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  1. - Top - End - #361
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Last thing I read was in the FAQ where Giant says they are about 7th to 9th. But then, they've maybe been through a lot since that was first written. And V's Disintegrate on the Black Dragon puts him at least 12th I guess

  2. - Top - End - #362
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    I believe in the FAQ The Giant mentioning that in Babylon 5 ships move at the speed of plot.

    Thus tOOtS are all at the level plot requires them to be.


    And what's with the heating charge? ???


  3. - Top - End - #363
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    BTW: This just in, Vaarsuvius is really ... Jokey Smurf.

    Hey, Lady Samurai, I brought you a present! [glow=red,2,300]*BOOM*[/glow] Hehehehahaha
    find . -name \\*.sdf -exec \"sed \'s/Pb/Au/g\' -\"
    Your superior intellect is no match for our feeble weapons!

  4. - Top - End - #364
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Well, i like Vaarsuvius standing up for himself, but I think that when Miko recovers, she will be extremely angry and will want revenge (in a lawful way, of course). Perhaps not right away but this could cause extra trouble to V at Shojo's justice.
    Wish is a 0-level spell, which\'s material component is a 100-dollar note given to your DM under the table.

  5. - Top - End - #365
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish
    And calling someone simple-minded, followed by (after an exchange of escalating insults and slights on both sides) "treat me with RESPECT or I'll blow you up," is hypocrisy.
    Only if you've represented yourself as a polite, peaceful person. V has never done anything of the kind.
    Now if you don\'t mind, I am somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.

  6. - Top - End - #366
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylian
    I've just noticed, Miko has the lower body of a male!
    Huh? Where does that observation come from?

  7. - Top - End - #367
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylian
    I've just noticed, Miko has the lower body of a male!
    I assume you beleive this since Haley has rounded edges at the pelvic region, but she is the only female to be like that. I'm assuming that Miko is square since she is wearing a metallic armor and Haley has on leather. THat or Haley has a rather nice behind.

    Or maybe it means nothing at all...
    All hail the Dark One!

    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.

  8. - Top - End - #368
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMage
    Looks like V isn't good or LN at all, TN would probably the best I could do for her at this point.
    First, I don't think there's any way to really be TN. I mean, you can't just not ever have an opinion that leans toward one side or the other. Personally i would call V CG.
    She has never really shown any subservitude to authority except for Roy and that's because they're party mates and their adventures help her explore and learn. She seems to feel she is above any mortal law and therefore you never really know what she's gonna do in any given situation, but her history throughout the strip suggests she does seem to want to do good in general.
    However, this really only applies to doing what's good within her own party which means what may seem like "good" might be her protecting the rest of the party so they'll remain alive to help her. In that respect, she seems a bit more CN.
    In the case of the current strip, Miko has been annoying V since she first arrived. Hit her with a tanglefoot bag (that's gotta be nasty and hard to clean off). She's assumed leadership over the party. Led them off on this side quest that V protested as a waste of time and talent. Blatantly disregarded any sort of plan the party seemed to have concerning the ogres, and without even consulting the others, took it upon herself to execute her own plan, in the middle of which she commands V to cast fireball in the same fashion someone would command a dog to sit.
    I think V was more than entitled to get a bit of revenge here. Miko has been needing a bit of schooling in the ways of the real world anyway.
    A bit of a side note: I think V is female. Not for any specific reason that I can point out.. just always thought of her as female since I started reading.

  9. - Top - End - #369
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jevanyn
    BTW: This just in, Vaarsuvius is really ... Jokey Smurf.

    Hey, Lady Samurai, I brought you a present! [glow=red,2,300]*BOOM*[/glow] Hehehehahaha
    Hah! Thanks for making that connection for me! ;D My brain tries to purge all smurf-related notions before they reach my consciousness. (I know I will have lived too long if I life to see the CGI Smurf trilogy due to debut in 2008...)
    Sailors Puzzled by Strange Music at Sea; Choral Reef to Blame

  10. - Top - End - #370
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawkis
    And what's with the heating charge? ???
    Well, the fireball heated the ogres up considerably.
    Thus, the 'heating charge'.

    It might be Rich is looking forward to the higher heating costs we'll (all over the US) have this winter.

  11. - Top - End - #371
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihility
    First, I don't think there's any way to really be TN. I mean, you can't just not ever have an opinion that leans toward one side or the other. Personally i would call V CG.
    While I don't think V is TN, it is possible to have an alignment that way. A TN character can lean towards Law or Chaos or G or E, just doesn't feel strongly about it. Switzerland was Neutral in WWII, yet I'm pretty sure they had opinions about what was going on. THey just didn't act upon it.

    The fact that V created a bill points to Lawful. The fact she put an explosive Rune on the 2nd one just shows that she isn't fully good.

    Maybe she used energy substitution to convert it from Fire to Banana Cream Pie or something... That would make it a less questionablel act.

    Personally I think trying to set fire to a paladin could be considered and evil act, but doesn't automatically make you evil.
    All hail the Dark One!

    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.

  12. - Top - End - #372
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    I do not think setting fire to a paladin is necessarily an evil act because it is done to make a point and the paladin is in absolutely no danger from the explosive runes -- IE you know she is at full hit points and healing is availble... At worst it is merely a waste of party resources....


  13. - Top - End - #373
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    By every definition I have ever understood it, attacking any character known to you to have a "good" alignment and is not threatening you physically (slicing the invoice should not be considered physically threatening) is definitely considered to be an Evil act.

    V might only be Neutral on the scale of Good to Evil but because this is the second time he/she has used Explosive Runes to attack someone that was not physically threatening him/her I would gather that Good is NOT in his/her alignment.

    Great strip Giant, I look forward to Miko and Roy's Reaction...not to mention how the rest of OOtS will react. :)
    23 years on D&D and still learning

  14. - Top - End - #374
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    I still contend that the spell was not on the paper, just the words.

    Though I am dissapointed that V would waste the paper to write the invoice, without charging Miko for it.

  15. - Top - End - #375
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by silvadel
    I do not think setting fire to a paladin is necessarily an evil act because it is done to make a point and the paladin is in absolutely no danger from the explosive runes -- IE you know she is at full hit points and healing is availble... At worst it is merely a waste of party resources....
    By that logic shooting someone is okay as long as you don't aim for a vital organ and the paramedics aren't too far away.

    If the paladin was immune to fire then it may be questionable, but hurting someone on purpose...
    All hail the Dark One!

    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.

  16. - Top - End - #376
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Techonce
    The fact that V created a bill points to Lawful. The fact she put an explosive Rune on the 2nd one just shows that she isn't fully good.
    I don't think V actually expected Miko to pay her anything. I think V had just had enough of Miko but was willing to give her a chance to appease her by paying her off. If she didn't pay up, out come the runes. The fact that V was already pretty sure Miko wouldn't pay up points to her not being lawful or very good.


  17. - Top - End - #377
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    JeffreyToTheMax's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jades
    Though I am dissapointed that V would waste the paper to write the invoice, without charging Miko for it.
    LOL... charge her for the bill. That would've been great!
    Avatar has been edited (poorly) to reflect my new appearance.

    (Note: ignore the previous statement if my avatar remains a Photobucket error message. If so, that is a poor approximation of my genuine appearance.)

  18. - Top - End - #378
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jades
    I still contend that the spell was not on the paper, just the words.
    Quite likely, Roy is clearly close enough to be hit by Explosive Runes, Belkar may be, and if Miko acts in character she will probably kill V if they are there and go off. (This is her observed response to attack.)

    Actual explosive runes on that peice of paper (on the side facing Miko) would be stupid.

    Nor if Miko chooses to retaliate does V have any likely helpers nearby. Roy would ALSO be seriously pissed by explosive runes, Durkon might well feel that after you have surrendered to someone because it is THOR's WILL that you surrender it is a bad thing to attack them, Belkar is (A) unpredicatble and (B) unable to take the horse one on one, Elan and Haley aren't yet back from rescuing the hostages.

    I think V is just enjoying him/herself by pulling Roy & Miko's chain. The extra charge for heating on a fireball spell, and charge for components that is rounded down both pretty well show this.

    While explosive runes won't directly seriously hurt anyone, it could easily get out of hand (and not in a good way for V, Miko is real close to an ideal mage killer build and is quite possibly of higher level than the OotS given the outcome of her vs. Haley, Roy, Belkar, and V at their first meeting). OTOH watching Roy panic over nothing and try to explain to Miko has endless potential for entertainment.

  19. - Top - End - #379
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawkis
    And what's with the heating charge? ???
    I'm guessing it's a thermodynamics joke--you know, energy is conserved.
    U=Q - PdV
    V casts fireball, which takes a lot of energy. There's not really any PdV work done here (although I guess you could argue that a charred ogre has less volume than an uncooked one), so the energy cost for the spell must be the heat added-Q. Thus the heating charge.

    Oh, dear. My inner physics geek is showing. Wait--did I say inner?
    A polar bear is just a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.

  20. - Top - End - #380
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by kriklaf

    I'm guessing it's a thermodynamics joke--you know, energy is conserved.
    U=Q - PdV
    V casts fireball, which takes a lot of energy. There's not really any PdV work done here (although I guess you could argue that a charred ogre has less volume than an uncooked one), so the energy cost for the spell must be the heat added-Q. Thus the heating charge.

    Oh, dear. My inner physics geek is showing. Wait--did I say inner?
    Not to be technical, but two issues.

    1. I seriously doubt it's a thermo joke. I just don't see that being The Giant's style.

    2. never mind. I'm not going into the technical issues with the above...
    All hail the Dark One!

    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.

  21. - Top - End - #381
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    I guess my input into the whole alignment debate is that just because you can get pissed off at somebody, or not like somebody, neither means that you aren't still "good". We know that everybody (except Belkar) is "not evil" at the least, but again, just because V got off on the wrong foot with somebody doesn't mean that V's not still good, or lawful, or chaotic, or whatever you thought V was before this strip.

    Remember, Good can screw up and do bad things (also, Roy wanted to be known as a "bad boy" by Miko, though he's LG). But I think this just shows no more than V's attitude towards Miko. That's it. Nothing deeper.

  22. - Top - End - #382
    The_Shadow
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    re: Heating Charge, it seems obvious enough to me... V provided a toasty fire that warmed people up on a chilly morning, if only briefly. :)

    Hey, it's not as silly as the Roaming Charge!

    And Techonce, I admire your restraint. :) (Physics degree here.)

  23. - Top - End - #383
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Shadow
    And Techonce, I admire your restraint. :) (Physics degree here.)
    You can add me to the resident physicist list... :)

  24. - Top - End - #384
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    I leave for a week and it's one of the funniest ever.
    I loved the old man. And I can totally relate to walking up hill both ways because I live in Seattle, and that is a regular occurance.
    My favorite quote though goes to V: "But should this one request that I alter reality on her behalf, she will be issued an appropriate bill afterwards."
    I usually love Belkar and Elan quotes, but V's just took the cake this time. *This one*! Classic.

    Enigma

  25. - Top - End - #385
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    "NO!"
    What's the chance V's CN?
    :I'm a multiclass fighter/rogue/sorceror specializing in enchantment spells.
    :Doesn't that strike you as being overly complex?
    :Not until this moment, no.
    Official hunter of Roaming Gnomes
    :Mr. Stiffly! You came back!

  26. - Top - End - #386
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    Dorni's Avatar

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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Before I start ranting, I must say that was a very excellent comic.

    On Alignment: in comic 213, it was made obvious that V considered this a "waste of his/her arcane powers". Notice that a simmilar same phrase cropped up again. V is angry at the waste of talent, time, energy, and also angry at Miko, who continues to insult him/her. I see this simply as V's version of going postal. What does this have to do with alignment? Good people can feel angry, and have the ability to 'go postal'. Doing so does not mean that they cannot be good. As to this being deliberate, and therefor not being good, remember that Miko diliberatly tracked them down and attacked with what could be considered barely enough to cover her code of conduct, yet she is indisputably good.

    On V's gender: I see that this lends absoultly no credence to either side. Elves are generally described as emphasising the arts and culture (if I may be so bold, things more females are interested in than men), so I can see how that would A) have a role on V's behavior. Saying that he/she acts like a woman might just be a result of being an elf. Also, that elven culture might make V sensitive to insults of respect, particularly being called by his/her race and being bluntly ordered as Miko has dealt out. perhaps V feels justified in throwing (what is now) a realitivly weak spell at her.

    as to what V was thinking: Rember that V has an extemly high intelligence. Durkon, in comic 205, touches on the fact that while they Miko's 'prisoners', she has some responsibilities to the party. He mentions travel expenses, but I would think that delivering her prisoners to her lord in one piece is also a responsibility. Being a Paladin, she has to lawfully take that into account. Also, attacking V now can only be described as revenge-anger motivated, and doesn't that carry connotations of evil? it would be a breach of alignment. It also breaches the Code of Conduct. Since V's act did not threaten any 'innoccents', it did not, as written, offend the Paladin's Code of Conduct. Now, the Code also metiones acting with honor. I see the honorable thing to do in this is to give V a chance to explain himself before making any hostile move, and that gives V a chance to point out the above, thus granting him protection.
    With your every step, these grand adventures shall grow more distant and faint. And there may come a day when you forget the faces and voices of those you have met along the way. On that day, I bid you remember this... That no matter how far your journey may take you, you stand where you stand by virtue of the road you walked to get there.

  27. - Top - End - #387
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Shadow
    Hey, it's not as silly as the Roaming Charge!
    Actually I thought the roaming charge made perfect sense....


  28. - Top - End - #388
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    "[E]veryone in the party is of Good alignment except Belkar."--The Giant

    (Of course, now this will only spark a discussion about alignment shifts that may or may not have occurred in the past year...)

    Regardless, remember that V wasn't especially enthused about being arrested, but still agreed to go along fairly readily due to the opportunity to learn about the magic gates (#206). Thus, any random good works along the way are a distraction from V's higher goal. So since V's only incentive for going along with Miko in the first place is being postponed (and, still being quite a distance from their destination, who knows how many other "distractions" Miko will take them on), V is naturally getting ...irritated.

    (I guess tomorrow we'll find out whether that paper actually contained Explosive Runes or not...)

    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, &&for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

  29. - Top - End - #389
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Quote Originally Posted by Techonce
    2. never mind. I'm not going into the technical issues with the above...
    ...joke...
    for what it's worth, I also have a physics degree. And the Giant's made a couple of physics references before (see Schroedinger's Ninja in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, V's constant bragging that he can play havoc with the laws of physics)
    A polar bear is just a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.

  30. - Top - End - #390
    The_Shadow
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    Default Re: Order of the Stick: September I

    Looks like physicists are a bit thick on the ground around here... Who knew?

    Quote Originally Posted by kriklaf
    A polar bear is just a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.
    And just think if you transform to bipolar coordinates!

    Either you've invented a duplicator, or you turn bears insane. Either way, you're ready to be a supervillain!

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