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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Ski or swim, doesn't matter to me either way. It does mess up my earthswim thing, but meh, I'll cope and re-write some of it. I do appreciate your critique though Meph! *puffs with pride*

    Moving on, the same things you were mystified about were really the same things I was stumped on, and I made due by looking at the other benders and making decisions based on where they could flow with each other.

    Now that we're on the subject of things, Firebenders and fire resistance: Agni Kai becomes substantially harder. I understand on some level for them to have fire resist, but at the same time, I dunno, I can't think of something better but it leaves me feeling like they're only good at infighting :P

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    First I have two question:
    What is a precision-based damage and how does it work?
    What about extra racial traits for each nation and/or region.

    Second dealing with Sun and Moon influence, simple they give bonuses and penalties to the bending skill checks to aproapiate to the bender.
    Example Fire benders get +2 bonus to firebending at day and -2 at night
    Waterbenders is a bit more complicated they should get a special bonus when theres a Full Moon and a penalty when theres a new moon and at day.

    The redirect lightning should be an opposed Firebending Skill Check, if succeded the lighting is redirected keeping its origianl statistic to a new target of the characters choice. If failed he must make a save Fort 18 or die because the lightning has struck the heart if this save succeeds the character recives regular lightning damage.
    Last edited by Elathron; 2008-01-07 at 07:01 PM.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Ski or swim, doesn't matter to me either way. It does mess up my earthswim thing, but meh, I'll cope and re-write some of it. I do appreciate your critique though Meph! *puffs with pride*
    Glad to have helped. To be frank though, the earthswim thing was the ability I have the most issues with. But, like I said, I can't think of anything else with which to replace it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Now that we're on the subject of things, Firebenders and fire resistance: Agni Kai becomes substantially harder. I understand on some level for them to have fire resist, but at the same time, I dunno, I can't think of something better but it leaves me feeling like they're only good at infighting :P
    My impression was that Agni Kai wasn't usually a duel to the death, but rather a duel till first singe (teehee) or until dominance is clear. I recall when Zuko and Zhao fought. Zuko didn't kill Zhao, but the winner of that Agni Kai was still clear.

    How 'bout a compromise. What if we gave Firebenders and Endure Elements effect at 5th level, Fire Resistance 5 at 10th level, Cold Resistance 5 at 15th level, and Cold and Fire Resistance 10 at 20th level. That way, Firebenders could still hurt each other with their fire blasts, but the ability of Firebenders to endure averse environmental conditions (as when Zuko avoided a firey death when his ship was destroyed by pirates with blasting gelly and when he avoided a frosty death while swimming the waters of the north pole).

    Thoughts?

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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Elathron View Post
    First I have two question:
    What is a precision-based damage and how does it work?
    What about extra racial traits for each nation and/or region.
    I'm neither for nor against it. I'd like to see what you might come up with, or if you have some ideas that need fleshing out/statting up, everyone here'll help you do so. As far as precision based damage, it's damage like Sneak Attack, Skirmish, Critical Hits, and Sudden Strike.

    Second dealing with Sun and Moon influence, simple they give bonuses and penalties to the bending skill checks to aproapiate to the bender.
    Example Fire benders get +2 bonus to firebending at day and -2 at night
    Waterbenders is a bit more complicated they should get a special bonus when theres a Full Moon and a penalty when theres a new moon and at day.
    I'd rather leave that to a feat myself. Child of the Sun / Moon. Get a +2 or +4 bending check bonus during your time of day, or +2 BL, and at off times get the opposing. Something along those lines. Someone I believe actually did put something together for that, so if that person is lurking, you should repost them, perhaps?

    The redirect lightning should be an opposed Firebending Skill Check, if succeded the lighting is redirected keeping its origianl statistic to a new target of the characters choice. If failed he must make a save Fort 18 or die because the lightning has struck the heart if this save succeeds the character recives regular lightning damage.
    Redirect Lightning is actually something I'm trying to get removed from the Lightning Seed (the more I think about it, the more I think it shouldn't have anything to do with the lightning seed as Zuko can't make lightning but he can redirect it). And then it comes down to a firebending check to retarget the strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephibosheth View Post
    How 'bout a compromise. What if we gave Firebenders and Endure Elements effect at 5th level, Fire Resistance 5 at 10th level, Cold Resistance 5 at 15th level, and Cold and Fire Resistance 10 at 20th level. That way, Firebenders could still hurt each other with their fire blasts, but the ability of Firebenders to endure averse environmental conditions (as when Zuko avoided a firey death when his ship was destroyed by pirates with blasting gelly and when he avoided a frosty death while swimming the waters of the north pole).
    I like this idea better, the resistances and such. Firebenders are a hardly lot in that regard and it makes sense. Zuko's undersea adventure definitely included uses of Fire in the Stomach as well, but his ability to survive in the cold wastes as he dragged Aang too would count for his cold resistance. Also, he did take some minor scorching from the burning ship.

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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    About the Bending study feats, I think I might have found a replacement for the Earthswim ability. How about something like this?

    Soften Earth

    Concentration: Standard Action
    When this power is used, it causes up to 5 Cubic feet/per level of natural, undressed earth or stone within 30 feet of the Earth Bender to be softened. Wet earth becomes thick mud, dry earth becomes loose sand or dirt, and stone becomes soft clay that is easily molded or chopped. You affect a 5-foot square area to a depth of 1 to 4 feet, depending on the Earth Benders desire at that time. Dressed, or worked stone cannot be affected. A creature in mud must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 12+ Wisdom modifier) or be caught for 1d2 rounds and unable to move or attack. A creature that succeeds on its save can move through the mud at half speed, and it canít run or charge.

    Loose dirt is not as troublesome as mud, but all creatures in the area can move at only half their normal speed and canít run or charge over the surface.

    Stone softened into clay does not hinder movement, but it does allow characters to cut, shape, or excavate areas they
    may not have been able to affect before. While soften earth and stone does not affect dressed or worked stone, cavern ceilings or vertical surfaces such as cliff faces can be affected. Usually, this causes a moderate collapse or landslide as the loosened material peels away from the
    face of the wall or roof and falls. A moderate amount of structural damage can be dealt to a manufactured structure by softening the ground beneath it, causing it to settle. However, most well-built structures will only be damaged by this ability, not destroyed. Once the Earth Bender ceases concentration on this ability, the earth reverts back to its normal state within 1d6 rounds.

    OR an ability that basically uses the spell Rock to Mud/Mud to Rock. There are instances of this occurring in the show, like when that one Earth General buries Katara up to her neck he doesn't use the Rift seed, it looks more like he turned the earth into quicksand.

    Speaking of which, if I'm not mistaken the subject of Sandbending has been almost completely neglected. Maybe there should be a feat for it or something?

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Dolphin Safe; 2008-01-07 at 07:48 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Yeah I know it has nothing to do with lightning but you should keep in mind that Iroh states its very degenrous to redirect lightning even deadly if it touches your heart.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Elathron View Post
    Yeah I know it has nothing to do with lightning but you should keep in mind that Iroh states its very degenrous to redirect lightning even deadly if it touches your heart.
    Well, if you fail, you get hit by lightning. I'd say it's dangerous, yeah ;)

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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I like the idea of watebending study giving earthbenders a Transmute mud to stone and vice versa ability. That would be handy. And flavorful.
    Last edited by FlyMolo; 2008-01-07 at 08:51 PM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    [/nonexistence]

    I thought of the Agni Kai when I gave Firebenders fire resistance. Take a closer look at the description of fire resistance: firebenders can overcome fire resistance of other benders to the same degree as their own resistance...Or at least they could when I wrote it. There doesn't seem to be anything about it in this new draft. Just letting you know; feel free to scrap the idea if it still seems to be inappropriate.

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    Last edited by Eighth_Seraph; 2008-01-07 at 09:17 PM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    The more thought I give to the idea of the Bending study feat, the more it seems like it's just a vehicle for new seeds.

    I think the feat really need only be taken to study the element that is opposite to the Benders own. You see, the two elements adjacent to the Bender's own are obviously similar and are associated with a few similar ideas or technique. Because those elements are so similar, most things that say an Airbender would learn from Waterbenders, or a Firebender from an Airbender, are already accounted for in that Bender's normal seeds.

    The feat really only seems to be necessary when a Bender wants to learn a technique that is opposite to the general tendencies of their own element. For example, an Earthbender could learn from an Airbender the intangibility of air and mimic the idea with their Earthbending, via the mastery of something like sandbending, a combination of the hard aspects of Earth with the light, drifting, aspects of Air.

    That said, I think the benefits gained from the Bending Study feat by studying the opposite element are perfect; except for the Waterbender one. It seems like the power of Fire lies not in it's intensity, ( that's Earthbending and sometimes Waterbending) but in it's all consuming nature, it's sheer number of attacks. So, maybe it would be good to give the Waterbender a Water version of the Firestorm ability when they study Fire.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    The more thought I give to the idea of the Bending study feat, the more it seems like it's just a vehicle for new seeds.

    I think the feat really need only be taken to study the element that is opposite to the Benders own. You see, the two elements adjacent to the Bender's own are obviously associated with similar ideas and techniques. Because those elements are so similar, most things that say an Airbender would learn from Waterbenders, or a Firebender from an Airbender, are already accounted for in that Bender's normal seeds; those things are only minor variations from the main precepts of a particular element.

    The feat really only seems to be necessary when a Bender wants to learn a technique that is opposite to the general tendencies of their own element. For example, the Waterbender's subtle technique of redirection is usually foreign to the all-aggressive Firebender's mindset. A good deal of contemplation and study, the equivalent of a feat, is necessary for a Firebender to understand redirection and the philosophy behind it. From there, a Firbender could develop a technique like the Redirection of Lightning.

    That said, I think the benefits gained from the Bending Study feat by studying the opposite element are perfect; except for the Waterbender one. It seems like the power of Fire lies not in it's intensity, ( that's Earthbending and sometimes Waterbending) but in it's all consuming nature, it's sheer number of attacks. So, maybe it would be good to give the Waterbender a Water version of the Firestorm ability when they study Fire.
    Last edited by Dolphin Safe; 2008-01-07 at 10:31 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Elathron:

    Welcome to the project! I think your conception of the day/night variation for firebenders and waterbenders is what most of us have in mind. We just havenít written anything down yet. Iíd say something small like +/-1 would be appropriate, with waterbenders gaining +5 during a full moon and firebenders gaining a +5 during a comet. Or something like that.

    To be honest, I like basing Redirect Lightening on Concentration rather than Firebending. Concentration needs some love, in my opinion. Plus, the show never establishes that more powerful benders can shoot lightening thatís harder to redirect. Zuko seems to redirect Ozaiís lightening well enough, and Ozaiís supposed to be the baddest man on the planet. Maybe scale the Concentration DC a little bit (DC 15+1 per 4 levels of the bender shooting the lightening).

    Eighth_Seraph:

    How did I not notice that? It must have been eliminated from the PDF draft. I like the idea a lot. How Ďbout opposed Firebending checks instead of automatically overcoming the resistance. Make Agni Kai a bit more combative, eh? What do you think of my proposed resistance package? Better or worse?

    General Redirect Lightening:

    I support the idea of removing it from the Lightning seed and having it solely a function of the Waterbending Study feat. Unless thereís significant objection soon, Iíll make the change. I also support changing the wording so that a firebender can use Redirect Lighting whenever he/she has a Deflect Attack attempt available instead of requiring a special readied action. What says the community?

    Bending Study:

    Hmm, I like the idea of softening the earth, but earthbenders already have seeds that allow them to do that. What if we gave them a Circular Attack attempt, but only usable when attacked by earthbending. Kind of like Toph does here?

    I also think we should still keep the Bending Study feats available for all element combinations, rather than limiting them to opposed elements. Some of those abilities are just too cool to pass up.

    Edit: I don't support giving waterbenders a version of Firestorm. Waterbending seeds are slower and more fluid than firebending seeds, and I don't think we should speed that up. Perhaps the best illustration of what I mean is when we see Roku testing out his Avatar abilities and bending all four elements simultaneously in The Avatar and the Fire Lord. His waterbending is substantially slower than his other bending forms.

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    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2008-01-07 at 11:23 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Bending Study:
    There's no evidence of the study of adjacent elements in the show, nor evidence of the abilities that kind of study confers according to the feat. If we really are sticking to the show here, than we should drop those unsupported abilities. If not, then I say we just add those cool abilities either as new seeds or feats, but it's going to be a free-for-all...

    Waterbender:
    This is unsupported extrapolation, as we haven't seen what a water bender can do because of studying firebenders, but remember when Katara was Waterbending the Octopus form in "The Crossroads" episode? Or when Master Paku and her were fighting? She was moving damn fast. Have you seen a Tai Chi (waterbending) master perform a 28 set form at full speed? It's like watching a fountain of water incarnate, but it also is very similar to the quick movements of Northern Shaolin (firebending), though not as extended. Look at this and this and this.

    At very high levels, as necessary for the Bending Study feat, a Waterbender could learn to move quickly and basically gain a water version of the Firestorm ability. That's the whole point of the feat after all, learning ways of doing things that defy the stereotype of a particular element.

    Earthbender:
    I like giving Earthbenders the option of a Circular Attack, but as a feat separate from the Bending Study Feat, as it's not so different from other Earthbending maneuvers. Now giving the Earthbenders Evasion based seeds, that would be a Bending Study feat.
    What seeds allow an Earthbender to use Soften Earth or Mud to Rock?

    Redirect Lightning:
    Also, I totally agree with the changes to Redirect Lightning. It makes a lot of sense considering that neither Zuko nor Iroh appear to have been watching specifically for a Lightning attack - readying an action - before they used the Redirect ability.

    Sandbending:
    Where is teh Sandbenders? They were so cool, and they had a big part in the show, but we don't have them here... Anyone have any ideas about how to incorporate it? Feats? Seeds? PrC's?
    Last edited by Dolphin Safe; 2008-01-08 at 12:12 PM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Actually, I think i posted the feat for the different times, and the power up that is associated, Child of the Midnight Ocean/Noonday Sky, It was a really long name.

    The thing about that feat though is that I don't think it should have any real drawbacks, a +2 to your bending check, at your proper time should be fine, without you receiving a -2 at your off time. If it were a +4 or +5, then I see a foreseeable drop in bending ability at your off time, cause remember, you can get feats that add +2 to two skills all the time, without any requirements or drawbacks (alertness anyone?).

    In fact, here's my (new) draft:

    Child of the Sun/Moon
    You are quite in tune with your bending art's true source, either the sun or the moon, thus when in the proper time of day, your art is that much stronger.
    Prequisites: Firebender level 1 or Waterbender level 1, Wisdom 13
    Benefit:
    Waterbender - At night you add +2 bonus to all your bending checks. In the case of a full moon, you add a +5? bonus to your bending checks.
    Firebender - In the day, you receive a +2 bonus to all your bending checks. In the case of a comet, you +5 bonus to your bending checks.

    I think about when bending will fail, like during eclipses should be outlined in the mechanics and description of bending, as it's more a ubiquitous thing with water and fire benders. It's almost better as a free feat added into the class abilities for fire or waterbenders, as theoretically, all firebenders and waterbenders get an edge during thier respective times. The only foreseeable problem is that Air and Earth benders have nothing to my recollection in the show, as to times or areas or anything of the like that would give them a theoretical edge. Maybe during storms, Airbenders may get an edge, as the already flowing winds empower them? Maybe, as with Toph, if an Earthbender willfully closes their eyes and takes all penalties for fighting blind, their earthbending might get stronger (after all molebadgers are blind too)?

    On Fire Resistance
    I like the endure elements idea more, as with two firebenders, the extra rolling would be I think too much of a... hassle. It means that if you hit, you have to roll a firebending check to see if you actually do any damage. It's not Firebenders are really immune or reallly resistant to fire more than what I think endure elements would be, and capping out at 10... That extra rolling just seems to much to represent that in firebenders. I mean every bender, but fire gets a movement type increase, and oddly enough, watching Zuko and Azula, they seem to get a run speed more than flying, climbing or water walking. They are really really mobile, compared to let's say waterbenders, and most earthbenders (minus the dai lee) almost on par with Aang.

    Also, I'm quite in favor of scrapping the Waterwalk seed and make it a standard class ability, as so far, no one but Katara (which since season 1, is really the only waterbender in the show) really seems be able to walk on water, and she seems to do it without much concentration. In fact all through out the painted lady episode, she basically treated that river like another extension of land.

    Edit: Is it just me, or do benders, minus the firebenders, move faster through their special movement, than their actual movement? Looking that Iconic's Thread, it seems that Katara can swim 60 ft, while her normal movement is still 30... I think all benders should probably get a few incremental movement bonuses, and a few less special movement increments. Firebenders should also get some movement bonuses period.
    Last edited by Ceiling009; 2008-01-08 at 08:34 PM.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin Safe View Post
    Waterbender:
    This is unsupported extrapolation, as we haven't seen what a water bender can do because of studying firebenders, but remember when Katara was Waterbending the Octopus form in "The Crossroads" episode, against like 50 firebenders? She was moving damn fast. Have you seen a Tai Chi (waterbending) master perform a 28 set form at full speed? It's like watching a fountain of water incarnate, but it also is very similar to the quick movements of Northern Shaolin (firebending), though not as extended. Look at this and this and this.

    At very high levels, as necessary for the Bending Study feat, a Waterbender could learn to move quickly and basically gain a water version of the Firestorm ability. That's the whole point of the feat after all, learning ways of doing things that defy the stereotype of a particular element.
    To be fair, there were only two fire benders at the end of cross roads, Zuko and Azula. The rest were Dai Li, and when they all showed up, Katara hadn't actually begun an attack, she created the octopus for defense, and everyone was just sort of standing around. Though, she had earlier managed to match Zuko blow for blow, in terms of speed...

    I've also worked out some variation on weather effects, sort of simpler, sort of not, but more universal rather than feat based:

    the following environmental conditions add a +2 circumstance bonus to a firebender's bending checks (these stack with the DM's approval):
    within an hour of mid-day(the sun is the greatest source of fire)
    close proximity to Volcano, fault-line, or other great source of
    heat(DM's call)
    Summer solstice or equvilent(earth is closest to the sun [or vise-versa,
    in the case of irregularly shaped worlds])

    the following environmental conditions add a -2 circumstance penalty to a firebender's bending checks (these stack with the DM's wrath):
    within an hour of midnight ("You with the moon. I rise with the sun")
    cold rain or snow
    Winter solstice or equivilent (see above, only furthest)

    Then just reverse everything for waterbenders.
    Last edited by Pirate_King; 2008-01-08 at 10:30 AM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Oh... good point, Pirate. That was stupid of me. Fixed.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    So, the question on bending study feats now becomes, "Should we extrapolate the idea of cross-discipline learning into combinations not demonstrated in the show, or should we limit the idea to a Waterbending Learning feat that grants the Redirect Lightning ability to firebenders?"

    We should answer this question before we proceed. I can't remember if we've had this discussion before, so unless anyone can remember, we should resolve this issue now.

    On the Child of the Sun and Moon issue, I think the show indicates that the night/day sensitivity is a class feature rather than a feat. None of the firebenders and waterbenders in the Siege of the North episodes remain unaffected by the rising and setting of the moon and sun. I think that, ultimately, it should be a class feature but the penalties/bonuses should be small (+/- 2 at most) with the exception of full moons, comets, and eclipses (during which firebending and waterbending are impossible). However, I'm willing to go with the consensus on this. I do think, however, that +/- 5 is too much.

    Pirate_King's list of environmental conditions is interesting, but I can't really think of any examples of these factors substantially affecting bending in the show, other than night/day, full moons, comets, and eclipses. If we can find concrete examples, then I'm fine with it, but until then...

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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Well, my take is that I like the Bending Study feats (obviously, as I wrote them up!) and I think that if we learned anything from the Guru when he was teaching Aang to unlock his chakras, was that the elements are not so different separate. One could then pull from that while only one can be the Avatar, there's nothing saying that you couldn't learn a thing or three from the other elements. So I vote "yay" on Bending Study feats, plainly, we need more bending feats.

    The Sun/Moon thing, I could see that being okay as a class feature with a +/- 2 thing depending on time of day (as well as plot relevant stuff, i.e. eclipses). I think it could be good. So "yay" on this as well.

    -X

    P.S. I did a little revising on the bending study feats last night, if anyone wants to check back at them.
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2008-01-08 at 02:10 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Bending Study: I vote yes for multi-element effects.
    Sun/Moon: I vote yes for small bonuses applying to everyone.

    Sandbending was being dealt with a while ago, but it got pushed to the back burner. Unfortunately, that has happened several times: in the midst of discussion a new idea gets brought up, and everybody focuses on that. It just seems to be one of those things that happens with a project as broad as this one.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    The trouble with Sandbenders and Sandbending in general is simply we don't know enough about it to really do anything with it. It looks like some fusion of Airbending and Earthbending, but primarily looks (to me anyway) more like Airbending then Earth. I'd suggest a 1-3 (tops 1-5) PrC for Sandbending with low reqs and specific seeds for them to chose from. Otherwise... I dunno what to do with them. They're weird :P

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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I don't quite see the point of implementing a penalty for the off times, as if this was a feat, or ever a class feature, it would be just... well odd, as lots of the +2 skill feats barely have any prerequisites, and if anything are always "on". Having a temporal restriction on feat or ability, that is normally looked over as mostly useless, in this case, it's actually useful, and then having it have a penalty, I think is way too much. I doubt, the waterbenders are actually weaker in the daytime, or that it is the same with firebenders at night. At best, I'm sure that they get better at their respective halves of the day instead. I mean they say "I rise with the moon/sun" but they never say they "fall" when switching times. I think I'll edit my draft of the feat to put it more in line with that...

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Ok... well, my idea for the Bending Study feat was to allow Earthbenders to learn something about Air, Airbenders something about Earth, Waterbenders something about Fire, and Firebenders something about Water. Not just limiting it to Firebenders getting the Redirect Lightning ability.

    Then the other abilities that are listed in the Feat right now could just be added as seeds instead of as Feats. See, the other abilities don't sound like they would require a lot of study of other elements; They're more just creative, non-canon applications of Bending abilities... So, that was my proposition.

    About Sandbending, I like the idea of a Sandbender PrC that would give access to sand specific seeds, like Dustdevils and Sandstorms. There could also be an Earthbender feat that allows Earthbenders to bend sand just like any other earth, like a Sandbending template or something? It could be a prerequisite for the PrC or just a useful ability for an Earthbender to have.
    Last edited by Dolphin Safe; 2008-01-08 at 09:04 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephibosheth View Post
    How did I not notice that? It must have been eliminated from the PDF draft. I like the idea a lot. How Ďbout opposed Firebending checks instead of automatically overcoming the resistance. Make Agni Kai a bit more combative, eh? What do you think of my proposed resistance package? Better or worse?
    Eh, what package is that? If you just mean the same resistances, but with a firebending check to overcome them, I think it's a possibility and a hassle, which is the general theme of this project over the original in the first place. In this case, though, I think that overcoming fire resistance will get very tiresome in most situations. We could make it into a specific system for Agni Kai, much like the rules for dueling that were proposed in another thread sometime last year. It makes sense to me to have opposed bending checks instead of Deflect Bending when two benders of the same element are involved, but it would be an incredible pain to not only make the rules, but carry them out. It would be fine in duel situations, but I think that in general, straight resistance with an easily calculated way to get around it is the best way to go.

    Bending Study
    Also, I REALLY like the new bending studies feats, even if one or two of the effects are a bit on the weak side (eliminating a -2 penalty to Deflect Bending hardly seems feat worthy for benders with little or no bonus feats). Also, even though the show doesn't explicitly say that elements aside from your opposite can be learned from, I think that the Guru's words and common sense can be used to extrapolate this. That and it's really cool, and there's no reason not to do it.

    Also, I like the idea of the Avatar getting the benefit of these feats for every element he learns as a bender of every discipline he knows. Therefore, Aang would have Airbending Study, Waterbending Study and Earthbending Study, gaining the benefits of each as an airbender, waterbender and earthbender. Maybe he'd get the benefits as a firebender since the encounter with the Sun Warriors, but that's doubtful right now.

    The sun/moon
    There doesn't need to be a feat to gain these bonuses. That's very clearly shown in the show, unless every waterbender at the north pole and Hama and Katara took the feat for a once-a-month power boost. When the full moon's up, all waterbenders gain a significant boost. Just how significant is the question. +5, I think, is not too much, judging from the show. Unbalancing? Maybe. But true to the show nonetheless. I'm leaning more towards a +10 for all waterbenders during the full moon (did you see Master Paku tearing up those tanks like construction paper? Or that one waterbender hold off four firebender soldiers on a tornado of a water spout?). Yes, it's a large boost, but thematically appropriate. For normal nights, a straight +2 seems fine, since it's not going to be overlooked, but not too unbalancing considering the extremely few modifiers going into Bending checks.

    As for firebenders and the sun, a solid +2 whenever the sun shines brightly in the sky seems fine by me. I would actually prefer for firebenders to gain the bonus near noontime, but the show doesn't support that. Zuko made his decisive statement "You rise with the moon, I rise with the sun" at sunrise, and demonstrated the difference it made shortly afterwards.

    Whatever numbers we actually fit in here, they should go either as class features or in the Bending Overview. Definitely not feats, definitely not seeds.
    Last edited by Eighth_Seraph; 2008-01-08 at 10:14 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I agree that it's a class feature more than anything else, and make a note if source of the bending, the sun, the moon, earth, and I guess wind, that the respective benders should lose their bending abilities, in the bending overview? Or rather, since it's not shown in the show, all earthbenders and airbenders really can't be taken away from their element (even when surrounded by metal, bumi... and well toph can still bend).

    Hmmm, it's a good trade, or almost poetic balance that fire and water can lose their ability to bend, but gain a palatable edge during certain times, while the earth and air never really lose their ability to bend, but gain no extra edge.

    As for that +10 to bending checks during full moons... I think it should be +5. I'm still up for the feat to make it that would represent someone even more in tune with the moon... where if you take it, you can possibly add let's say you bending levels to your check?

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    It has been stated earlier that so few DM's pay attention to the time of day. As that is the case, I think sun/moon and weather effects should be limited to those, without the addition of full moon feats. The only time most DM's would pay attention to the phases of the moon are when they use lycanthropes or, in the case of an Avatar setting, plot points. Rather than working with a game mechanic, players of waterbenders would have to constantly remind the DM of this awesome feat they've got so he'd make it a full moon sometime. I could just be rambling, but I feel that adding a feat to this sort of feature is just too much hassle.

    Sandbending! I've sort of got an idea for this. Perhaps when an earthbender reaches a certain level, say, third, they can choose to access a different set of sandbending seeds and no longer be able to take the normal earth ones. From what we see of sandbenders, they seem to be limited in their special ability. This, however, requires that we make a new set of seeds, or at least determine a new way for the old ones to work with sand only. Can anyone remember a sandbender that worked with earth that wasn't sand?
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephishobeth
    Hmm, I like the idea of softening the earth, but earthbenders already have seeds that allow them to do that. What if we gave them a Circular Attack attempt, but only usable when attacked by earthbending. Kind of like Toph does here?
    Well, my problem with that is exactly what redirect lightning is, but slightly broader. When I was writing the bending study feats, I looked at what each bender could do and thought of a way to weaken it and then apply it to the other bender's elements. Fire gained Water's circular attack by the canon of the show, so I ventured that the earthbenders could get earthswim. Bumi used it, other Earthbenders have done it, just seemed natural. I understand that you'd prefer to make it part of a seed, but if you look at what I did with most of the other bending study feats, they all learn something that the others already know. If you all want me to change it to a circular attack variant, I will, but I figured I should present my reasoning behind the earthswim ability.

    -X
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Ok, cool, consensus seems to be keeping the Bending Study feat as is.

    The one thing that bugs me about the feat, is the ability a Firebender gains by studying Earthbending. It just seems like it doesn't really show the Firbender learning a philosophical concept from Earth, just how to climb well. Maybe, instead, they could be given the ability to use Steady Stance like this.

    Stabilizing herself with two explosive stomps, a Firebender may blast holes into the ground to lock himself in place. Feet solidly connected to the ground, the Firebender gains a +2 to saves or checks to stay in place, +1 for every point by which the Firebending check exceeds the DC.

    ErrantX: Really, Redirect Lightning isn't a Circular Attack. It just Redirects, keeping the lightning from doing damage, not using it as a recycled weapon.

    Sandbending
    I think you've got a good idea there Pirate. The only problem is we didn't get to see much of what Sandbenders are capable of in the show. But, I imagine that, since they live in the desert, they rarely ever need to bend normal earth, and thus don't practice it.

    How about this, we give them the ability to pull small particles away from nearby stone to create a certain quantity of sand. This way, Sandbenders will be plausible outside of a desert setting as well.

    Or they could just go the way of Gaara from Naruto and carry around a big jug of sand everywhere...

    As for seeds, how about these?

    Sand Shield
    Base DC: 15
    As a move aciton, this technique creates several thin bands of sand that swirl and twist around the Earthbender, helping to deflect incoming attacks. The sand does not make it harder to see the Earthbender, but it grants her a +4 deflection bonus to her AC. Maintaining the Sand Shield for more than two rounds gives a -4 penalty to all Earthbending checks until the Earthbender ends the seed, increasing by -1 every two turns. If this penalty actually causes an Earthbender to fail a Earthbending check, she may choose to end the seed and remove the penalty at that time. An Earthbender can concentrate on maintaining this seed as a Swift action. The Earthbender must be within 10ft of a handful of sand.

    Dust Devil
    Base DC: 30
    By manipulating the sand the Earthbender creates a whirlwind made entirely of sand and loose dirt. The Dust Devil is 5 feet in radius and may be up to 20 feet in height. Anytime a Dust Devil enters a creatures square, that creature takes 3d8 damage, Reflex save half. The movement of the swirl sand is equal to the Earthbender's base movement. The Swirl Sandís base must always be touching the ground. Creatures within the Swirl Sand have concealment, while those on the other side have total concealment.

    Sand Benders also use this ability to move their sand skids, it creates a slight breeze (max of 10mph) that pushes
    on the sails of their sand skids.
    Last edited by Dolphin Safe; 2008-01-09 at 01:57 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin Safe View Post
    ErrantX: Really, Redirect Lightning isn't a Circular Attack. It just Redirects, keeping the lightning from doing damage, not using it as a recycled weapon.
    I dunno, I disagree with this. Zuko obviously used it as a recycled weapon. When Ozai fired it he absorbed it and then returned fire with the same bolt of lightning. Zuko can't make lightning, so... where'd it come from otherwise? Circular Attack per se is deflecting a blast with a quantity of swirling water which washes around goes back at the attacker as a water blast. But at the end of the day, they're both counter attacks. That's what I meant. A defensive action that turns into an offensive action.

    -X
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Hey I now its of topic but I am been reading the non bending classes and thought it might be a good idea to use Iron Heroes martial classes intead and system. Due mainly that it's a non magical system.
    Basically characters gain 2 feats at first lvl and every 2 lvls instead of three.
    Skills are divided into groups and there for can be raised as groups and skills maybe used to do stunts in combat.
    Also as it a human only setting you choose to starting traits from a list such "Desert Born".
    Basically all the system was build in order for characters not to have Magic Items what so ever and orientated to combat.

    By the way whats a "swift action"

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Bending Study:

    Alright, looks like the consensus is to keep them largely as they are. And the more I think about it, the more Iím ok with the earthswim ability for Waterbending Study (though I still support replacing the waterbenderís swim speed with a ski ability). I also like Dolphin Safeís steady stance suggestion for the Earthbending Study fire ability. How Ďbout something like:

    Fire: Inspired by earthbendingís stability and strong root, a firebender learns to use his bending abilities to improve his ability to stand strong. As a move action, a firebender can melt the earth under his feet, creating small footholds or depressions in the earth. This grants him a bonus against bull rush, overrun, and trip attempts and any other effect that would cause him to involuntarily leave his space equal to his Wisdom modifier. This bonus ends if the firebender leaves his square for any reason. A firebender can only use this ability while standing on an earthen surface, and cannot use it while prone or flatfooted.

    Sun/Moon Affinity:

    Yay consensus! Iíll add a class feature to both firebenders and waterbenders that gives them a +2 bonus during the relevant times of day, a +5 bonus during the relevant celestial events (full moons and comets, respectively), and removes bending abilities during eclipses.

    Sandbending:

    ErrantX expresses my feelings on sandbending pretty well when he says that we just donít know enough to justify a PrC. At most, we know of three bending seeds (steady stance, whirlwind, and some sort of geyser seed), and not much else. Until we learn more, I support keeping this on the back burner, as cool as it is.

    Dolphin Safe, I like your Dust Devil seed, but I think it should focus more on providing propulsion for sand sailors and less on damage in combat. Not to say that a dust devil shouldnít be able to do damage, but rather that you should flesh out how it can be used to propel a sand sailor in greater detail. What speed does it grant? What degree of maneuverability?

    Non-Bending Classes:

    People have suggested the Iron Kingdoms classes a few times, but Iím hesitant to deviate from the core merely because we donít want to infringe on any copyright or require people to purchase any supplements to use our setting. Plus, Lord Tartaraus and Eighth_Seraph have both done some amazing work on non-bending classes. The project hub has links to both sets of classes. Weíve also been able to use core base classes to represent iconic characters from the show. Here again, the project hub has a link to the discussion thread. Finally, weíve been trying to make these classes balanced against the core base classes, but only playtesting will show whether weíve succeeded. Either way, I donít really support the use of the Iron Kingdoms classes because of the availability issue.

    Elathron:

    A swift action is essentially a free action, but you can only take one swift action per round (as opposed to free actions which can be used with impunity). Check out the SRD page on combat actions for more information.

    Quickened Bending:

    This brings up an issue that was raised a while ago and never really resolved; the possibility of reducing bending time by increasing the bending skill DC. I just want to go on record in opposition to this idea, merely because of the potential it has to completely unbalance benders. Weíve seen in playtesting the effectiveness of seeds like Wave and Immobilize, and seeds like Lightning could easily become overpowered when you reduce the bending time. The ability to quicken is one of the things that make spellcasters overpowered, and I donít think itís something we want to bring into our system.

    Mephibosheth
    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2008-01-09 at 11:28 AM.
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