Arena Tournament, Round 46: Chile VII vs. Horny

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 46: Chile VII vs. Horny

Map

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XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

chilepepper - Chile VII
Stupnick - Horny

All gladiators please roll initiative

[chilepepper]

initiative (1d20+4)[17]

[chilepepper]

No purchases unless you buy something.

Chile starts in X11.
Corey, my companion, starts in W10.

refs

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spells memorized
Guidance, CMW, CMW
SNA I, Entangle

[stupnick]

Checking in and rolling Initiative.

purchase potion of cure light, will buy more depending on you.

(1d20+2)[10]

start in D10

[chilepepper]

No purchases. Good luck.

BTW, Corey starts with a bag in his hand. I have nothing in my hands.

Round 1

Chile: Speak in Auran

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Let me know where he is every round, you know the rest of the plan.

Corey
Double move to D10/+100' (position/elevation).

Chile
refs

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Swift Action to activate Animal Devotion: Hawk's Flight

Intangible, luminescent wings grow from my back. Move to T15/+20'.
Cast Entangle F/G 11/12.
area of effect map for everyone's reference

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stats

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HP 7/7
AC 14 T14 F14
Spells:Guidance, CMW, CMW // SNA I, Entangle
Condition: Animal Devotion:Hawk's Flight 1/10
Position: T15/+20'

Corey
Position: D10/+100'

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Air Elemental, Small
Size/Type: Small Elemental (Air, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 9/9 (2d8)
Speed: Fly 100 ft. (perfect) (20 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4)
Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Air mastery, whirlwind
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +6, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative(B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Alignment: neutral

Done

[stupnick]

Never just a simple fight with you is it chile
Note to self.. Buy a damn ranged weapon

in my hands are two shields. once in each hand.

Luckily for sanctuary i don't have to deal with the entangle.

Moving, you lose sight of me at J6

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double move to N3

reactive spot check to see if i could tell what was in "corey"'s hand
spot - (1d20+2)[7]

stats

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Location: N3
HP: 13/13
AC: 18
T: 12 F: 16

[chilepepper]

This spell does not prevent the warded creature from being attacked or affected by area or effect spells. The subject cannot attack without breaking the spell but may use nonattack spells or otherwise act.

You certainly do have to deal with the Entangle. It's an area of effect and isn't an attack.

[chilepepper]

Sleepsmoke works by precedent, so Entangle does too.

[chilepepper]

I'm getting the feeling that we may be changing the ruling on this map soon.

Let's just get this match rolling again. I'd like to change my move, and not have cast the Entangle. If you want to stick me with the move as posted and just not have the Entangle affect you during round one, I'm fine with that too. Just let me know what you think is fair. Then I'll take my turn for round 2.

[stupnick]

ok sure, go ahead and let's rewind since nothing has happened if you like, back to your round 1..

[chilepepper]

Same actions in round 1 minus the entangle, would you like to change your actions?

[stupnick]

no change to my actions

[chilepepper]

Alright...

As soon as Corey can see you, he'll fly directly above you. Staying at the same elevation, he moves to J3 (45'), then if he can't see you from J3, he moves to J1 (55'). As soon as he sees you he'll alter course to end directly above you, then he'll say something to me in Auran. Let me know where he is when he speaks and I'll finish his turn and mine.

[stupnick]

n3





...........................

[chilepepper]

Corey says in auran

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I'm above him

Chile says in auran

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DO IT!

Corey tips the bag he's holding upside down, emptying the contents. 30 whetstones fall on you dealing (30d6)[110] damage total. I believe that's the match.

[stupnick]

?????????????????

what?

no attack rolls, no nothing?

[chilepepper]

Falling Objects

Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.

Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen.

For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).

Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.

For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.

Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.

The chart shows that objects weighing between 1-5# deal 1d6 per 70' fallen. By RAW, when something falls on you, you take the damage, no attack roll, no reflex save. Corey is basically dropping the items in his square, which then fall 100' and land on you, each dealing 1d6 damage.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

@Chile:

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I believe you've run afoul of a flight rule, making the action you've taken illegal. Assuming you're using a small air elemental...

A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load.

By SRD, the Light load for a Small creature with a Strength score of 10 (a Small Air Elemental) would be 0.75 x 33, or 24.75 pounds. Your elemental is in violation of that encumbrance with the load of 30 whetstones and bag, making his movement illegal.

@All, concerning falling items:

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The rules outline what happens to a character when he/she is hit by a falling object, but not how to determine the hit.

IMO, this should be paralleled to the closest similar situation that is covered by D&D rules.

Basic Qualities:
Ranged attempt to deal damage via individual physical objects.
Targeted at a square, not an individual.

Best as I can tell, this is closest to a ranged attack against a foe with total concealment. That or an attack by a trap. Of the two, the trap seems the most similar, as the opponent does not actually have concealment. That would mean an attack roll, vs AC of target.

@Other minor things (any can read):

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Sorry for the multiple issues, but if this attack method is going to be used, I'd like there to be no issues or qualms about it. Dropping a held item is a free action. However, removing items from a bag is generally a move action. While tipping the bag upside down is good imagery, I believe that removing multiple items from a bag in this fashion may equate to multiple move actions.

@At refs only:

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Bear in mind, many items on the banned list are there for balance issues. For example, Power Word: Pain, which is essentially a lot of damage, no save, no attack roll. Main difference between that and this? With PWP, you had to get closer to your opponent.

On spoilers 2 and 3, I would like other ref weigh ins.

Issue concerning method of damage dealing is on hold, pending answer from Chile on the issue above.

[Bayar]

@other minor things:

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Well, we gotta hand it to the RAW. You need a bag of holding or something else that can be dumped open to do it for all the items. Simply turning a non-magical bag upside down wont make the items fall. Because this is D&D. Where the laws of gravity dont mean sh!t.

[chilepepper]

Oops, I miscalculated encumbrance. I forgot that small creatures carry .75 of the listed load. It should have been 20 whetstones, not 30. Waiting on ref to decide what to do about that.

edit: and the bag was just for show, technically corey could just hold the separate whetstones without the bag

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

I don't think changing around held items to make the plays legal is the fairest way to handle this. The held items are a legal play, albeit with unintended consequences.

As for encumbrance vs flying movement, the logical course of action would be to reverse play to the point of the illegal action. This seems to be most in keeping with current arena policy. That would be the movement of the elemental. This would mean the following:

Reverse play to round 1 (post 5), after Chile's speech in Auran, before elemental's movement. Items remain unchanged (i.e. a bag with 30 whetstones in it, held by elemental). As that will render the current debate philosophical for the time being, we'll go with that. That said, the other issue is one that should be addressed one way or the other, to prevent future slowdowns. I'll bring it up in the Waiting room.

[chilepepper]

No purchases. Good luck.

BTW, Corey starts with a bag in his hand. I have nothing in my hands.

Round 1

Chile: Speak in Auran

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Let me know where he is every round, you know the rest of the plan.

above unchanged

Corey says

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But it's too heavy, I'm going to drop it. I'll still tell you where he is.

and he drops the bag as a free action.

Corey
Double move to D10/+100' (position/elevation).

Chile
refs

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Swift Action to activate Animal Devotion: Hawk's Flight

Intangible, luminescent wings grow from my back. Move to T15/+20'.
Cast Entangle F/G 11/12.
area of effect map for everyone's reference

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Since The_Chilli_God addressed the issue, the Entangle is back. It's not really an abuse of this arena because as I stated in the Waiting room, Entangle on round one is possible in all but one Arena.

stats

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HP 7/7
AC 14 T14 F14
Spells:Guidance, CMW, CMW // SNA I, Entangle
Condition: Animal Devotion:Hawk's Flight 1/10
Position: T15/+20'

Corey
Position: D10/+100'

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Air Elemental, Small
Size/Type: Small Elemental (Air, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 9/9 (2d8)
Speed: Fly 100 ft. (perfect) (20 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4)
Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Air mastery, whirlwind
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +6, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative(B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Alignment: neutral

Done

[stupnick]

so i guess i get a reflex save.

(1d20+2)[14]

will post actions once i figure out if that makes the DC, according to sheet it does, but knowing chile, who knows.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

According to Chile's sheet, and looking at information gleaned from actions performed, DC is passed.

Per description of the spell, you are limited to movement at 1/2 speed.

[stupnick]

Movement, all out run to t10, that is 40x4=160/2=80

[chilepepper]

You can't run across difficult terrain. Can't support it with the SRD, so I'm retract that statement.

edit: and yes, the save is the same listed on my sheet

[stupnick]

ok then, double move to A7

[chilepepper]

I think I was wrong. Entangle says you can move at half speed, but it doesn't actually say "difficult terrain". Whichever you want to do, run or double move, is fine with me.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Actually, Chile, your initial observation is correct, as you don't need the "difficult terrain" wording exactly to prevent running and charging.

Hampered Movement

Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.

If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling)

In some situations, your movement may be so hampered that you don’t have sufficient speed even to move 5 feet (1 square). In such a case, you may use a full-round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. Even though this looks like a 5-foot step, it’s not, and thus it provokes attacks of opportunity normally. (You can’t take advantage of this rule to move through impassable terrain or to move when all movement is prohibited to you.)

You can’t run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement.

While the Entangle effect doesn't qualify as difficult terrain, it does qualify as hampered movement, which is all that is needed to prevent running.

[chilepepper]

Okay, so A7. My move is coming in a second.