Proficiencies as a skill?

[hamstard4ever]

The system of proficiency feats for weapons and armor don't really cut it for me. Martial Weapon Proficiency is a joke, and Exotic Weapon Proficiency isn't much better in most cases. Same thing with shield/armor proficiencies, except arguably worse since most classes that lack armor proficiency lose their class features when wearing heavier types of armor.

So, rather than trying to figure out a way to make all these into more viable feat options, I figured: what about replacing them with a skill instead? The idea is you'd have a catch-all Arms Proficiency skill which would work similar to Speak Language.

• Buying 1 full rank in Arms Proficiency gives you proficiency with 1 martial weapon of your choice, with shields or with light armor; upgrades light armor proficiency to medium armor proficiency or medium to heavy; or upgrades shield proficiency to include tower shields
• Anyone with at least 1 point of Arms Proficiency is proficient with all simple weapons
• Arms proficiency is a class skill for all full BAB classes, cross-class for everyone else (adjust to taste)
• You do not gain any weapon or armor proficiencies from multiclassing, but at first level you still gain all the guaranteed proficiencies of your starting class without having to spend skill points.
• Prestige class prerequisites of "Proficiency with all martial weapons" are amended to "Proficiency with at least 5 martial weapons"

The main thing I haven't figured out is how to handle exotic weapons. In the interests of keeping things simple I would prefer to stick to a flat cost of 1 skill point for everything, but no one would ever spend a skill point on proficiency with a martial weapon if there exists an exotic weapon that's strictly superior. My thought here is currently leaning towards simply throwing out most of the "just like a martial weapon but 1 die size higher" type exotic weapons and putting the rest of them on parity with martial weapons (a few like spiked chain would probably need some additional tweaking).

So... comments? I know it's technically a power boost for classes like, say, wizards. But at low levels they're limited enough that I'm not going to begrudge them easy access to martial weapons, and at high levels... well, honestly, when there's a 17th level wizard teleporting all over the place demolishing reality left and right, does anybody actually care if he has a sword?

[Magnor Criol]

Well, currently you have each skill point in the skill representing that character training in one specific weapon. (Except for the first skill point which counts for all simple weapons, but that's not the point.) They're essentially saying that they're choosing to spend the training and study that each skill point represents into training with that given weapon, right?

So I see no reason why the same shouldn't apply for both martial and exotic weapons. Most of the exotic weapons are exotic more because they're unusual or uncommon, not because they're exceedingly difficult to wield.

If you'd feel happier with exotics taking training than martials, then make them take two skill points. That's not really unreasonable either.

I like the idea of this system; the feat-proficiency system always bothered me a little too. I'm not positive that this is the best solution to the problem; but it's better than the existing system.

[Warlord JK]

We could make it where you learn all the simple weapon profiecies if u spend one skill point on it, one martial wepon proficieny per skill point, and it costs two skill points for exotic wepon proficiencies, just to make it fair.

[brian c]

If you do this, you need to increase the number of skill points given to most martial characters; 2+Int for a fighter isn't very much if he has to spend some to wield his weapons.

An idea that I've been throwing around in my mind is to have a system like this, but you can put more skillpoints into a weapon to get increased attack bonus or damage with that weapon, replacing the Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization line of feats.

[hamstard4ever]

Fighters still get the same proficiencies as before; it's just that characters who multiclass don't gain additional proficiencies. The idea is to make it comparable to the skill point multiplier at 1st level: a multiclass fighter/rogue can start as a rogue and get 18 extra skill points, or they can start as a fighter and get tons of extra proficiencies. (The fighter also typically gets more out of the standard "max HP roll at level 1" rule, too, but generally the preference seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of starting as a rogue if possible for the extra skill points so I figured fighters could use a boost there.)

So I see no reason why the same shouldn't apply for both martial and exotic weapons. Most of the exotic weapons are exotic more because they're unusual or uncommon, not because they're exceedingly difficult to wield.

It's not so much an issue with the exotic weapons available in core, but a lot of splatbook exotic weapons are straight upgraded versions of martial weapons. Why would anyone spend a skill point or two picking up glaive proficiency when you can get proficiency in the wholly superior exotic heavy poleaxe from Complete Warrior instead? The double weapons are even worse--proficiency in a longsword + shortsword combo takes up to 2 ranks in the skill for a 1d8/1d6 combo, whereas proficiency with the two-bladed sword would take only 1 rank and would get you 1d8/1d8.

Of course, there's no compelling reason for either the "upgraded martial weapon" type exotics or practically any of the double weapons to exist, so like I said I think the solution is probably to throw them out and say the remaining exotics cost the same as martial weapons. Then the distinction between martial and exotic would exist only as a shorthand for defining starting weapon proficiencies.

[Charlie Kemek]

this is a really good idea, i haven't been satisfied either with them. just make a few adjustments.
all the classes w/ good bab get 6-8 (dm opinion) plus int mod/bab out of 4 at first level for weapons.
all the classes w/ average bab get 4-6 plus int mod/bab 1st level
classes w/ bad get 2-4 plus int/ bab out of 4
the skill should get plus str or dex or int.
bonuses if take more skill points in a weapon (like weapon focus)

[brian c]

this is a really good idea, i haven't been satisfied either with them. just make a few adjustments.
all the classes w/ good bab get 6-8 (dm opinion) plus int mod/bab out of 4 at first level for weapons.
all the classes w/ average bab get 4-6 plus int mod/bab 1st level
classes w/ bad get 2-4 plus int/ bab out of 4
the skill should get plus str or dex or int.
bonuses if take more skill points in a weapon (like weapon focus)

Hm... what if Attack is a skill, with different things like Attack(shortsword) or Attack(longbow) or Attack(spiked chain)? It would replace BAB altogether; every class would get more skill points, the amount depending on if ... actually, I have too much to say here, I'm gonna start a new thread with my ideas on this topic.

[hamstard4ever]

At one point I did toy with the idea of having a system of "proficiency points" which would replace both proficiency and Weapon Focus feats, as a new character feature separate from skill points, but in the interests of simplicity I tend to prefer the idea of folding it into the skill system. But personally I shy away from the idea of skills giving too many direct combat bonuses, so I left the idea of focus/specialization out of it.