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Thread: Eragon

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    Default Eragon

    So, I checked this out from the local library last night. I had heard really bad things about this movie, but I found it wasn't that bad.

    I may be slightly biased due to Aramis and Athos being in the movie, but I liked it. Certainly not any worse than when my family dragged me along to see that "Harry Potter" movie. Which also wan't as bad as I thought it would be.

    Neither film particularly inspired me to go out and buy the books, but I'm somewhat picky in terms of the fiction I read, as reading a novel is a much larger investment of time that watching a film, and I can't read a novel while working on my maille.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    The main problem is, this is time you could have used to go out and rent the original cut of the Star Wars trilogy, and get the same thing only with added 70's kitsch.

    Actually, I haven't seen the movie, though I started the book. Perhaps I shouldn't bash it since I didn't finish it, but then again maybe I should bash it because I couldn't muster up the interest to finish it.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    Eragon gets alot of flak for seeming to be inspired (normally read 'rip off') of Dragonriders of Pern, Star Wars, and Lord of the Rings. People site the 'obvious' lack of literary sophistication in the book to show that the author was inexperienced and it is a juvinile peice with thin plots and no real substance...a rehashing of known mythology/stories and poorly done.

    personally, i think some of the bashing is a bit of crap. After reading Eragon, it did strike me as the work of a very young and inexperienced writer. There didn't seem to be much depth and all seemed pretty bland/obvious. But then again, I am an avid fantasy/DnD buff and it really is hard to suprise me in any story, especially if it is fantasy/sci-fi. There are some actual 'literary' problems with the first book...but only if you are an english major...or do ALOT of writing...most people don't even notice it.

    The main beef alot of people have with it is that it seems alot like other works and appears to be inspired/following/ripping off 'insert fantasy series here'. Is it possible he was inspired by such works...absolutely...did he mean to use some of those themes ideas...maybe...so what? It is like the South Park episode where Butters as Commander Chaos tries to think up a unique punishment for the other boys and keeps finding out that the Simpson's already did it. Well...fantasy has been around for a very long time...it has ALL already been done. All manner of stories have already been done...even several 'classical' stories have roots in old legend/myth/bible/whatever.

    Most 'strong man' heroes try to emulate Hercules...and Hercules is arguably just a greek version of Gilgamesh from ancient babylon. Even Batman has roots in heroes liek Odyssius who solved his problems through fast thinking and trickery and while posessing great strength, is but a man. Star Wars is the old tale of the comming of age. Leaving home, trial, growth, and then hero...this has repeated over years through countless tales.

    It isn't exactly fair to just compare Eragon to other works and say, well it's been done and this is just a copy...of course it has been done...just about everything has...but how does the author do it this time? And more importantly...is it a good story? In DnD, an adventure is only as good as the story...all the classes are the same, all the monsters are the same...but who, why, what events...what is the path of it all? There can be many paintings of the sunset at sea...but people keep painting or photographing it...cause each time they catch something different then it is something worth looking at. And even if it is the same as other pictures in essence, maybe there is also somehting special about that one too. Like a good game that has a sequal which is the same but with slightly different levels...well...if you liked one, you'll like the other...just don't expect too much to be different.

    Eragon is like that. Book 1 is the classic comming of age story set in a fantasy realm. Fantasy typically means Elves, Dwarves, and dragons...along with one or two evil races...in this case, we get Urguls and the Raz'zac. Mages are also around of course...and they are powerful...like all mages are. The actual plot of book 1 is very simplistic and straight forward comming of age 'special boy'/hero story...boy leaves home after tragedy to fight/revenge, gets tutored, has travel and adventure, meets friends, meets/recues a girl, mentor always dies (damn mentors), ends the book the hero of the day. It is a tale that has been told in countless books/movies. Even though it is simple in this one, and very straightforward with pretty much no real guessing at who is who or what is what...I liked the book. A classic tale done well. I was entertained...could it have been better...probably.

    Book II: Eldest...now that is the middle of the hero's journey. In a tale that is designed in 3 parts, there is the initial training into the young hero...then the 2nd stage where the twists are revealed, more training typically makes the young hero even more powerful and then of course...all the twists/development and training must come to a head in a final climactic moment...thus is Eldest. The twists are typical, but still more or less unexpected (you'll always have a sneaking suspicion that it is goign that way but it still hits you and you go...he acually did it...son of a bitch...).

    Book III&IV: these will continue the tale into the final chapter...the rise to become the equal of the enemy and the final desparate battle to save the land while everything teeters on the brink of oblivion. Sometimes the hero still isn't as powerful as the big bad, and only through the redemption of some of the evil guys followers and their aid/betrayal win the day (see Vader throwing the Emporer into the reactor of the Death Star)...or they are tricked and destroyed by their own evil/doomsday machine/whatever...

    I like the series so far. The movie could have been much better though probably...very good effects and some decent acting...but the book didn't exactly translate very well scriptwise...especailly when it came to length/pacing.

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    Default Re: Eragon

    As a fan of David and Leigh Eddings from way back, I feel that I can tell the difference between a knockoff with no literary merit and a proper retelling of an archetypal story. Eragon was not the latter. (Neither, by the way, are the Eddings' books from the middle of the Tamuli on. Just throwing that out to make sure you know I'm not fanboying here, but drawing a comparison between two authors that have received similar criticism.)

    I'm under no illusions that there's any such thing as an original plot nowadays. It's possible to write an original work in spite of this through skilled writing of scenarios, characters, dialog, or what have you. Paolini did not do so. His work is bland and filled with rookie writer mistakes. It's okay because he was like 17, and it's quality work compared to most 17-year-olds (I'm looking at you, fanfiction.net). It's just got nothing that makes it worth reading.

    I guess this is really off-topic considering this thread's about the movie, but it's probably worth stating for background information.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    Well, the film had nothing to do with the book itself. I found it extremely bad while i did enjoyed the book, not the best but not a bad one. I believe the
    2nd book(Eldest) was better.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    Don't base the Harry Potter books on the movies. When you've got a several hundred page book adapted into a two hour movie, things are going to get cut. A lot of things. The movies aren't all that good at capturing the real spirit of the books- it's difficult to accurately explain, but they're much different and much better than the movies. To me, there's a reason the books are that popular, and it's a damn good one.

    Regarding Eragon- I liked the first book well enough. I'm not too good at detecting ripoffs, so I missed the Star Wars part. I did, however, understand that his universe basically consists of "Middle Earth with Dragons!". I've got a sneaking suspicion that Brom was based off of Belgarath, but I've got no proof of that. It was a half-decent story, and the concept of dragons, which I hadn't seen before (Never read Dragonriders of Pern), I enjoyed.

    Then the second book came out and it dissolved into fanboyism. Perhaps I judged it a bit harshly because it came out around the same time as Half-Blood Prince, which was a very good book and so I compared Eldest unfavorably, but still, any scene with Eragon descended very rapidly into fanboyism. Especially that battle scene. I don't like that sort of epic-level battling- I prefer it up close, personal, and gritty. It was so irritatingly overpowered, it wasn't funny. I'll probably read the third book, but I really won't care very much.

    Nerd-O-Rama- complete agreement on Eddings/your opinion on when his writing broke down.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    First, a disclaimer: I haven't read the book. I picked up the first page, groaned, and put it away. I just had read too much bashing to take it seriously. Still, Paolini reputedly stole a whole scene from one of Eddings's books, so maybe I should read it.

    I have seen the film, however, and I must say I enjoyed watching it. Unfortunately for the makers, it was for all the wrong reasons. The film was riddled with hilariously bad one-liners, equally horrendous dialogue, fridge logic inducing twists, clichés, and downright silly scenes.

    For example, just how did Murtagh keep up with Saphira? Why does the evil overlord live in a cave? Who did the editing in the scene where Eragon throws his sword at Durza? (Seriously?) Why didn't the prop designers and the folks at ILM communicate when designing Saphira's armour? Just what kind of cloud did Saphira fly through, anyway? What the devil did the make-up guys think when doing Robert Carlyle's face? Why does Eragon let Murtagh get thrown in jail after he's saved his life at least twice? Why is La Resistance's hideout in a cave behind the waterfall? And so on, and so on.

    Me and my friend cracked up at one point when Malkovich delivered a line in a particularly lifeless voice, because he sounded just like a voice synthetisator. After the film, I couldn't stop laughing when I thought how Eragon threw his sword at Durza just to see it slapped aside, and then shot him in the face after the shmuck stopped to ask if that was the best he could do. And then Durza just faded away.

    Yeah, I think I should get a few bottles of beer, a friend or two and watch this again. Should prove amusing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    It's okay because he was like 17, and it's quality work compared to most 17-year-olds (I'm looking at you, fanfiction.net).
    Actually, he was 19 by the time he finished.
    Last edited by Attilargh; 2007-12-14 at 10:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Juan View Post
    The main beef alot of people have with it is that it seems alot like other works and appears to be inspired/following/ripping off 'insert fantasy series here'. Is it possible he was inspired by such works...absolutely...did he mean to use some of those themes ideas...maybe...so what? It is like the South Park episode where Butters as Commander Chaos tries to think up a unique punishment for the other boys and keeps finding out that the Simpson's already did it. Well...fantasy has been around for a very long time...it has ALL already been done. All manner of stories have already been done...even several 'classical' stories have roots in old legend/myth/bible/whatever.
    Tolkien almighty, not this again. Yes, all the tropes are old ones. The plot details aren't. Take, for instance, Hercules and Gilgamesh, which you mentioned in your post. Certainly they have certain archetypal features in common, but does Gilgamesh go into the underworld to capture a three-headed guard dog? Does Hercules become wiser after recognising the futility of avoiding death?

    Here, though, you will find a plot summary of FIVE HUNDRED WORDS that applies to both Star Wars and Eragon. That's not reusing the archetypes. That's copying the details.

    Fantasy typically means Elves, Dwarves, and dragons...along with one or two evil races...in this case, we get Urguls and the Raz'zac. Mages are also around of course...and they are powerful...like all mages are.
    Grow an imagination. There's lots of great, original fantasy out there that doesn't involve elves, dwarves or dragons in the slightest, and in which the mages aren't always powerful. As for evil races, that's a recognised cliche that good writers deliberately avoid.

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    The really annoying thing about Eragon is that about 90% of the characters, places, organizations, events, and anything else have a Star Wars equivalent. Eragon is clearly Luke. The Empire is, well, the Empire. Garrow represents Luke's uncle and aunt. Brom is Obi-Wan (he even dies). The Varden is the Rebel Alliance. Oromis is Yoda. The raz'zac are the stormtroopers that killed Luke's uncle and nephew. That's just the characters. If I moved onto the plot then I could type all day. Eragon is bordering on plagerism.
    Last edited by DraPrime; 2007-12-14 at 10:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    The really annoying thing about Eragon is that about 90% of the characters, places, organizations, events, and anything else have a Star Wars equivalent. Eragon is clearly Luke. The Empire is, well, the Empire. Garrow represents Luke's uncle and aunt. Brom is Obi-Wan (he even dies). The Varden is the Rebel Alliance. Oromis is Yoda. The raz'zac are the stormtroopers that killed Luke's uncle and nephew. That's just the characters. If I moved onto the plot then I could type all day. Eragon is bordering on plagerism.
    Eragon deserves no worse a rap than the countless other books and movies that have followed this example, even those pre-dating Star Wars. I read the book, liked it alright, despite glaring similarities with other authors. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery, right? The movie was fun. Not good. It was fun. Maybe I wasn't sitting there trying my damndest to pick it apart at the seams, but eh. I'd seen worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Norbert View Post

    Here, though, you will find a plot summary of FIVE HUNDRED WORDS that applies to both Star Wars and Eragon. That's not reusing the archetypes. That's copying the details.
    That article was cleverly written and quite interesting. The summary it features placed the final "DON'T" boulder on my intention of reading Eragon though.

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    Default Re: Eragon

    This has been done to death, does my option even matter any more?


    Ah Eragon
    "The writing was okay, I guess. But I couldn't take it anymore after Harry returned from his first run-in with the Dementors to find the Ring Wraiths had burned the Lars Homestead."
    I highly disliked the writering
    I hated the characters, Eragon is a mary sue, the best at everything, a boring may character, and apperently a sociopath as show here, credit goes to the Epistler

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    Eragon Shadeslayer: Ye Olde Faux-Medieval Sociopath



    Mary Sues are quite common in both original fiction and fanfiction. However, Eragon also bears the less common distinction of apparently suffering from antisocial personality disorder. The Epistler did a little research and uncovered the most common traits of sociopathy, which are as follows:



    1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviours as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest. This may seem a little shaky at first. The Epistler had difficultly analysing it, since it would appear that, in fact, Eragon is perfectly law-abiding and has never been arrested.

    But after pondering on it for some weeks, the Epistler suddenly had a revelation. Eragon is a criminal of the first order – he’s a member of the rebel army, guilty of repeated acts of high treason against the ruler of Alagaësia, not to mention disturbing the peace, ignoring a peace offering, using dishonourable tactics in battle, breaking out of prison and freeing a known supporter of the rebels who was guilty of smuggling stolen goods.

    Yes, Galbatorix is ‘the bad guy’. But he’s still the King, and legally speaking he has authority over everyone who lives in Alagaësia – including our righteous hero. Eragon grew up under his rule, and by all accounts had a fairly peaceful childhood. The Empire did not harass him or his family, he had enough to eat and a roof over his head – from all we’ve seen so far, the most evil thing Galbatorix has done is (gasp!) make people pay taxes. But we must remember that the much-maligned King is trying to fight a war against the Varden, and that wars are expensive. The fact that he got his throne through violent rebellion does not change the fact that he is the King and Eragon is his subject. If one looks at it from an unbiased perspective, the Varden are nothing more than a group of terrorists. The Epistler urges his readers to consider this. If the Varden did not exist, there would be no war. The Empire’s citizens would be able to live peacefully, and there would be no armies wreaking destruction on the landscape. War profits no-one – once the Varden wins (there is no doubt whatsoever that they will), they will place their own candidate on the throne and so will begin a new Empire, which will have no essential difference whatsoever from the previous one. It will still be a dictatorship, it will still have been placed there by bloody and violent rebellion, and the common people will still have to pay taxes.

    Eragon, of course, is completely unaware of any of this. However, by this logic, once the glamour and black-and-white morality has been stripped away, we can see that he is, at bottom, a criminal. The Varden stole Saphira’s egg from the King, probably murdering a few people in the process. Once Eragon found it and became a rider, his duty should have been to pledge himself to the Empire and use his newfound power responsibly. However, since the King is just so evil (we shall ignore the fact that Kings generally rule Kingdoms and that Empires have Emperors), he does not do this. Instead he joins the Varden, and during the course of both Eragon and Eldest he commits numerous criminal and terrorist acts, without showing the slightest trace of remorse. He kills Imperial soldiers – men who were merely doing their duty – destroys property, lies and steals, refuses all offers of clemency, and in general does his best to create chaos wherever he goes. And we know perfectly well that he will not at any point be brought to book for any of this, because God – otherwise known as Paolini – loves him too much for that to happen.

    2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure. Eragon is a poor liar, but is one of the most self-centred individuals the Epistler has ever had the displeasure of reading about. Consider this… has he at any point achieved anything notable during the course of either book, on his own?

    ….not really. He escapes from prison only because Murtagh and Saphira help him. He makes it to the Varden because of them and Brom. He only kills Durza because of Saphira and Arya’s intervention – without them he would have been killed. Not a single one of his ‘heroic’ exploits succeeded because of his own cleverness, strength or daring. Eragon is a pathetic child who calls himself a grown man yet needs someone to hold his hand every step of the way. He takes no pride in doing anything himself.

    And yet he never appears to notice this. He takes his friends absolutely for granted, expecting them to wait on his every command and indulge the childish tantrums which invariably take place whenever someone does not rush to help him at every turn. He is also utterly ungrateful – witness his ‘grudging’ thanks to Brom after the aforesaid makes him a saddle, his constant whining to Saphira, his outright rudeness to Oromis, his pathetic bewilderment and emotional blackmail when Arya rebuffs his sickly-sweet romantic approaches, the hysterical abuse he throws at the already much-abused Murtagh, his brother and apparent whipping-boy, his sulky rage over Vanir’s refusal to kowtow to him, and his generally condescending and overbearing behaviour toward every other character in the book. The Epistler admits that Eragon does not lie or deceive to get his way – but he does not have to.

    Eragon is a spoilt brat wearing a hero’s armour and carrying a sword. He treats every other character in the book like his personal entourage, and yet accepts the respect he gets as if it is his due. Is it any wonder, therefore, that the Epistler is rooting for the Empire to win?



    3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead. This is no contest. Even other characters remark on Eragon’s rashness and stupidity. He constantly rushes into things without a second thought (only to be miraculously saved every time, but this is beside the point). This trait is probably supposed to be endearing – our hero is meant to be a hot-headed but courageous lad who has a lot to learn… blah blah blah. The Epistler has a better way of putting it: he’s a moron.



    4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults. On numerous occasions in the books, Eragon has temper tantrums, usually over something trivial. It is a little unfair to add that he constantly fights and kills people as a solution to his problems (i.e. he would rather not work for the nasty ol’ King), given that he is a fantasy character and that is what fantasy characters do… but the Epistler used up all his charity a very long time ago.



    5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others. This has already been covered more or less in point 2, but the Epistler will recap. Eragon is constantly putting himself and other people in danger, usually because he is too stupid to think about anything for more than two minutes together. He is extremely reckless, and this cannot be overlooked given that he lives in a world where danger is ever-present and real, and the consequences are, frequently, death (or, at least, they would be if Paolini knew anything about a little thing called ‘realism’. Let us interpret it the way he apparently wished us to)



    6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honour financial obligations. If you will indulge the Epistler for a moment… he just had an hilarious mental image of Eragon trying to obtain a job at McDonald’s.

    To return to the topic at hand, Eragon is indeed irresponsible. In spite of the fact that everybody is relying upon him, he constantly does stupid and irresponsible things which get himself and other people into trouble; his apparent inability to think ahead only compounds the felony.



    7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another. Now this is the real killer. One day, perhaps, in the far distant future, some deranged person will go through the trilogy-to-be and make a tally of all the people Eragon kills, but for now it is safe to estimate that it stands at at least a hundred.

    Now… in Eldest, when Eragon’s cousin Roran is forced to begin fighting and killing people, he keeps a mental count of all his victims and angsts about it. It is lame and unconvincing, but at least in this case Paolini made an attempt at showing some realism – Roran is shocked by the fact that he has killed people. Eragon, however, has no such reservations. At no point in either book does he truly feel remorse for anything, even something as heinous as killing another living soul. In Eragon, when he first kills a group of urgals, he has no reaction beyond (to quote Ivy), “OMG I gotz magick??!!”. He pats himself on the back for having discovered his magical abilities, but doesn’t pause for a second to consider the fact that he has just become a killer. Yes, the victims were evil, beastly urgals, but they were still, technically, people. And yet Eragon feels nothing at having killed them. Later on he kills human beings with a similar lack of reaction or human feeling. Where is the disgust? Where is the guilt? Where is the horror? He acts like a robot. In the, uh, glorious final battle of Eldest, he uses the uber-speshul magical death words (the Epistler has a name for these: cheap cop-out) to instantly kill dozens of Imperial troops, and his only real thought is ‘geez, this is just too easy’. And this is after he’s been told that there is no life after death and that this life is all anyone gets.

    …Does anyone else see the internal contradiction here, or is the Epistler hallucinating?

    This is not all. After Murtagh ‘dies’ at the beginning of the book, Eragon feels (or rather, thinks) sad for exactly a paragraph, and then forgets about him for the rest of the book. When he reappears at the end and reveals that he is now working for the Empire, Eragon screeches at him about how he was ‘mourning’ for him (liar), and goes on to be a complete ******* toward him – taunting him about the scar he got from his violent father, and continuing to hurl abuse at him after it is already clear that he has been coerced into his current position and is now more of a victim than ever. Once the fight is over (and Eragon has been soundly defeated, much to the reader’s pleasure – this reader, at any rate), he continues to feel sorry for himself and barely spares a thought for Murtagh at all – after he has discovered that they are brothers, no less.

    There are even more examples to be had of Eragon’s selfishness and lack of remorse. Elva is an excellent one. When he discovers that he unintentionally cursed the child instead of blessing her, he is dismayed for approximately one minute before he moves on to other things and forgets all about the matter. He suffers from no lingering guilt or anxiety whatsoever, and when he finally meets his victim face-to-face, he briefly apologises and promises to try and remove the curse before he wanders off and forgets about her again for the rest of the book. Somehow, the Epistler is not taken in by this display of remorse.

    Strangely, however, he goes to pieces over having killed a few rabbits.



    The diagnosis is now complete: Eragon is a sociopath. He fulfils every single one of the criteria. As a bonus, he also displays a few of the symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, namely:

    1. A grandiose sense of self-importance

    2. Requires excessive admiration

    3. Strong sense of entitlement

    4. Takes advantage of other people

    5. Lacks empathy (again)

    8. Arrogant affect (he accepts being the Last Hope of pretty much everything with scarcely a pause. One would expect some feelings of self-doubt or at the very least embarrassment, but apparently Paolini thinks otherwise)



    From the accounts he has read, it would seem that narcissists, far from actually being special, have very little personality to call their own. Instead, they create a false personality from bits and pieces of the personalities of other people whom they regarded as an authority. They adopt other people’s tastes and opinions as if they were their own, they have sterile inner lives and resent having to do anything for themselves, and they don’t talk about their feelings…

    …does this sound at all familiar?

    Eragon is a blank slate of a character. He never thinks for himself. Instead he mindlessly repeats things which other people have said, has no real opinions or beliefs of his own – he has no individuality. Everything he is is a quotation of some sort; he becomes a vegetarian atheist like Oromis with little or no resistance, and never shows any resentment over the fact that he is being changed by powers outside of his control. Narcissists also show an inability to change as a person based on their experiences, which, again, is true for Eragon. He begins as a selfish, immature brat, and stays that way right to the end of Eldest, in spite of all the huge changes that have taken place in his life. His view of the world changes not one iota.

    (For more information about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, see www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/howto.html)



    The Epistler does not pretend to be a qualified psychologist, but it is easy to see from this that Eragon has some serious issues. He is a Gary Stu of the first order, with Sociopathic and Narcissistic Personality Disorder thrown in as a bonus.

    What is even more hilarious about this is that Paolini almost certainly does not know it. The Epistler will refrain from making cruel comments about how author and protagonist may have a lot in common – he has no right to say such things, and nor does anyone else who does not know Paolini personally.

    However, the Epistler feels he is able to safely say that it is unlikely that Paolini put as much thought into his works as went into a single one of the Epistles written thus far. He speaks of ‘searching introspection’ as if he were a literary mastermind, but there is no way he can have applied much of it to the works that have made him so wealthy and famous. If he had done so, he surely would have realised that his beloved hero has a mental disorder and urgently needs psychological attention. Meanwhile those who read his books must suffer through an endless string of Eragon whining, Eragon throwing tantrums like a four year old, Eragon magically getting stronger without doing any work, Eragon being praised to the skies by a bunch of yes-men other characters, and Eragon doing stupid and irresponsible things and getting away with it without so much as a slap on the wrist.

    …and this is the character whose name is currently being shouted from the rooftops and whose exploits have made his creator a hero to children all around the world.



    There will be no further Epistles. The Epistler is now going to seek out a good exorcist to help him commit suicide. Fare thee well, readers.
    credits to the Epistles, he does infact come back from the dead


    He also meets up with Arya, his Faux Action girl, Brom, the mentor knock off, meets the Murtagh the anti hero, who's father is the dragon

    who later does a face heel turn
    . The hero then goes on his many adventures with his dragon fighting the evil empire , which by the way, i don't really understand why it is evil

    However, what annoys me most is how black and white the story is, how bad the characters are and the issues with stealing the plot


    In case you haven't read the book, here is a brief description of Book 1
    and book 2
    I feel so obsalite, now, what is my option worth
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    EE
    Last edited by EvilElitest; 2008-05-04 at 06:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Eragon

    Did you really need to quote that whole massive thing? I approve of the TVTropes overdose, though.

    Premsyl: We're not concerned that Eragon is unoriginal. We're concerned that it is more derivative than simply being a similar story merits, and on top of that just plain badly written.
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    I find it funny that the same people who bash Eragon's somewhat childish and hackish literary content, are the same ones who praise Weis and Hickman's equally lowly DragonLance series... like it wasn't equally a pile of poorly written tripe.

    However, I read the Dragonlance books.. and the currently released Eragon books. I didnt expect mastery from them, just a quick & entertaining fantasy read. And that's what I got. Like watching an entertaining B movie or something. It's all in expectations really, I wasn't disappointed.
    Last edited by Daze; 2007-12-14 at 07:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    I have not read Eragon. I have read one of the poems from the book. I could not, if I tried, write poetry that bad. As in, I seriously have tried to write really bad poetry, and it wasn't that bad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Daze View Post
    I find it funny that the same people who bash Eragon's somewhat childish and hackish literary content, are the same ones who praise Weis and Hickman's equally lowly DragonLance series... like it wasn't equally a pile of poorly written tripe.
    *raises hand* I don't like any of them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    *raises hand* I don't like any of them!
    Heh... ok, sorry man ;)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Daze View Post
    I find it funny that the same people who bash Eragon's somewhat childish and hackish literary content, are the same ones who praise Weis and Hickman's equally lowly DragonLance series... like it wasn't equally a pile of poorly written tripe.

    However, I read the Dragonlance books.. and the currently released Eragon books. I didnt expect mastery from them, just a quick & entertaining fantasy read. And that's what I got. Like watching an entertaining B movie or something. It's all in expectations really, I wasn't disappointed.
    when did i say i like Dragonlance? I don't recall

    now here is the deal with dragonlance, it is (in my option) not a very well written series, it is certainly unorginial, it suffers from many open flaws

    But it is still better than Eragon in that it at least tries

    It has a less than black in white morality (at least the twins series did, i really didn't read much else) with the king priest and all
    It has some good characters (rasatlin)
    And it has kenders, which are a massive negative effect, but in my games i was able to use non stupid kenders
    Did you really need to quote that whole massive thing? I approve of the TVTropes overdose, though.
    Yes, yes i did, i really did.

    But yeah tv-tropes is amazing



    from,
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    Last edited by EvilElitest; 2007-12-14 at 09:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Eragon

    Nerd-o: I wholeheartedly agree with nearly every sentiment set forth here. I just thought the Star Wars comparison was kind of silly, if even maybe a bit of a stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Premsyl View Post
    Nerd-o: I wholeheartedly agree with nearly every sentiment set forth here. I just thought the Star Wars comparison was kind of silly, if even maybe a bit of a stretch.
    what about my mass of links?
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    Default Re: Eragon

    I find it funny that the same people who bash Eragon's somewhat childish and hackish literary content, are the same ones who praise Weis and Hickman's equally lowly DragonLance series... like it wasn't equally a pile of poorly written tripe.

    However, I read the Dragonlance books.. and the currently released Eragon books. I didnt expect mastery from them, just a quick & entertaining fantasy read. And that's what I got. Like watching an entertaining B movie or something. It's all in expectations really, I wasn't disappointed.
    Apples and Pears, I'm afraid.

    The Dragonlance novels, while hardly the highest peak of literature, are easy to read, simple to understand, and consistant for the most part. There's high adventure and wizards and monsters and all that, but it never once tries to imitate its more illustrious forefathers. Its pulp fantasy and unashamed of it. So yeah, I can pick up and read and reread the Dragonlance novels, as, for me at any rate, they're a decently fun way to kill an afternoon.

    Paolini tried to blend J.R.R. Tolkien's writing style with George Lucas's fable, but failed to remember to include world building. I don't just mean place names and history and the like. I mean drama and characters as well. So it comes off as stale and unoriginal. Not just derivitave, as earlier posts have pointed out everything these days has roots in something else, but unoriginal. There is nothing there that stands out as saying, "Hello, I was created by Paolini!" Then, just to make matters even worse, he had mom and dad sell it to a publisher without, apparently, letting a competent editor pick over it. How else to explain that ridiculously clean butcher shop? Taken together, it makes his books much less palatable than the Dragonlance series.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Juan View Post
    It isn't exactly fair to just compare Eragon to other works and say, well it's been done and this is just a copy...of course it has been done...just about everything has...but how does the author do it this time?
    Perhaps Goethe said and best: "The most original authors are not so because they advance what is new, but because they put what they have to say as if it had never been said before." Apparently, Paolini only bothered to file the serial numbers off his "inspiration."


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    I thought the movie was hilarious. Seriously, it's as if they compiled a list of all the most cliched fantasy elements imaginable and checked them off one by one.

    By the way, Foe of the Lance, this is slightly off-topic, but what's this about you vs the Star Wars universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

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    A lot of it is just outright theft. Magic words, names, the magic system, and as mentioned, the entire plot and pretty much all the characters.

    In addition, they're just horribly written. Have you noticed how Eragon becomes a vegetarian just like Paolini for the exact same reasons, but he still has an intimate mental bond with a creature that eats nothing but meat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Premsyl View Post
    Nerd-o: I wholeheartedly agree with nearly every sentiment set forth here. I just thought the Star Wars comparison was kind of silly, if even maybe a bit of a stretch.
    In this case, I'm just going to have to say "read it again and replace the names". Except I wouldn't wish that on anyone, so perhaps "watch Star Wars again and replace the names"?
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    Default Re: Eragon

    Haven't seen the movie or read the books either, but I know that the excerpts I have read (from anti-shurtugal or provided by other posters on this forum) went completely against all rules of how one should write I have learnt - poor word choice, poor sentence structure, too many adjectives, etc. Now, some people claim there is no such thing as objectively good or bad writing (I disagree, but that's completely irrelevant here), so I will add the disclaimer that Eragon being terribly written it is just my personal opinion, and no more - but since my decision concerning what I read and what I don't is based solely on my opinion, that's perfectly enough. So there - from what I have seen of the Inheritance trilogy, I consider it to be amongst the most horrible writing I have ever had the displeasure to read, so I will not bother wasting my time reading the whole thing.
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    Default Re: Eragon

    I read Eragon, but never went on to Eldest for the simple reason that the narrative bored me silly and I couldn't care about any of the characters. That and the use of the dragon, honestly if you've got the only dragon around (which seems to be the case for Eragon at least), recon is the least of the uses it can be put to. How about, I don't know, killing enemy stuff, or hunting or something, but a remote survay drone is not a particularly interesting use of a dragon.

    On the whole compared to Dragonlance thing: I like Dragonlance. The characters are fairly archtypical, but play with the archtypes a little bit, which is fun. The world makes a degree of sense and doens't feel like it just exists for the heroes to ride around in, which Eragon really feels like to me. The touch of moral ambigouity is also fun, its enough to make me think a bit, but its not all ZOMG Look how mature and dark the story is!!11!! That and the characters in Dragonlance actually do make mistakes and those mistakes have consequenses, yet I can still sympathize with the character. And as said, its happy to remain pulp fantasy first and foremost and never pretends otherwise.
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    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


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    Default Re: Eragon

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    I read Eragon, but never went on to Eldest for the simple reason that the narrative bored me silly and I couldn't care about any of the characters. That and the use of the dragon, honestly if you've got the only dragon around (which seems to be the case for Eragon at least), recon is the least of the uses it can be put to. How about, I don't know, killing enemy stuff, or hunting or something, but a remote survay drone is not a particularly interesting use of a dragon.

    On the whole compared to Dragonlance thing: I like Dragonlance. The characters are fairly archtypical, but play with the archtypes a little bit, which is fun. The world makes a degree of sense and doens't feel like it just exists for the heroes to ride around in, which Eragon really feels like to me. The touch of moral ambigouity is also fun, its enough to make me think a bit, but its not all ZOMG Look how mature and dark the story is!!11!! That and the characters in Dragonlance actually do make mistakes and those mistakes have consequenses, yet I can still sympathize with the character. And as said, its happy to remain pulp fantasy first and foremost and never pretends otherwise.
    You should check out the links i put up, it puts a lot into perspectives
    from,
    EE

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