavior of the rest of the group? Why can't he or she just attend to her own behavior, and try and set a good example for the rest?
    (Counter-argument: Why does the rest of the group always have to be various forms of scoundrel? ;) )

    Actually, this is what bugs me most about Miko--not so much that the character has her annoying flaws (which have been discussed to death on the forums), or that her character is a stereotype for how the class is often played (the same could be said of Haley's greed--stealing from her own party...). Rather, it's that the people who play paladins like Miko have caused some people to think that that's the only way a paladin can be played. The fact that Miko reinforces this is what bothers me most about her, rather than her interaction with the party per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draedan
    The only way I could POSSIBLY see this happening is if Durkon not only refused to fight Miko, but helped her as well...and really only one in a thousand. I don’t even see how she could take any TWO on her own.

    She either has quite a few more levels then them or this is Rich's version of the DM just saying "you get beat down and drug along in chains".
    Rich has a fairly lengthy post on this that makes a lot of sense. It's also entirely possible (although not strictly necessary) that Miko has a few levels on the OotS--look at the "Class and Level Geekery" thread for more. But regardless, I'd point out that she already has taken two of them on her own--fairly easily, in fact. Granted, the rest of the party was impaired in various ways, but Roy and Belkar still got trounced.


    Also, it took Miko nearly 80 strips to reach them, and it's been nearly 50 since then...I wonder if any other sidequests are between them and Lord Shojo. (Although given their current situation, I'd think Miko would want a quick end to the journey more than ever...and if it is indeed a "railroad plot," then that might just happen.)
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, &&for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

  27. - Top - End - #507
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    It seems that Roy was missing a lot...apparently his great club fails to take advantage of his weapon specialization (which he does have). He really needs a sword.

  28. - Top - End - #508
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by humanpylon
    This has been bugging me for awhile. *Where exactly did Roy get his Greatclub from? *Haley complained in one strip that he was useless without *a weapon, then a few strips later he has the club. *Did I miss something?

    You want a greatclub? I can get you a greatclub, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me.
    PICONJO pwns j00!http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/256341
    PICONJO <3s j00!http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/274154
    PICONJO is > than j00!http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/274379

    btw PICONJO died for j00r sins ^_^

  29. - Top - End - #509
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Ye Gods, what a comic!
    Roy is so right in his rant, and I love the fact that you don't need to understand how haley is speaking to know what she means.

    and Miko's one tough lady! W00t :D
    (I don't like her, but I've got to respect her!)
    The Red Army

  30. - Top - End - #510
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: November II

    Quote Originally Posted by Duraska

    There's nothing inherently wrong with that. I think it's pretty natural. However, a rational view on the situation would be: Your father committed the crime, now he has to deal with the consequences.
    I think it depends on the crime. Some things are punished way too harshly, and some things shouldn't be illegal at all. This is the root of my disagreement with lawfulness...it is only humans who create and enforce the law, therefore it is fallible, therefore why should one show unconditional deference to a fallible thing?

    Also, perhaps now we're just quibbling over words, but I don't like how people use the word &quot;consequences&quot; in this context. When I think of consequences, I think of touching a hot stove. The stove isn't trying to punish you for touching it. When human agents use their free will to inflict their will upon humans like Miko did in 251, I'd call it punishment. To call it consequences, seems to me, like a disingenuous way to dance around the &quot;consequences&quot; of their own actions.
    \"All that I have ever loved in life has been lost to me forever. Never again shall I give into the delusion of love, for all that I love is anathema. All that remains of me is an image of a young girl not yet lost, for the power of Velsharoon is the power of eternal youth.\" &&&&- Kadislan the White

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