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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceiling009 View Post
    Now that I think about it, Water Whip should be a template added to blasts and ice shards; and let it allow to do more, at least threaten squares.
    I still see absolutely no reason to mix Ice Shards into this situation at all. There are no shards of ice involved in any application of Water Whip we've yet seen. Also, the concept of a whip made of water is completely different from that of Water Blast. It is not pressurized water being launched at someone, but rather a volumed of water controlled in such a way as to inflict some minor bruises, wrap around objects, or push and pull others. The concept does not fit a template form at all.

    The concept of incorporating Water Whip into the Tentacle seed does hold some value, though. I still hold that the two should be separate seeds, but I can definitely see the similarities between the two, and how the concepts and canon background of the seeds are similar.

    On the topic of weapons made of ice; it seems to me that the canon we've seen does limit weapons made of ice to small slivers. I suppose that a waterbender could make a sword made from ice with a simple application of Manipulate's 'shape' ability; but the result of this would be difficult to determine. From what we've seen, any ice a waterbender makes is just plain ice, which would chip badly from any hard contact with metal armor, especially if the temperature is above freezing. I wouldn't include a weapon-making aspect in the Ice Shards seed, but you're welcome to make a simple Ice Shards/Manipulate form (pending DM approval) that would have a DC 19, usually doable by taking 10 at 1st level.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    A friend of mine just pointed out to me that you could combine ice shards with water whip; make ice shards within the whip for more damage, sort of like a slushee of death.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Slushee of death. Heh.

    Anyways, the reason there were no shards of ice involved was because she use Ice Shards+Melt/Freeze, or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. OR the seed should be that it makes the weapon out of water and then those instances of an ice weapon are a result of this new seed (replacing Water Whip) plus Melt/Freeze. Ice Shards could be revamped to include no weapon creation bits, or could be added to that in some fashion. I think this second one makes more sense, at least to me it does. It's easier to form water and not have it be ice, correct? And then with more work you make it ice. I mean, Ice Shards is already a pretty big seed.

    As for small weapons being the only things created, there is a very good explanation: Weapon Finesse. If you can't use the bigger weapons, why create them? Small weapons are faster, and since benders tend to be fast rather than strong, it makes sense to use it. Just because you can make bigger weapons doesn't mean you have to, and just because you don't doesn't mean you can't.

    That ice hardness was another problem, is there any way for them to increase the hardness of ice? See Frostburn for more details on using ice.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    That ice hardness was another problem, is there any way for them to increase the hardness of ice? See Frostburn for more details on using ice.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Doh, didn't think to look there.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    OR the seed should be that it makes the weapon out of water and then those instances of an ice weapon are a result of this new seed (replacing Water Whip) plus Melt/Freeze. Ice Shards could be revamped to include no weapon creation bits, or could be added to that in some fashion. I think this second one makes more sense, at least to me it does. It's easier to form water and not have it be ice, correct? And then with more work you make it ice. I mean, Ice Shards is already a pretty big seed.
    The reason Water Whip is its own seed is because it is the only weapon we've ever seen made from water, and the fluidity of it fits the waterbender mentality. Dman, don't forget that the purpose of this system is not to make an infinite amount of possibilities, but rather to make as many possibilities as possible while staying within the boundaries of the Avatar world as we've seen it in the show. The Weapon application of Ice Shards does not involve making a dagger out of ice. All the waterbender is doing is taking a shard of ice and using it as an improvised without taking a penalty. We've had this discussion in the past, and this is what we decided goes along best with what we've seen. My original write-up of the seed allowed the creation of any weapon the bender was proficient with, but we decided against that.

    The purpose of this project from the beginning was to represent the show as well as possible. Adding nothing, taking nothing away. Admittedly, this is a difficult thing for any homebrewer to do, but that's our goal nonetheless. If you want to "make the show better" by adding a new seed or a new section to a seed, take it to the non-canon thread. The Bending Study feats were unfortunately based largely upon extrapolation, because the canon that required their creation wasn't extensive enough to base worthwhile abilities on.
    Anyways, the reason there were no shards of ice involved was because she use Ice Shards+Melt/Freeze, or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    I don't see any reason for that. Katara needed to use Melt/Freeze in order to get some water for the whip, yes, but the seed Ice Shards is definitely all about making and using shards of ice. If the execution of the form does not utilize shards of ice in any way, we can be reasonably certain that the Ice Shards seed was not applied.
    Last edited by Eighth_Seraph; 2008-05-28 at 08:58 PM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    The melt/freeze thing was a method of justifying my stance, nothing more. I mean, it's another way of getting a whip made of water, is it not? So was my thought exercise not successful?

    Though you could have fooled me with the weapon part of Ice Shards. I guess when it says

    ...a waterbender may craft any ordinarily wooden or metal melee weapon or ammunition she is familiar with...
    it doesn't really mean any. And all I was saying is that just because they haven't done it, doesn't mean they can't. And judging by the physics, they probably can, they just don't want to. Heck, they'll probably take non-proficiency penalties if they form a greatsword out of ice and try to use it. We don't have any way of judging that yet, if ever.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    clearly the website isn't up to date on all the edits we've made on the boards. if you sift through this thread, you'll find the decision.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    You do know that they should be able to make bigger than dagger sized ice shards right? Look at Pakku when he fought Katara. So I'm still going to stand by the current wording on the website.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I do too. There is no reason why they shouldn't be able to. Not that most would want to, since larger weapons are not finesse-able, and exotic weapons are not known, and daggers are common. And as I said before, just because it doesn't happen, doesn't mean they can't, and thus doesn't mean it's not canon. There are small things we can add that are easy to extrapolate from the show that don't actually show up. I mean, they really aren't going to go through every possible form, are they?
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I just thought of something. From the Seige of the North episodes. The water benders make a circle of water that travels along the ground with movements similar to how the Swamp waterbenders propel their boats. And the water seems to act like a blade.
    What seeds would that be if any?

    Edit: Well, I've just been through the database of screenshots. Can't seem to find it. But I swear it exists and I've seen it. it's sort of like an omega symbol of water moving along the ground. and it acts as a blade. That's all I can remember.
    Last edited by Darkkwalker; 2008-05-29 at 12:57 AM.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    the only thing close to that I can think of is in her fight with paku, where she flings ice disks at him.

    EDIT: you could mean the blasts that paku uses to cut the tanks? that's probably just a high powered waterblast with pressure(slice).
    Last edited by Pirate_King; 2008-05-29 at 08:32 AM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Ah, I see then. oh creativity.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Actually, I think with a normal blast (fully powered), at 5d6 with slice can't cut through iron; not in one blast anyway. It'd have to at least do 40 pts of damage. In fact, I propose that there should be template or additional use of pressure, or something, cause Katara does the same type of attack against Hu in the swamp. Unless you're allowing blast stacking; or allowing pressure stacking some form of bypassing hardness.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    I do too. There is no reason why they shouldn't be able to. Not that most would want to, since larger weapons are not finesse-able, and exotic weapons are not known, and daggers are common. And as I said before, just because it doesn't happen, doesn't mean they can't, and thus doesn't mean it's not canon. There are small things we can add that are easy to extrapolate from the show that don't actually show up. I mean, they really aren't going to go through every possible form, are they?
    Of course not. That's the entire purpose of this system. What we have here are only seeds, not forms. The Ice Shards seed does not have a clause for making weapons because it is meant to make shards of ice. The point of having seeds is to have a huge supply of possible forms, and thus encompass all the possibilities not presented in the show. Thus, you could have the following form:

    Glacier Chain
    Water Whip + Ice Shards = DC 24

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    Silas takes a step back from the fight. Clearly the lashes from his liquid whip could not penetrate his opponent's armor. Unfortunately, it seems that he'll be unable to be merciful today.

    A waterbender may, as a standard action, make a special whip comprised of fluid water and wicked barbs of ice which protrude from the liquid. The weapon has all the statistics of a spiked chain except that it deals an additional 2d6 damage, half of which is piercing and half of which is cold damage and has the hardness and hit points of ice, rather than steel. If a waterbender were to use the glacier chain in a trip or disarm attempt, this additional damage is automatically dealt if the initial touch attack is successful. The waterbender is automatically considered to be proficient with this weapon and the glacier chain may be extended and its damage increased in the same way as a water whip.

    If a waterbender is already holding a Water Whip, it may be converted to a glacier chain as a move action, rather than a standard action.

    This form is most definitely not shown in the Avatar show, or even suggested as possible; but with the seeds we have, it is possible. That is the purpose of this system. It would be possible to make a form creating a greatsword or throwing axe or whatever from ice; but it is not a fundamental waterbender ability and therefore has no place in any of the seeds.
    Last edited by Eighth_Seraph; 2008-05-29 at 03:48 PM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    The problem with taking out the clause from Ice Shards is that there is no seed or even a mix of seeds that would outline a decent and understandable way to make a greatsword... If it's just left in Ice shards it completely clears out any problems with it. As seeds are written and taking out that weapon clause, you can't make a sword or anything other than an improvised weapon. Since an ice shard is made, not a dagger of ice, or anything that's considered a weapon, it's improvised and now the bender takes a -4 to use that weapon, and it deals damage based on size (so about 1 pt) of damage. if you make a bigger shard, it's still considered an improvised weapon, only larger. Still the same problems. And you can't use manipulate either, cause it can only make a facsimile of a weapon, and that's still an improvised weapon.

    Also on the Manipulation base seed, if someone were to make ice Javelins, which wouldn't melt immediately (ice does not melt to water in less than 6 seconds in a normal place on a normal day), could one just throw them through manipulate? Like all of them? I mean you are moving a 5ft cube of water... and thats a lot of water.
    Last edited by Ceiling009; 2008-05-29 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceiling009 View Post
    The problem with taking out the clause from Ice Shards is that there is no seed or even a mix of seeds that would outline a decent and understandable way to make a greatsword...
    there's a reason for that... because there's no decent and understandable reason to make a greatsword out of ice.

    and why make a javelin when you can just use iceshards as normal? and what kind of dm counts something as an improvised weapon when it perfectly emulates that weapon? I mean, a chair leg is a club. only a jerk of a dm is going to make you count it as an improvised weapon.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    No that's because that's the rules. Don't pull Rule 0, when there's a clear section for improvised weapons; it's much easier to just allow the original clause to stand. This is coming from someone who's rules lite, but it's the rules, some play more rules heavy or to the letter. That's the point; when working with DnD, I think it's much more fair to those who want to use the homebrew, to not have to resort to rule zero-ing some blatant things that don't need it, like this ice shards business. Who says a great sword made of ice doesn't make sense, when you have flying 6 legged bison?

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I'll have to agree with Pirate King on this one. While it is usually distasteful to leave so much up to DM approval in a class; we must recall that such is one of the foundations of our system. Putting a weapon clause into Ice Shards would clear up how exactly to handle the situation; but I don't want to do that, and I don't think that you want me to either, Ceiling. If it were up to me, any weapon made from ice would deal damage as a weapon of its appropriate type (an ice greatsword dealing 2d6 slashing, etc.), but it would take a -4 to attack as an improvised weapon, and an additional -4 if not proficient. If you want an ice greatswor, then make a form and run it by your DM. It doesn't seems to me that the waterbenders we've seen in the show have the kind of control over their element that would allow the making of a solid slashing weapon with a hilt. The water controlled by Katara and Master Pakku was always kind of...blobby if not in rapid motion, and the ice shards were never anything more than simple shards of ice, large or otherwise.

    Also, Ceiling, I never said anything about removing the actual Weapon function of Ice Shards. Just the ability to make any weapons other than a shard of ice. As we decided it earlier (I thought Meph had rewritten it...), the Weapon function allowed a waterbender to use an ice shard as a light weapon dealing 1d6 damage, half cold and half piercing. There is no penalty for improvised weapon and the bender is considered proficient. Is that satisfactory?

    As for Pakku making big ice shards; that does imply the possibility of increasing the damage dice by a few steps, from d6 to d8 to d10 to d12, maybe, with a +4 DC increase each time. Actually that does sound like a pretty good idea. What do y'all think?
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Dude, you're not even making any sense anymore. If it would clear up any confusion and problems, why not do that? What's to stop you? The way it's worded now it gives you one more thing to combine with other seeds for even more forms. What's to stop you now from making a great hammer with Ice Shards that then becomes a bull rush when combined with Wave, then becomes a golem at the end of the push? That would be a pretty sweet form (though the DC would be high...). And without that weapon clause, I can't do that.

    And yes, they do have quite the control needed. I mean, even in the North Pole (can't remember which part) when Katara fights Paku, those disks she flung at him? Perfectly smooth, and very thin on top of that. And later, Paku manages to create tens of barbs and puts Katara in that cage, without harming her at all. That takes finesse. And finally: why does the sword have to be perfect, when it can be slightly bumpy, and just be aesthetics?
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    And finally: why does the sword have to be perfect, when it can be slightly bumpy, and just be aesthetics?
    For a sword, to be wielded like a sword, and damage like a sword, has to be built like a sword. A sword made of ice would function in a different way than a sword made of metal. i.e. something small enough to not fall apart when wielded.

    Besides, the philosophies behind water bending (push-pull, flowing etc) do not back up an ability to create a balanced, solid slashing weapon. They even less support the creation of something like a hammer. it's just not water bending style.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    Dude, you're not even making any sense anymore. If it would clear up any confusion and problems, why not do that? What's to stop you? The way it's worded now it gives you one more thing to combine with other seeds for even more forms. What's to stop you now from making a great hammer with Ice Shards that then becomes a bull rush when combined with Wave, then becomes a golem at the end of the push? That would be a pretty sweet form (though the DC would be high...). And without that weapon clause, I can't do that.
    That's precisely the point. Not everything should be possible (though the form you described is possible if you just erase the bit about the hammer). You're growing dangerously close to munchkin levels, Dman; it is only in extremely rare circumstance that I am willing to sacrifice canonical accuracy in exchange for awesomeness of the system. If you think that the system would be more fun to play if the possibilities were expanded, then make a variant on the non-canon thread. That's why Meph made the thing, so that designers like you would be able to make supplements to the system that are fun to use and well-built, but do not represent the Avatar show. Anything in the central system, however, is to be true to the show as we've seen it. In this case, this means accepting the limitations that of bending abilities, despite the lameness that it may contribute to the system.

    I also have an idea to fix the issue that was brought up earlier in that benders need to burn a skill point in order to continue getting any better. What if we give each of the bending classes a free skill point each level that must be placed into the respective bending skill. Basically, any bender that doesn't multiclass gets the bending skills maxed out for free, but multiclass benders have to take it out of their own pocket during levels that they multiclass. Thoughts?

    Seriously, guys, we've been squabbling over these minor trifles for far too long. Is there anything seriously out of place with the system, something from the show that hasn't been represented, or an ability that doesn't fit in with what the benders in the show appear to be capable of?
    Last edited by Eighth_Seraph; 2008-05-29 at 11:36 PM.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    'Nother thing I just watched.
    Has anyone seen the Chibi Bending Battle short?
    Lavabending by Zuko.
    Is this Canon?
    Or is it too joke-y?
    I know old issue. But thought to bring it up.

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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    not canon. thought about bringing it up earlier, but tis silly.

    it has been suggested(by me) making the bending modifier just level + wis, and changing the DC's a bit.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    You seem to think that my suggestions are radical changes to the system. Let me count up my suggestions over the last page (all the ones you deemed "non-canon"):
    Water Whip threatens an area.
    Water Whip does not provoke AoOs.
    Water Whip uses wis to attack, since you don't actually hold it (Single Water Whip).
    Ice Shards is left as it is right now, allowing weapons to be created.

    Now, how many of those are radical changes to the system? Waterwhip is useless as Tentacle or Ice Shards can do exactly what it does now, only better, so why do you not want to change this again? I admitted that the wis to attack thing was settled a while ago (with me actually being here to see it), but it just makes sense to me. The Ice Shards thing, well, I see no reason to change it. It makes sense the way it is now, and there is absolutely nothing non-canon about it.

    As for the bending skill thing, I'd prefer either just a skill, or base it off of class level. Fewer complications. And complications are a bad thing.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Hey. I have a question would any of you guys be interested in aiding Me and few others in the Fma homewbrew that recentl came to life? I ask cause you guys made the system I want to use. Sorry to interupt!
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    There was a time when I marched across the fields of battle, crushing those who opposed my lord and master. There was a time when I stared into the heart of darkness itself and did not tremble. These days are past me now. My lord is dead by my hand and I have shunned the light that once guided me. I do not seek your pity, I only seek the vengeance that is rightfully mine.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    You seem to think that my suggestions are radical changes to the system. Let me count up my suggestions over the last page (all the ones you deemed "non-canon"):
    Water Whip threatens an area.
    Water Whip does not provoke AoOs.
    Water Whip uses wis to attack, since you don't actually hold it (Single Water Whip).
    Ice Shards is left as it is right now, allowing weapons to be created.
    don't change the argument, the only thing we've called non-cannon is the ability to make any weapon with ice shards.

    I agree with the whip threatening, it makes sense and makes it more useful (and should be carried over to the firewhip)

    I disagree with the whip not provoking AoO because of the motions involved. if you're using it right, no one should be close enough to take advantage of those attacks, anyway.

    still eh... about the wis to attack. I'll go with it if others do, but it doesn't sit right for some reason. could be entirely irrational.

    My arguments have come from the logical mechanics of it, then canon. The bending system, while it replaces magic in this setting isn't the same as magic. The elements controlled are not magically enhanced, and have the physical properties they would in the real world. A weapon made of ice would not have the same functionality as an identical weapon made of traditional materials.<---primary argument, based on what we have determined of the physics of the show, and its utter lack of magic.

    I believe the canon of the world is influenced by the nature of water, oceans and tides and what not, and the weapon creation uses you suggest do not fit those philosophies. <---secondary argument, backed by multiple martial artsy or philosophical speeches within the show.

    @ dragoon, that's awesome that you have been inspired by our system. I wish I knew more about full metal alchemist so I could participate.
    Last edited by Pirate_King; 2008-05-30 at 09:52 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #748
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    The only two reasons I wanted the wis to attack were to make it more different from Ice Shards and because I believe that the Water Whip isn't being held. If the vote is that it's not not being held (note the double negative), then no wis to attack, use primary melee stat (but it will be finesse-able).

    And I actually agree with it provoking, the motions would be kind of complex, I was just listing the various suggestions I made, this one I decided it didn't make sense.

    As for Ice Shards, that's something that we all have differing opinions on, neither one of us can claim canon support. I don't think either of those arguments you gave are accurate, especially as Frostburn has weapons made of ice, and with bending you can hold them together better. i.e., better hardness, so with this taking Earthbending Study would not be a bad thing. And since you control the element in its fullest possible methods, you could fairly easily create what is effectively a greatsword, or a spiked chain, or a sai, etc. It just wouldn't be a very good looking one until you raised the DC by quite a bit. And then you just hold it together instead of letting it chip.

    As for my greathammer-wave-golem combo, what that was was using Ice Shards to create a greathammer, then next round (finding a sudden need to move the opponent and create said golem) you hit with the hammer, morph the ice into a wave (possibly with some more needed), and then carry to enemy a ways (as far as necessary or possible), and at the end a golem pops out of the water that was the wave.

    @dragoon: Sure, I can help a bit, though I don't know if I can handle being a part of another project. I'll get back to you on it.
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    Quote Originally Posted by dman11235 View Post
    You seem to think that my suggestions are radical changes to the system.
    Er. I don't think that these changes are radical, quite the opposite, in fact. Actually, I believe that I called them "minor trifles". They are minor changes to seeds that may or may not be supported by the show.

    I'm fine with Water Whip threatening an area; though it would get pretty crazy when you have a 25 foot reach and combat reflexes. It needs playtesting. Allowing Water Whip to use Wisdom rather than Dexterity is not a good idea for two reasons. One: Too much reliance on a mental stat eliminates the MAD that we made sure to incorporate into these classes. Two: Because bending is based in martial arts, any technique is guided by bodily motions, and thus rooted in Dexterity. Even if the bender is not holding the whip, it is still her motions controlling it.
    The Ice Shards thing, well, I see no reason to change it. It makes sense the way it is now, and there is absolutely nothing non-canon about it.
    Wrong. We've never seen anyone try to make a weapon from shards and fail, true, but judging from the general style of bending we've seen; the ability is not foundational. Again I'm telling you: seeds should only encompass the foundational concepts governing the benders limitations. Everything else is to be put into forms. This argument is dead and over. Leave it alone.

    As for the bending skill thing, I'd prefer either just a skill, or base it off of class level. Fewer complications. And complications are a bad thing.
    I would also prefer to keep it as a skill; but the points brought up earlier about a bender having to make an investment beyond her class level in order to be effective struck me as true. So we just give each of the benders a nice, fluffy-sounding ability that gives them the ability to max out their bending skill for free as long as they don't multiclass. Like this.

    Sustained Training - When first taking a level in a waterberbender, you gain four ranks in the Waterbending skill. At every waterbender level thereafter, you automatically gain one additional rank in Waterbending, in addition to the waterbender's (4 + Intelligence bonus) skill ranks.

    And just to make you happy, Dman.

    Blade of Frost
    Manipulate + Freeze = DC 14 OR Ice Shards (weapon) + Manipulate = DC 19

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    A true waterbender is never unarmed. The fluidity of water gives us unique, infinite possibilities.
    By molding a relatively small quantity of water into her hands, a waterbender may craft any ordinarily wooden or metal melee weapon or ammunition she is familiar with (not necessarily proficient with) out of ice as a full-round action. Any weapon made with this seed deals normal damage for its weapon type, plus 1d4 cold damage; and one use of this seed creates 10 pieces of ammunition at a time. The base DC is for a light weapon; making a one-handed weapon increases the Waterbending DC by +2, and a two-handed weapon increases the DC by +4.If the weapon ever leaves the waterbender’s possession, it begins to melt as normal ice. Thrown weapons and ammunition can be used as normal.

    At the base DC, the weapon created by this form is rough and inefficient, imposing a -4 penalty to attack rolls. By increasing the DC by 5 points, a waterbender may remove this penalty. The waterbender may increase the quality of the weapon to a grant a +1 to attack for every further 10 points by which she increases the DC.
    If your DM approves, then go ahead and use it, but I wouldn't allow it in my own games.
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  30. - Top - End - #750
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    Default Re: [Avatar d20 Project] Bending System and Bending Classes - Thread II

    I like the sustained training thing, easily solves the dead level problem.

    can I bump my bending for people without levels in the class again? Every time I post about it, it gets ignored for some other pressing matter

    Quote Originally Posted by me, about 20 pages ago
    I have refined my bending for non-bending classes a bit more, to reflect those who have the skill but do not have the mastery of the bending class (like katara at the beginning of the series, or maybe haru from his first appearance)

    Any given bending skill is a cross-class skill if the character does not have levels in the appropriate bending class.

    [maybe make bending a class skill for other classes who benefit from a high wis]

    The skill grants the appropriate manipulate ability (including freeze/melt for water) and a 1d6 blast (though it incurs a -4 penalty to the attack roll without the appropriate bending study or exotic weapon proficiency feat).

    Features that grant bonuses or penalties, such as the child of the sun/moon affect this skill. In addition to the synergy from knowledge (bending), 5 or more ranks in any other bending skill* grants another +2 synergy bonus.

    Bending range is 30 feet, save DC 10 + 1/3 character level + the character's wisdom modifier.

    Seeds: For each level that the character adds ranks to this skill, she may learn 1 seed, the maximum seeds known being her half wisdom modifier, rounded up. (Ideally, the character would have access to a teacher or scroll to learn these seeds.)

    Should the character choose to take a level in the appropriate bending class, the seeds learned before taking the level do not stack with the class's seeds known. Effectively, the character cannot gain new seeds until the class's seeds known is greater than the seeds she knew before taking levels in the bending class.

    Example: a level 5 monk with 18 wis has been learning a bit of airbending on the side, and knows 2 seeds. She wants to expand this ability, and decides to multi-class to airbender. She gains all the other abilities of an airbender, but will not learn any more seeds until she gains 4 levels in the class Bottom line - no character will ever know more than 11 seeds without the extra seed feat.

    *I added this clause for the non-canon purposes of learning multiple bending skills, but I decided to post this here rather than the non-canon thread because the bulk of the implications are for npc benders or characters who want a bit of bending ability without multi-classing.
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