[Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

[Ceiling009]

But then, how do weapons made up of fire actually work? I'm going with guyr here about god killing kittens, if you can make masterwork swords made out of fire, mind you without weight, then why can't you make masterwork swords out of supernaturally cold ice?

About the quickened bending and the cautious bending, it should be included in the bending overview, though I think they reasoned out cautious bending due to possible cheese with high level forms being done way too early... Though I think taking more than a round any form is basically asking for trouble; just like when you spell is interrupted.

Note:
No one really knows anything about when new episodes will air, except in Canada, they've played up to 313... any episodes after that only have their, at best, their titles spoiled. No air dates though.

[Pirate_King]

A response to ceiling, backwards

New episodes start in march, exact date I do not recall

I think the cautious bending would be limited to a +5 bonus, not a progressive difference like quickened. If that's too cheesy, you could even make it a feat, but I think the time difference would be enough. Also, you could add that seeds and forms that are already full-round actions couldn't be lengthened to get this bonus.

I've also brought up fire before, saying that daggers should be the only thing you can create (aside from the separate seed for the whip), since that's the only thing seen in the show and, given the nature of fire, the only thing that makes sense. it's basically like a little butane torch in your fist. Also, the create in the channel seed is just fireblast damage with precision based damage, no masterwork possibilities. The basis for this use of the seed was probably the druid spell flame blade, but since firebending does not use magical fire, I didn't think that followed.

[Shades of Gray]

By the way, us Canadians are at the episode where

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Zuko finds out his great-grandfather is Roku.

[Pirate_King]

Really? I thought Canada was two episodes past Black Sun. Maybe you're just behind?

[Eighth_Seraph]

Hm. I'm okay with changing both Ice Shards (Weapon) and Blades of Fire (Create) to daggers, but keep in mind that we're restricting the system's versatility by doing so. I can see the cheese coming into play with Explosive spiked chains and the like, but I'm really more worried about the seed making Fire Whip redundant. If we restrict Ice Shards to daggers we're basically saying that a waterbender makes a small, sharp shard of ice and uses it as an improvised weapon that doesn't incur a penalty, rather than actually molding a dagger from ice. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a relevant fluff distinction that we need to take into account.

What I keep noticing is that we're continually losing the sense of fluidity and improvisation that was the heart of this system. The restrictions for who and what can be targeted with Ice Shards (Ranged) have been bothering me for a while, I'm going to post a couple forms here to demonstrate exactly how freeform I originally meant the seeds to be.

Run. Hide. There's no escape.
Water Blast + Ice Shards (Ranged) + Mist = Base DC 33

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The firebender has finally realized that it's all over. Shui Jin, the coward, runs behind the weathered outcropping at the arena's edge, obviously hoping to force me into coming to him. No such luck. The stream is kind enough to provide me with a shard of ice, and I launch it with a jet of water, allowing my blast to maneuver the missile around the corner that would be my doom if ever I approached it. The projectile leaves a fine trail of mist and shatters on impact, making a column of fog to give away my opponent's location. Sorant had to have seen that signal; he'll be coming to back me up shortly. Shui Jin is all ours now.

Swamp Eyes
Manipulate + Feel the Flow; = Base DC 27

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Of course, Shui Jin lasted this long because he knows when to fight and when to run. He's wise to run from my cloud, but I'm ready for him this time. As he leaves the cloud I created, a fine mist lingers at his feat. A close my eyes and sense his trail, allowing his own erratic motion to be his down fall. There is no escaping my eyes, hotman.

And here's a better overall example of what I mean by working with the fluff to do things that the seed's crunch doesn't actually allow. Warning: graphic violence (sort of)

Drillspike
Ice Shards (ranged) = Base DC 10

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....The Dai Li agents have been hunting me all day, and there have been far too many close calls. This one's got his back turned to me, but it's only a matter of time before he senses my presence. I need to take him out. Now.
....This is my last waterskin; better make it count. I draw the water out as quietly as I can from behind a corner and form it into the sharpest point I can muster, allowing it to solidify into a sliver nearly a foot long. I start rotating the shard like a drill, building its accuracy and penetration power. I only have one shot at this. I look around the corner; the agent's still there, looking far more clueless than any Dai Li has a right to be. The shard is humming now with the spin I've been giving it.
....I let fly with my singular weapon, launching the miniature powerhouse at my opponent. The shard pierces the poor fool's back on the left side and goes clean through, bathing the stone floor in red. As the agent falls, I realize that he's been gagged, that his stone gloves served to shackle his hands, and that the earth around his feet was not a solidifying stance, but rather prevented his escape. My eyes widen. A shadow at my feet warns me of an agent behind me, and I realize that my fate is sealed.

The concept here is pretty similar to Flurry of Blows as opposed to Decisive Strike in the monk. Either lots of damage dice to represent a large amount of ice shards, or large bonuses to attack and damage to represent a single, powerful spike of ice. I would have ad hoc'ed this to be a +2 to attack and damage for every 5 points by which the Waterbending check exceeds the DC. There's nothing in the crunch of Ice Shards (ranged) that suggests that I could do anything along the lines of what what I put in the description of the form, but it's a really cool form, and the fluff doesn't expressly forbid it. Also notice that the action was considerably longer than the standard action set up in the seed's description, somethine between two and four full-round actions. That's what I originally had in mind for this system: lots of open room for creativity. Now, I think we need to discuss where the balance between creativity, reasonable boundaries, and adherence to canon lies; and whether the Drillspike form I wrote up is legitimate. What says the playground?

[jagadaishio]

The ability to freely mix and match different seeds with each other is indeed one of the things that I love about this system as it adds a sense of creative flair which makes a character really belong to its creator. The problem is, of course, that D&D, and the d20 system in general, is built on everything having all of its abilities clearly listed and enumerated. For that reason, we really need to just think of all of the different applications that come to mind for a seed and list them as options within the seed's description. That process has already begun with many seeds, but to make this work we need to do it with all of them.

As for whether the drillspike works or not, if it doesn't, it should.

[Shades of Gray]

Mixing seeds is just something not many people think of right away.

What about mixing firebender seeds? All you get is "I'm going to use fire, BUT, I'm also going to throw in MORE fire"

Example mixed seed:

Pinball
Column+Catapult+Tremorsense (used earlier): DC:34

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Xun was facing an elusive foe, the waterbender had created a mist effect, luckily, Xun was prepared. He planted his feet firmly in the ground, feeling for the elusive waterbender. Sensing his foe, he quickly acted, he raised a column of earth from the ground, the waterbender evaded, however, unexpectedly, another column came out of the side of the first one, catapulting him towards the earthbender. The surprised waterbender was directly at his feet. Give up yet?

Also, for the eathbender ability (earth wall), maybe you should make it so you can add spikes for an extra X (5 maybe) DC.

[Pirate_King]

I like the drill spike and there's no escape, and I think they would be allowable, and another thing to keep in mind is a lot of this is going to be ad-hoc.

Swamp Eyes makes a little less sense, unless Shui Jin wandered into a stream that you're in contact with. Making Jin's motion erratic with manipulate makes sense if you've got line of sight, but continually knowing where your water is after its out of sight through feel the flow fit's neither the fluff or the crunch of that seed.

True, most of firebending is either move yourself or move/blast your enemy, but when it comes down to it, everything is like that.

This has kind of been lost, and it has a handful of interesting firebending forms

another thing I think would be awesome for the fire whip

Lightning Whip
Fire Whip + Cold Fire: base DC 59

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Few Firebenders have mastered the art of cold fire; even fewer can maintain it. After separating the ying and yang of his element, Shui Jin did not release his built up energy. The waterbender took advantage of Jin's seemingly distracted trance, and flung his own watery whip at him. In a state of complete calm, Jin swung his arc of electricity through the oncoming attack, giving the waterbender a surprising jolt. Jin advanced, his new weapon crackling in the air around him.

basically, Shui Jin spends a standard action to create the whip, and is able to use it in deflect bending and to attack with lighting multiple times, the trade off being the effects of overbending

and with that, when do the effects of overbending take effect? It's not really explicitly stated if its the round after the form is performed, or the round the form is performed. I would propose that either a feature (or a feat, if it's cheese) that the effects of overbending start a number of rounds after the overbending actually occured equal to a characters constitution modifier, the reason being the fatigue(general, not the D&D effect) hits you after the adrenaline rush.

another edit: Who here is familiar with the Grim 'n Gritty rules? That would certainly make this setting interesting.

[Shades of Gray]

Idea! For the air/earth/fire/water bending study feats, maybe we can make them affect martial classes too?

Air- A warrior who has studied airbending has mastered the art of quick movements. He gains the ability of evasion (as rogue). If the warrior already has evasion from another source, then they gain improved evasion. He also gains his wisdom bonus to AC.

Water- A warrior who has studied water bending has truly mastered the ebb and flow of combat. A warrior may miss, however he can take that miss and continue it into another attack. Once per encounter you may re-roll an attack roll, though you must take the second result.

Earth- A warrior who studies earthbending knows when to stand their ground. They gain their wisdom modifier to resist bull rush attempts. Also, if they spend an entire round standing still, they gain a +2 AC bonus until they move again.

Fire- A warrior who has studied firebending has studied the sheer speed and brutality of fire. When the warrior charges he gains his wisdom bonus to attack and a +2 bonus to damage.

[Pirate_King]

That's cool, and gives non-benders more reason to take ranks in knowledge (bending)

[Superglucose]

Airbenders don't tend towards good more than evil. If anything, their founding principles are found in chaos. This is shown by many facts, one of the stronger arguments being its opposite is strongly based in finding order in the world. The monks live in seclusion and do everything they can to. I don't like the fluff on the Airbender class.

I think the benders should have the following alignments:

Air-Tends towards chaos (uses protection, yes, but protecting one's self is hardly a 'good' act. Tends to use mobility and freedom for protection)
Earth-Tends towards law (see Air, also tends to use strength and solidarity, a lack of change if you will, for protection)
Fire-Tends towards evil (the direct-damage and attacking nature, as well as the perceived emphasis on power)
Water-Tends towards good (beyond protection that Air and Earth tend to both use, water has healing abilities, and healing is almost always good).

But like any of these, they can be used for evil.

[Shades of Gray]

Then by your logic, airbenders would also tend towards good (defensive, no real super damage deadly attacks). They are also mostly pacifists, on avataspirit.com it says that they lack a real finishing move, in keeping with the traditions of the airbenders, that all life is important.

Also, all/most airbenders are monks and students, they go through rigorous training. They follow their masters words and show discipline. The only proof you have that air is chaotic is that Aang is a goof-off.

Most benders study their masters/follow their leaders. I think the only ones who do not tend towards law are the benders who leave their masters and go off on their own (for example, an unpatient earthbender learning from a master like toph or anyone else who fully utilizes the neutral jing).

[Darkkwalker]

Using current fire bending seeds how could you do the fire dragon on a leash move that's done in the episode where they meet the deserting fire bending master?
Can't remember the name of the ep.

[ErrantX]

Play with Fire + Fire Whip mostly.

Play with Fire is the catch all "I wanna do something neat with fire" ability for the firebenders. So long as it's not really meant for attacks or whatever, you use it for doing flashy stuff and, well, playing with fire.

-X

[Superglucose]

Then by your logic, airbenders would also tend towards good (defensive, no real super damage deadly attacks). They are also mostly pacifists, on avataspirit.com it says that they lack a real finishing move, in keeping with the traditions of the airbenders, that all life is important.

Explain to me how non-aggressive=good. Explain to me how power=evil. Explain to me how defensive can't be evil.

Also, all/most airbenders are monks and students, they go through rigorous training. They follow their masters words and show discipline. The only proof you have that air is chaotic is that Aang is a goof-off.

Or perhaps the title Nomads implies chaos. I never mentioned that Aang was a goof off. I was merely saying that the fact that Aang is clearly 'good' throws a very sharp wrench into any of the people he's around. His master was clearly chaotic good as well, while the rest of the masters were some form of neutral (they didn't care about Aang as a person, merely how he served the natural order. They didn't even care that he was the avatar insofar as he could help people!)

A chaotic person can go through rigorous training, and follow a master and show discipline. They just prefer to be free, which from all indication, the air nomads who's defensive strength is derived from their own freedom of movement and flexibility prefer. They just recognize the importance of some planning/training/discipline.

[Shades of Gray]

Explain to me how non-aggressive=good. Explain to me how power=evil. Explain to me how defensive can't be evil.

I'm just saying, pacifists tend towards neutrality and good. Freedom of movement and flexibility does not make someone chaotic. A chaotic person can follow a master, a master who tends towards chaos however. At the beginning of the series, Zuko was Chaotic Evil (I think), he was being trained by Iroh (someone who strikes me as LN, or maybe even LG), he did not appreciate the slow, traditional training of Iroh, which is why he stopped listening to him.

Firebender =/= evil. The only real evil firebenders are cruel followers of the Fire Lord (e.g. the warden), and Firelord Ozai (and Sozin) himself. Most are neutral, lawful neutral at that.

When did I say defensive=good? I'm saying.

I agree that earthbenders=Lawful, and that waterbenders=Good. But I just don't see airbenders being naturally chaotic (more TN to me, maybe even LN), and most firebenders are lawful, just following orders.

[Mephibosheth]

First, how does this sound for a revised Fire Blast text, aimed at clearing up the issue of channeling the blast through an unarmed strike?

The first ability a Firebender learns is Fire Blast. The Firebender generates fire using the heat inside his body and propels it at great speeds toward his foe using a quick jab with his fist. A blast deals 1d6 damage at 1st level (dealing no damage to non-flammable objects and half damage to flammable objects) and increases in power as the firebender gains levels, as shown above. A blast is a ranged attack, and a firebender can use a number of blasts in one round equal to the number of iterative attacks he can make (as determined by his BAB). A firebender cannot apply precision-based damage from any source to the damage dealt by his blasts.

In addition to using his Fire Blasts to attack from range, a firebender can channel his blasts through his unarmed strike, dealing Fire Blast damage in addition to unarmed strike damage. A firebender must make a successful melee attack in order to channel his Fire Blast. Unless otherwise stated, feats and abilities that increase the number of unarmed strikes a firebender can make in a round do not increase the number of Fire Blasts he can make. A firebender using one of these abilities can decide which attacks in his attack routine channel Fire Blasts, but must do so before making an attack roll. If the attack misses, the firebender still counts as having made a Fire Blast. Under normal circumstances, a firebender can make a number of Fire Blast attacks equal to the number of iterative attacks allowed by his Base Attack Bonus.

On the debate over the weapons created by the Ice Shards and Blades of Fire seeds, I don't have an objection to limiting the weapons created to light weapons. The weapon created by Blades of Fire doesn't matter, since the blade only deals Fire Blast damage, and I agree that light weapons are reasonable for Ice Shards. In terms of the inspiration for Ice Shards, imho this scene, where Katara creates knife-like shards of ice and hurls them at Aang, best exemplifies the kind of weapons the seed creates. Sure, she doesn't actually hold them in her hand and throw them or stab with them, but she easily could and the weapons created and their use seem substantially different from the shards she uses to pin Jet in Lake Laogai. I think that limiting the seed to light melee weapons and ammunition rather than just daggers is a good compromise that allows some versitility while keeping the seed realistic.

On the slowing bending debate, I still think that, while lengthening the bending time for forms is a pretty steep penalty, it opens up one more variable that makes the bending system more complex and creates more possibilities for abuse, even at a flat +5 bonus. Plus, it would be difficult to determine to which seeds the ability applies. Working slowly might make it easier to create a wave or golem or tornado, but I don't get how moving slowly will make hurling shards of ice or blasting an opponent with fire easier to accomplish.

I like the new forms people have come up with. I really enjoy that aspect of the system, and hope that we'll see some good forms in the playtesting campaigns.

Finally, don't forget that the alignment notations in the class descriptions are general trends rather than hard and fast rules. They're based on the benders we've seen in the show, and reflect my (I think they're still more-or-less the same descriptions I used on the original benders) perceptions of the philosophies behind both bending and the alignment system. I think they're pretty accurate given what we've seen so far in the show and my knowledge of eastern schools of thought. I'll happily discuss the details of why I think they're appropriate if people are interested. However, if people aren't comfortable with them, we can simply scrap them and say that benders don't necessarily tend toward any alignment.

Mephibosheth

[Sir Shadow]

@pirate king

I really don't think they could make a whip of lightning, it just doesn't seem feasable from what the show depicts of lightning. It's not something they really "bend" so much as "direct".

[Eighth_Seraph]

I like the new text for Fire Blast, but I would add a short clause stating that even when channeling the blast through an unarmed strike, a firebender can only use a number of blasts as determined by his BAB. Just for the munchkins with DMs who don't follow this thread.

As for lengthening bending time to get bonuses; I would say that it's feasible, but with a hard cap of +5 to bending. Changing from Move or Standard to Full-Round is a +2, two full rounds is +4, three full rounds is +5. And, of course, if the practice is interrupted and the bender fails a Concentration check, the bonus is lost. I think it works, even for things like the blasts. For example, a fire blast being charged for three rounds would be something akin to what I do when I'm breaking boards: I make two or three dry runs with a slow-motion punch, stopping just short of the board so I can get the precision down. That may very well take two or three rounds.

I'm actually pretty surprised that nobody said anything along the lines of "No, Ice Shards can't do that!" about the Drillspike form. Cool. In that case, I have an urgent suggestion. Limit the number "Out there" forms that a bender can know, with Intelligence being a useful limiting factor. I've noticed that most benders tend to have signature forms that nobody else ever repeats or imitates, and these tend to be the bender's most powerful abilities. Honestly, I think Octopus Form, which we have under Tentacle right now, falls under here. I'll make a short list to demonstrate this.

Katara: Octopus Form, Water Whip Capture thingy
Combustion Man: 'Splody thing
Toph: Blindsense
Hugh: Plant Golem
Etcetera, etcetera. If we allow benders to use any combination they have the skill to use, then the system will have a major breach. Forms that merely combine the basic functions of seeds, like a good-old-fashioned Water Blast/Ice Shards attack should be universal, but once the entire form is deriving ad hoc crunch from a seed's fluff, there needs to be a limit. thoughts?

[Mephibosheth]

The most important thing about combining seeds (that probably should be mentioned more emphatically in the overview) is that players and DM have to work together to determine what is reasonable and what isn't. Some DM's (myself included, most likely) will want to stick to the canon of the show and will limit combining seeds. Others might be more lenient. Still others might never have seen the show but choose to employ the classes based only on their awesometude and pwntasticness, and will allow all sorts of crazy combinations. That's part of the variability that's so crucial to the system.

So, in response to Sir Shadow's comments, I probably wouldn't allow a lightening whip, but I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be possible in a non-avatar setting. When in doubt, refer to the rule of cool!

Mephibosheth

[Shades of Gray]

No comments about my proposal for bending study feats for martial classes?

Anyway, alternate class feature.

Brute Strength Earthbender
Replaces: Wisdom bonus for bending checks.
Benefit: Strength bonus for bending checks.

You prefer to overwhelm your opponents with your bending, using brute strength over finesse and thinking.

Example Users: The Boulder, The Hippo, and most earthbenders who are about as smart as the rocks they control.

[Ceiling009]

I don't think Brute Strength bending would really work out...
1) no other class has a proposed feature
2) it sort really allows super munchkins; having a slight MAD is good.
Remember that Earthbenders due to the nature of their element are already allowed to use their str mod instead of their dex mod when dealing with ranged bending attacks. And, really, even some of the craziest earthbenders in the show have some sort of understanding and a little discipline with their art.

Also about the study feats... that was proposed, then scrapped (the part about them being used by fighters), and somewhat sort formed parts of what seemed to Lord T's Martial Artist. The Martial Artist actually has 4 different class options for each nation... and more for other interesting styles.

[Superglucose]

I'm just saying, pacifists tend towards neutrality and good. Freedom of movement and flexibility does not make someone chaotic. A chaotic person can follow a master, a master who tends towards chaos however. At the beginning of the series, Zuko was Chaotic Evil (I think), he was being trained by Iroh (someone who strikes me as LN, or maybe even LG), he did not appreciate the slow, traditional training of Iroh, which is why he stopped listening to him.

Sorry but I have to comment: God I love Iroh and I miss him. May his return bring back many moments of amusing wisdom!

[/quote]
Firebender =/= evil. The only real evil firebenders are cruel followers of the Fire Lord (e.g. the warden), and Firelord Ozai (and Sozin) himself. Most are neutral, lawful neutral at that.[quote]
True, but the raw power of firebending tends to attract more evil uses. I beleive it's actually mentioned in the series at some point, when Aang meets his first firebending teacher. Remember that? And the teacher basically says that the power of firebending corrupts most, and that the true masters (read: Iroh) are the ones able to handle that power and not be corrupted. Remember that

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Sozin's hat was handed to him by Roku, and Roku didn't even need to use the other elements. Sozin ended up winning because Roku essentially sacrificed himself to save the island and Sozin didn't help him.

I'm not saying firebenders are evil, I'm just saying that (and there's canonical evidence) firebending, because of the raw power involved, tends to corrupt a little bit more than the other elements.

When did I say defensive=good? I'm saying.

I agree that earthbenders=Lawful, and that waterbenders=Good. But I just don't see airbenders being naturally chaotic (more TN to me, maybe even LN),

Then we're pretty much agreed. But I was arguing that Airbenders definitley don't tend towards good, if anything they tend towards chaos. Yes, they follow Ahisma (ish...) but I believe Aang and Toph both indicate that Airbending requires a fundamental appreciation for the freedom of the wind, or something like that. I'm not saying any bender is naturally anything, just that certain practices tend themselves towards certain beliefs. And to me, nomad=chaos.

[Pirate_King]

Etcetera, etcetera. If we allow benders to use all of these combinations, then the system will have a major breach. Forms that merely combine the basic functions of seeds, like a good-old-fashioned Water Blast/Ice Shards attack should be universal, but once the entire form is deriving ad hoc crunch from a seed's fluff, there needs to be a limit. thoughts?

I'm not really sure how we could limit that, other than allowing benders to create a single signature seed that isn't part of the list. I mean, if it's based on the creativity of the player and the ruling of the DM on whether or not they could pull that off, it's just a matter of whether or not you're really playing your character or just having your character do what you could do if you had these awesome powers. It reminds me of a friend of mine who plays a barbarian, but he himself has insights on the puzzles our DM provides, and our int 9 barbarian solves them because the player forgets his character. Shui Jin probably wouldn't actually do a lightning whip even if it was allowed, because I don't think he'd have the focus (or the ability, I was planning on multiclassing him) It just comes down to how you handle the rp aspect of the game.

on alignment, it really doesn't matter to much because we don't have any alignment based bonuses or penalties, or even alignment based weapons. That part of the rules of the traditional D&D settings don't really have a place in the Avatar world.

[Sir Shadow]

on alignment, it really doesn't matter to much because we don't have any alignment based bonuses or penalties, or even alignment based weapons. That part of the rules of the traditional D&D settings don't really have a place in the Avatar world.

true, in Avatar anyone can act however they want, as long as they deal with the consequences.

[Copacetic]

So, I was looking through the bending overview and classes again and I found that it states that if caught flat-ffoted benders only get one deflect bending attempt. I think we should change it to save you get a number of deflect bending attempt sequal to your dex mod. It makes sense(Kinda)

[Pirate_King]

I think we changed to to getting a reflex save to get a single deflect attempt if caught flat footed. You can never get more deflection attempts than you have attacks by BAB.

[Eighth_Seraph]

So, I was looking through the bending overview and classes again and I found that it states that if caught flat-footed benders only get one deflect bending attempt. I think we should change it to save you get a number of deflect bending attempt sequal to your dex mod. It makes sense(Kinda)

Well, benders originally had no Deflect Bending attempts at all if caught flat-footed; but that led to some crispy waterbenders in playtesting, so we gave them one and put in a balancing factor so that it would still be a significant disadvantage to be caught flat-footed. Honestly, I think the ability is fine as it is.

Also, what's the consensus on slowed bending? I say that it should be possible, but with a hard cap and difficult to get anything out of it. My proposal looks like this: {table=head]Original Bending Time|New Bending Time|DC Decrease

Swift Action

|

Move Action

|

-2
Standard or Move Action

|

Full-round Action

|

-2
Full-Round Action

|

2 rounds

|

-2
2 Full rounds

|

3 rounds

|

-2

[/table]

Modifiers would stack, to a maximum of -5. Of course, we first have to decide if we like the idea at all.

[Sir Shadow]

... I don't really want to call it slowed bending or something like that.

How about a "Focus Chi" feat instead.
The bender takes one round to focus his Chi and recieve a +5? bonus on his next turn to any bending checks.

[Ceiling009]

It shouldn't be a feat, it should be part of the bending overview, as I think quickened bending isn't a feat either, its just something you do. I'm happy with the focused or slow, or something bending, as it does reward handsomely. It also mimics some of the larger and by far more concentration oriented forms presented in the show.