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    Default Boxer [Base Class]

    This is partially based off of Hajime no Ippo, and of course the Monk Class.

    Boxer

    Alignment
    Any

    Hit Die
    D12

    Class Skills

    A Boxer's Class Skills (and key ability for each skill) are Balance(Dex), Concentration(Con), Escape Artist(Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Jump(Str), Sleight of Hand(Dex), Spot(Wis), and Tumble(Dex).

    Skill points
    4+ int modifier (x4 at first level)

    The Boxer
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Damage

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Improved Unarmed Strike|1d6

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Power Attack|1d6

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Improved Feint|1d6

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Prideful Fists|1d8

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Bob and Weave|1d8

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Jab|1d8

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Guard Up|1d10

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Prideful Fists +2|1d10

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Uppercut|1d10

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Bob and Weave +2|1d12

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Guts|1d12

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Prideful Fists +3|1d12

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Hook|3d6

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Finishing Blow, Improved Guard|3d6

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Bob and Weave +3|3d6

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Prideful Fists +4|2d10

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Improved Jab|2d10

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Expert Finishing Blow|2d10

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Counter, Master Guard|2d12

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Prideful Fists +5, Bob and Weave +4, Fists of the World Champion|3d8[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Boxers are proficient with the Punching Dagger, and Spiked Gauntlets. If they use any other weapon than their unarmed strike, or these two Prideful Fists, Jab, Uppercut, Hook, Finishing Blow, and Counter become unusable. And Fists of the World Champion by extension of losing these.

    They are also proficient with light armor, however if they wear any armor they lose Bob And Weave, Guard Up, and Counter.

    Class Abilities

    Improved Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a boxer gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

    Usually a boxer’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

    A boxers’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

    A boxer also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would.

    Power Attack: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

    Improved Feint: At third level a boxer can make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a move action.

    Prideful Fists (Su): Every four levels, a boxer's fists are given a +1 enhancement bonus and are treated as magical for the purposes of damage reduction.

    Bob and Weave: As a boxer you are quite agile, and hard to hit. Thus you gain a dodger bonus of +1 every 5 levels. This stacks with other dodge bonus'.

    Jab: A boxer has quick hands, and once a round before an attack may make an additional attack at the same BaB as his secondary. If you are power attacking, a jab remains the same, neither gaining bonus damage, or losing attack bonus.

    At 17th level you gain the ability to do this twice a round.

    Guard Up: Boxers are excellent at deflecting blows when their guard is up, thus as long as they are not flatfooted they gain a +2 natural armor bonus. However deflection is not their only skill, they also gain damage reduction of -2.

    By level 14 their arms have hardened from taking multiple blows, increasing the armor bonus to +4, as well as the damage reduction to -5

    By level 19 they have hardened their arms to something past humanly possible, increasing the armor bonus to +6 and the damage reduction to -10.

    Uppercut: The boxer is not only fast but strong as well, if you are power attacking, the bonus damage of your first successful hit is doubled.

    Guts: A boxer has will of steel, thus they are much harder to kill, or even knock out. Thus you may add a bonus (this bonus is equal to half your boxer level+your wisdom and constitution modifiers) to the amount of damage it will take to knock you out, this is also added to the amount of damage it will take to kill you
    (ie. a level 18 boxer with 16 con and 12 wis need to be at -23 to knock him out and -33 to kill him)

    Hook: Technique is also useful to the boxer, once per round you may declare an attack a 'hook', this attack bypasses half of a foe's armor and damage reduction.

    Finishing Blow: A boxer is well known for their ability to take down weakened enemies with one shot, thus if your foe has less than half their health, you may attempt a finishing blow as a standard action.

    A finishing blow is an attack with your full BAB, if you hit the foe must make a for save (DC10+half boxer level+str mod) if they fail, they are instantly knocked down to -5 health.

    If the foe has more than half their health, the ability fails and still counts towards your uses per day. You may only use this ability a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier.

    At 18th level the boxer can substitute the fort save for a will save.

    Counter: A boxer has finely honed senses, and thus is able to attack opponents even as they attack. If you are attacked, no matter by what, you may make an attack of opportunity before your opponent actually attacks you as long as you are in range. The foe then makes a fortitude save (dc10+half boxer level+str mod), if they fail, their attack fails as well.

    A counter uses up your attacks of opportunity

    Fists of the World Champion: At their peak, a boxer is able to roll together a string of devastating blows. Once per day, as a full round action, they may not only jab twice, but also attack with a hook, then an uppercut, and finally a finishing blow.

    You may use this ability twice a day, but the second time you use this ability it has a 50% chance to fail. Regardless of the outcome you are fatigued afterwards.

    The finishing blow used in this skill counts towards your total number of finishing blow attempts per day. If you fail your second attempt, it does not count towards your uses per day.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My goal in this was.. well I just wanted to create a boxer class after reading all 700+ chapters of hajime no ippo, however I tried my best to keep the class somewhat distant from the manga.

    I am sure a boxing class has been done before but I dun care much.

    Any thoughts?

    Edit: Made some changes..

    Edit Edit: Changed a bit more
    Last edited by Setra; 2008-01-04 at 01:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Prideful Fists (Su): Every four levels, a boxer's fists are given a +1 bonus and are treated as magical for the purposes of damage reduction.
    What sort of bonus? To what?

    Bob and Weave: As a boxer you are quite agile, and hard to hit. Thus you gain a natural armor bonus of +1 every 5 levels.
    This doesn't sound as if it should be natural armour; I'd change it to dodge.

    Jab: A boxer has quick hands, and before an attack may make an additional attack at half his BAB. If you are power attacking, a jab remains the same, neither gaining bonus damage, or losing attack bonus.

    At 17th level you gain the ability to do this twice a round.
    Half BAB is weird. Why not just make it a secondary attack?

    Guard Up: Boxers learn to defend, as well as attack. Thus, as long as a boxer is not flat footed he gains a +2 shield bonus to AC, this bonus is lost if the boxer uses a full round action, until his next turn.
    This wouldn't be too powerful if you didn't lose it at all.

    Uppercut: The boxer is not only fast but strong as well, if you are power attacking, the bonus damage of your first successful hit is doubled.
    Cool. Wouldn't be too powerful if you got it on every hit.

    Guts: A boxer has will of steel, thus they are much harder to kill, or even knock out. Thus you may add a bonus (this bonus is equal to half your boxer level+your wisdom and constitution modifiers) to the amount of damage it will take to knock you out, this is also added to the amount of damage it will take to kill you
    (ie. a level 18 boxer with 16 con and 12 wis need to be at -23 to knock him out and -33 to kill him)
    The wording is confusing, but I like the ability.

    Hook: Technique is also useful to the boxer, once per round you may declare an attack a 'hook', this attack bypasses half of a foe's armor and damage reduction.
    I like.

    Finishing Blow: A boxer is well known for their ability to take down weakened enemies with one shot, thus if your foe has less than half their health, you may attempt a finishing blow as a standard action.

    A finishing blow is an attack with your full BAB, if you hit the foe must make a for save (DC10+half boxer level+str mod) if they fail, they are instantly knocked down to -5 health. If you wish, you can use a full round action, rather than a standard, to increase the save dc by half.

    If the foe has more than half their health, the ability fails and still counts towards your uses per day. You may only use this ability a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier.

    At 18th level the boxer can substitute the fort save for a will save.
    Increasing the Save DC by half is too powerful, IMO. The rest of the ability is pretty good, though.

    Counter: A boxer has finely honed senses, and thus is able to attack opponents even as they attack. If you are attacked, no matter by what, you may make an attack of opportunity before your opponent actually attacks you as long as you are in range. The foe then makes a fortitude save (dc10+half boxer level+str mod), if they fail, their attack fails as well.
    This is really powerful. Although because you get it at 19th level, it seems ok.

    Fists of the World Champion: At their peak, a boxer is able to roll together a string of devastating blows. Once per day, as a full round action, they may not only jab twice, but also attack with a hook, then an uppercut, and finally a finishing blow.

    You may use this ability twice a day, but the second time you use this roll 1d10, if you roll a 5 or lower, the attack fails, if you roll a 6 or higher the attack succeeds. Regardless of the outcome you are fatigued afterwards.

    The finishing blow used in this skill counts towards your total number of finishing blow attempts per day. If you fail your second attempt, it does not count towards your uses per day.
    Wouldn't it be easier to just say it has a 50% chance of success?

    The unarmed damage is far too low early game. Bump it up to more than what a monk gets.

    The utter lack of defense is crippling. They can't wear armour, nor do they get an AC bonus like the monk. This needs fixing.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    I like the idea of the class. It seems balanced to me but I can't be 100% sure.

    Notes

    Bob and Weave - It may make the ability more powerful but the name says to me that the armor bonus should be a dodge bonus. If it remains a natural armor bonus does it stack with other sources?

    Jab - I'd change the description of this ability. I believe you are basically saying that once a round the boxer can make a jab attack. But it almost sounds like they get a jab with every attack they make.

    Finishing Blow - My opinion here is that instead of reducing them to -5 health it should deal normal damage and knock them unconcious for something like 1d4+str mod rounds. I would also take away the ability to increase the DC by making it a full round action. It should probably be a full round action from the get go.

    Counter - Is it safe for me to assume that the boxer cannot perform more counters than he has attacks of opportunity? Also, does the use of this ability allow the attack of opportunity to be used against the same opponent more than once a round?

    Last but not least, I'd say with the changes I suggested, a d12 hit die is in order.

    More to come.
    Last edited by Tyonisius; 2008-01-03 at 03:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    The utter lack of defense is crippling. They can't wear armour, nor do they get an AC bonus like the monk. This needs fixing.
    They do seem a bit weak in AC. However, with the counter ability and a d12 (which I suggest changing it to) it's not quite as bad. My suggestion for this is to have the shield bonus to AC increase as the Boxer gains levels... As is, the boxer could technically get an animated shield at higher levels and this ability becomes moot. Ok here is my re do of the AC bonuses of this class...

    Bob and Weave - As stated previously, dodge bonus instead of natural armor.

    Guard Up - I am assuming this is the boxer using his forearms to deflect the blows. As such this would fit just fine as a natural armor bonus. I would word it something similar to "Guard Up - At level 7 the Boxer has learned to deflect blows using his forearms. Whenever she is not flat-footed the boxer's natural armor bonus is increased by +2. This increases to +4 at level 7." This way it gives a decent bonus to shore up the AC weakness of the class and it stacks with Amulets and racial natural armor bonuses.
    Last edited by Tyonisius; 2008-01-03 at 03:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    They do seem a bit weak in AC. However, with the counter ability and a d12 (which is suggest changing it to) it's not quite as bad. My suggestion for this is to have the shield bonus to AC increase as the Boxer gains levels... As is, the boxer could technically get an animated shield at higher levels and this ability becomes moot. Ok here is my read the AC bonuses of this class...
    The counter ability comes in at 19th level, so that's not really a good argument. Barbarians have d12 hit dice, too, but they get armour and a shield - the Knight and Warblade too.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    The counter ability comes in at 19th level, so that's not really a good argument. Barbarians have d12 hit dice, too, but they get armour and a shield - the Knight and Warblade too.
    Yes, but if you continue to read the rest of my post. I go on to suggest ways to rectify the low AC problem. By level 19, AC tends to matter very little as you are fighting things with a rediculous bonus to attack. Counter becomes a much more viable way to keep from getting hit.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    What sort of bonus? To what?
    Enhancement. I think that's the kind of bonus weapons get

    This doesn't sound as if it should be natural armour; I'd change it to dodge.
    Fixed, yeah I had forgotten about dodge for some reason.

    Half BAB is weird. Why not just make it a secondary attack?
    That better?

    This wouldn't be too powerful if you didn't lose it at all.
    Still gonna have it lost when flatfooted.

    Cool. Wouldn't be too powerful if you got it on every hit.
    While true, it doesn't suit the flavor, after all, you wouldn't make every attack an uppercut.

    The wording is confusing, but I like the ability.
    That's why I included the explanation until I could think of better wording.

    I like.
    Glad to hear

    Increasing the Save DC by half is too powerful, IMO. The rest of the ability is pretty good, though.
    Actually I was going to remove this part when I decided to add the ability to switch the save.

    This is really powerful. Although because you get it at 19th level, it seems ok.
    Should I maybe decrease the save DC?

    Wouldn't it be easier to just say it has a 50% chance of success?
    I overthought it

    The unarmed damage is far too low early game. Bump it up to more than what a monk gets.
    Bumped up.. though maybe too much?

    The utter lack of defense is crippling. They can't wear armour, nor do they get an AC bonus like the monk. This needs fixing.
    Increased their defensive capabilites.. maybe too much though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyonisius View Post
    Jab - I'd change the description of this ability. I believe you are basically saying that once a round the boxer can make a jab attack. But it almost sounds like they get a jab with every attack they make.
    Changed the wording

    Finishing Blow - My opinion here is that instead of reducing them to -5 health it should deal normal damage and knock them unconcious for something like 1d4+str mod rounds. I would also take away the ability to increase the DC by making it a full round action. It should probably be a full round action from the get go.
    I might change it to just having them reduced to 0 HP... but I wanted it to literally be save-or-die.

    I'm wavering on making it a full round action.

    Counter - Is it safe for me to assume that the boxer cannot perform more counters than he has attacks of opportunity? Also, does the use of this ability allow the attack of opportunity to be used against the same opponent more than once a round?
    They use attacks of opportunity, but it can be used more than once a round on the same opponent.

    Last but not least, I'd say with the changes I suggested, a d12 hit die is in order.

    More to come.
    Done
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    The damage reduction might be a little high. I think at level 19 you are saying it is 10/-. Now, coupled with the corrections to the AC it might be a bit high. I'm not certain of this and I'd have to try building a character to see what they'd look like at level 20.

    I believe your changes to unarmed damage might be a bit much. I'd make it so the 1d8 and 1d10 damage each last one level longer so the maximum damage is 3d8.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Lowered unarmed a bit.

    I'll wait to see if you are right about the damage reduction.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    I think that you should just be able to wear light armour and be done with it.

    The DR as written makes you take more damage, it should be a positive value. Avoid double negatives. It might also be a good idea to make it increase more frequently, just in smaller increments.

    As for the unarmed damage; Monk's damage is way too low so using that as a guide is not a good idea.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    As for the unarmed damage; Monk's damage is way too low so using that as a guide is not a good idea.
    Why do you feel that the Monk's damage is too low?

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Because it is a weapon that does consistently less damage than an appropriate weapon for a melee oriented character and by the time it gets more powerful than a sword, the power attacking fighter is still ahead. Not to mention the critical modifier and range.

    The boxer should start out with decent damage and just have it increase less over time.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebo_ View Post
    Because it is a weapon that does consistently less damage than an appropriate weapon for a melee oriented character and by the time it gets more powerful than a sword, the power attacking fighter is still ahead. Not to mention the critical modifier and range.

    The boxer should start out with decent damage and just have it increase less over time.
    I'll agree with you about the critical range of the weapon. I'd also like to point out that the Monk is not meant to be a front-line damage dealing fighter. You may have meant that it does low damage for the purpose of the boxer, but if you meant overall I'd disagree. The fighter can power attack, however, in most cases the Monk can power attack as well and get improved natural attack. I'm going to stop there because I don't want to hijack this thread. If you'd like to respond please feel free to send me a private message! Peace.
    Last edited by Tyonisius; 2008-01-03 at 06:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    You can't just say that the boxer can't use their defensive abilities in some armor and can't use their offensive abilities in other armor. You have to exactly specify what abilities you are talking about, otherwise it is really open to interpretation.

    Also, the first level gives 2 feats, d12 hit dice, 2 good saves and four skill points, which is a bit much. Power attack shouldn't be coming at 1st level here, otherwise all your class becomes is a single level dip class for fighters.

    Also, why do they have evasion? Are boxers well known for dodging fireballs? I thought they were mostly good at being hit in the face without falling down.

    The jab thing is, well, wrong, there are several ways to grant extra attacks that already exist, but you have invented a new one here. My suggestion, change the "jab" to a secondary natural weapon for almost the same effect. The difference is that it works better with the existing rules that way.

    Overall I like the idea though. It mostly suffers from having similar abilities to other classes done in totally different ways, and perhaps from ability creep (there is frankly just too much different stuff in there).

    Also, I am not really familiar with your source material, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you are missing a few class skills, particularly for a class that gets 4 skill points per level. In particular you may want to think about listen, which is usually paired with spot, although the text of this class doesn't suggest that either would be a class skill. Also missing in profession and craft, which most simple fighting type classes should have. Swim should probably be there as well.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by paigeoliver View Post
    You can't just say that the boxer can't use their defensive abilities in some armor and can't use their offensive abilities in other armor. You have to exactly specify what abilities you are talking about, otherwise it is really open to interpretation.
    I'll do that then

    Also, the first level gives 2 feats, d12 hit dice, 2 good saves and four skill points, which is a bit much. Power attack shouldn't be coming at 1st level here, otherwise all your class becomes is a single level dip class for fighters.

    Also, why do they have evasion? Are boxers well known for dodging fireballs? I thought they were mostly good at being hit in the face without falling down.
    They have evasion because... um I forgot ... I think I'll take out evasion and put Power Attack there.

    The jab thing is, well, wrong, there are several ways to grant extra attacks that already exist, but you have invented a new one here. My suggestion, change the "jab" to a secondary natural weapon for almost the same effect. The difference is that it works better with the existing rules that way.
    How would I word that?

    Overall I like the idea though. It mostly suffers from having similar abilities to other classes done in totally different ways, and perhaps from ability creep (there is frankly just too much different stuff in there).
    The reason there are a lot of varying things is because.. well honestly I just put what seemed to fit, and other abilities were just added to fill gaps.

    Also, I am not really familiar with your source material, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you are missing a few class skills, particularly for a class that gets 4 skill points per level. In particular you may want to think about listen, which is usually paired with spot, although the text of this class doesn't suggest that either would be a class skill. Also missing in profession and craft, which most simple fighting type classes should have. Swim should probably be there as well.
    I'll add Swim, and Profession.. but Craft and Listen aren't really 'Boxer' ish I think.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Shouldn't Jab only be applied to full atacks?

    And for some reason, I feel that this should be more of a prestige class...But that's just me.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Setra View Post

    While true, it doesn't suit the flavor, after all, you wouldn't make every attack an uppercut.
    i agree with the flavor issue, same reason i am assuming that you are denying them the AC bonus when flat-footed (which i agree with). but i don't think that you need to mean that the boxer uses a literal uppercut every time he uses this ability. uppercut is an attack option once the boxer has learned how to hit hard. there are still other ways to hit hard with the same effect though. i would keep the name, but give the boxer the choice to use it every attack. maybe even say that every attack after the first in the round, he gets a -4 hit prob in order to use it.

    also, i think that evasion is a totally acceptable ability for a boxer. float like a butterfly, sting like a... a what? you are basing this class off of a martial artist variant. who int he world rates evasion more than a martial artist?

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ne0 View Post
    Shouldn't Jab only be applied to full atacks?

    And for some reason, I feel that this should be more of a prestige class...But that's just me.
    I suppose it could be but my mental image was 'Jab Cross!' or 'Jab Jab Cross!' or when full attacking 'Jab Jab, Uppercut, Cross, Hook!' or something similar.

    The idea of making it a prestige class had crossed my mind.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Then I'd definately make it a secondary attack, or put some higher penalties on it. At higher levels, the 'half BAB' is a high cost, but at level 6, it's just -3 every attack - not such a big deal.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    [
    The idea of making it a prestige class had crossed my mind.[/QUOTE]

    If you made it a prestige class the ability advancement would be way to fast.
    And if you did tone it down only unarmed fighters or maybe monks would take it.

    Stick with a base class
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post
    i agree with the flavor issue, same reason i am assuming that you are denying them the AC bonus when flat-footed (which i agree with). but i don't think that you need to mean that the boxer uses a literal uppercut every time he uses this ability. uppercut is an attack option once the boxer has learned how to hit hard. there are still other ways to hit hard with the same effect though. i would keep the name, but give the boxer the choice to use it every attack. maybe even say that every attack after the first in the round, he gets a -4 hit prob in order to use it.

    also, i think that evasion is a totally acceptable ability for a boxer. float like a butterfly, sting like a... a what? you are basing this class off of a martial artist variant. who int he world rates evasion more than a martial artist?

    aaron out.
    That's true.

    Hmm, maybe...

    Uppercut remains mostly the same but

    I could add in another ability called a 'Short Upper' later that allows him to use the uppercut for each attack, but each time he uses it after the original the he gets an additional -2 to hit?

    In any case, Boxer's never really 'Evade' per say so much as Sway, Bob, and Weave, which is already represented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ne0 View Post
    Then I'd definately make it a secondary attack, or put some higher penalties on it. At higher levels, the 'half BAB' is a high cost, but at level 6, it's just -3 every attack - not such a big deal.
    By secondary you mean at his secondary BaB right? Because I took out the 'half BaB' part a while ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentNight View Post
    If you made it a prestige class the ability advancement would be way to fast.
    And if you did tone it down only unarmed fighters or maybe monks would take it.

    Stick with a base class
    I made it a base class for that very reason.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Very interesting. I like the flavor - it fits the typical medieval setting somewhat better than the monk stereotype.

    Might I suggest something like the monk bonus feats (stunning fist or imp grapple, etc.), to simulate whether your boxer is an in-fighter or a out-boxer/technician type? The choice would allow you to customize your boxer as you like, or to specialize as an 'Ippo-like' boxer.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by dyslexicfaser View Post
    Very interesting. I like the flavor - it fits the typical medieval setting somewhat better than the monk stereotype.

    Might I suggest something like the monk bonus feats (stunning fist or imp grapple, etc.), to simulate whether your boxer is an in-fighter or a out-boxer/technician type? The choice would allow you to customize your boxer as you like, or to specialize as an 'Ippo-like' boxer.
    For the most part I was just trying to make an 'Ippo-like' boxer, Counter Aside this class is all about Infighting. I only added counter because level 19 was free and I wanted it to be a very strong ability, as it was level 19.

    If I were going to make an Out-boxer I'd be changing the class quite a bit.

    Though thinking about it, Stunning Fist is something I should have added. Grappling on the other hand doesn't really fit. Boxers can clinch, but I don't think any should rely on it.
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Grappling would fit a Brawler, but not necessarily a Boxer.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Hmmm

    I'm not big on judging balance, but at first glance counter looked ridiculously overpowered. In a 1v1 fight they have to make a save to attack you, and you get a free attack when they try...

    Of course, as a level 19 ability, limited by attacks of opportunity (and assuming that it uses one AOO per attack if they have multiple attacks) it is probably alright. Pretty awesome class.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    You think maybe Counter should use more than one AOO attempt?

    Or is it alright because it's a high level ability?

    Maybe I should switch Counters level with Fists of the World Champion (And change the name too because it's too long)
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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Not to step on your toes or anything, especially since I've never read this manga, but I did make a boxer class once: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60828

    To me, your techniques don't really make realistic sense as they are mechanically, but again I have never read this manga.

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    Default Re: Boxer [Base Class]

    Well the manga explains a counter as basically an attack using reflex and intuition to judge when the opponent is going to attack and attack at basically the same time, hitting them first via faster fists.. or something. Of course there is also another counter that is an attack aimed at an opponent who misses you....

    An Uppercut is just a strong punch at the jaw

    A hook is a punch aimed around guards or at the weak point of a guard.

    And a Jab is just a fast, weak punch.

    I admit I don't know much about real boxing but I figured since D&D characters are Superhuman basing them after manga characters, who are also superhuman, might be a good idea.

    Also, I don't care too much about the 'too anime' argument.
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